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#1 Jun 03 2009 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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What's everybody's opinion on fan made mods for the game? I was actually kinda hoping this would of came up during the Q&A earlier.

Personally, I think SE should lighten up their policy on mods. I could understand how they didn't want PC users to have an advantage over PS2 users, but that's not a problem anymore. The PS3 can handle saving and using modifications, so everything could be cross system. Obviously, it kinda opens a floodgate for things like bots and such, but they're going to exist anyway, and they'll just have to monitor those things. Only other problem I can see coming out of it is if the game is actually released for the 360. Microsoft is completely against having player made mods in any games on their system. See Unreal Tournament 3, as an example. It has mods (and cross system play; PS3 <-> PC) on every system other than the 360 because of Microsoft.
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#2 Jun 03 2009 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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The reason we can't use mods is because it gives PC players an unfair advantage. I doubt that this will change since modding the PS3 would prove about as difficult as modding the PS2.

Hopefully SE has gotten some better UI designers. The look and feel of XIII seems promising imo.
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#3 Jun 03 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
I'd hope that they'd include enough functionality in the design to prevent the need for mods. Most of the legit mods in FFXI make up for things the UI lacks that should be in game in a basic level. Beyond that, I really don't like the idea of too much automation in a game, it takes something out of it when every aspect of it has a mod to lessen challenge or game the system.
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#4 Jun 03 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Default
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There won't be mods, it is really better this way, mods destroyed WOW
Talking about mods applications, not graphic mods obviously.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 10:03pm by Squallido
#5 Jun 03 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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I doubt we'll see them. If SE is approaching it with an eye to a 360 port and they know ahead of time that Microsoft is going to block the option for mods, they could do a serious disservice to the entire playerbase by allowing them. If modding is a common practice, eventually content has to be tuned around the assumption that most players are going to be using certain popular mods. If you don't have access to those mods, the content becomes unreasonably difficult. If SE doesn't tune encounters around the existence of certain popular mods, those mods break the game for the people who use them. If the mods are not something that is available to every player (whether they choose to use them or not), they shouldn't be allowed at all.
#6 Jun 03 2009 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
I doubt we'll see them. If SE is approaching it with an eye to a 360 port and they know ahead of time that Microsoft is going to block the option for mods, they could do a serious disservice to the entire playerbase by allowing them. If modding is a common practice, eventually content has to be tuned around the assumption that most players are going to be using certain popular mods. If you don't have access to those mods, the content becomes unreasonably difficult. If SE doesn't tune encounters around the existence of certain popular mods, those mods break the game for the people who use them. If the mods are not something that is available to every player (whether they choose to use them or not), they shouldn't be allowed at all.


Agree 100%, neither PS3 or XBOX360 will allow mod and that would make players on PC a huge advantage over console players. As a reference if we check WoW the gamedesigners have in their calculation that you are USING several types of mod when designing highend content.

Edited, Jun 4th 2009 3:57am by Maldavian
#7 Jun 04 2009 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah the primary reason that SE disallows mods on FFXI is because PS2 and 360 users can't use them, I do however think there's a way around this.

The PS3 has some capabilities that the PS2 doesn't (we'll ignore the 360 for now since that hasn't been announced in any official way) including, but not limited to, a much larger storage capacity. The increased HDD space opens up the possibility of UI modifications as DLC (no wait... hear me out on this). Let's say SE makes tools available to create UI mods for the game, these mods don't do anything on their own, they have to be submitted to SE before they can be installed as modules in the game itself. Once SE accepts them, they're able to make those mods available via PSN to the console users, this eliminates any disadvantage a console user would have due to mod inaccessibility and allows users the freedom (limited though it is) to change their UI.

Also for reference about Blizzard since that was mentioned. They USED to balance the game based around the fact that people are going to use certain addons, but they don't do that anymore because it was massively unfair to those people that were playing the game without them (which is not a small number of people), instead they've just made their fights more creative and increased the need for situational awareness instead of twitchy, or in some cases, automated responses from addons
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#8 Jun 04 2009 at 12:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Not this, here?

I am not saying this to make the Windower guys feel bad, but I doubt they could actually make a working Windower for FFXIV for at least a few months. Also, who is to say SE won't make a good UI this time and make a Windower useless (except for actually cheating this time around)?
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#9 Jun 04 2009 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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As a FFXI veteran (5 jobs to 75 ZM, COP completed, all assaults and ToAU completed, First Lieutenant) AND as a current WoW raider doing ulduar, and naxxramas heroic completed, let me say this:

Mods have their place for being useful, but the UI you end up with trying to tank at the endgame of WOW is REDICULOUS. I can hardly see my character, much less appreciate the things I am a doing story-wise. Healers don't even look at the other players, they just look at their addons. AND THESE ARE ALL THINGS THE DEVELOPERS COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADD INTO THE GAME, YET THEY ARE ALMOST A CERTAIN REQUIREMENT. It is one thing to have an arrow added on to your map to show you where to go from an addon, it's entirely another thing to have the whole screen covered by crap just to do your job.

