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#1 Jun 06 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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OK, how many will agree that the way FFXI's economy has gone is pretty sad?
I hope this time around in FFXIV SE considers some of the aspects of rare/ex and items that can be sold, as well as crafting.

IMO, if there are timed spawned NM's they should only drop rare/ex items. NO rare, NO non-rare items at all. This would stop a lot of NM manipulation for currency. If SE wants to make some items drop from NM's that are not rare/ex, then they should make them drop from "pop" NM's alone.

To explain a little deeper, IMO every NM that can be "popped" should require a "quest" item or something. No more waiting for Despot to spawn & fight a bunch of people for the claim just to get an item to "pop" a different NM. ALL items that are required to pop an NM should be questable by any person. To me this would minimize high priced items on the auction house by allowing anybody to quest for those items.

At the same time, there will still be those items that are "exclusive" & once someone gets that NM claim and gets the drop, they can move along and let someone else try for the claim now.

What do you think can help the next games economy function better? Discuss
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#2 Jun 06 2009 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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The main problem was RMT, if RMTs wouldn't there some items wouldn't have gone R/E.

But still, i liked how some items had only a way to get them, making missions like AF and such, it was lovely.

But let's face it, RMTs would never be gone 100 % (even though the game could be 1-2 years with no RMTs, soon or later it would have) non rare/ex is a paradise for them. And you can find out checking FFXI's issues at this, there were some sky items for pop that weren't rare/ex, and what happened then? RMTs came to sky, and some linkshells started to buy these items with real money / ingame money (i still remember a shell in ragnarok that always did that, don't remember how was named Stellar's linkshell) either way that ***** up the economy.
#3 Jun 06 2009 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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There are a lot of players that enjoy the idea of NM camping. However, the game would ideally be tuned so that players log in and think to themselves, "Hey, maybe I'll go camp <NM guy> today...that sounds like fun." If at any point in time it evolves on a regular basis to, "Godammit day 4 camping <NM guy> here for a stupid piece of gear that I'm only trying to get because it's the only piece of gear for the next 20 levels that gives me any kind of noteworthy stat increases and if I don't have it I got non-stop grief in groups," something is broken.

Other games have rare named spawns that drop nice things, but those games are tuned in such a way that you don't have people spending hours/days camping the mobs because they feel they have to. Named spawns in WoW tend to drop good random gear (ie. the item budget means that if you get the right category of item, it'll be a good piece of gear for you...not outstanding, but good. If the category is not one you can use, you can sell/trade the item if you want.) LOTRO uses a system where the named spawn mobs don't drop any truly astounding gear, but they do drop (with 100% frequency) specific crafting materials that you can then use to make something, trade to someone to have something made for you, or sold. I forget exactly what they're called, but they're a standard component in the "good" crafting recipes for that level range. The main thing is, no one named mob is the only mob that drops that component. There are lots of other named mobs in that level range in various places throughout the world which makes it impossible for a single player to dominate the market on that item, and extremely difficult for RMT to monopolize access to that item.
#4 Jun 06 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I can make a few observations as to FFXI's economy (from a casual player's perspective):

The problem I had is that a lot of tasks that would earn you some money became less and less useful as inflation increased. It became more productive to just sell certain items (that you'd farm) on the AH, rather than just going around killing monsters to level. The gap between farming and normal leveling grew to the point where it was hard to do both at the same time (with some exceptions).

The availability of items in general fueled this problem. A lot of the economy is player-driven, and it's hard to find useful items that NPCs sell. Decent equipment could sometimes be gained from quests or other sources (like trading in conquest points), but a great deal of it came from farmings mobs (and crafting with their drops) and camping NMs.

I respect those who enjoy doing these tasks, but I felt like the amount of time that had to be invested in them was a bit too much. Ideally, I'd love to see a lot of the tasks in FFXIV become more rewarding. Good equipment of all levels should be more readily available by exploring, killing monsters, and doing quests (all of which solo or in a party). I'm not asking for the best equipment, either. I know that MMORPGs are supposed to be time sinks, but it felt very un-Final Fantasy-like to me, in which you'd normally be able to explore dungeons, kill monsters, complete quests, open treasures chests, and just in general make have fun while making money as an afterthought.

Since it seems exploration is getting more of a focus in FFXIV, I really hope dungeons become more interesting. I'd love to just take a party into one and kill everything (instead of having to focus on a single type of mob) while finding treasure chests. And let's not forget the fun of bosses waiting inside of dungeons... I can't seem to find enough of that playstyle in FFXI. Most of the time, it's picking a spot (say, in Garlaige Citadel) to camp and pull one or two kinds of mobs to you. Things like coffers and treasure chests are an afterthought.
I felt like the Goblin Maze Mongers almost had part of the formula right, except for the fact that you can't do it as often as you'd like. Still, I have a lot of hope that they'll figure out something for FFXIV.
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#5 Jun 06 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd say the NMs should be in a dungeon instance that anyone could go into with a group, the NM is made way harder, and the drop is rare/ex.

