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Subjobs in FFXIV? Your opinions.Follow

#52 Jun 03 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Decent
2,080 posts
In FFXIV Ninja subs you!
When I'm good they never remember,
When I'm bad they never forget
#53 Jun 03 2009 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
21,739 posts
There is nothing wrong with /NIN in FFXI right now. Most good DDs don't use it anyway, and the ones that do are using it for Dual Wield. It does have an application though. As stupid as SE can be, they made Utsusemi: Ni level 37 for a reason. There are some fights that just cannot be reasonably done without /NIN for your tank, and there are some fights where there's little reason at all to use it. Even after reading the anti-/NIN ********** I still can't fathom why people are so upset about it.
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#54 Jun 03 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
1,649 posts
Alrefie wrote:
Unless SE balances jobs to perfection not having subjobs will shun jobs worse then some are in XI.

Would you take a RDM with no sub over a WHM with no sub as a healer? No, but if RDM subs WHM they can be a decent healer and enfeeble. Not as perfect as a WHM but still can get the job done in a large amount of situations.

So please SE. Do not remove subjobs.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 10:20am by Alrefie

That has to be the dumbest example ever given.

OMG! WHM being invited over RDM!? Blasphemous!

Newsflash: That's how it's supposed to be, except that when you sub WHM the RDM becomes greater than the WHM due to having all nessecary tools that the WHM has but then having Refresh/Convert.

That should be happening, and I actually WANT it to happen, but it is because of subjobs (and partially SE's ignorance of the pigeonholing situation) that RDM gets invited over WHM in FFXI.

Now thinking about it, Subjobs was a poor plan in concept for this very reason. They take away job uniqueness and instead puts all jobs (mages especially) into a feud. It's just like a skill tree, except you have to move away from your main job to level jobs you do not want to level.

Take away the subjob system, implement a "merit point" system similar to FFXI but accessible at the early levels. Most happily though I prefer a sphere grid. I want my job uniqueness back, and I most definitely want players to analyze jobs and what they can do with their own tools instead of thinking about what subjob will allow them to own the situation.

EDIT: Oh, and a WHM can enfeeble too, so dunno where you were going saying that RDM enfeebling was a unique thing.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 11:16am by CarthRDM

#55 Jun 03 2009 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
1,446 posts
While I like the Job/SubJob idea for versatility, I am willing to sacrifice that SO LONG AS we only need to create one character and can change jobs at will as we can now in XI. I don't want to have 20 characters to play 20 different jobs, alts are no fun!
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Windurst Rank 10
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#56 Jun 03 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
11,143 posts
I'll keep the job system so I'm not looking at 20 alts, but I can live without subs and would prefer them absent in place of jobs truly getting some tricks and distinction.

Skill trees or stat selection should be avoided for the sake of cookie cutters. The only real exception to making a 'build' would be the gear you wind up acquiring for it. Wanna be a DRK that nukes as hard as a BLM with their available spells? It should be able to happen without people going lolgimp. A little balance can be sacrificed for the sake of job identity, as some would call everyone being broken in some way a balance of its own.
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#57 Jun 03 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
1,159 posts
I loved subjobs in FFXI. I would hate to see it go but I have the same issues with it as other people do. Being forced into certain job/subjob combinations is extremely counterproductive given the huge customization of the system and I feel is the biggest problem the system has. I haven't played FFXI in a while but from what I've read for some time DD were being forced to sub Ninja...which is totally ridiculous.

The other problem of being forced to level the sub of a sub and so forth, while at times can be annoying, isn't such a big problem for me. Also, if the first problem is fixed this wouldn't be a problem at all. If it were viable to play a job/subjob combination like whm/brd you wouldn't need to level blm at all. The free game Runes of Magic has an interesting subjob system that allows any combination of job/subjob as all combinations have unique abilities that are useful.
#58 Jun 03 2009 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
4,548 posts
They should do away with leveling altogether. Create some sort of merit point type system and base everything on progression.
#59 Jun 03 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
342 posts
I love the subjobs in FFXI and the whole job system separates it from the other MMOs out there. However, subjobs seem a little old fashioned these days and I think SE will improve upon the idea in FF14.

Look at BLU spell selection with its limited spell points and slots. This could be done for all jobs. As long as you have to level other jobs and earn the abilities you can use I think it makes a great game mechanic for one job to borrow abilities from another. I would not like a bunch of WAR only abilities you can choose from as WAR or BLM only abilities for use as BLM.

If you think a skill tree lets your character be unique as a flower, think again. If a WAR can select certain abilities from a list, expect your party leader to demand skill X, Y and Z before you can join. Certain abilities are good for leveling and others for situations like HNM fights so you'll mostly be customizing your job for most efficient xp grinding. (Don't expect any MMO to be grind-free btw.)

I'm happy with how FFXI is today which is why I'm still playing so I'm looking forward to more of the same with new quests and better graphics.
#60 Jun 03 2009 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
617 posts
I think FFXIV should either implement a FFV/FFT-style system, wherein you have a "subjob" that isn't an actual subjob, or that it should just flat out NOT have subjobs at all, and you're only your main job.

Agreed 100%.
#61 Jun 03 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
2,614 posts
The defining feature of FF's job system isn't just the ability to change jobs at will, it's the ability to combine attributes of various jobs for crazy and interesting results. I think this is an absolutely essential feature.

That doesn't mean it has to be done through FFXI's main/halved sub system. I'm sure SE is using a different system if only to change things up a little.

Still, I thought there was a lot of charm to the subjob system. As much as it annoyed me to change jobs early on when I just wanted to level my main, it got me playing jobs I never would have tried otherwise, and which I eventually enjoyed. I'm sure it made us all better players too, forcing us to get a handle on the jobs being played by other people in the party.

Look at BLU spell selection with its limited spell points and slots. This could be done for all jobs. As long as you have to level other jobs and earn the abilities you can use I think it makes a great game mechanic for one job to borrow abilities from another. I would not like a bunch of WAR only abilities you can choose from as WAR or BLM only abilities for use as BLM.

This is exactly the sort of system I'd like to see. Maybe if people are so adamant against having to level other jobs, it could be tweaked so that there are a bunch of equippable abilities/attributes unlocked by your main job that you can use instead. That way, you could mix up your main job's abilities and other jobs however you like.

Of course, people would still find the one most efficient combination for each job and everybody would be expected to use it, but that's inevitable. And with a lot of customization, at least there would probably be more solid combinations to choose from.
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