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Bring end game PvPFollow

#52 Jun 03 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Grimluck wrote:
The problem is that balancing classes to fit specific roles in PvE, often imbalances PvP and vice versa. Having it so that all classes are balanced in PvP and PvE is almost impossible.

Abilities can be change in ways that only affect pvp. In WoW several abilities that disable enemies for extended periods of time, such as turning them into a sheep for 30 seconds, have had that time reduced in pvp to make them more balanced.
#53 Jun 03 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm generally pretty unlucky so I'll pick that option. My worst experiences were in AoC... But maybe the system was just set up so poorly that it encouraged regular ganking.


Ok - back to live blog.
AoC was a terrible example of mmo gaming period. It didn't do anything right.
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#54 Jun 03 2009 at 5:10 PM Rating: Good
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FFXI has never meant to be a PVP game, and neither is FFXIV.
#55 Jun 03 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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WoW PvP has some problems, but it is also probably the best MMORPG PvP system in existence.


Warhammer, EVE, and Guild Wars. All of these games are built around PvP. It is part their main focus. Because of this, their pvp systems are not only way more advanced than WoW's, but definitely more refined.
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#56 Jun 03 2009 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Squallido wrote:
FFXI has never meant to be a PVP game, and neither is FFXIV.


Based on what? We know almost nothing about FFXIV.
#57 Jun 03 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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i want pvp but i do not wish it to interfere with normal grinding or doing quest.simple way is to make a few channels/realm in 1 server.some channel is pvp-enable and some realm is only pve-enable.
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#58 Jun 03 2009 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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If FFXI had a PvP Arena and Zone Dedicated to Open PvP, with all of its PvE content it would have 10 times the subscribers it would have now. (I've said this for 3+ years.)

All I ask for XIV is Arena or Open PvP with the same quality PvE and then build and add new pvp/pve off that. If XIV's Pve Quality stays the same which imo is better than Wow's PvE, it could be a huge competitor in the mmorpg industry. I'm not going to say wow killer but we'll see. Unlike Vanguard, Warhammer, Darkfall,(Which were all called potential wow killers) square enix knows what they are doing. Lets not forget that "RPG" is in MMORPG and SE has been doing RPG's longer then most mmorpg companies that exist today.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 11:19pm by Xraidead
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#59 Jun 03 2009 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, I finally created an Alla account, after playing FFXI for 5 years then switching to WOW for a year. ****, I couldn't even have the name Shazaam, and I have had it on online games for years.
All because of a 'there is no 5th star' member showing that he had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. Allegory, the finger here is pointed at you. (and your lvl 60ish char with one job...)

Here is what you said:


Quote:
1. Level in your own territory or near allies. It's highly unlikely that you'll get gank by a Windurst person if you level in West Ronfaure.


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Everyone in FFXI leveled in their own area, it was **** near impossible to reach another area's zone at the beginning. What people are afraid of is high levels sitting in a low level zone just killing them off. And yeah, while that seems 'impossible' in wow due to natural barriers (**** try getting to the Night Elf starting zone and just hanging around killing dudes'... in the traditional FFXI experience, a level 20 'windurst person' just hanging around ronfaure and being able to easily just stay there is not a hard thing to imagine. Play FFXI more to make comments on it.

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2. Level with friends. You're less likely to get ganked in a group than you are alone. In addition you'll probably have more fun playing the game with other people than by yourself.

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Again, in FFXI it is unimaginable (at least for the old schoolers like myself) to venture anywhere without at least 5 friends in a group. If what you are implying is that it would be so much better if there was another group of 5 from an opposing faction camping the same area when we got there, that would suck. Either group would kill the other as soon as they noticed their camped exp mobs being taken by another group, leading to a grief fest of one group dying, then the other, reraising, etc... until both groups lost members and interest.

You must play alot of wow or other solo intensive games to suggest to the Final Fantasy online community that they should "Level with friends".
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3. Don't have tunnel vision. Keep an eye out for enemies and look around you while you play. You should be doing this anyway to make sure a mob doesn't spawn next to you in a fight and aggro.

