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The job system seems obvious from what they said.Follow

#52 Jun 05 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
What purpose would jumping serve especially since it's very likely to be no terrain that would require it? :P

They said something about timing, so it would make sense there would be a more active 'action button'.


The only really pertinent thing is not being able to go up ledges that are a foot high. That really breaks immersion and is crappy design.
#53 Jun 06 2009 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking that people may have overlooked things maybe instead of your weapons determining how you characters lvl maybe they determine how your job/class lvls it would make sense.
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#54 Jun 06 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Default
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I envision the system working something like the materia system of FFVII, except with weapons. You pick you job and can use a set number of weapons, each weapon has a set number of skills attached to it which open up with more use. Then at a certain level your new weapon becomes available, with a new set of skills.
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#55 Jun 06 2009 at 6:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone worried about these new system possibilities?

Realize that the games like FFTA and Last Remnant are single player games. What happens when you play it long enough? Pretty much all your characters become round-out cookie cutters.

You can't really have a "Learn-from-items" system, or "Use this ability and get better stats from it." because everyone will eventually turn out the same, and there will be no diversity..

"Who wants to heal AV?"
"What are you talking about? We can all heal, tank, and DPS... We've only been playing this game for a year."

I for one, like the job system. I like how certain classes have certain abilities and traits. I'd rather keep the job system, give us maybe, some stat bonuses depending on the weapon.
#56 Jun 06 2009 at 6:26 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Realize that the games like FFTA and Last Remnant are single player games. What happens when you play it long enough? Pretty much all your characters become round-out cookie cutters.

You can't really have a "Learn-from-items" system, or "Use this ability and get better stats from it." because everyone will eventually turn out the same, and there will be no diversity..

"Who wants to heal AV?"
"What are you talking about? We can all heal, tank, and DPS... We've only been playing this game for a year."


I totally agree that eventually in FFTA & FFTA2 your characters eventually become cookie-cutters. But that is with mixing and matching jobs. Also the fact that one character can not Tank, heal, dps, etc. in any of those games because you can only use abilities from two jobs. But I understand where you were going with your idea. The problem I have with the "Learn-from-items" system is that people will not always be able to access the weapons they need to learn whether it be because of price or the need for it to drop of an NM etc.
#57 Jun 06 2009 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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From what I understand it seems like the job system will resemble a little of both FFTA and the original FFT. Every battle will reward you with points that you can spend learning specific abilities pertaining to your class, some can only be learned after learning their prerequisites: Fire costs 100AP and must be learned before you can invest the 400AP to learn Fira. You may also be able to set a 'Sub Skill' category, which would be the abilities learned from using a different job. This is much like the subjob from FFXI, but is not limited to 1/2 your current level. This could lead to some deadly and some very useful combinations. A White mage with a black mage subskill would be able to toss in that Fire every once in a while if the so choose to spend the 100AP while they earned AP on thier black mage. This particular idea brings about the dreaded leveling of the subclass, and an opening for elitism.

I can also see reaction commands and support ablitities resembling those in FFTA. While you may learn counterattack from the theif ability list, you can set it as your reaction command, thus making it usable as whatever job you are playing. This system will work the same with abilities such as 'Shield Bearer' giving you access to shields no matter what job you are playing. Classes would be changeable from a menu, not only a mog house, or a home point crystal equivilant. In the FFT and FFTA game you simply had to be out of combat.

Levels could be used if they wanted to, but you could still earn AP even after reaching the level cap. Balancing the main skills and the 'Sub Skills' would be incredibly difficult though. Everyone would be leveling Ninja for the 999AP required for dual-wield, warrior for +Phyical Damage and so forth. This does lend itself to what could be called "Super classes" A Paladin mainclass with a warrior "Sub Skill" set would, when AP capped be able to use all a paladins abilities and all of a warriors abilities to their maximum potential, with the counterattack reaction command and +Physical Def. bonus from the support effect. This "Super Paladin" could do both tank, and damage deal at the same time, granted they will be restricted by their choice of weapons. Of course a major amount of time would have to be spent in order to reach this level of proficiency, thus lending itself to elitism.

The AP earned while main classing a paladin would be unuseable if you were to change jobs to a warrior. This gives each class its own customizability, much like the World of Warcraft talent system. It does give more satisfaction after each encounter with a monster, you a visibly closer to that next ability even if your level is much farther away. I for one don't like learning spells by weapons, unless these weapons are obtained through job specific quest chains or some sort.

