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No Jobs = No 2hrs?Follow

#1 Jun 05 2009 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok just basing if there are no actualy job classes if the weapon growth is anything like FF2 below.

FF2 Wikia[/link]]Final Fantasy II is unique in the Final Fantasy series for not utilizing experience-based levels. Rather than earning experience points at the end of every battle, each character participating in battle develops depending on what that character does during battle. For instance, characters who use a particular type of weapon frequently will become more adept at wielding a weapon of that type, as well as increasing in physical strength. Characters who frequently cast a particular magic spell will learn to cast more potent versions of that spell, as well as increasing their magical power rating. Hit points and magic points, similarly, increase depending on need: a character who ends a battle with only a small amount of health remaining might earn an increase in maximum hit points, and a character who uses the majority of their magic points during a single battle might increase their maximum magic points.


If there are no jobs then I would assume that they would do away with the 2hr abilities. Perhaps each race will get its own 2hr ability just based as a racial ability?

I'm not saying there are no jobs (since artwork does show BLM and WHM AF), just some food for thought about some type of desperation attack based on race in place of a 2hr?
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#2 Jun 05 2009 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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Hopefully their wont be any abilities on 2 hour cooldowns
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#3 Jun 06 2009 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
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This is a completely different game. While they may have some type of desperation ability, the concept of "2 hour" will likely be non-existent.

#4gaiaxzero, Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 1:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) only thing that i would see be needed would be invisible, chainspell, and benediction, the rest i hardly ever even seen being use. To be honest the most 2hr every use in ffxi was invisible and benediction.
#5dyvidd, Posted: Jun 06 2009 at 5:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I hope they go with my old suggest and instead of a summoner, every job, weapon, or whatever it is gets an avatar that is summoned every 2hrs. Instaed of staying out and eat mp, it would add the benefit of the 2hr and do some damage.
#6 Jun 06 2009 at 8:20 AM Rating: Default
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Even if there were jobs, that doesn't mean there is gonna be 2h, delete the 2h from your mind, i bet they're gonna remove it from FFXIV, 2hour one of the most useless things in FFXIV, i rather have a limit break system.
#7 Jun 06 2009 at 8:30 AM Rating: Default
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I hope there are no 2 hours regardless. I hope there are a lot more abilities, on a lot shorter cooldowns than in FFXIV. Maybe not as bad as WoW, but I do want it to be a lot faster paced than FFXI where, as a melee anyway, you're not really doing anything 90% of the time. And they did say they wanted to get it closer to real time than FFXI was.
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#8 Jun 06 2009 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Even if there were jobs, that doesn't mean there is gonna be 2h, delete the 2h from your mind, i bet they're gonna remove it from FFXIV, 2hour one of the most useless things in FFXIV, i rather have a limit break system.
Wow, this is so stupid. 2 hours were incredibly useful in FFXI. And limit break? Like in FFVII? They have that and it's called weapon skills.
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#9 Jun 06 2009 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Of course there will be some kind of special abilities on a cool down timer. Does it matter if the cooldown is exactly 2 hrs?
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#10 Jun 06 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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TheShadowWalker wrote:
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Even if there were jobs, that doesn't mean there is gonna be 2h, delete the 2h from your mind, i bet they're gonna remove it from FFXIV, 2hour one of the most useless things in FFXIV, i rather have a limit break system.
Wow, this is so stupid. 2 hours were incredibly useful in FFXI. And limit break? Like in FFVII? They have that and it's called weapon skills.


Was gonna say Limit Breaks = Weapon Skills. As for 2hrs the best comparison I can think of is in FFIX when you enter Trance Mode, just basically a desperation attack. I'm just saying that if there were no jobs then there could be no job specific 2hr ability. Suppose it could be replaced by a Race Specific Desperation attack, as for being used every 2hrs not needed. I think the only reason 2hrs in Xi aren't used that much but only during big battles is because the such long delay. I kno its gotta run through others minds as it does mine if I pop my 2hr right now, what if I'm really gonna need it before the 2hrs elapse? So then 2hrs end up going hours to days to weeks without ever seeing any use. A reduction down to every 30 minutes imo is still long, but might see more use?