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Again, a misunderstanding of the traditional Final Fantasy online playerbase. "Keep an eye out for enemies and look around while you play"... Who can even get to the valkrum dunes without knowing this basic tenet of the game?
It was easy to do in wow, not very easy to do in a battleground, but still, awareness of your surroundings is something every final fantasy online player has learned from day one, when another rabbit ran up while you were still wondering if you should have taken warrior over whitemage for your level one.
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4. If you do get ganked don't respawn immediately next to the ganker. No one can camp you; you can only volunteer to be camped. You volunteer to be camped by respawning as quickly as possible right next to the ganker or in the same area you were killed. If you died because mobs were spawning too fast around you would you go back to the same area and fight there again?

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Fair enough, if they do that in almost any other game the respawning victim is fair game. But this is FINAL FANTASY ONLINE... People camp mobs for 24 hours at a time (A THING THAT MUST CHANGE IN 14)... so say you die against an opposing faction while camping a peacock necklace... you should just log out for the next week? Or worse, you get killed along with your whole group of 18 next to a Behemoth trying to camp KB? Your linkshell just doesn't play for the next week?

You may have a plethora of experience in PVP games, but you don't have much Final Fantasy online experience. Please keep your 'There is no 5th star' comments to things relevant to this game.

Want pvp in FF? so do I, but I would never want a free for all in a game that takes so much dedication and skill to play. If I wanted that I would go play Halo. In final fantasy I want a story, the traditional elements, and the feeling that strategy and hard work paved my way.

I personally love the open RVR areas in Warhammer, and that would be a great benefit to FF if implemented in a similar way. I also love the battlegrounds in WOW.

What I hate about both these games is when the PVP aspect of the games affects the PVE aspects of the games. In both Warhammer and Warcraft this is understandable, one started as a PVP RTS game, the other similarily as a PVP board game.

Final Fantasy is THE distiguishing PVE RPG. It has revolutionized the genre countless times. This is what the core Final Fantasy player wants. (and it is a large playerbase, with the best selling videogames and game series of all time). PvP would be great if it was a side event, but it would not be viable as the over all basis of the game.

FFXI focused on the PVE element, and arguably has the greatest PVE storyline and implementation of all the MMORPGS ( the grind and flaws and camping ignored).

You want PVP focused gaming, well play Warhammer or Age of Conan... I think we all know how long their playerbase paid attention. It's just not a very immersible or deep atmosphere. The numbers there speak for themselves.

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 4:21am by Shazaamemt
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#60 Jun 03 2009 at 11:01 PM Rating: Decent
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"/pvp on" <> "/pvp off"
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#61 Jun 03 2009 at 11:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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That still creates the whole 'X job is nerfed, because Y job cannot kill it in PVP balance' issue.

Rather keep PVP to specific zones (like RVR in WAR) or Ballista: where PVP rules on weaponskills, spells, etc are separate from the PVE elements.

Seriously, unless they release Orc, Quadav, Yagudo, etc as a playable race.. does anyone even see this as being anything close to a PVP type MMO?

This whole thread is ridiculous.

Yes, we want PvP, but SE is not going to ruin what the developers of FFIII(US) (arguably the best FF made) have called the 'Greatest Final Fantasy' by pandering to an audience base that has not even embraced the company's prior endeavors.

IT'S FINAL FANTASY FOR F's SAKE, EITHER LEARN WHAT FINAL FANTASY IS OR GTFO.

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#62 Jun 03 2009 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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"Friendly" PvP without factions is alright, I think. Maybe they could add a "duel" feature where you lose/gain XP when you lose/win a fight? I think that'd be neat. I agree with previous posts that said they'd have to seperate mechanics. FFXI classes like WHM would get nailed in a PvP environment. This isn't a big problem, as you can equip gear to go around that, but you'll always get hardcore PvPer WHMs going "Wahh, WHM is so underpowered" and so on.
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#63 Jun 03 2009 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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1. Level in your own territory or near allies. It's highly unlikely that you'll get gank by a Windurst person if you level in West Ronfaure.
I just found this. I don't know if this was actually said, but I'll address it anyways. Windurst isn't mid-war with San d'Oria. Why should you be able to engage in combat, openly, with one of your allies? This is akin to Ironforge attacking Stormwind, or whatever it's called. So many of the story mechanics in FFXI would have been *ruined* by people wanting open PvP like stated above. The cities are all joined together.
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I will wake up at six a.m. again.
and I will find my way to the front door
like a soldier crawling through the smoking carnage.
smoldering bodies at my feet,
I'd love to stick around, but I've got someone to meet.
and I will put my best foot forward.
and I'll thank god I made it out of there
on the day when my new friends come.
#64 Jun 04 2009 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
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Here's my opinion on PvP.