This is my interpretation of what the job system sounds like. Sorry for the long post, but it was the best way I knew how to describe it. 1 years seems so far away...It's like christmas when I was younger.
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#58 Jun 06 2009 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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What hidden meanings?
Square Enix told us that when it approached Amano to do the logo art for FFXIV, that weapons were very important and to think of the concept of a "wheel." Specifically, a wheel of adventurers that has their weapon in front of them and an exposed backside -- which leaves each adventurer to rely heavily on their comrades and their friends. Let the speculation begin.


Oddly enough this really do remind me of FFT. The instant I read wheel.... I immediately thought FFT. It literally was a wheel of options, where after you leveled enough, you get to choose the next job and get better at that. The thing is, if you don't like the next job, you could always revert back to your old job if you wanted to. So you literally get to choose over dozens if not more than that. You can play as a Squire, as Summoner, as a Black Mage, as a White Mage, as a Geomancer, and so on and so on and still go back a sleveling as a Squire if you really wanted to.

My assumption, while they retain FFXI-ness, is that while you progress you get to choose to advance from one job or advance to said split job. I don't exactly remember, but for FFT when you level your character long enough, you get the option of changing the BLM to a Time Mage or a Summoner or Geomancer. At this time, to continue with FFXI tradition, you get to choose any of the pre existing jobs you have before changing to your current job. I suppose if you got to Summoner, you have the choice to use BLM or maybe WHM as a sub. But as I said earlier, this doesn't mean you can't go back to your other jobs to play as a main. This literally allows you to level all jobs to 75 if you were to put it in terms of FFXI

It is also assumed by others that the actions you implement in the game also dictates what job you may or may not be able to play as. Weapons such as swords may get you closer to a Paladin, while a Spear may get you closer to a Dragoon. While a Staff/Rod can split you between WHM or Blm into a Time Mage, Summoner, Geomancer

I don't remember the class specifics mind you. But I seriously do think something along the lines of FFT considering they said wheel

Ok to make it simpler, you get a couple ways you can play in the beginning, when you level long enough, you get more jobs which you can choose from.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 11:12pm by EarthernFury
#59 Jun 06 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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MilkshakesOO wrote:

"Who wants to heal AV?"
"What are you talking about? We can all heal, tank, and DPS... We've only been playing this game for a year."


It's no different than someone who has leveled PLD, WAR, NIN, and WHM to the cap, only the old system has room to be more freestyle, diverse, and intuitive. Just because the implication is there that the new development system will be more freeform and diverse doesn't mean you're going to max out your abilities in any one area faster than you would level a normal job to the cap.
#60 Jun 06 2009 at 7:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's no different than someone who has leveled PLD, WAR, NIN, and WHM to the cap, only the old system has room to be more freestyle, diverse, and intuitive. Just because the implication is there that the new development system will be more freeform and diverse doesn't mean you're going to max out your abilities in any one area faster than you would level a normal job to the cap.


No, I was making a point that in the newer systems.. everyone will be able to do every roll.. at the same time.
#61 Jun 06 2009 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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MilkshakesOO wrote:
Quote:
It's no different than someone who has leveled PLD, WAR, NIN, and WHM to the cap, only the old system has room to be more freestyle, diverse, and intuitive. Just because the implication is there that the new development system will be more freeform and diverse doesn't mean you're going to max out your abilities in any one area faster than you would level a normal job to the cap.


No, I was making a point that in the newer systems.. everyone will be able to do every roll.. at the same time.


Determining who would be eligible for different kinds of loot would be up to the group to decide. It's no different from the way WoW works right now. With the exception of tokens for raid sets, any player of any class can roll on any piece of gear that drops. Players who get in the habit of rolling on gear that isn't suited to their role in a group tend to develop a very poor reputation very quickly.

Edit: I misunderstood your post due to the minor typo, but the above paragraph answers a question that I'm sure will come up anyways.

I've commented in other posts that right now in most MMOs, your job/class + level defines your abilities and what gear you use and as such, defines your role in a group. If you take away the job designations (and their coded restrictions) and the level, it becomes a case where your abilities and gear in conjunction with the combat mechanics define your role. Assuming that the option to swap gear during combat is removed, if you are tanking an encounter, you're going to be using a weapon suited to a tank which may not necessarily be that great for dps. You're going to be using gear that augments your defensive stats which would again hamper your dps. In most MMOs, being hit by physical attacks can cause casting knockbacks/interruptions, meaning you're not going to be a very effective offensive caster or healer, not to mention having a reduced MP pool because you're in tank gear instead of caster gear.