One thing that WoW got right.
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#6 Jun 06 2009 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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mortalabattoir wrote:
I'd say the NMs should be in a dungeon instance that anyone could go into with a group, the NM is made way harder, and the drop is rare/ex.

One thing that WoW got right.


Na, let make them similar to the heroic badges in WoW, put the items on a NPC, run a couple of instances and buy out your items, that is even better.
#7 Jun 06 2009 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Na, let make them similar to the heroic badges in WoW, put the items on a NPC, run a couple of instances and buy out your items, that is even better.


I don't get that. How would that effect NM drops and fighting RMT to get them? It sounds like you're talking more about storage.
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#8 Jun 06 2009 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Maldavian wrote:
mortalabattoir wrote:
I'd say the NMs should be in a dungeon instance that anyone could go into with a group, the NM is made way harder, and the drop is rare/ex.

One thing that WoW got right.


Na, let make them similar to the heroic badges in WoW, put the items on a NPC, run a couple of instances and buy out your items, that is even better.


Not only no but **** NO.

Kindred Seal and Beastman Coins >>>> Heroic Badges.
#9 Jun 06 2009 at 4:09 PM Rating: Default
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NOTE: this is a gernalization. i know there are kids who do understand the economy and adults who dont. this is a generalization. if i mention an age and you fall into this age, dont feel offended if there are bad stuff mentioned with that age...it is not directed at you and im not trying to insult anyway


i persoanlly think the only probelm with XI's econ is the fact that we're making it

in some cases that isnt so bad. there are plenty of knowlageable adults and late teen players who understand economy well enough for it to benot so bad


the problem is the <just as an example> 14 year olds on here who DONT understand this

i dont think that a game rated T or lower should have a player driven economy. i think XIV <and XI for that matter, though it is a big change> should have an NPC driven economy rather than a player driven one. we can still have auction houses, dont get me wrong, but i personally believe we'll be a lot better off if any item beyond certain rare items and all exclusive items could be bought from most NPC's <with the exceptions of items that come from certain places. if theres, say, a food that has a certain place in the name, it should only be able to be bought from there imo, or from an AU. furniture and certain equips should also not be buyable except through AU/bazaars (aka they have to be crafted or quested) that should help> i believe that would solve a lot of problems. maybe even make some lower level quests that give more than subpar equip and a tiny <almost, if not entirely, negligable> amount of gil. either decent equip and/or a dcent amount of gil

pro:

-it'll feel a lot more like FF and an RPG in general. in the two years i played the game <i quit a while ago...like around the time PUP and BLU and stuff were first added> i never once bought a simple potion. yet in every single non-online FF ive played i always keep as many as possible on me. though i understand that with WHM doing its job they arent as necissary, but still.


con:

-less player incolvement so though it'll be more like a consol RPG, it'll be less like an MMORPG

pro:

-now there wont be jacked up prices. the prices are all set <perhaps they can still vary depending on the day of the week and your fame and stuff> so that you dont have to spend 1000 gil on a item one day, and 100000 the next because of supply, demand, and jack asses

con:

-with stagnent prices the need for gil drops or perhaps could increase if they cost too much. things may perhaps be too easy/hard unless SE gts the prices juuuust right, right away. it'll be difficult balancing it to where people worry enough about gil that they have to go out and do a quest or farm something or do a craft but not so much that ALL their doing is spending their playtime making money <unless they choose to>

pro:

-if they make the prices correct, crafters can still either A)make money from personal bazaars/AU sales B)save money by crafting it themselves instead of buying it. and because of stangent prices, this could lead to the return of all mobs dropping X amount of gil again <like the good ol days> to where you cna make decent gil off just killing <though they'd still need to limit this, but still> monsters, whether they drop stuff or not. im not saying make it huge, just make it garunteed from all creatures. with higher levels bringing in more gil obv. and perhaps you NOT getting gil if you are significantly stronger than them

con:

-again unless they do it correctly its possible that crafting will just be a hobby or a slight money saver rather than a full blown job and money maker. possibly leading to it being useless. getting gil of creatures could <and probably will> also hurt crafters. the only solution i could see if this comes up is to give a string a of items that only crafters can make and at fairly high levels as well as making sure crafters at the very least save money by making it themselves <even if they dotn amke money till they make those exclusive items later on> i think that would help

theres more but i THINK i hit th major stuff

i strongly believe that a T rated game and lower shouldnt have a player driven economy <at least not to the extent XI is> i just forsee too many problems.i also see problems with them changing XI now, its too little too late for that. but if they designed XIV with the intention of the players only mildly effecting the economy , and did it right, then it would be sooooooooo much better imo

what do you all think?
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#10 Jun 06 2009 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I think NMs can still remain in the open world, but they should definitely be Kill to Spawn, similar to Leaping Lizzy, but I would remove the spawn time requirements. Just make it a 1% chance that the NM can spawn from any place holder. Then you add a 1% chance that a Rare/EX item that you are looking for drops from him.