They need to add it, in some form or another, but it does not need to be the focus of the game, or anywhere close to it, like so many other MMORPG's are. It simply needs to be a past-time or side-quest sort of thing. That being said, we need a good way for people to experience PvP because there is a very large demand for it. My idea's are this:

We need a 1v1 or 2v2 or small team type PvP, I have always thought it would be cool if it took place in a Arena type area. Perhaps in one of the major towns, or hub-city, there would be a Arena where people could have duals, and others could watch. I think that would be very entertaining. It wouldn't be a bloody massacre type thing, but a sporting event between two comrades to test their skills against eachother.

I also think it would be fun if there was an event similar to ballista from FFXI, but with some revamping and reworking to it. A more Large scale/every once in awhile PvP event. It could be fun, but the first option I mentioned I think is more needed.

That's my take on the issue. PvP is needed and can be fun, but it should just be a sidetrack, not a main focus.
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#65 Jun 04 2009 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, as I think back on my FFXI experiences, most of the excitement came from being in extremely dangerous PVE zones, and I liked it! I felt a part of things. It just would've been a massive frustration if I was dealing with XXSquallhunterX trying to kill me. SE may not have said explicitly what they want to do, but they're focus with all FF games has been on immersion. FFA PVP, and any real focus on PVP just wouldn't work in any PVE zones. I should be worried about the goblin bomber looking my way, not the guy in hiding behind me, waiting for me to take the boss I've camped for three hours down to 1% health before ganking me.
#66 Jun 04 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Default
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Here's my opinion on PvP.

We need a 1v1 or 2v2 or small team type PvP, I have always thought it would be cool if it took place in a Arena type area. Perhaps in one of the major towns, or hub-city, there would be a Arena where people could have duals, and others could watch. I think that would be very entertaining. It wouldn't be a bloody massacre type thing, but a sporting event between two comrades to test their skills against eachother.


I hate to break this to you but as it seems now SE is going to use the same system for serverlocation and cross-regional servers as they have done with FFXI, meaning your ping/latency will skyrocket compare to the JP player you will meet in the Arena, since servers are located in Japan. We all remember the ping advantage the JP players had ( and still have ) when claiming a HNM pop, and all EU and NA player were crying over this issue. So TBH forget about intense PVP that your latency will have an impact on.

Quote:
That's my take on the issue. PvP is needed and can be fun, but it should just be a sidetrack, not a main focus.


PVP is not really needed if there is so much PVE and other NON PVP content that you will never run dry of doing stuff. If you check FFXI you can do so many things that PVP doesnt even come to your mind.
#67 Jun 04 2009 at 6:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Also the most important thing all PVP fanboys forget is this >> 20 CLASSES.
I will laugh my fu*king *** off if SE can balance 20 classes, not including if you will have subjobs or not in Arena.

Blizzard with all its might with trillion of dollars at its disposal could not do it, even today after 5 years of release.

Again people are striving to copy WOW which I have stated over and over again its a fu*king dangerous path for FF14 to take and will destroy FF14, mark my words.

So please people, stop dreaming about FF14 PVP.



Edited, Jun 4th 2009 10:25am by Maldavian
#68 Jun 04 2009 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Focus PvE, leave PvP to western MMO's.


Agree 1000%

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 10:32am by Maldavian
#69 Jun 04 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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GuardianFaith wrote:
I agree, it really needs PvP and a faster pace.


Considering servers will be in Japan, and 20 classes to balance in PVP.. keep dreaming my friend.