In that same encounter, even if everyone in your group can heal, it would be much, much easier from an organizational standpoint to assign designated healers. Not only would that indicate what gear a player should wear, it would make for a more efficient group. If no healing assignments were made, the chance of getting an adequate amount of healing as needed without an enormous amount of redundant/overhealing would be pretty slim. Or even worse, everyone is expecting everyone else to heal so your tank is dead almost immediately.

If a player didn't want to invest the time into accumulating multiple gear sets for multiple roles, there's nothing stopping them from simply focusing on one role. Diverse. Freeform. Player-driven growth and development. Sounds pretty tasty to me.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 9:17pm by AureliusSir
#62 Jun 07 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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maybe the "wheel" has something to do with weapon affinity too....kinda like elemental affinity.....

for instance....if you've played Fire emblem, you know spears do more dmg to sword, which in turn do better against axes, etc. (i hope i got the direction correct).....much like how thunder > water > fire > ice > wind > earth > thunder kinda wheel

so there's more variation on weapon choices based on situations rather than everyone going for a single weapon type.

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 2:59pm by hiyohiyo
#63 Jun 07 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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One Weapon = one skill seems unlikely to me.
Weapon type = learned skill progression seems believable though
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#64 Jun 07 2009 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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collinevan wrote:
Just got through reading the IGN interview and the live blog here on the forum.

Am I crazy for thinking that this inverview sounds like that's the direction?
Actually, I suddenly thought of the growth system from the SaGa games. Of course, that means learning advanced skills would be a total pain. >.>;
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#65 Jun 07 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
What purpose would jumping serve especially since it's very likely to be no terrain that would require it? :P

Two purposes.

A. Fun. Fun is not a bad thing. Fun is not poison. Yes it's fine if jump is useless 99% of the time, as long as it's fun.

B. Getting over roadbumps. Seriously. Logs in MMOs without a jump button? ****. Logs. Seriously.
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#66 Jun 07 2009 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Realize that the games like FFTA and Last Remnant are single player games. What happens when you play it long enough? Pretty much all your characters become round-out cookie cutters.


Same thing in FFXI...

We know jobs are returning...but they'll be somewhat different than XI.

Right now from what's been said I think it will be:

*I pick WHM (standard and almost guaranteed to be in)*
I go equip a wand that has Cure, I fight to get the necessary AP/EXP needed to permanently learn it.

*I pick WAR (also a standard ff job)*
I go euqip a great axe w/ <insert skill here> and get the necessary AP/EXP.

I know have a <insert level> WHM and <insert level> WAR. This is if they keep EXP and leveling. Anyway, this is what it seems to me what it will be like.
#67 Jun 07 2009 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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Karelyn wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
What purpose would jumping serve especially since it's very likely to be no terrain that would require it? :P

Two purposes.

A. Fun. Fun is not a bad thing. Fun is not poison. Yes it's fine if jump is useless 99% of the time, as long as it's fun.

B. Getting over roadbumps. Seriously. Logs in MMOs without a jump button? @#%^. Logs. Seriously.


I wouldn't care too much about a 'Jump' button as much as I would care about a 'Action' button. And action button would make alot of the animations alot smoother, you could have options to climb on top of boxes, jump from 1 ledge to another, or over a small stream. What I don't mean is specific points where there are action points that you must click on in order to jump the river. The action button could very well have a default animation of the character jumping if you weren't near anything. Another thing I don't want is a jump button that is entirely useless, and if anyone has played RF Online you know what I'm talking about. The jump animation didn't get you over rocks, or over ledges or anytihng. It simply had a very choppy animation of your character leaving the ground and returning to the ground; completely useless.
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#68 Jun 07 2009 at 8:02 PM Rating: Good
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Mictam wrote:
I wouldn't care too much about a 'Jump' button as much as I would care about a 'Action' button. And action button would make alot of the animations alot smoother, you could have options to climb on top of boxes, jump from 1 ledge to another, or over a small stream. What I don't mean is specific points where there are action points that you must click on in order to jump the river. The action button could very well have a default animation of the character jumping if you weren't near anything. Another thing I don't want is a jump button that is entirely useless, and if anyone has played RF Online you know what I'm talking about. The jump animation didn't get you over rocks, or over ledges or anytihng. It simply had a very choppy animation of your character leaving the ground and returning to the ground; completely useless.

