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Tsarnaev Death Penalty A Warning Follow

#1 May 15 2015 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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Tsarnaev Death Penalty A Warning To Any Other Religious Fanatics Hoping To Be Martyred

The Onion

That about sums it up for me too.

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#2 May 15 2015 at 5:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did he hope to be martyred? His defense tried to argue against him getting the death penalty.
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#3 May 15 2015 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Did he hope to be martyred? His defense tried to argue against him getting the death penalty.


He had an expert legal team.

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#4 May 15 2015 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Did he hope to be martyred? His defense tried to argue against him getting the death penalty.
I get your point, that if he wanted to die he wouldn't have given himself up. My concern isn't how he feels about this, but about the message it sends to your garden variety jihadist. Which, I think, is the point of the Onion headline.

The rest of one's life in a 4 x 10 cell, or whatever the dimensions are, with only one hour a day outside of the cell is more than torture to someone who wants to martyr themselves. But, if the Romans taught us nothing else, it is the importance of bread and circuses. The crowd must have its bloodletting.


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#5 May 15 2015 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I guess I just assume that your garden variety jihadist who wants to be a martyr plans on accomplishing it via bomb vest or driving a car of explosives through a checkpoint or causing a plane to crash or a hail of weapons fire... not after a lengthy trial and appeals process leading to a lethal injection.

I'm opposed to the death penalty on "It's an ineffective deterrent and too many judicial errors have been found" grounds rather than "We're the real monsters" grounds. So I suppose that, given my druthers, we wouldn't apply it here because we wouldn't apply it anywhere. But, since we do have it and it was applied here, I guess I'm not terribly upset about it. In any event, I think the Onion headline holds better as a smirk-able bit of wordplay than any real insight. But it's the Onion so that's okay.
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#6 May 16 2015 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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I oppose it party because it keeps the media circus going longer through the appeals etc, and is more costly than the other option.
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#7 May 16 2015 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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I am against the death penalty except against those who I disagree with politically.
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#8 May 16 2015 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I'm opposed to the death penalty on "It's an ineffective deterrent and too many judicial errors have been found" grounds rather than "We're the real monsters" grounds. So I suppose that, given my druthers, we wouldn't apply it here because we wouldn't apply it anywhere. But, since we do have it and it was applied here, I guess I'm not terribly upset about it. In any event, I think the Onion headline holds better as a smirk-able bit of wordplay than any real insight. But it's the Onion so that's okay.
Well, I'm opposed to it because in my little world it's morally wrong. I agree about the ineffective deterrent and too many errors, but I never get that far because I don't believe I have the right to take a life. Also, don't limit it to judicial error, unless you didn't mean that as judge-only error, because prosecutors and juries are very well complicit in the error game.

But in this case I believe it's also wrong-headed. I feel like I could possibly be swayed on the "wrong-headed" issue, but I'd still be standing there with the "it's wrong" issue.

Anyway, the day is passing fast and I still have to get the AC filter changed and get the lawn sprinkler system up and running.

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Hermann Goering, April 1946.
#9 May 16 2015 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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cynyck wrote:
Also, don't limit it to judicial error, unless you didn't mean that as judge-only error, because prosecutors and juries are very well complicit in the error game.


He obviously didn't mean just judges... the Judicial system is more than just judges.
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#10 May 16 2015 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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cynyck wrote:
Also, don't limit it to judicial error, unless you didn't mean that as judge-only error, because prosecutors and juries are very well complicit in the error game.

As in errors in the justice system as a whole, yes. Prosecution, law enforcement, trial... maybe I could have used a better word.
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#11 May 17 2015 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm opposed to the death penalty on "It's an ineffective deterrent and too many judicial errors have been found" grounds rather than "We're the real monsters" grounds.

As any rational should be. The level of Pollyannaish self deception required to believe that we don't occasionally murder an innocent is staggering, the "gee I feel better now that this guy is dead" feeling relative to "gee I feel better that this guy is in prison forever" isn't worth dead innocent people. I don't give a **** about killing people who aren't me, particularly, but I do find the idea that we're all going to pretend that the system we use to make that decision is flawless and just.
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#12 May 17 2015 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:
The level of Pollyannaish self deception required to believe that we don't occasionally murder an innocent is staggering

Although lately the police have gotten skilled at streamlining the process and avoiding the lengthy and costly trial phase.
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#13 May 17 2015 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've pretty much always been anti-death penalty, based on what I consider to be inevitable human bias and human error.

In the past couple of weeks I've read a few of John Douglas' books. Over the years his support for the DP has undergone some interesting changes. He started out all "rah-rah police, rah-rah DP" and has gradually come around to, "we make mistakes, and I still support the DP if and only if we're damned sure we're not making any in this case." I just don't know how we can be that sure.
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#14 May 17 2015 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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I've been curious about DP as a social issue.There seems to be a pretty solid case against it due the big three that have already been mentioned (more expensive than alternatives, ineffective at deterrence, and ending innocent lives), but it has seemed to gain much social traction. Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't know that's there much of a broad social movement against it. There's the innocence project and European drug manufacturers making some of their kill juice harder to come by, but that's about it.

Looking at gay rights, I've been trying to understand what specifically is going right there. I suppose as a contrast it, the parties involved are less sympathetic, there is less visibility, fewer occurrences (thus making it seem less relevant, and maybe some play by the prison lobby.

Edited, May 17th 2015 3:02pm by Allegory
#15 May 17 2015 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
I've pretty much always been anti-death penalty, based on what I consider to be inevitable human bias and human error.

In the past couple of weeks I've read a few of John Douglas' books. Over the years his support for the DP has undergone some interesting changes. He started out all "rah-rah police, rah-rah DP" and has gradually come around to, "we make mistakes, and I still support the DP if and only if we're damned sure we're not making any in this case." I just don't know how we can be that sure.


If they catch the guy/girl in the act, I suppose.

If in doubt, have the accused duel the accuser.
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#16 May 18 2015 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
I oppose it party because it keeps the media circus going longer through the appeals etc, and is more costly than the other option.
Really should go back a couple of years and use a coliseum with lions and other deathrow inmates. Charge to advertise, admission fees, pay-per-view.
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#17 May 18 2015 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
As a Bostonian, I would have preferred life without parole, but I don't really have an issue with him getting Death either.

Tsarnaev's actions killed 3 people & injured many others, there's overwhelming evidence that he did it, & he's going to have to suffer the consequences of his actions now.
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