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#177 Jul 11 2017 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Every day it gets a little worse. From today's NYT:
Quote:
The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

No, no collusion there at all.

As someone else noted this morning (that I'm too lazy to look up and possibly attribute), if this is what the New York Times has, imagine what Bob Mueller knows. Which probably explains why he keeps staffing the investigation up. If this is "fishing", Mueller is probably going to pull a big ole sturgeon up onto the ice.
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#178 Jul 11 2017 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
NYT wrote:
The June 3, 2016, email sent to
Are emails relevant or not this week? They were the absolute most importantest thing in the world six months ago, but stories change so rapidly that even with three tvs it's tough to keep track.
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#179 Jul 11 2017 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Loving it.

I'm actually hoping this all went exactly as Jr. and Ms Veselnitskaya said it did, because that would be hilarious. Gal uses a fake story about having dirt on Hillary to get the Trump campaign's attention so she can hype her pet charitable cause; Trump campaign tentatively bites and sets up a meeting. Junior walks in and realizes within 5 minutes that they were duped and this complete rubbish she's spouting was just a ploy to talk about adoptions. Despite that news of the meeting got around to enough people to trigger the increased attention from the people who care about these kinds of things. In the end, none of this was real to begin with, just someone lying to get the ear of a politician. Except now there's reason to suspect they intended to collude with a foreign government, and based on the intent they showed people could be in serious trouble. This "meeting" which barely was a blip on anyone's radar has now become the scandal that won't die. Smiley: laugh

Aww, American politics you are so **** entertaining at times. Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Jul 11th 2017 2:23pm by someproteinguy
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#180 Jul 11 2017 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Every day it gets a little worse. From today's NYT:
Quote:
The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

No, no collusion there at all.

As someone else noted this morning (that I'm too lazy to look up and possibly attribute), if this is what the New York Times has, imagine what Bob Mueller knows. Which probably explains why he keeps staffing the investigation up. If this is "fishing", Mueller is probably going to pull a big ole sturgeon up onto the ice.


Strangely enough, NPR yesterday was offering defense (of a sort) likening it to the Clinton campaign receiving information from Ukraine on Trump campaign members dealing with Pro-Russian Ukrainian folk to be used to harm Trump during the elections.
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#181 Jul 11 2017 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Edit:
What ever they are doing to try to fix these double posts, actually just made it worse cause I'm doing it now and never did before.

Edited, Jul 11th 2017 6:03pm by TirithRR
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#182 Jul 11 2017 at 6:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I don't think "But Clinton... Smiley: cry " is going to make the difference here.
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#183 Jul 11 2017 at 11:40 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
That's certainly not the conventional wisdom.

I was referring to the gradual increase in pressure (as opposed to the depth being revealed all at once and maintaining that level of importance in public discourse).

Anecdotally, I have a sizeable circle of Trump supporting friends and family, and this may only reinforce their opinion of him, because to them he is ******* off all the right people. Trump won in part, by people underestimating his supporters, thinking surely they'd see through him. His approval rating has held nearly constant. They don't care. Any inconvenient truth is fake news. A slow trickle isn't better than no criticism at all, but it's better than a flood as it gives his team and supporters time to adjust the narrative and shape the facts as well as normalize the current criticism.

Maybe it's the bigotry of low expectations on my part.
#185 Jul 12 2017 at 7:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
His approval rating has held nearly constant.

Constantly around 40% Smiley: wink2

But I don't disagree about the supporters. Trump has a core of supporters who are True Believers no matter what and the GOP is largely beholden to them. It may only be 35% of Americans but that 35% probably makes up 70% of GOP primary voters so, if you want to stay in office, you just suck it up, put on a smile, and make excuses for Trump as the country falls apart.
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#186 Jul 12 2017 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Strangely enough, NPR yesterday was offering defense (of a sort) likening it to the Clinton campaign receiving information from Ukraine on Trump campaign members dealing with Pro-Russian Ukrainian folk to be used to harm during the elections.
NPR tweeted the Declaration of Independence and people insisted they were spreading propaganda and calling for a revolution.

Best July 4th ever.

Edited, Jul 12th 2017 9:28am by lolgaxe
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#187 Jul 12 2017 at 7:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wonder if it was "NPR" as in one of its hosts or if it was a caller/guest. The Ukraine thing is hot on the GOP Talking Points Hit Parade right now as they scramble for any sort of defense.