While an omnipotent action button would be nice, I can't recall ever having played a videogame that doesn't have those "specific points" for using an action button, which ultimately feels very restricting.

The only way to free yourself from the restrictions of the environment, is by giving an environment neutral tool, most commonly a jump, to free yourself up to jump on top of boxes, jump from one ledge to another, or jump over a small stream.
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#69 Jun 07 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I'm just concerned with the choppy animations that usually come with the jump button. If they can implement a smooth transition between leaving the ground and landing on any object I'll be just as happy.
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#70 Jun 08 2009 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I've been thinking a lot about the "job" system as well and the "natural character" progression.

I can see two distinctly different possibilities.
1) Clean Slate character, with stats based on which race you choose, only augmented by gear, with zero skill sets across the board which you "level" I'll use an example for someone looking for a party to "level up/increase stats" where you were, say, a "dark knight". In this scenario you would go /inv with a tag of something like "SCYTHE 44". Depending on your gear, you could cast dark knightish spells (think materia slots for your gear, although I do not believe materia will be in the game, but I am not ruling out you have to meet certain requirements to really pimp out your gear). They higher you advance in skill level, the better gear/weapon you can use. So Character level is out, weapon level is in. You are heavily reliant on your skill of blade/club etc. With your gear applying your "job/class" with whatever latent effects or job abilities you would like. (Sneak Attack Gloves, Provoke Belt, Emnity +/- rings, Divine Seal Necklaces etc} Weapon/Job switching could be done a la Blue Magic: having a short reset period until new spells / skills become active.

With this you could really create your own class, mix and match your own abilities for optimal solo (mixture of healing, attacking, enfeebling) or party play (where you could specialize in something really specific).

2) Branching out to a specific job, where your endgame would be a true (insert job name here). Start off as an "Adventurer" and work your way through skill up parties (what we would call EXP parties) to a combat specialist (relying on blade weapons) then to a tanker (increasing defensive stats) and dabbling in white magic for an endgame of Paladin.

I am leaning towards my first explanation.. sorry if these reads like stereo instructions.. i'm tired.. having thought about writing this post all night kept my mind to active.. and i'm really groggy.


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#71 Jun 08 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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So I am beginning to understand, and see how this system could work (FFTA and FFTA2 combination.) However, the only portion of those leveling systems that I am worried about is the way stats raise per level. If leveling with specific weapons yields different bonuses to stats as you use them (Ex: Using a Great Axe will yield more strength) then what happens when you decide after 40 levels (or the equivalent in FFXIV) of a warrior type job, and want to go play a mage? When you "swap over" does your character retain any/all of the stats you previously via swinging your Great Axe.

If you think about FFTA2 in particular, if you wanted to "max stats" for your characters, you wanted them to level up while being a specific job a certain amount of times. IE: If you leveled up as a Ninja than you would get the maximum "Speed" stat possible for a level up, but you would lack in other areas. So you would basically want to level up as a ninja X amount of times till that speed stat was capped, then swap over to your other job that increases your secondary stat a maximum amount per level up.

I guess the thing that I'm truly fearing is that not only will you have to train in each weapon that you want to gain the specific skills in, but you would also have to train in specific weapons just to level up stats that you want, basically making it seem like a double-subjob in terms of amount of work required. And lastly, what if there is a said cap to your stats? and what if you level up X amount of levels with a great axe or other melee stats increasing weapon, how viable will it be to swap over to a new weapon late down the road? I just think a JOB would be easier, because the job itself would be what determines the amount of each stat you gain per level, and would give the player an opportunity to swap over to a different job with a "clean slate"

----

Now I know I have been chatting already a lot, but humor me if you will for just another minute. What if-- again, this is a big what if. But what if there were no said "jobs" or classification in terms of old FF names (Red Mage, White Mage, etc.) but instead you were just classified as the type of player you are (healer, melee, tank, etc.). And what if, you were able to essentially create your own class, any number of times with your character. For example, say you prefer to play as a healing character, but don't want to get pinned with the typical White Mage abilities that are typically useless, but would rather just focus on picking up the important ones, and the ones that compliment your play style. And say after 40 levels (or again, the equivalent in FFXIV terms) of playing as this style you get bored with it. Now you could 'save' this character build to come back to at a later time as your own "class" if you will, and reset back to the beginning "adventurer" state where your stats and everything reset back to level 1, and you can relevel as a new playing style, say this time as a melee.

