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Scrapping a level system altogetherFollow

#52 Jun 04 2009 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I swear I knew nothing, was just chatting with someone talking about how awesome UO was back in the day.

But you can all think I'm psychic anyway. Smiley: sly
#53 Jun 04 2009 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I played UO for a while, but that game can go die in a fire. Thinking about constantly losing full sets of equipment and reagents and whatnot to PKers just makes me appreciate FFXI all the more.
#54 Jun 04 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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There's a clip in Japanese that a friend translated for me that specifically says it will be similar to Ultima Online. Let me see if I can find it.
#55 Jun 04 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well They want players to really develop their characters and by skipping the whole lvling system and go straight to a merit type system... would really be the peak of developing yer character to what you want. I for one would welcome this change with open arms~ i like customization <3

it will be like FFX in a way lol, boosting hp str or get new abilities and such.

Speculations nothing more lmao
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#56 Jun 04 2009 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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I've never played a game that didn't have an experience point system, I don't know how I feel about no system like that. FFXI was my first MMO and I played just about every EQ style MMO out there so I don't really have the point of reference that the UOers do. How in UO did you "level up" the skills? Was it after a certain amount of time spent doing a skill or was it based on luck?
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#57 Jun 04 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with Pikko, and offer further evidence of another MMO that uses a similar development system: E.V.E. Online.

Within E.V.E. your character would select certain skills to work on, which could be changed at any time, and new skills could be bought and learned. As time goes by online (and offline!), your skills would level up. You as a character would never level up, but your individual skills would gradually increase in level. The higher level of skill the longer it takes.

Some skills would require Skill X to be at Level Y in order to learn it. Sometimes multiple skills would need to be leveled in order to learn a high level skill.

I believe S-E is really going to use an UO/EVE type system. To further back this up, one way of putting emphasis on weapons like the devs have mentioned, is that you can skill up many different types of weapons, or specialize in one weapon.
#58 Jun 04 2009 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
In one of the interviews they mentioned weapons being important to the levelling process did anyone else think of the systems like in FFIX and FF Tactics Advance 1 & 2 where you learn skills form certain weapons and armor? Maybe something like that only you dont need a specific piece of armor just the type and level? That could be pretty interesting, like learning white magic from staffs and black magic from wands and weapon skills from swords and axes and whatnot...
#59 Jun 04 2009 at 5:38 PM Rating: Default
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Ok, i think, there will be a standard lvling system, like in FFXI or WoW, but as you gain levels you gain skill points, to customize your character, like the WoW talent system, but improved greatly
#60 Jun 04 2009 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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ConkerPower wrote:
Ok, i think, there will be a standard lvling system, like in FFXI or WoW, but as you gain levels you gain skill points, to customize your character, like the WoW talent system, but improved greatly


SE already said it won't be a standard leveling system...
#61 Jun 04 2009 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Another system which also came to mind was the Mana series.

Not sure if many people played the PS1 "Legend of Mana", but that game focused on equipping certain weapons and abilities to unlock even more powerful ones.

Also, if you played Seiken Densetsu (Secret of Mana), the concept similarly involved a weapon 'palette' that surrounded the player, so you could switch weapons to better deal with your opponent's weakness.

The interesting thing will be how support characters will skill up - most likely, each spell / JA activated would count towards skilling up, because in one of the interviews, the SE rep stated that they didn't want everyone meleeing and that the party dynamic would be based on balance.
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#62 Jun 04 2009 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Well FFII had a system in which any character could use any weapon or spell. You became more skilled with the ability the more you used it and your stats followed suit depending on what you used.

Star Wars Galaxies had a system in which you point in which you applied to any job tree. For example to become a ranger you would max out the scout tree, max out marksmen, and one or two tiers of crafting.

I can't wait to see what SE has up their sleeve.
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#63 Jun 04 2009 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
I would like to see a system that is a little beyond *Gather together a healer, tank, some randoms dds, and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles lolibris for the next 6 hours."