But that's comparing apples and oranges, or windower and healbot. I know Blizzard wishes it had more control over the UI addons at this point, and they are trying (in vain) to reign them in now.

SE has a chance to change this. Allow certain UI changes in the PC 'test' areas (and test areas are a good idea, as long as SE keeps it's level of quality above that of blizzard as it has done) to be downloaded via the PS3 app store. If you want windowed mode, well it's sure to be built in with the PS3's bars. But things such as 'healbot' or 'tankadin' simply reduce the game to button pushes and watching the bars instead of the game.
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#10 Jun 04 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
AureliusSir wrote:
I doubt we'll see them. If SE is approaching it with an eye to a 360 port and they know ahead of time that Microsoft is going to block the option for mods, they could do a serious disservice to the entire playerbase by allowing them. If modding is a common practice, eventually content has to be tuned around the assumption that most players are going to be using certain popular mods. If you don't have access to those mods, the content becomes unreasonably difficult. If SE doesn't tune encounters around the existence of certain popular mods, those mods break the game for the people who use them. If the mods are not something that is available to every player (whether they choose to use them or not), they shouldn't be allowed at all.


I think this is something people forget, Aurelius. If mods become common place, the content has to be tuned to still be challenging and suddenly people who aren't/can't use mods are disadvantages.
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#11 Jun 04 2009 at 12:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Callinon wrote:

Also for reference about Blizzard since that was mentioned. They USED to balance the game based around the fact that people are going to use certain addons, but they don't do that anymore because it was massively unfair to those people that were playing the game without them (which is not a small number of people), instead they've just made their fights more creative and increased the need for situational awareness instead of twitchy, or in some cases, automated responses from addons


Addons is still used by 100% of the raiding community. So now that blizzard doesnt count in the addon factor,,, it becomes even more easier to beat the content, making wow even more casual.
#12 Jun 04 2009 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
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All said, I would rather have no mods at all (even the useful ones like windower) then end up with the bastardization of the game that WOW becomes once you realize how many UI mods are necessary to be good.
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#13 Jun 04 2009 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
Eh if nothing else, I'm 100% certain they still expect healers to have either healbot or clique. They've talked before about a way to integrate better raid tracking in the default UI for healers, but that hasn't been done yet and they still have fights that require healers to be cleansing and healing in ways that require mods.

DPS can probably get away with no mods now. (Except ret paladins better have pally power. Smiley: mad)
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#14 Jun 04 2009 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to say no mods period and hope they understand they need a better UI customization for the PC users at least to mitigate this. I know there is a big following in MMORPG's on the PC with the ability to style the game around your own control style, but it just can't be controlled properly and like /NIN in FFXI, eventually the game starts being tuned to this kind of behaviour in mind and would greatly disadvantage PS3 and what will likely be Xbox360 players eventually too. The PC only people need to get over the fact that this is a console game first, PC game second and play within the boundaries they are given. I tolerated that behaviour in FFXI because the UI was really archaic for PC users but they have the chance to get it right this time. And yes I never used the windower application for FFXI till an official one was made. It just doesn't belong in a Console 'based' MMO no matter if the PC has the game too.
#15 Jun 04 2009 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Addons is still used by 100% of the raiding community. So now that blizzard doesnt count in the addon factor,,, it becomes even more easier to beat the content, making wow even more casual.


And that is about the crappiest way to make something 'casual' I have ever heard of.

Go online and find a mob by shifting through pages, download and unzip it, make sure to install it to the addons folder of your wow folder, then make sure it is up to date and activate it in you character selection screen. Oh and while you are there see what is out of date, log out then see if you can update them, if not, log back in, double check your out of date addons by clicking the left corner of your character screen, then log out, get back into your wow folder from your system programs folder, go down to add-ons, and just click delete, but make sure you don't just delete the folder, but all of its contents. Provided you can't just get a new addon that you searched for that will replace the out-of-date ones.

Beware of trackers or viruses.
I swear this is how Bliz can market authenticators, you need the add-ons to play, but they don't make them, and you might just get your account stolen unless you shell out more money. And even then if it gets stolen, oh well, you already signed your life away at least once a month when you resign the new user terms.

Yeah, much more casual than just logging on and trying to play for an hour.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing wow, but saying that ignoring add-ons makes it more casual is like saying that just because the rest of the world has sticks and you have a gun makes killing an elephant casual for the guys with sticks.
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