Now I know what you are thinking, "Holy sh*t that's a lot of leveling still though". But let's face it, it's an MMO, the company makes money off you having to do a lot of sh*t, and playing their game for a very long time. But to ease some tension from this, you could give certain perks, say allowing you to keep all the skills you learned previously, but just resetting the stats. So now you are a fresh level 1 toon, that you can grow his/her stats in any direction you want, but already know all the mage-class abilities so you don't have to waste your level ups with a mage-weapon if you'd rather level up with a melee weapon to increase stats that increase melee damage.

*EDIT*

Now I know this method seems like a lot of play time required... I mean, I for one for my character would have to level up 2-3 times in total to gain all the abilities I wanted, but in the long run, after you gained all of the abilities through your first or second time leveling, you could then play as your main job you wanted, and really tailor the stats in the direction you wanted. So if you wanted a redmage-type class that was more FFIII redmage like, and could actually melee, you could just level up with some melee-stat enhancing weapons as you leveled. Or you could go the FFXI route and build a magic focused one and level up with magic stat enhancing weapons.

In the long run yes, a lot of time is needed for this method to work, but it would definitely get people the unique character they wanted, and not at the price of having to make a completely different character if they screwed up at soem point, and leveled 1 to many levels with a specific weapon.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 11:26am by BourbonCowboy
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#72 Jun 08 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
MilkshakesOO wrote:
Quote:
It's no different than someone who has leveled PLD, WAR, NIN, and WHM to the cap, only the old system has room to be more freestyle, diverse, and intuitive. Just because the implication is there that the new development system will be more freeform and diverse doesn't mean you're going to max out your abilities in any one area faster than you would level a normal job to the cap.


No, I was making a point that in the newer systems.. everyone will be able to do every roll.. at the same time.


Determining who would be eligible for different kinds of loot would be up to the group to decide. It's no different from the way WoW works right now. With the exception of tokens for raid sets, any player of any class can roll on any piece of gear that drops. Players who get in the habit of rolling on gear that isn't suited to their role in a group tend to develop a very poor reputation very quickly.


If they make it like classes/jobs had no meaning in the traditional sense that we know of, it’s only a simple task of running so called a DKP count. I’m not sure if you have heard of a DKP system, but here is a brief explanation that I just took from wiki;

"Dragon kill points (usually abbreviated with the acronym DKP) designates a kind of currency which is earned by participating in endgame raids and spent by acquiring loot from endgame bosses. The term DKP is also frequently used to designate raid-level loot system in general. The most popular systems for endgame loot distribution are point-based (and thus DKP systems). The very first endgame loot distribution system was developed by the guild Afterlife in 1999 and named for the original two EverQuest end bosses, both of whom were dragons."

There are various DKP systems that can be used, not going into the detail of that, also you can have something called a loot council, where the LS officers or leaders keep track on who has gotten what and distributes the loot.

There is downside to this of course, if you are a solo player and enjoy "PuGing" instances, 6man (aka 5man in WoW) or even 12 or 18 man then you are in for a nightmare, since usually PuGs are based on picking up random people, just like when you make a normal xp party. As AureliusSir mentioned for a group of 6 people you can talk things over and hopefully the players are mature and can reach an agreement on who gets what, but for raids, as in 10+, it becomes tremendously difficult. WoW is a good reference on how PuG raids work, basically you can roll on whatever you can use and it has been accepted by the community as standard practice.

Also mentioned in other posts you can have a token drop or a "point accumulation" if you want. For example everyone will get a token or the "point" automatically, if a certain mob or boss have "loot". These can then later be exchanged for an item that you want from a NPC. That would solve the issue of not having to roll over items at all. The downside here is everyone will get their gear at a rapid pace, and rendering the instance/event useless very fast.

Also the thrill of winning a roll would disappear, not to mention that you are guaranteed 100% that you will get your item making the task more like a chore and removing the excitement factor.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 5:46pm by Maldavian
#73 Jun 08 2009 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Wouldn't it be hilarious if it is just an never ending merit trip?