I would also make it so NMs drop 2 or 3 useful items for different jobs so that everyone has a reason to camp these NMs.

#11 Jun 06 2009 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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I've never played an MMO where use of the auction house wasn't 100% voluntary. If you're at least somewhat social and know how to behave, you can usually bypass the auction house altogether and never go without. The auction house itself is a convenience (and a welcome one, imo), but as long as a game is tuned so that you can meet your most basic expenses (ie. travel costs, class training/spell scrolls, etc.), anything else is gravy.
#12 Jun 06 2009 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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jayfly wrote:
OK, how many will agree that the way FFXI's economy has gone is pretty sad?


I somewhat agree. The FFXI economy was good for the way the game was played. ie, most of the gear you get is crafted. I personally like a wider variety of gear and I don't want to craft all of it or buy it from the AH. I don't mind a good portion of it being crafted though...

jayfly wrote:
I hope this time around in FFXIV SE considers some of the aspects of rare/ex and items that can be sold, as well as crafting.


I never liked the idea in WoW that most of the good stuff you could craft was only good for yourself. Very poor incentive to level a craft.

jayfly wrote:
IMO, if there are timed spawned NM's they should only drop rare/ex items. NO rare, NO non-rare items at all. This would stop a lot of NM manipulation for currency. If SE wants to make some items drop from NM's that are not rare/ex, then they should make them drop from "pop" NM's alone.


I would only agree to this if the NMs actually dropped stuff you could use right then and there instead of 10-20 levels ago as is the case most of the time in FFXI.

jayfly wrote:
To explain a little deeper, IMO every NM that can be "popped" should require a "quest" item or something. No more waiting for Despot to spawn & fight a bunch of people for the claim just to get an item to "pop" a different NM. ALL items that are required to pop an NM should be questable by any person. To me this would minimize high priced items on the auction house by allowing anybody to quest for those items.


I'm not a fan of forced spawns. I'd much rather see the public quest system from Warhammer used for NMs.

jayfly wrote:
At the same time, there will still be those items that are "exclusive" & once someone gets that NM claim and gets the drop, they can move along and let someone else try for the claim now.


You kind of already said this earlier.

jayfly wrote:
What do you think can help the next games economy function better? Discuss


I'm not totally against the current economy of FFXI. The only thing I would like changed is the normal gear you get should be easier. Your first time through FFXI is pretty hard since you have to stop every once in a while and get the gil for your gear as neither the gear nor the gil comes naturally. I'm perfectly fine with the uber items costing so much as you get some sort of sense of accomplishment when you get them. Take the elemental staves. The normal ones are pretty cheap...at least you can get them without too much effort. The HQ staves are very expensive but you don't necessarily need them at level 51 (I think that's the level they're available) so saving your money to get them doesn't bother me.
#13 Jun 07 2009 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
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IMO a lot off both good and bad views have been pointed out but we can all agree on 3 basic factors.

1) people with more playtime have the ability to make more cash, thus they have the ability to stimulate the market. we saw this with RTM. It was their jobs to make gil and sell it. now as we saw this caused two problems. Firstly people who played less had to work that much harder for gear at the expense of fun. Secondly, people who happen to have the gear like SH for example were often accused of selling or buying gil. This also gave way to the in game Jeuno casinos as well as other bits of havoc. flame wars and the like.

2) People who are crafters often crafted due to the market at the time and most crafts were hard and expensive to level. Thus the AH became a highway for a lot of fluctuation based on the region. I liked this idea, but, I feel that because of the AH the bazaar ability became somewhat not as useful. I would like to see a better use for that in particular. Crafters who can sell their wears nicely without hassle will further stimulate the market. however I also think the need to repair an item via another Crafter may be a nice addition. We work long and hard to make our levels count and at the end of the day I want to know my craft will be worth something to me in an economic crisis someplace.

Number 3 is the actual value of the gil in question. The economy will have ups and downs. it's our job as crafters and as an economy to keep it stable. RTM will always be around and this time i feel now that SE knows this we need to have other ways to make cash. for example, vendor trash on WoW can be worth something at least, More so than final fantasy. I'm not saying make gil incredibly easy to get.. I'm just saying give us more ways to make it. repeatable quests were nice but when you need 1 mil for an item 500 gil or 1k seems kinda piddly.
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