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FINAL FANTASY XIV ONLINE!?! WHAAAT!? (was fjob=2)Follow

#1 Jun 02 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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Ha! I posted this in the wrong forum in the excitement/worry =P but discuss anyway if you like lmao.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 3:41pm by Diamondis
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#2 Jun 02 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe they'll get RDM right this time.

To be honest, though, I actually hope they run on larger numbers than what we see in XI. It leads to eventual limitations on what we see in gear or truly differentiating the classes. And while it wouldn't immunize us of the same in XIV, we'd have far greater room for variety.
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#3 Jun 02 2009 at 12:45 PM Rating: Default
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No real point in sticking with set jobs/classes anyway. Why not just allow you to develop skills/stats directly, without constraint of a preset "class".

Jobs are a dated concept IMO, especially for an MMO. Let players develop their character according to how they play it.
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#5 Jun 02 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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#6SunriderRagnarok, Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 1:48 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I was thinking the same thing.
#7 Jun 02 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Default
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Let players develop their character according to how they play it.


Sorta like 12s system, can essentially use any weapon and cast any spell for person. Just put limits on how many you can have of each so that everyone cant have everything.
#8 Jun 02 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
No real point in sticking with set jobs/classes anyway. Why not just allow you to develop skills/stats directly, without constraint of a preset "class".

Jobs are a dated concept IMO, especially for an MMO. Let players develop their character according to how they play it.


I like the job system. But it would be nice if they allowed for some customization, something like what you get in Diablo 2, and not just something like our merit system where you've got 1-2 cookie cutter ways to do things.

Thing with Diablo 2 was that you were not able to move skill allocations around once you placed them, but in return, Diablo 2 characters were also a lot easier to build up to a decent level/quest progress so you were free to try out a number of builds. With a game like FFXI, and FF14 if it's any similar, I don't think most people would be keen on having to redo levels, quests, missions, and all that **** over and over again for each build they want to try >_>
#9 Jun 02 2009 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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If you abandon the job concept for skill trees, you kinda kill what makes this a FF, I think. While I can agree with the logic behind it, I'd rather not create Merits 2.0 where we only wind up with select acceptable builds, either.

It ultimately boils down to a job's variety not being watered down to pander to balance. Looking past RDM, we can point at DRK and see how little they use their magic or have reason to. Pet jobs get the short end of the stick for varying reasons. Blood tanking is still archaic, and maybe SE learned a lesson with Utsusemi.

Going on about faults is easy to do, but I'm just skeptical about SE learning from XI and preventing some of the problems we've faced here in terms of actual content and customer service.
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#10 Jun 02 2009 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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What do you mean by "get RDM right"? RDM is a great job, one of the best and I think it's been "right" for about 5 years.

If there were no jobs there would be no diversity. Everyone would be the optimal "spec" for whatever role they play. It would be boring.
#11RaenRyong, Posted: Jun 02 2009 at 2:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If they kill RDM solo I will cry :(
#12 Jun 02 2009 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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I don't think it'd kill the spirit of FF at all. I know people hate when these games are brought up, but when I think of a game without defined jobs, I think of FFs VII-VIII, or more specifically, the Materia and Junction systems associated. Other examples include FFX and FFXII. The characters had semi recognizable abilities hearkening back to classic installments, but the AP and License concepts allowed them to branch out.

Ideally, in this sort of play, you can't immediately /check a character and say "Oh, he's a RDM, he better be ready with my Refresh/Haste/Cure!" You can't instantly see a PLD and pass him up because you decide you want a NIN's shadows(which, as Seriha said, is something I hope S-E learned from), or instantly recognize a THF and pass him up for perceived lack of damage. It's possible, over time, to identify by armor, but if(like this game), multiple armor types look alike, that's not set in stone. Players will then have to discern others on a less broad basis.

When you don't immediately have a frame to put someone in(the frame being a specific class), it becomes less about what they are and more about what they can do.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 3:25pm by SunriderRagnarok
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#13 Jun 02 2009 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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#14 Jun 02 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, at its core, I don't want to have 20 alts to play 20 jobs. Or more if specs get too diverse and options for reassigning become too much of a hassle. There's also the consideration of time sinks and what we know of SE, as getting one Ridill is bad enough, let alone 5 for your account if that's how things pan out.

Really, I want a variety of abilities. I've long since criticized that we, as players, do very little to interact with the game. Our play is more reactive than proactive as we watch HP bars diminish to Cure, hit a WS macro when TP hits 100%, and not really care about anything else in between as play is more 6v1 than 6v6+. I know that's a bit generalized and doesn't 100% apply to RDM, but to stress the emphasis of RDM's failure as a unique class, you only need to look as far as the melee debate. A job does not live up to concept when people look at you googly-eyed when you try to exercise that.