Start, kill mobs, gain 1 merit point! Invest in say sword. Kill more, gain 1 merit point! Invest in 10 HP. Kill more, merit point! etc.

Imagine the people later saying 256 sword merits is not enough, they should extend the amount of allowed merits so people who want to merit can go higher!
#74 Jun 08 2009 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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i think they should keep it closer to XI.

not needing exp to level up? wth is that?

i dont like the idea of having to wear certain gear or weapons to learn stuff. that is going to force people into wearing specific gear at specific levels and you will just have a bunch of look-a-likes running around.

why should i HAVE TO buy a certain piece of armor or weapon?

and why in the world would they change the job system?

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 11:50pm by drkone
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#75 Jun 08 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Default
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I Did a lot of thinking on this subject and Think I have come up with a realistic idea as to what to expect from the job system in FFXIV.

From what SE stated about wanting to keep the jobs system and add to it and also the bit about your weapon helping your character grow this is what ive come up with.

Lets assume no matter what race and gender you pick or which nation you choose to start in EVERYONE starts off as the same exact job which would be a SQUIRE.

SQUIRE: Pre Reqs none.
Equippable armor: Cloth and Leather.
Equippable Weapons: Hand 2 Hand,Dagger,Short sword,Rod,Staff,Hand Axe,Mace.

Lets say these are all the paths a Squire can take
Hand 2 Hand = Fighter
Mace = Warrior
Short Sword = Red Mage
Staff = White Mage
hand axe = Hunter
Dagger = Alchemist
Rod = Black Mage

Say I Choose to make Dagger my first weapon and Skilled it up to level 10 I would Become an Alchemist and unlock that job and all of its abilities up to level 10 and have the option to continue it to level 100. This could also unlock the Alchemist job in the Job selection menu in your home.

Then I decided I didnt like Alchemist and went to my home got back on Squire and Equipped a rod and started beating on mobs. Level rod up to 10 unlocking the Black Mage job and the first spells. For the sake of argument lets say between levels 5-10 rod you unlock Poison Stone Blind and Water. After unlocking these spells they would be added to your black magic list and not come from the actual weapon its self but from skilling up said weapon.

(A particular spell on a particular weapon would cause a lot of problems ..... imagine you could only get the spell Tornado by killing FFXIVs version of Absolute Virtue... thats setting the player base up to fail. What would be cool however is if they did it where each jobs af weapon or relic armor gave them something to learn But this would be something everyone could Strive for.)

Headed back to your house and look at the job list it would say Squire Alchemist and Black mage with no job levels. Now for the tricky part. After Taking hand axe to 10 and deciding I like it I continue Hunter to 20 and Unlock new weapons that only Hunter can use. Lets say one of them is the WHIP.

(WHIP) Pre reqs Hand axe level 20 and having the FIGHTER class unlocked.
After Gaining the whip you take that weapon to 10 and unlock the job Beast Master and learn the Job ability Charm.

I think all jobs would require Pre reqs and weapon levels to attain would be pretty interesting and being able to level whatever job to its maximum would mean even jobs that you could get relativly early on wouldnt be underpowered if you choose to level them all the way to completion.

SUB JOBS

On to sub jobs.... I believe after you do a quest or two Sub Jobs Will be available to you but with much more freedom than was possible in FFXI. lets say the weapon or level cap is 100.

at weapon level 20 you could get a quest to open up subjobs for your main allowing you to use all of its abilities at half your main level. so using the examples above I could go

Beastmaster whip 20 sub Fighter 10

Lets say they really do add to this and allow you to take up another quest and unlock another set of job abilites and spells basically allowing you a sub job and a Minor Job level. Again using the examples above I could take this quest at say beastmaster or whip 50 and unlock the minor jobs available to me.

Beastmaster Whip 50 Sub Fighter 25 and Minor Squire 12

This would allow for tons of possiblities and almost assure not running into cookie cutter players.

Sorry for the long post just sharing my ideas.






Edited, Jun 9th 2009 1:39am by YashasThoughts
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SCH75 RDM75 BLU75 DRK75 PLD75 BLM70



#76 Jun 09 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Very nice ideas, and the more I think of it, the more another suggestion I made on another thread makes sense: What if the armour system is done in the form of the ffxii licencing board? Only this time, FFXIV uses a sort of licencing "wheel"?

