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#27 Mar 19 2016 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


Imagine how much more money a company could make paying 100 skilled workers to operate widget making machines capable of building 100 widgets an hour each instead of paying 100 unskilled workers to directly make widgets at a rate of 10 widgets an hour each. You get 10x the production for the same number of employees. If the choice is "pass laws mandating that the 100 unskilled widget makers earn a living wage" versus "allow the market to force those 100 unskilled widget makers to learn how to operate a widget making machine, thus increasing the


I'm going to have to stop you right there. That's about all the time we have for this evening. We'll be sure to give you a call if we hear anything. Have a good day. ::fake smile::
#28 Mar 19 2016 at 5:27 AM Rating: Good
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Not to dismiss the hardships of those United Statesians who are losing manufacturing jobs, but I'm not certain it's all that avoidable in the short term or all that negative in the long term.

1) Ignoring for the moment any arguable long term systemic improvement from increased automation, it's at the very least a prisoner's dilemma. More automation will be able to out compete less, and there's no easy way to regulate that even if you wanted to. How much automation is too much automation? How do you keep jobs required to not be automated in the U.S.? Even if we can regulate ourselves, we have very little control over the rest of the world.

2) Isn't an argument against automation luddism or even more general? The pace might have increased, but this isn't a decade or century old problem. Specialization and efficiency gains in labor have been going on for several thousand years. The ability to "securely afford a home, education for your children, medical care, keep a working car" is largely a result of previous gains in specialization and efficiency.

Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression Johpiel because I'm see such a small part of your viewpoint here and it's largely in response to gbaji's ************ to capitalism, but I don't see much of the point in your perspective. If you wanted to ensure we don't understate the difficulty of the transition for the affected individuals, sure. But there needs to be more to it than that or else it's just a pity party.
#29 Mar 19 2016 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression Johpiel because I'm see such a small part of your viewpoint here and it's largely in response to gbaji's ************ to capitalism, but I don't see much of the point in your perspective.
Not Joph specifically, as I think he's much more rational, but in general I like to think that it's one more sign that the Left is slowly becoming the Right. Forty years from now, whatever replaces South Park will lampoon anti-robotics activists and the "They took our jerbs!" line will come up.
#30 Mar 19 2016 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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As I said in the Valve example, I'm not calling them evil and I know that if it wasn't robots it would be Chinese orphans. I just think that "Welp, no one makes buggy whips so we'll all be just fine" is shortsighted. A perpetually shrinking middle class and increased economic stratification seems to back me up on this.

In fact, that's the sort of thinking that gave us Trump as a viable candidate. I don't think that protectionism trade wars is a great policy but, if I was an out of work Republican textile plant employee in the middle of a foreclosure, it probably sounds better than "Just become a robot scientist".

Edited, Mar 19th 2016 9:51am by Jophiel
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#31 Mar 19 2016 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Maybe I'm getting the wrong impression Johpiel because I'm see such a small part of your viewpoint here and it's largely in response to gbaji's ************ to capitalism, but I don't see much of the point in your perspective.
Not Joph specifically, as I think he's much more rational, but in general I like to think that it's one more sign that the Left is slowly becoming the Right. Forty years from now, whatever replaces South Park will lampoon anti-robotics activists and the "They took our jerbs!" line will come up.

Didn't Futurama handle that?
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#32 Mar 19 2016 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe. I don't recall it, but I may have missed it.
#33 Mar 20 2016 at 2:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
We should start by eliminating philosophy degrees.


Scientist: Philosophy is a waste of time. It's just not important.
Philosopher So why is science important?
Scientist: Well, science is important because
Philosopher And that's philosophy.

Smiley: lol
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#34 Mar 20 2016 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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Nobby wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
We should start by eliminating philosophy degrees.


Scientist: Philosophy is a waste of time. It's just not important.
Philosopher So why is science important?
Scientist: Well, science is important because
Philosopher And that's philosophy.

Smiley: lol


Some the best Mathematicians were philosophers. Abstract math is no joke.
#35 Mar 20 2016 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't read all the comments, but I would like to see how much money he would save every time a bunch of jobless people group up and destroy one of those restaurants.
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#36 Mar 20 2016 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike wrote:
I haven't read all the comments, but I would like to see how much money he would save every time a bunch of jobless people group up and destroy one of those restaurants.