But I don't like the thought of a Desperation attack going off of a timer, if anything there should be some sort of rage that builds up inside seperate from gaining TP for weapon skills. Maybe if they seperate TP to from weapon dmg you deal, and RP (Rage Points) from dmg you take regardless it be physical or magical. Of course RP will build a lot slower than TP, just think about how much TP you gain when you hit the enemy, and how much TP you gain when the enemy hits you, it could be something like that.
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#11 Jun 06 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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There might be a weapon-specific desperation attack...
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#12 Jun 06 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:


Was gonna say Limit Breaks = Weapon Skills. As for 2hrs the best comparison I can think of is in FFIX when you enter Trance Mode, just basically a desperation attack. I'm just saying that if there were no jobs then there could be no job specific 2hr ability. Suppose it could be replaced by a Race Specific Desperation attack, as for being used every 2hrs not needed. I think the only reason 2hrs in Xi aren't used that much but only during big battles is because the such long delay. I kno its gotta run through others minds as it does mine if I pop my 2hr right now, what if I'm really gonna need it before the 2hrs elapse? So then 2hrs end up going hours to days to weeks without ever seeing any use. A reduction down to every 30 minutes imo is still long, but might see more use?

But I don't like the thought of a Desperation attack going off of a timer, if anything there should be some sort of rage that builds up inside seperate from gaining TP for weapon skills. Maybe if they seperate TP to from weapon dmg you deal, and RP (Rage Points) from dmg you take regardless it be physical or magical. Of course RP will build a lot slower than TP, just think about how much TP you gain when you hit the enemy, and how much TP you gain when the enemy hits you, it could be something like that.
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Yeah, I was referring to the post I quoted about stupidness. Problem with race specific deals is what if I'm a Galkan Mage? Galka will be sure to have some sort of Strength, melee "desperation attack" so that's pretty useless if I'm trying to heal someone.

2hours in FFXI weren't there to be used every two hours. I know as a Monk.. 100 fists would have been incredibly overpowered to use every 30 minutes, but it was highly useful in fights where I knew we couldn't win without some heavy firepower and if it had a lower timer with proportionally lower awesomeness, you couldn't use it in those heavy situations as effectively.
____________________________
I will wake up at six a.m. again.
and I will find my way to the front door
like a soldier crawling through the smoking carnage.
smoldering bodies at my feet,
I'd love to stick around, but I've got someone to meet.
and I will put my best foot forward.
and I'll thank god I made it out of there
on the day when my new friends come.
#13 Jun 06 2009 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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For me personally, the idea of any ability on a 2 hour cooldown is a bit dated. I think the idea of having really cool abilities that are put on extended cooldowns so that they can't be abused is fantastic and adds a lot of flavor, and I can see it as being entirely possible and realistic for SE to include things like that in the new game. 2 hours is just a bit much, I think.

If they retain a system where you choose a job of some sort when you make your character, the uber-cool long cooldown abilities that are unique to each job are probably going to come standard like they were with FFXI. If they go for a more open approach to character development, you could learn new abilities similar to job-specific 2 hours as you meet certain criteria (ie. focus on melee attacks with medium/heavy weapons and no magic use whatsoever will eventually lead to what might look like a warrior cooldown. Focus on H2H weapons with no magic use might eventually grant you something like 100 Fists. Focus on offensive magic with little/no melee, no healing or debuffing magic and you end up with something like Manafont. Stuff like that.)

Either way, I think that giving players "special" abilities above and beyond the garden variety adds a lot of flavor to any MMO, and I don't think any MMO combat system is complete without at least one ******* button for every character.
#14 Jun 06 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Default
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lol, for me weapon skill had nothing to do with limit breaks.

