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The Civic Lesson every American should need.Follow

#102 Sep 19 2016 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
By that logic, the best way to prevent muggings is to just teach people to stop mugging other people.

We do a much better job of teaching people that theft is wrong than we do teaching them to respect sexual boundaries. That said, the two crimes aren't especially similar in motivation or victims.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#103 Sep 19 2016 at 9:20 PM Rating: Default
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More words please
#104 Sep 19 2016 at 10:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't read any of that. I've read enough of your views on rape to last a lifetime, thanks (but no thanks).

I'm sure it's all some flavor of "date rape is when a girl has sex but later decided she really didn't want to"

Edited, Sep 19th 2016 11:09pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#105 Sep 20 2016 at 5:17 AM Rating: Good
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Well, burying your head in the sand won't make the issue go away. Ignoring half the populations opinions on the subject as "mansplaining" doesn't seem to help either. The issue affects men just as much as it affects women, and the solution to it will involve both sexes, and changes in both mentalities.

Whether or not a drunken fling is considered rape really does depend on how the woman feels after the fact. And any time the woman's actions are brought up is considered victim blaming, **** shaming, proof of rape culture, what ever phrases they want to use. You aren't going to stop drunk people from hooking up. And you can't just claim that any time drunk people have *** then the man committed rape and leave it at that, cause that doesn't solve anything. At some point decisions made by both parties need to have consequences.

That 20-25% number isn't coming from cases like Brock Turner. While some people may want you to believe it, it is not. The idea is that people deal with the consequences of their actions and choices while drunk. Not just men, but women too. And sometimes you may not remember fully those actions, but that is part of the consequences.
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#106 Sep 20 2016 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
Well, burying your head in the sand won't make the issue go away.

Happily, there's a vast spectrum of options between "burying your head in the sand" and "wasting time humoring Gbaji's notions on rape" Smiley: smile
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Ignoring half the populations opinions on the subject as "mansplaining" doesn't seem to help either.

Fortunately, that's not an issue for me.
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The issue affects men just as much as it affects women

Well, not remotely.
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Whether or not a drunken fling is considered rape really does depend on how the woman feels after the fact. And any time the woman's actions are brought up is considered victim blaming, **** shaming, proof of rape culture, what ever phrases they want to use. You aren't going to stop drunk people from hooking up. And you can't just claim that any time drunk people have *** then the man committed rape and leave it at that, cause that doesn't solve anything.

That's one hell of a strawman. Whether or not a "drunken fling" is considered rape really depends on local law enforcement which traditionally hasn't been especially aggressive about investigating and prosecuting such cases because of the difficulties involved.

Yes, trying to deflect or reassign blame because the victim was drunk or dressed wrong or walking down the wrong street is going to be called out. Even if people get all pissy and huffy and lead off with "Call me an MRA if you want but..." and then insist that they're not REALLY reassigning blame as they say "You have to accept the consequences" as though rape should be considered a legitimate consequence of having a couple drinks.

Also, I find the constant comparisons to walking down dark alleyways flashing your gold watch and diamond tiara a little unsettling, as though a woman's body is just another commodity or luxury consumer good.

Edited, Sep 20th 2016 9:10am by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#107 Sep 20 2016 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Whether or not a "drunken fling" is considered rape really depends on local law enforcement which traditionally hasn't been especially aggressive about investigating and prosecuting such cases because of the difficulties involved.


But this is the issue on college campuses. The "Blackout Drunk isn't Rape" issues that keep happening.

Jophiel wrote:
as though rape should be considered a legitimate consequence of having a couple drinks.


Not rape. Agreeing to do things you may not have agreed to if you were sober.

Jophiel wrote:
Also, I find the constant comparisons to walking down dark alleyways flashing your gold watch and diamond tiara a little unsettling, as though a woman's body is just another commodity or luxury consumer good.


But I didn't make that comparison. Stupidity of analogies aside, I'd liken it more to doing other regrettable things while drunk. Like getting tattoos, or trying drugs. Things that you may honestly have never done if sober, and may not fully remember doing, but since you chose to do after choosing to drink, really come down to a consequence of a poor decision.


Jophiel wrote:
That's one **** of a strawman.


Gotta have something the stand up in the field next to the "wear baggy clothing or I'm open to rape" and "if I say no to someone they'll get angry and assault me" strawmen out in the field already.

Edited, Sep 20th 2016 5:52pm by TirithRR
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#108 Sep 20 2016 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
And yet, people still get mugged, robbed, their cars and houses broken into, etc.

Well, I guess all laws are pointless then.
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