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 10:37am by Maldavian
#70 Jun 04 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Koogs wrote:
Warhammer, EVE, and Guild Wars. All of these games are built around PvP. It is part their main focus. Because of this, their pvp systems are not only way more advanced than WoW's, but definitely more refined.

That's not even a comparable statement. You haven't qualified refined or advanced. You might as well have just said "better and good."

I've played Guild Wars and Warhammer. They're both good, but WoW arena is the height of competitive MMORPG pvp.
Shazaamemt wrote:
All because of a 'there is no 5th star' member showing that he had absolutely no idea what he was talking about. Allegory, the finger here is pointed at you. (and your lvl 60ish char with one job...)

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Anyone who has played an open pvp game for more than a month would agree with me.
Shazaamemt wrote:
Everyone in FFXI leveled in their own area, it was **** near impossible to reach another area's zone at the beginning. What people are afraid of is high levels sitting in a low level zone just killing them off. And yeah, while that seems 'impossible' in wow due to natural barriers (**** try getting to the Night Elf starting zone and just hanging around killing dudes'... in the traditional FFXI experience, a level 20 'windurst person' just hanging around ronfaure and being able to easily just stay there is not a hard thing to imagine. Play FFXI more to make comments on it.

It doesn't have to be impossible. It just has to be inconvenient. If you stay in your own territory or in less populated areas then you are significantly less likely to be ganked.

1. If you level in your own territory the ganker is less likely to select you as a target, because there are more options.
2. If you level in your own territory you have more allies around to help you take out the ganker. Safety in numbers.
3. If you level in your own territory you are more likely to have high level allied characters around to help fend off the ganker.
4. Your territory is not enemy territory. A player has to go out of his way to gank you there. That means he can't be near his own city to handle auctions or group with his allies to take on a hard encounter, or do whatever else he could do in his home territory. It's a hassle for him to get over to you.

I can't believe you don't understand how this makes perfect sense. In a war between Windurst and San d'Oria would it be safer for a Windurst citizen to be in West Ronfaure or East Sarutabaruta? It's really very obvious.

I didn't make the point before but you can also easily avoid ganks by leveling in less popular areas.
Shazaamemt wrote:
Again, in FFXI it is unimaginable (at least for the old schoolers like myself) to venture anywhere without at least 5 friends in a group. If what you are implying is that it would be so much better if there was another group of 5 from an opposing faction camping the same area when we got there, that would suck. Either group would kill the other as soon as they noticed their camped exp mobs being taken by another group, leading to a grief fest of one group dying, then the other, reraising, etc... until both groups lost members and interest.

You must play alot of wow or other solo intensive games to suggest to the Final Fantasy online community that they should "Level with friends".

You're not getting it. I'm not talking about FFXI. FFXI doesn't have open pvp so obviously nothing about avoiding ganks matters in the context of FFXI. I'm talking about pvp games in general, to show how open pvp in FFXIV wouldn't be the gankfest carebears irrational assume it will be. I'm using examples involving FFXI because most posters here are more familiar with those zones and concepts than they are with Warhammer, WoW, Lotro, or many other games.

FFXIV has been said to be more casual friendly. Usually this implies more solo content. If characters are capable of completing more content solo, then they can decrease their chance of being ganked by grouping with more allies. The same idea actually applies to full parties, if you simply replace individual characters with parties. It's a lot safer for two parties to stick together than it is for them to be off alone, to possibly be ganked by a roaming party.
Shazaamemt wrote:
Again, a misunderstanding of the traditional Final Fantasy online playerbase. "Keep an eye out for enemies and look around while you play"... Who can even get to the valkrum dunes without knowing this basic tenet of the game?
It was easy to do in wow, not very easy to do in a battleground, but still, awareness of your surroundings is something every final fantasy online player has learned from day one, when another rabbit ran up while you were still wondering if you should have taken warrior over whitemage for your level one.