Content is relative and I know some love the backline, but their will isn't mine or anyone else. I value options that aren't compromised right off the bat. You can't deny that's not the case for us with a lack of traits, lower skill levels, and even a shortage of JAs. We get a bit on the spell side to compensate, but they're not particularly unique when you figure that other melee should be getting Haste, won't be stuck in casting animations, and so on.
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#15 Jun 02 2009 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Isiolia wrote:
No real point in sticking with set jobs/classes anyway. Why not just allow you to develop skills/stats directly, without constraint of a preset "class".

Jobs are a dated concept IMO, especially for an MMO. Let players develop their character according to how they play it.

I like set jobs.

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#16 Jun 02 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Esoa wrote:
What do you mean by "get RDM right"? RDM is a great job, one of the best and I think it's been "right" for about 5 years.

If there were no jobs there would be no diversity. Everyone would be the optimal "spec" for whatever role they play. It would be boring.


I believe it's more of RDM, and most jobs in general, having choices in role instead of pigeonholing.

But that's more of a playerbase thing.
#17 Jun 03 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the jobs. I think what the ppl that "dont like jobs" really want is to be able to do more then just what that jobs name suggest. Like a whm that CAN melee and do decent dmg and does not have to sit in the backline. So i guess take the "backline and frontline" titles and u got a winner. I think WoW has a system like that where the healers still melee. I think that would solve most of the problems with jobs atleast.

And i for one want to keep things like ridills hard to come by. Why should everyone have a ridill? One thing i like about RPGs is that they are not easy and it takes time to get things. Unlike some other games, FFXI is not easy...even though they seem to be changing that.
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#18 Jun 03 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Personally, I prefer class(job)-based systems over skill based systems, but I have arguments all the time about people who hate them (Especially World of Darkness vs D&D arguments)

I would play XIV regardless, and would simply try my best to reproduce the classes I used to like, with their pros and cons, instead of creating the typical flawless "heavy armor wearing fighter-mage hybrid" everyone tends to create when you don't limit them.
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#19 Jun 03 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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Right now I'm going to guess that they're moving to a more free form system like most of the recent FFs have been using.
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#20 Jun 03 2009 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would like it if we could spend points on our stats at a level up.

Like, you have 6 points, and you can spend them on HP or MP.

And you have different points to spend on STR, INT, DEX, etc.

Just so long as I get to punch stuff, though, I will be happy.
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#21 Jun 03 2009 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
I like jobs personally, gives variety. I would like it if a) you can job change again, and b) some sort of variety, whether this is the sub-class system or some sort of system to use individual abilities of other jobs you have leveled.
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#22 Jun 03 2009 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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I'm fine with jobs. Just make them better. In FFXI they rely on subjobs too much. Sub jobs need to go. Perhaps a combination of skill trees with job systems would be a alternative. But I simply hated having to level all my subs to level my main. But as they said at the conference. They've already said the job system is slightly different. Therefore the job system is somehow still there but its not the same as in FFXI.
#23 Jun 03 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Default
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I like set jobs as well as far as they will do it different, so we wont get OP jobs or best jobs for a job so other jobs get obsolete.

I remember when 80% of the DPS polulation was RNG, lets not go there again.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 5:33pm by Broophy
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#24 Jun 03 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Really, more than anything they need to make sure everything is useful. And that fights are balanced with everyone in mind. Nothing ****** me off more than having a hard time getting sh*t done b/c I don't happen to have one of the 'ideal' jobs for a given event. I want to be able to pick a job that looks fun and interesting to me and be able to use it.

Its gotten better from "ZOMG YOU MUST HAVE SMN FOR PROMY!!" days, but there are still plenty of events that really make it hard for you to do if don't happen to have one of the 'special' jobs for it leveled *cough*ACP11*cough*

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 4:38pm by cynicalsaint
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#25 Jun 03 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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"We will have the same type of story-telling and expand on in-game systems. The player will be able to grow and develop in a natural way. It shouldn't put a lot of weight on the player itself, and through this, we'll develop the job system into something quite different."
So do you think that means we'll see a more ffx style job system where we can customize our characters taking iconic traights from various ff jobs or will it be a more traditional job system done in a new way? Its a very cryptic remark from them.
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#26 Jun 04 2009 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
I like set jobs myself. The biggest problem I see with skill sets is that unless you're able to change them easily then you're going to be stuck with the WoW style of one job for your char and thats it. As much as I like being a beastmaster or summoner, I don't always want to be a beastmaster or a summoner.

I can just see it now. You didn't level <Insert skill tree> here for <Insert job idea here> GTFO Noob!! I'm not inviting you to my event/party/shell.
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#27 Jun 04 2009 at 5:08 AM Rating: Good
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Isiolia wrote:
No real point in sticking with set jobs/classes anyway. Why not just allow you to develop skills/stats directly, without constraint of a preset "class".

Jobs are a dated concept IMO, especially for an MMO. Let players develop their character according to how they play it.


It sounds nice in theory but needing balance in an mmorpg always constricts these types of concepts
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