I'd like to take this as an opportunity to mention once again how one of the Walmart stores I worked at from 2006 to 2008 reported losses of 1.4 million dollars a year to people "forgetting" to scan things at the self checkout. It's probably a lot worse today, now that they've all but eliminated real cashiers in that store.
#37 Mar 20 2016 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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My local grocery has done away with the self scan machines and replaced them with a couple extra (manned) express lanes. I've never seen them at a Walmart but then I don't often shop at Wal-Mart.

Also my Swype keyboard just spelled Walmart two different ways. Even it doesn't know.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#38 Mar 20 2016 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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I should start stealing.

Maybe I'll steal one of Ugly's hotels and hide it in my basement.
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#39 Mar 21 2016 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike wrote:
I haven't read all the comments, but I would like to see how much money he would save every time a bunch of jobless people group up and destroy one of those restaurants.
Leave turds in slots.
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#40 Mar 22 2016 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Remember when automation was going to give us a bright future of all working ten hour weeks before relaxing in our future-homes and being tended to by our robot butlers?
I'm not sure anyone's wife would be okay with that. There's an expectation to be out of the house for a certain number of hours a week so everyone can stay sane. On the flip side, if you wanted you could probably live a 1920's quality of life and only work part time. Get rid of that car, tv, health insurance, computer+internet, various appliances, make more of your food from scratch, etc.
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#41 Mar 22 2016 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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someproteinguy wrote:
On the flip side, if you wanted you could probably live a 1920's quality of life and only work part time. Get rid of that car, tv, health insurance, computer+internet, various appliances, make more of your food from scratch, etc.

Well, sure. I could also revert to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. But the idea was that technology would make our lives better while reducing the need for labor, not that I could pick berries or shovel coal.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#42 Mar 22 2016 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I could also revert to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
I live in a city specifically to be as far away from that as possible.
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#43 Mar 22 2016 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Well, sure. I could also revert to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. But the idea was that technology would make our lives better while reducing the need for labor, not that I could pick berries or shovel coal.
Well think of it from the perspective of the person who was imagining life today 50, 70, 100 years ago. You could enjoy a better quality of life than that person dreaming about the future in the 1950's and work less hours as well. Even if you just limit yourself to say a smart phone and a microwave, and forgo paying for other modern conveniences, you're more or less living that person's dream.

Edited, Mar 22nd 2016 9:35am by someproteinguy
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#44 Mar 22 2016 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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If you own your house, sure. Food and appliances are both very cheap, rent is the main expense for low income people by far.

Perhaps technology could solve the problem of rent-seeking parasites?
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#45 Mar 22 2016 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Not until I get my flying car and robot maid, I'm not.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#46 Mar 22 2016 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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So she'll execute some kind of aerial drive by of Wall St., will she?
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Timelordwho wrote:
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#47 Mar 22 2016 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekkk wrote:
If you own your house, sure. Food and appliances are both very cheap, rent is the main expense for low income people by far.

I was thinking the same and it's shades of the whole "poor people don't know how good they have it with their color televisions and microwave ovens" argument while they struggle to pay rent and keep the utilities connected (much less acquire a doctor's bill).

The issue is that the cost of voluntary (mainly electronic) consumer goods goes down as new stuff comes on the market but housing, energy costs, transportation, food, medical and other necessities tends to go up. Being able to acquire one isn't necessarily indicative of the ability to acquire the other.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#48 Mar 22 2016 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekkk wrote:
Perhaps technology could solve the problem of rent-seeking parasites?

Pictured: Eminently affordable housing.
Screenshot
#49 Mar 22 2016 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Would you kindly solve the problem of rent-seeking parasites?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#50 Mar 22 2016 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Would you kindly solve the problem of rent-seeking parasites?
Was that a Bioshock reference? Because I'll be honest, I never finished that game. Something else came out and I got distracted.
#51 Mar 22 2016 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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ur moms a bioshock reference Smiley: mad
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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