Say we get some kind of "weaponskill-points or score" units from using your weapon to hunt stuff, missions, quests, etc; and the more (skillchains?) we do with our weapons, the higher the amount of "points" you can earn. You then in turn spend these points on YOUR very own personal licencing board or wheel (unique to each player) that gradually unlocks more and more armour/weapon (and even materia?) options as you continue your life in Eorzea. And as you open up better looking armour with better stats etc (which you "enhance" with materia), you are also unlocking weapons, weaponskills, crafting skills, summons (or espers?), damage skills (boosting the stats of the weapons you've already unlocked), and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Yashas idea also sounds valid and all the more possible that a licencing board/wheel) of some sorts could be employed: You pick up a sword, join a couple friends (one is using a mace and the other a greatsword). You all wack a few mobs and earn "weaponskill points" (you earn better points if you did well-timed skillchains). Then you all open up your individual "licence board/wheels" and invest those points into the path of the respective weapon your using; which in turn unlocks skills, spells etc particular to that weapon.

And after using your "points" to invest in a certain skill etc, you could continue to invest your points along a certain path on the wheel if you're trying to be, say, a Samurai with Ninja subjob skills. And perhaps, just perhaps, at the very hub or center of our licencing sheet will be "general skills" that we can gradually flesh out with points: chocobo riding, crafting skills, adventuring skills (jumping, swimming etc). What would be additionally nice is if you now decide to "change" jobs to become a white mage for instance, you could "de-invest" your points (with a penalty of sorts?) and restart your wheel along the whm path. I'm suggesting a penalty of sorts so that we can really think hard and carefully plan their character; plus it will force us to go out and gather more points if we wanted to "learn" new skills for a new job.

Like I said, the licence board thing came to me yesterday while I was posting up something else in another thread about armour/gear, so a lot of the jottings here was "cuffed" over from that thread. Yet again, if this has been suggested already on another thread, I'd be happy to continue this discussion there as well cuz I'm seriously psyched about speculating on how the ffxiv skills will work. The theories about the Last Remnant "Battle Rank" system is also very possible (I actually liked that game a lot) but I gotta rush outta the house atm so I can't give a logical comment right now until later.

Yeah, this game will be "ffxi (times five)"... hence the FFXIV.



Edited, Jun 9th 2009 1:42pm by LeoTarvion
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This is my future FFXIV Character and this is his theme...at least that's the tentative plan. Yep. (Concept Art of Rasler by the legendary Akihiko Yoshida) I asked for the Qiqirn to be added in FFXIV since October 2009 and we now have them! Yessss!



#77 Jun 09 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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after reading all these posts/interviews i can finally put my thoughts together on what i think they might do for ff14


what i came up with is a system where weapons don't give u ur skills persay, they only dictate what skills u can get.
for example lets say i want to level swordsmanship for a while, my rag tag team and i kill some big *** monster and gain like 100points or something (ill get to battle system later) which nets me enough to get some sword type skill like parry or something which in turn unlocks another skill advanced parry. bam im in the making of a paladin.
lets say i get the attackup skill and that unlocks an attack+ skill, bam war type class in the making.
now what if i keep leveling swordsmanship for a while and i get to a point where i have to choose between a defensive skill and an attacking skill. picking one stops u from picking the other and locks u out of a specific class set of skills. the problem with this tho is what if i want to play as a paladin one day and a warrior the next? i can't, BUT this way ur character IS your playstyle, u like attacking not defending.

for example with spells lets say you aquire a lot of points and want to play a destruction type magic class, so u start leveling offensive spells. BLM type class. picking a pure blm type job will lock u out of all white magic type spells.
lets say u hate casting offensive spells and go for more of a healing role. WHM type class. picking a whm locks u out from all blm type spells
what if u can't decide and go a mixed path? RDM type class. ur locked out of the advanced elemental type magics, but in turn gives u weapon type skills.

but after i think about it more this theory seems kinda thrown out the window since they said there will be solo play. but then again what if solo play is different from what we think? which leads me to the battle system.