FTFY.
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#64 Jun 04 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
I am going to post it again in a different thread.


THIS IS FINAL FANTASY.

YES THERE WILL BE LEVELS. Just like there will be jobs, and there will be MP, and there will be HP, and there will be moogles, there will be CID, there will be chocobos.

I might be wrong this time, but I got 12 games played to back me up.

Maybe the job system will be more like tactics and let you pick and choose, maybe there will be only skill levels, and all spells or abilities or weapon restrictions are based on those.

BUT DAMMIT THERE WILL BE LEVELS. IT IS A FINAL FANTASY.

Seriously, what the topic of debate on an Alla forum is whether or not there will be levels in an upcoming final fantasy game?

Maybe the next Halo won't have any guns.


No, just no....FFS, even SE said that there will be a growth system that has nothing to do with levels.

Sorry for double post, I'm reading this thread after a 7 hour day and 45 minute drive both ways from work...I'm tired ^-.-^

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 2:36am by Magicalsquirrel
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#65 Jun 04 2009 at 10:47 PM Rating: Default
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Well, what I originally posted was done so before the SE press conference.

Thanks for quoting it and saying SE already said there would be no levels after the conference was over.

But I still stand by my point, there will be a leveling system. I have read 'Oh FFX had no leveling system'. Yes it did, you got points and leveled up your sphere grid. I have read, 'Oh FFIX had no mp', yes it did, it just had you draw out the magic from enemies to use later on. (BTW the Draw system was my least favorite FF system ever implemented, but that is personal preference). I have seen UO (the granddaddy of MMOs) mentioned as a game with no levels. Funny, why did we spend so much **** time in that game trying to learn a spell, or be better with a sword? Oh I remember, so we could level them up.

Do you REALLY think there will be no experience points or leveling up in this game? Would any RPG player really be happy with that? Maybe some will.

****, maybe the next Halo really will have no guns.
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#66 Jun 04 2009 at 10:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know how Ultima Online works, but the news made me think of Romancing Saga 3.

The skills / magic / stats you gained in this game depended on what actions you took during battle.

For example:

If you used a bow and just shot you would eventually gain a light bulb above your head, telling you learned a certain new random bow skill.

Now if you spammed that new bow skill you would eventually unlock a better bow skill.

Defensive/evasive weaponskills were learned the same away. Think you could get parry from swords/rapiers.

There was a max to the skills in general you could learn so eventually you had to drop skills. But you could remember skills from different weapons at the same time and during battle this enabled you to use different weapontypes too.

Stats like hp,mp etc. were gained at the end of each battle depending on what you used/got hit by during battle. (If you spammed magic chances were higher you would get mp)


It was a pretty fun game, but I can imagine it being hard setting up parties with this system. With no real easy indication what level you are imagine how long those shouts could be (0.O;)



p.s. Hmmm Wiki says this game was published by Square too.

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 8:59am by RedGalka

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 9:02am by RedGalka
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#67Shazaamemt, Posted: Jun 04 2009 at 10:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ockham's razor is what I am arguing.
#68 Jun 04 2009 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
Ockham's razor is what I am arguing.

Many times SE has announced something and the community has taken it Waaaaaaay off base. History shows, however, that with SE online games that the simplest answers are best. Of course there will be a way to level up your character. It just is probably not through simple grinding.

I think the solo play will take a tip from wow and allow quests to grant exp (or skill levels if that is what we want to call exp here, or skill points, whatever.

The title of this thread is "SCRAPPING A LEVEL SYSTEM ALTOGETHER". That sounds like no sphere grid, no license board, no tactic's style skill ups, no UO style skill ups, and so on and so forth.

EXCUSE ME FOR TAKING THE TITLE AND SUBJECT OF THE THREAD SERIOUSLY.