I talk about a REAL limit break, not like FFVII's, but like FFX, you choose how the bar can get full (getting damaged, healing, making attacks) and then, when it's done you do a cool ABILITY that is way more powerful than JA or WS ever were.

Really, limit break and ws aren't the same, and never meant to be lol, to me 2h always been that sort of thing, but badly put in the game.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 2:03pm by Squallido
#15 Jun 06 2009 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Going to have to say I liked the 2 hr system in ffxi. The large cooldown made you think twice before resorting to use it, which made it get the last resort feal. In addition, it made you think of other options in big fights before using it, and since most 2hrs didn't last long you had to time it right. I feal the balance should be maintained with the panic ability similar to ffxi b/c lets face it. Whats the point woring about a critical mistake on you or your parties side or planing ahead on big fights if you continously or more frequently had the oh shiet button readly available.
#16 Jun 06 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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Um... just one question. Why is everyone saying that there will be no job system. As far as I saw in the interviews and such they Devs said that they were not removing the jobs system but the weapons will be more of a focus than the jobs. With this said Any and I mean ANY current MMO has a certain set of classes or jobs. To not have a set job is kind of a fail because that means you can get your character to do pretty much anything at anytime... So the removing of a job system would take a huge chunk of the game structure out not to mention nearly impossible for people to seek a party. If you have to ask every single person what their set of skills are w/o already knowing by a standard "Name" it makes making a party tedious and unwanted. Now, as far as 2hr's are concerned I say that the majority of the 2hrs from FFXI were useless and I do not believe that they should return.

EDIT: No set experience based leveling does not mean there are not jobs. Just want to toss that out there.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 2:58pm by TheFlyingGoat
#17 Jun 06 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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TheFlyingGoat wrote:
Um... just one question. Why is everyone saying that there will be no job system. As far as I saw in the interviews and such they Devs said that they were not removing the jobs system but the weapons will be more of a focus than the jobs. With this said Any and I mean ANY current MMO has a certain set of classes or jobs. To not have a set job is kind of a fail because that means you can get your character to do pretty much anything at anytime... So the removing of a job system would take a huge chunk of the game structure out not to mention nearly impossible for people to seek a party. If you have to ask every single person what their set of skills are w/o already knowing by a standard "Name" it makes making a party tedious and unwanted. Now, as far as 2hr's are concerned I say that the majority of the 2hrs from FFXI were useless and I do not believe that they should return.

EDIT: No set experience based leveling does not mean there are not jobs. Just want to toss that out there.


SE has already said that they want FFXIV to be more about character development and less about leveling a specific job. They've also said that they like the diversity offered by the current job system, and want to expand on that diversity. There have been standalone FF titles and other RPGs that have broken away from the fixed job system and it added a great deal of diversity to the game. When most people here are talking about a jobless system, they understand that they're talking about a hypothetical situation but in no way, shape or form is a jobless system not feasible.

A jobless system doesn't mean that party roles aren't going to go out the window or that it will be excessively difficult to assemble the group. It could actually make assembling a group easier because of the potential of each character to end up a hybrid of sorts. Instead of specifying that you're looking for a <insert healing job here>, you just say that you're looking for a healer. It would do away entirely with the whole concept of the "flavor of the month" job. It would do away with job/subjob cookie cutter builds. You get to know the content, you get to know what is required to succeed in the content, and you build your group based on people who have the tools to succeed in the content. There would no doubt be straightforward ways to indicate or specify that the healer you're looking for should have access to a certain level of abilities so that you don't show up to find your tank taking 200 damage per second and the best spell in your healer's ******* can only recover 30HP every 2 seconds.
#18 Jun 06 2009 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not really sure if they will really incarnate again as "two hours" but I do hope they return in some way shape or form. I love the epicness that those last ditch super abilities can give you.
#19 Jun 06 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I just hated the 2 hours because so many of them were completely useless and very very very situational. The only couple i can think of right of the bat that were absolutely awesome and totally useful were whitemage benediction and the monk 100 fists or whatever it was. Those were party savers.