Lots of player still have that problem. You're also not making any sense here. My argument doesn't depend on whether FFXI players are currently keep watch or not keeping watch. My argument is that keeping watch prevent ganks. You haven't contested that at all. You've made a non sequitur.
Shazaamemt wrote:
Fair enough, if they do that in almost any other game the respawning victim is fair game. But this is FINAL FANTASY ONLINE... People camp mobs for 24 hours at a time (A THING THAT MUST CHANGE IN 14)... so say you die against an opposing faction while camping a peacock necklace... you should just log out for the next week? Or worse, you get killed along with your whole group of 18 next to a Behemoth trying to camp KB? Your linkshell just doesn't play for the next week?

Those people are trying to camp a rare and valuable item. I can understand someone camping 24 hours for one of the best items in the game. It's silly to think that same person would camp a random level 5 character for 24 hours.
Shazaamemt wrote:
Please keep your 'There is no 5th star' comments to things relevant to this game.

You've got a lot of hostile resentment there. Not once have I said or even implied that my post count somehow matters. It doesn't. You're also under the false impression that I'm talking about FFXI. I'm talking about open pvp. Why would I talk about how ganking can be avoided in FFXI when it's impossible to gank a character?

People were making inaccurate comments about ganking in pvp and I was correcting them. That is the majority of what I have said.

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 10:21am by Allegory
#71 Jun 04 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I also think final fantasy should remain a predominantly PVE game but a little player-optional PVP would be welcome too (not open PVP). It just adds to variety of the game, because even if there is a lot of great PVE content, it could be fun to just try something completely different.

I don't really understand the "Balancing 20 jobs for PVP" argument. It's been mentioned before, but do you really expect a white mage to be able to stand up to some heavy melee class? Maybe with some skills or tricks, but generally I wouldn't think so--because that's not the white mage's role. PVP doesn't always have to be about a single class versus another class, it's expected some may have an advantage over others. To me, it just says that there should be PVP between parties, so that there is some strategy and planning involved. The solitary white mage may not stand a chance but could add a lot to PVP if say, paired with a warrior.

The only reason why this wasn't done as often in FFXI is because it was just such a hassle to get a bunch of people together at a certain time to register, wait, etc. That's the real issue. I think what should be implemented, if you want PVP, is an easier, more friendly way of facilitating matches.

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#72 Jun 04 2009 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Grimluck wrote:
The problem is that balancing classes to fit specific roles in PvE, often imbalances PvP and vice versa. Having it so that all classes are balanced in PvP and PvE is almost impossible.

Abilities can be change in ways that only affect pvp. In WoW several abilities that disable enemies for extended periods of time, such as turning them into a sheep for 30 seconds, have had that time reduced in pvp to make them more balanced.


Its funny your mentioning WoW as reference since WoW PVP is broken and its what have destroyed WoW.
#73 Jun 04 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Maldavian wrote:
Its funny your mentioning WoW as reference since WoW PVP is broken and its what have destroyed WoW.

Except it's not. The fanboyism is really growing old fast.
#74 Jun 04 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Kainase wrote:

I don't really understand the "Balancing 20 jobs for PVP" argument. It's been mentioned before, but do you really expect a white mage to be able to stand up to some heavy melee class? Maybe with some skills or tricks, but generally I wouldn't think so--because that's not the white mage's role. PVP doesn't always have to be about a single class versus another class, it's expected some may have an advantage over others. To me, it just says that there should be PVP between parties, so that there is some strategy and planning involved. The solitary white mage may not stand a chance but could add a lot to PVP if say, paired with a warrior.

The only reason why this wasn't done as often in FFXI is because it was just such a hassle to get a bunch of people together at a certain time to register, wait, etc. That's the real issue. I think what should be implemented, if you want PVP, is an easier, more friendly way of facilitating matches.



No, the reason why FFXI never implemented real PvP was that it would destroy the game, a good testimony is to look at what has happened to WoW. To balance PVP you will unbalance PVE and to balance PVE you will unbalance PVP. If you bother to follow blizzards patch updates, you will see constant changes to abilities and skills every time a patch is out, and you ask yourself why? Why the fu*k are they changing it almost on a daily basis even after 5 years and still continue changing it every god **** patch ? Simple answer, it has to do with that PVE < > PVP balancing issues. I would hate to see FF14 to be in the same shi*t that WoW is. Also this takes enormous resources from the developers to constantly change abilities and remake skill for 20 classes and all their abilites and skills for balancing purpose, when that resource can be spent on making us new content. So again NO to PvP.
#75 Jun 04 2009 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Maldavian wrote:
Its funny your mentioning WoW as reference since WoW PVP is broken and its what have destroyed WoW.

