Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

A method to the new job madness...Follow

#1 Jun 04 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
A lot of speculation is getting tossed around regarding jobs. I think we all feel connected to our jobs, but want more. It's hard in FFXI to aspire to max out more than a few jobs unless you're crazy and spend an unhealthy amount of time in game... or have been playing solid for 5 years.

I read one comment, however, that sparked a thought.

What if SE makes it much less of a grind to max out a job's abilities and skills... could we be moving to a system where the goal is to let everyone master more jobs.. (say 10-12), but they simply have a much larger list of jobs to choose from?

I'm sure the balance question is the first to come in... but FFXI is balanced in a way that's different from any other game, and I think they could do it.
#2 Jun 04 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
i think it could be interesting to have the jobs and leveling to be less important and less time consuming. it would be nice to have more emphasis on doing quests and missions and to have more soloable quests and missions. nearly 90% of the time spent on FFXI is dedicated to leveling jobs, and thats one of the bigger aggrivations to FFXI. if they made it based more about stories and objectives, i feel it would bring people together for an actual experience rather then having that feeling of dread and boredom tryin to find a party just so you can sit around and grind the same crabs or fish for hours on end just to get 1 lvl. it would also be nice to see a more complex job system. i personally liked the way the original FF games were with their jobs, in how you would start off as a thf, then later you would upgrade to a nin. maybe something similar to that, where you would take a base job, then depending on how you played that job, you would have the option to upgrade to an elite job.

i would definitely like to see a diversion from the way most MMOs done. i just dont like how there is so much emphasis on leveling. i would love to look for quests to do around town if there was more benefit to it. after lvl 10 hardly any of the mundane quests are even worth doing. and they are so time consuming that the time it would take to do one, you could lvl a job from 1-10.
#3 Jun 04 2009 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Personally, I'd rather do the exp leveling grind of FFXI rather than the quest quest quest "go kill 10 of these for me" from WoW.
#4 Jun 04 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
**
329 posts
Munkanidas wrote:
i personally liked the way the original FF games were with their jobs, in how you would start off as a thf, then later you would upgrade to a nin. maybe something similar to that, where you would take a base job, then depending on how you played that job, you would have the option to upgrade to an elite job.


I wouldn't like this at all, I think it would lower the amount of jobs you actually see played. There'd be no THFs because they'd all have changed to NIN, no WARs because they'd all have changed to PLD... basically it would cheapen the validity of whichever jobs got stuck with being a 'base' job. It worked in the first FF game just fine, I wouldn't want to see it in an MMO though.

I like an idea I've seen bounced around where you actually have a job level separate from your character level. In this way they could still give us the grind we all know SE loves to give in the form of character level, but make maxing out jobs a significantly shorter grind. I didn't mind 1-75 the first time, it was the subsequent times that became tedious.

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 1:39am by PopeyesOpenEye
#5 Jun 04 2009 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
**
572 posts
collinevan wrote:
A lot of speculation is getting tossed around regarding jobs. I think we all feel connected to our jobs, but want more. It's hard in FFXI to aspire to max out more than a few jobs unless you're crazy and spend an unhealthy amount of time in game... or have been playing solid for 5 years.

I read one comment, however, that sparked a thought.

What if SE makes it much less of a grind to max out a job's abilities and skills... could we be moving to a system where the goal is to let everyone master more jobs.. (say 10-12), but they simply have a much larger list of jobs to choose from?

I'm sure the balance question is the first to come in... but FFXI is balanced in a way that's different from any other game, and I think they could do it.


If you remove the grind of leveling up jobs you will end up like WoW, where leveling your char has absolutely no meaning and you can level up to max level in 2 weeks. They might as give you a level 80 char on the spot. People seem to forget that this is a MMORPG and that if the developer starts to remove the timesinks it’s like shooting yourself in the foot. Timesinks are in place for a reason and that is to occupy the player as much as possible. Or you can do as WoW is today and that is the average player only stay for 3 month and then leaves the game, that they specifically said they won’t make a WoW clone so that’s out of the question.

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 2:11am by Maldavian
#6 Jun 04 2009 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
39 posts
I agree that some degree of a time sink is need in a mmorpg.
Part of the fun in ff11 was getting to 75, being able to look back at the epic journey it took to get there.
now imagine hitting 75 in a week or two....
not too epic... 11 wouldn't still be around.
It isn't the time sink thats the problem, it was square being unexperienced with mmorpg's and not being casual enough for john doe who works a 8 hour job and goes to school etc.
now that SE is giving us ability to jump in and be self reliant from the get go I think 14 will in fact be the WOW killer talked about for years.
____________________________
You say this ferry goes to a place called Eorzea?
Heh... I suppose this is destiny...

MNK75 SAM75 NIN75 BLU60 THF54 RDM40 WAR40

Tienshinhan of the Ragnarok server.
RETIRED
#7 Jun 04 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
219 posts
While they did mention that they do not want a WoW clone, they also said they intend to make the game more casual friendly which insinuates less of a grind type game.

I would assume that sub-jobs are going to go away. Most of the grind of FFXI comes from leveling Not just your regular job (or multiple jobs), but the various sub-jobs required for each (melee DDs having SAM, WAR, NIN, DRG, DRK so that they can handle any situation for example). We may still be able to switch our Main Job, and it may be that we might be able to switch our Main Job at any time (ala FFV) outside of combat with some form of time delay (30 seconds or something maybe).

If the Party's White Mage dies and needs a Raise and someone else in the Party has a sufficiently leveled White Mage, just does a quick swap and Raise. This keeps the flow going and far less down time when people die.