Some useless ones were like the rouges perfect dodge which was never that useful unless you are going to die cause you pulled too much hate... and then again a spell or bomb will still kill you AND you just used your ability and its gone for the next 2 hours...

I think if they can make them super useful like the whm ability things will be fine with me.
#20 Jun 06 2009 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I talk about a REAL limit break, not like FFVII's, but like FFX, you choose how the bar can get full (getting damaged, healing, making attacks) and then, when it's done you do a cool ABILITY that is way more powerful than JA or WS ever were.
I love how "real limit breaks" are the ones that didn't even come first. Wouldn't the originals be the "real" ones?

Quote:
Some useless ones were like the rouges perfect dodge which was never that useful unless you are going to die cause you pulled too much hate... and then again a spell or bomb will still kill you AND you just used your ability and its gone for the next 2 hours...
I believe THF was the term you were looking for, but Perfect Dodge was pretty useful. You say it's only good when you're going to die... that's true of all 2 hours. Example, mob is way too strong, THF SAs for hate, uses perfect dodge and runs to the zone so the party can get away. Saved me a number of times.

Quote:
SE has already said that they want FFXIV to be more about character development and less about leveling a specific job. They've also said that they like the diversity offered by the current job system, and want to expand on that diversity. There have been standalone FF titles and other RPGs that have broken away from the fixed job system and it added a great deal of diversity to the game. When most people here are talking about a jobless system, they understand that they're talking about a hypothetical situation but in no way, shape or form is a jobless system not feasible.

A jobless system doesn't mean that party roles aren't going to go out the window or that it will be excessively difficult to assemble the group. It could actually make assembling a group easier because of the potential of each character to end up a hybrid of sorts. Instead of specifying that you're looking for a <insert healing job here>, you just say that you're looking for a healer. It would do away entirely with the whole concept of the "flavor of the month" job. It would do away with job/subjob cookie cutter builds. You get to know the content, you get to know what is required to succeed in the content, and you build your group based on people who have the tools to succeed in the content. There would no doubt be straightforward ways to indicate or specify that the healer you're looking for should have access to a certain level of abilities so that you don't show up to find your tank taking 200 damage per second and the best spell in your healer's ******* can only recover 30HP every 2 seconds.
I'm getting more and more excited about FFXIV every time I think about the job system the way you describe it. I really hope it turns out to be a very natural and intuitive way of making your character. Technology is so far ahead of what it was when FFXI was made and they did a really good job on that with what they had, so I trust SE to put some effort into this one. This MMO is really the first "second" MMO to be made with the more recent technology, right? EQ2 was a while ago, and I think all the other MMOs are the first ones put out by their respective companies. I may be wrong, but it's interesting to consider.
____________________________
I will wake up at six a.m. again.
and I will find my way to the front door
like a soldier crawling through the smoking carnage.
smoldering bodies at my feet,
I'd love to stick around, but I've got someone to meet.
and I will put my best foot forward.
and I'll thank god I made it out of there
on the day when my new friends come.
#21 Jun 06 2009 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
I hope they go with my old suggest and instead of a summoner, every job, weapon, or whatever it is gets an avatar that is summoned every 2hrs. Instaed of staying out and eat mp, it would add the benefit of the 2hr and do some damage.

Example would be Warrior's avatar is Titan. You summon him and does quake, which grants mighty strikes and damages the enemy. Then he goes away.
That concept is too bland and too simple.
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#22 Jun 06 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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If there are no jobs then I would assume that they would do away with the 2hr abilities. Perhaps each race will get its own 2hr ability just based as a racial ability?

I'm not saying there are no jobs (since artwork does show BLM and WHM AF), just some food for thought about some type of desperation attack based on race in place of a 2hr?


They said jobs were coming back, but they would be different from FFXI.
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