Except it's not. The fanboyism is really growing old fast.


So you are saying that WoW PvP is not broken ?
You want me to link to the WoW forums concering this issue ?
Again, I really hate people trying to destroy FF14 with PvP the same way it has destroyed WoW, and if you fu*king bother to read the problems WoW has with its PvP you are welcome to goto their forums and read about it.
#76 Jun 04 2009 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
To balance PVP you will unbalance PVE and to balance PVE you will unbalance PVP.


...but changes to abilities (if neeeded) could be exclusive to just PVP. Provoke in FFXI is one such example, they have different effects depending if it's PVP or PVE.
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#77 Jun 04 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Kainase wrote:
Quote:
To balance PVP you will unbalance PVE and to balance PVE you will unbalance PVP.


...but changes to abilities (if neeeded) could be exclusive to just PVP. Provoke in FFXI is one such example, they have different effects depending if it's PVP or PVE.


Yes true, but then again, you will never get that perfect for 20 classes, again I’m refereeing to WoW and that they have not succeeded in balancing their PvP even though they dont have 20 classes.
#78 Jun 04 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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Then FFXI will lack in members just like the first one dead and become a dead end MMO as more games with variety that look more towards casuals come out. (WoW). If they changed the abilities and spells while pvping it would make balencing a whole lot easier while it still being a very PvE dominate game.
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#79 Jun 04 2009 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Headakeee wrote:
Then FFXI will lack in members just like the first one dead and become a dead end MMO as more games with variety that look more towards casuals come out. (WoW). If they changed the abilities and spells while pvping it would make balencing a whole lot easier while it still being a very PvE dominate game.


Not necessary true, it all depends on what kind of content they can provide, and if they have learned anything from FFXI with its current endgame PVE content, FF14 will succeed enormously.
#80 Jun 04 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Maldavian wrote:
So you are saying that WoW PvP is not broken?

It's not broken. It's not perfect, but it's nowhere near unplayable and is still very fun for most of the players.
Maldavian wrote:
You want me to link to the WoW forums concering this issue?

I read the WoW forums. People like to whine. There are problems with WoW pvp in the same way that there are problems with Newtonian physics, but for most purposes and most people it's just fine.
Maldavian wrote:
Again, I really hate people trying to destroy FF14 with PvP the same way it has destroyed WoW, and if you fu*king bother to read the problems WoW has with its PvP you are welcome to goto their forums and read about it.

I played WoW for 2 years. I still read the forums when OOT gets slow. I know it has some problems, but the pvp in most any MMORPG is worse than in WoW, and no pvp is typically worse than any pvp. Warhammer tier 2 pvp is an example of broken. It's played in a volcano area where there are platforms above lava. knockbacks effects are incredibly overpowered because you can send someone flying into the lava which deals massive damage and slows. RF has broken pvp. The entire game is about spamming health potions and abilities. That is broken pvp. WoW pvp is not broken.

pve can be fun and challenging, but it can very easily get boring. Playing against scripted enemies in encounters that have been designed for the player to win can get tedious. Pvp offers dynamic game play in environments where optimal either side is equally capable of winning.

When Ballista was released for FFXI it made the game better.

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 11:18am by Allegory
#81 Jun 04 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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572 posts
- No PVP system.

According to that new intervju, I wonder what that means ;D ?
#82 Jun 04 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
Repressed Memories
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20,804 posts
It means the game will be a little more boring. While that enough to reasonably say the game will start out with no pvp, there's always the chance of later implementation. Of course adding an element in after the fact is messy and will hurt pvp.
#83 Jun 05 2009 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
I have a feeling that the main form of PvP in FFXIV will have something to do with those airships in the trailer, but they will probably also have something similar to ballista, just refine it.
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