since there wont be grinding in 14 what if all monsters are pretty much the killable at any level? for example my rag tag team makes quick work of small monsters and the ap/hour is really low and we want more of a challenge. so we go into the harder area and try to kill a larger/harder type monster which requires us to use strategy to beat it.
for example, hes really weak against ice which when casted freezes him for a couple secs which lets melee hack away at him and do extra damage. this type of combat brings an extra something into battle, it still requires u to have a specific class types but its much more open since now you can pick between rdm or a blm which both have access to an ice spell and there pretty much required for easy kills.
now what if in the same area or (since SE also said fights can be more then one guy against u at a time) in the same mob group theres another mob whos not weak against ice, but weak against fire? ull have to find a way to dodge, attack, and use the monsters weaknesses for ur own advantages all the while trying to kill 2 foes at once.
this to me is more like TEAM play. this forces u to pick a class that would help out your teammates and at the same time makes u very irreplaceable in that party. while at the same time asks u to be yourself since monsters can have many different tatics in beating them. you like playing a blm, so a party that needs blm spells will ask u to join them in killing hard mobs. if u like meleeing ull join a melee type party where u'll be targeting melee weak mobs only.
LS/friends banding together and forming 3-6 man parties taking on big mobs for extra points and items.

making all the mobs the "same" would suck since an elite party that band together often can pretty much kill the hardest mob around with little trouble given enough practice with the cheapest equipset. so this is where equips stats would come into play. getting the best spear (for example) u can afford gives u a huge increase in attack which lets u do more dps which in turn lets u kill faster (much like what the FF11's AH does now. pick w/e weapon u want and can use at that specific point in time. which does 2 things, gives u choice in variety and doesn't allow of monopolizing of equipments except for the best of the best and NM type equips), while at the same time decreases ur int like crazy which gives u a really low resistance to magic spells, and decreases your def to some degree which makes u a weak tank.
this would require u to do one of 2 things. specilize and join a party but at the same time makes u a crappy soloer OR do a generic build which becomes useless for parties and a decent soloer. since this is based on gear, u can swap out at any time and solo or party any time u want, but doing this however will ***** up ur skills.
ex. a specilized war in dmg has no need for healing magic since hes attacking but by getting healing magic locks him out of important attack skills.

now for monsters, we all no mobs who like using magic are extremely weak to physical attack and vice versa, same with players. so going an all blm party can have its benifits if ur all really good at the job, but one wrong move will lead to everyone dieing, and dieing a lot. while at the same time, going full melee parties will get u screwed up the bum since everyone in the group can't take magical dmg. this also requires u to mix it up a bit.

now theres a lot of problems with everything that ive stated. the big thing is what if u get bored of leveling a specific type of character and want out? the only solution i can think of is doing what ff11 did but different a little.
u can "save" ur whole setup of skills and stats in a "slot" (just like how ff11 did with the specific job changes) and start a new "slot" (with the same character) where u got 0 points, and 0 skills making u "start over" and pick another path. at the same time nothing stops u from trying a different build for warroir or something, so this way u can have like 10 warrior slots each with a different build and skill set. while at the same time, if u want to go back to a pervious job or skill set u can, all you have to do is change which "slot" ur one. thus u can experiment, solo, party, pick every job untill u find the perfect one. this gives u freedom to do w/e u want, but at the same time takes it away.

thats pretty much what comes to mind after reading everyones posts, and reading the interviews. i can go on forever but i need a break.

[edit]
the whole wheel never made sense to me, but they could be talking about a wheel of skills.
for example using a sword to a specific point unlocks 2handed swords or sword and shield. using a 2handed sword unlocks spears, using spears unlocks heavy spears like the halbred. all of which have specific skill sets to that specific type of weapon. 2handed swords are more attacking while shield and sword is more defensive.

sort of like an elemental wheel of sorts. siding with one type locks out other "opposite" types and unlocks more of the same type while at the same time giving u access to adjescent type weapons.

[edit2]
**** lots of ideas poping into my head.
this is for some of the posters above me.
if your learn spells thru materia, does that make sense? the dev of ff7 isn't near ff14.
if u look at the teaser site, the creator of ff1,2,3,11, and ff9,11 are the guys making this game. making a meteria type skill system doesn't make sense to me plus square is known for not repeating themselves in the ff series.
i think it will be more akin to ff11's merit system but with changes. which ur allowed a specific amount of skills for one group which unlock skills from the next group which are based on which weapon your using.
mixing sword type skills with staff skills seems like something you should be able to do to me, but usefull? mb not....... come to think about it... if knives give speed up bonus or delay down bonus of the like, then using a sword/axe/katana as a main with support knife skills would be pretty sweet. **** now that i think about it, u can do a lot of customizable things. but they would have to limit that somehow.


Edited, Jun 9th 2009 2:57pm by Leyego
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