Maybe I misunderstood, but to me a game with NO LEVEL SYSTEM AT ALL is akin to playing a FPS, where it is all about who has the better reflexes. And maybe that is what SE is making, no gear, no skill ratings, just your char with a couple set jobs you can be.



We are talking about SE here and on top of that an MMO that’s going to probably replace FFXI and I assume they want a game that last longer than FF11. Also they emphasized HEAVILY on growth all the time in the intervjus, meaning GRIND. If you don’t grind you don’t grow, simple logic.
#69 Jun 04 2009 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I said level system and by that I meant EQ's level 1-60 or whatever it eventually got up to, complete with **** and Pain levels. I meant FFXI's 1-75 and 1-37 to complete your job combo level system. If you're going to nitpick semantics, I meant a numerical level system. Sure, you can argue that a sphere or grid is a leveling system, but that's not what my subject was addressing.
#70 Jun 05 2009 at 2:56 AM Rating: Good
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With the emphasis SE has been putting on weapons in FFXIV, I wouldn't be surprised if rather than leveling yourself, you level up your weapons, which would correspond roughly with jobs. Combine that with a separate skillup system of some kind, and you'd have a very nontraditional leveling system that still incorporates the idea of grinding to grow your character, without ever literally leveling up.

It'll be very interesting to see what SE actually has up their sleeves.
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#71 Jun 05 2009 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm hoping for a system similar to FFX's grid sphere. But instead the jobs are more defined, it's not just random learned skills. Every mmorpg has levels so if they took them out and made it work i think it would be refreshing, if done well.
#72 Jun 05 2009 at 5:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that a leveling system similar to a sphere grid would be quite intriguing, though I can't see how that would lead to all too much diversity... Although, then again, I can. Oh jeez, I'm torn. You could have 500 people follow the same set paths or you could have 500 people skipping around and picking up what they want... It would be cool, but they would have to implement it just right, and not exactly set up like in FFX.

I was thinking about the possibilities of natural progression, though. What if your abilities developed depending on your play style? Maybe you run around equipped with an axe all the time and swinging at monster, gradually your axe skill increases and abilities become available. Meanwhile, your friend is running around with you but he is switching between an axe and a sword, and different abilities become available to him. There are no real defined levels, just abilities that become available as you play the game in your desired way. Maybe even, you always run around with a sickle harvesting, one an ability pops up that increases your harvesting results. Smiley: yikes Oh the possibilities...
The one problem I see with that is that people might not like how their character is turning out. That's not to say that they couldn't just play differently, but then it wouldn't exactly feel "natural" now would it?

Bleh, Smiley: lol ok, I'm done brain-puking for you all.
#73 Jun 05 2009 at 5:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I was telling a friend about how instead of "@ merit runic portal 6/6 75 ranger warrior ninja" we'll be seeing "@merit runic portal 6/6 75 great sword katana"

I don't think the grind is going away. I mean, that's part of any rpg, the grind to max your character skills. SE talks about weapons are the focus point here, so I wouldn't be surprised if people PT in FFXIV based around weapon skills and not character levels. It's essentially the same thing, just focus being on the weapon instead.

I sorta hope not because it isn't really change of any kind then, but whatever they go with, it's a step away from tradition. At least it's something different.
#74 Jun 05 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm excited about the new system of skilling up. It would allow you to really customize the character the way you want. And I wouldn't mind the grind because it is a general part of any mmo. ****, grinding is a part of life itself, you practice something over and over until you get better at it. I can't wait to hear about the details and I am beginning to save up for my ps3 for next year.
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#75 Jun 05 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
I would love a new leveling system. Honestly right now FFXi is getting stale because you party up and fight the same mobs for hours. It would be neat to see an open battle system like FF12 where you are traveling with your party, encounter mobs and defeat them in a few seconds. You see this a lot in Hack & Slash games. Sacred 2 is a good example of this. What I like about Sacred 2 is the ability to customize your character. Characters get to choose up to 10 skills such as Dual Wield, Armor Lore, Sword weapons, etc. You get to learn a new skill at pre-defined levels and then with each level you gain, you get points to dump into that skill to further enhance it, such as leveling up Dual Wield increases the speed at which you attack and how much dmg you do while dual wielding. I believe Xenosaga Episode 1 was similar in a way that you received points after every battle (Along with exp) and those points were used to upgrade skills.