The thing is though -- it doesn't matter. Not at all. You don't get to break the law and then say "But that guy...". There's very real differences between the DNC (not Clinton) and Ukraine and Trump-Russia but the whole reason for bringing it up is to move the story away from "Trump's campaign did XYZ" and to instead bog it down in a pointless debate on whose side is worse. Clinton is neither the issue nor a defense in discussing the Trump collusion investigation.
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#188 Jul 12 2017 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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The "defense" was brought up by the NPR host. Under a discussion with a guest who was against Trump, but discussing whether things like info from these groups that could hurt their opponents was actually illegal. The consensus of this anti-Trump guest and the NPR host was that it wasn't, likening it to Clinton and Ukraine, but that while it may not have legal ramifications they would see if there were political ramifications to be had.
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#189 Jul 12 2017 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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This seems to be the NPR interview in question (it's the only transcript mentioning Ukraine & Clinton from the past couple weeks). It doesn't seem as though Shapiro was mentioning Ukraine as a defense personally but said that "White House allies" were bringing it up. Neither compared any legal ramification from it to Trump's situation.

Again, there's significant differences between the stories but it's ultimately irrelevant anyway because what Clinton (the DNC, actually) did or didn't do has no impact on any breaches committed by the Trump campaign.

Edited, Jul 12th 2017 10:38am by Jophiel
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#190 Jul 12 2017 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
but that while it may not have legal ramifications they would see if there were political ramifications to be had.
If nothing else it's a great answer to the "why was the government wiretapping my home?" twitter rant of a couple months back.
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#191 Jul 12 2017 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty sure that the discussion I listened to was a female host on NPR. Not Shapiro.

Also I think it was on 7/10 that I listened to it. Prior to this linked one. But I only listen on my 15 minute drives to work and back home. So I only catch snippets of these interviews.
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#192 Jul 12 2017 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dunno. There's no other similar transcripts in their archives. Guess there ain't much more to say about an interview no one heard but you and you only half remember Smiley: laugh

Edit: Searching for "Ukranian" instead of "Ukraine" has this transcript from the 10th which is Shapiro again and an NPR correspondent saying (paraphrased) "Trump supporters are using this defense..."

Edited, Jul 12th 2017 11:26am by Jophiel
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#193 Jul 12 2017 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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...

Edited, Jul 12th 2017 11:24am by Jophiel
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#194 Jul 12 2017 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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.

Edited, Jul 12th 2017 6:22pm by Allegory
#195 Jul 12 2017 at 5:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
.

That's only for doubleposts, yo.
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#196 Jul 12 2017 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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Funny story. I hit post last night and went to the failed post page, slept, then hit f5 today when I got back home. So it's actually a very long double post.
#197 Jul 12 2017 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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Funny story. I hit post last night and went to the failed post page, slept, then hit f5 today when I got back home. So it's actually a very long double post.
#198 Jul 12 2017 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Okay, I get it. Traffic slowed down so now every post is a double to make up for it.
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#199 Jul 13 2017 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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So Veselnitskaya was apparently a Hillary supporter that was working as a double agent to frame Trump Jr. and give the administration the ammunition it needed to get a FISA warrant so that Obama could spy on Trump and pass the information back to the DNC.

Not sure I have enough tinfoil to swallow that; but I may spend $1 to rent it from McDonalds if the movie got decent reviews. Would be better than watching Tangled for the 518th time at least.

Smiley: popcorn
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#200 Jul 13 2017 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I liked the "Look! Here's a photo of her at a Congressional meeting!" evidence. Because if you're smuggling in a Russian spy to trap people, what you naturally do is put them in Congressional meetings.

Of course, even if it defied all logic and was true, it still wouldn't matter. Trump Jr would have still read emails saying "Hey, this Kremlin-linked lawyer has information from the high ranks of the Russian government that they want to give you to beat Clinton" and answered "I love it" and set up a meeting. There's no way to spin that as someone else's fault that makes it okay.
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#201 Jul 13 2017 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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If there's one thing I truly enjoy it's watching the far-right connect the dots.

We'll ignore the problem that half the dots aren't real, that just ruins the fun, but you listen to someone and he'll point out that Bob's Uncle has a condo in some town and goes golfing with Carl and Fred. Carl owns several pizza chains in Mexico that were used by a drug cartel to hide contraband. They got away with it for a decade because Bob's 2nd cousin is the police chief in a major city near there and Fred's sister was part of the border patrol where they got the stuff into the states. Also the sister's husband's brother was the state representative for the district where the border was, and everything only got exposed because his nephew was caught trying to buy liquor with a fake I.D. while in Mexico in high-school and his bail money was marked as an miscellaneous expense when his Uncle submitted his request for travel reimbursement from the state after being down south on official business. That all got covered up quickly though, because Carl's wife is a good lawyer, but the loss of the drug money is totally why the sister's husband's brother didn't win reelection that year. Smiley: tinfoilhat

With the left you just wind up in a conversation where someone is mildly irritated that the same few stores are in almost every mall, then you point out they're all owned by the same company and you're picking their jaw up off the floor. Smiley: oyvey

Edited, Jul 13th 2017 1:41pm by someproteinguy
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