This is just wild speculation though. We do know the game is going to be different than FFXI and WoW, it's supposed to be rewarding to all audiences and allow playtimes as little as 40 minutes to as much as several hours. This can only mean that the grind for both money making and leveling will be much less than FFXI current system without being as easy or at least similar to WoWs.
#8 Jun 04 2009 at 10:45 PM Rating: Default
*
101 posts
Well the guy who was interviewed stated he the sub jobs where staying because it added depth to the game. I seriously think that this game is going the way of tactics with the job wheel.
____________________________
"The Greatest Foe Lies Within Ones Self." Parasite Eve
#9 Jun 04 2009 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
219 posts
That wouldn't be that bad then... You keep the main job, but you can apply traits from jobs you already learned from.

Everyons starts as a Squire or Chemist (or similar classes like fighter and devout) and then unlocks jobs by mastering elements of previous jobs... I could see that working. I just don't think they are going to have the leveled sub-job thing is what I was getting at. The time required to level multiple jobs to be half the level of the main job is quite time consuming.
#10 Jun 04 2009 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
*
132 posts
But adds to the fun of FFXI and is also a part of being a party, since you learn about other classes. 37 wasn't exactly difficult to reach though so not much time is wasted.
#11 Jun 04 2009 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
*
101 posts
Where also forgetting that even if we have to lvl subs it will be quicker do to soloing being viable aswell as faster gameplay. I seriously think that subs wont be a burden. They know there crap and the stuff they arent completly aware of they have help with.
____________________________
"The Greatest Foe Lies Within Ones Self." Parasite Eve
#12 Jun 05 2009 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
**
441 posts
well i do hope they take a lot of the grind out of leveling and im glad they will also make it to a point where you can solo, freaking tiring as it is now leveling jobs even with level sync.
#13 Jun 05 2009 at 12:18 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
670 posts
I think it would be cool if it was Dragon Quest 7 was. Your character had a total level, but when changing jobs, each could go up to 8 or 10 rank. So say that even though i was level 30, I had 5 jobs maxed out and could use those abilities at any time. There were also cool job mixed skills. If you played fighter past rank 5, then switched to dancer, you would eventually learn sworddance technique.

The downside I see to something like this is that eventually you would learn everything and become in-game gods.
#14 Jun 05 2009 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
**
867 posts
Since they say its gonna be based on weapons I'm sure there gots to be some sort of points gained to get higher. If they do it like Xi and weapons skill up to a cap, I think we'd see ppl with all weapons maxed within the first 2-3 weeks. Instead of an experience system they said they're not gonna use, suppose you gain Attribute Points (AP) that will eventually lvl up your weapons skill.

For example, you start as a "Squire" and you get Dagger:10, Sword:20 and it will unlock "Knight". Say you continue "Squire" and get Dagger:20 and you unlock "Thief". Now to take thing further, you can continue Squire as much as you wish, or choose to go a different role and choose Knight or Thief. Taking Knight to Sword:40 unlocks Paladin and GSword:40 is Dark Knight. This seems a bit complexed but you can back track and do whatever you want.

Biggest worry for me tho is not that everyone is gonna cap all their weapons but if it happens in a small amount of time. They say weapons are the key factor to this game, but there gotta be something elsewhere for the "Growth" of the character.

Perhaps crystals might play a role in it, they said they will exist in this game in its own unique way so idk, just not knowing anything driving me crazy wanting more info. Perfect selling campaign, they got me sold with anticipation.
____________________________
Asyrian - 90 Drg/Mnk
Reisaki - 90 Blu/Dnc/Pup/Rdm
Majoga - 90 Pld/Nin
Belisi - 90 Sch/Cor/Whm


#15 Jun 05 2009 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
193 posts
Quote:
Well the guy who was interviewed stated he the sub jobs where staying because it added depth to the game. I seriously think that this game is going the way of tactics with the job wheel.


They never said subjobs would be in. Give me a link to the exact quote or don't spread misinformation.

Anyway in some of the interviews released today they stated that character growth would be a more "natural" progression, that the player chooses what he or she wishes to do each day and his or her character will grow based on how he or she plays. They also stated that "Weapon" was a key word in how character growth will work. Additionally, they stated that they attribute the success of FFXI largely to its job system, and want to work with the core ideas behind the FFXI system to make something entirely unlike the FFXI system.

I cannot really fathom the specifics of how this is going to work, but it's interesting to think about. Perhaps there are no specific "jobs" but the game builds a character progression based on how the character chooses to play? For example what weapons he or she prefers, what quests he or she does, etc. and from that a unique character type grows, just as a person naturally would, rather than locked into some kind of set linear progression. It sounds really cool in theory, but it's hard to say..

The only issue I have with this is would it be set in stone? Say my character ends up growing to excel largely at healing and not much else. Will I have to make a new character a la WoW to play a different type of role? I really, really hope that's not the case, and I don't think it will be as they stated that they wanted to continue the core concept of the FFXI job system.

Edited, Jun 5th 2009 3:59am by Shiinpu
____________________________
Shiinpu is a tarutaru from Phoenix!
he has a RDM at 75 but is currently on hiatus.
#16 Jun 05 2009 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
219 posts
FFXI made it so your one character can change what he or she did, no changing characters to be a different job. S-E knows this is what is popular due to the Job system being what made FFXI great in the first place.

I would assume that you will not have to make a new character to play something different, instead you will just have it so some weapons exclude certain job abilities or something similar. If you spent most your time as a healer, and then you equip a Spear, you can't really heal as much as before and you can begin working on more martial abilities related to the spear. Having a Sword might open up a few healing abilties, but no where near as good as if you were holding a staff. These are just thoughts of course.
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 24 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (24)