For FF14, I'd love to see a grid system that unlocks skills, abilities, and weapon mastery. Mobs can give points towards that system or drop items that are used to further skills and abilities. One thing I am really hoping for in this new MMO is the stray away from timed NM's. I'd rather have NM's either be part of chain quests, or in instanced dungeons.
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#76 Jun 05 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
I would like to see a system that is a little beyond *Gather together a healer, tank, some randoms dds, and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles lolibris for the next 6 hours."



You mean you want to solo and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles for the next 6 hours ?



Edited, Jun 5th 2009 5:32pm by Maldavian
#77 Jun 05 2009 at 1:45 PM Rating: Default
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Maldavian wrote:
Torrence wrote:
I would like to see a system that is a little beyond *Gather together a healer, tank, some randoms dds, and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles lolibris for the next 6 hours."



You mean you want to solo and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles for the next 6 hours ?



Edited, Jun 5th 2009 5:32pm by Maldavian


who said you would have to kill bats crawler, etc for 6 hrs? They did say they would make it more solo friendly, geez stop being so negative with everything. :) smile
#78 Jun 05 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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gaiaxzero wrote:
Maldavian wrote:
Torrence wrote:
I would like to see a system that is a little beyond *Gather together a healer, tank, some randoms dds, and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles lolibris for the next 6 hours."



You mean you want to solo and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles for the next 6 hours ?



Edited, Jun 5th 2009 5:32pm by Maldavian


who said you would have to kill bats crawler, etc for 6 hrs? They did say they would make it more solo friendly, geez stop being so negative with everything. :) smile


LOL I’m not being negative, the poster writes that he wanted a system different then gather together people to kill of some bats crawlers and beetles, and I provided him with an option that you can do it solo, how is that negative ?
#79 Jun 05 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Please please please let it be a SaGa-style system where I can specialize in a weapon class and learn a bunch of flashy techniques for it with a chance of comboing with teammates.
#80 Jun 05 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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personally I think that the character development system is going to be a lot like melee system + job progress in the original FF tactics. You'll have basic starter jobs and when you meet standards of skills/spells/tokens whatever, you can open new spells, skills, WS, and jobs through quests. Going future on you can specialize even your job but how you like to specialize a skill and carry that over to another job. Think a very expanded merit point system for you character mixed with another system for your jobs.

Making even 2 blms possibly completely different. One mage with heavy magic, and the other spamming a WS that converts hp to MP to cast weaker spells and a more consistent rate ;)
#81 Jun 05 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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Maldavian wrote:
gaiaxzero wrote:
Maldavian wrote:
Torrence wrote:
I would like to see a system that is a little beyond *Gather together a healer, tank, some randoms dds, and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles lolibris for the next 6 hours."



You mean you want to solo and then kill bats, crawlers, or beetles for the next 6 hours ?



Edited, Jun 5th 2009 5:32pm by Maldavian


who said you would have to kill bats crawler, etc for 6 hrs? They did say they would make it more solo friendly, geez stop being so negative with everything. :) smile


LOL I’m not being negative, the poster writes that he wanted a system different then gather together people to kill of some bats crawlers and beetles, and I provided him with an option that you can do it solo, how is that negative ?


it just sounded negative :) personally im so hoping to try the beta and start fraping it then start posting it on youtube.

there is one thing im hoping that does'nt come into play and that armor damage though, i would'nt like to find out if you have to repair your armor if you take on a lot of damage or weapon like in some other games.

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 8:18pm by gaiaxzero
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