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Preemptively Combating RMT in FFXIVFollow

#52 Jun 06 2009 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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I have an idea! Let's have a goblin bountyhunter EVERYWHERE! Because that was such a great idea originally and totally made the game better! :D


This.


You go with a low level character to farm x item that sells really nicely, and BAM, Goblin Bountyhunter in your face.

You go to bot some fancy-doodle monster that drops an uber sword thingy thats worth a lot of money, and BAM, Goblin Bountyhunter in your face.

You make an attempt to trade gil to another player (because the only people who trade or accept gil are gilsellers and gilbuyers) then BAM, Goblin Bountyhunter in your face!


A foolproof solution.

God, Im ****...
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#53 Jun 06 2009 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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insanekangaroo wrote:
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Who is talking about cheating the rules of supply and demand? You're talking about putting restrictions on the number of trades a legitimate character can make as a means of combating RMT.


you are. you think that by making gil available in big amounts will solve the problems of inflations in the prices of rare items. you are wrong.



I naver said make gil available in big amounts. If you think I did, be a sport and quote the post where I said it. I'm talking about diversity in itemization.

Quote:
putting restrictions (in some way) on all players (legitimate and gilsellers) is the only way of combating RMT in game. WOW has tried to do this by making alot of "better than common" items rare/ex (binds to player), which totally prevents trading of a large number of items. another way would be, as I suggested, to limit the number pf player-player trades per day.


Oy.

There's a difference between a minor restriction and a major one. "You can only trade with another player <x> number of times/day" is a major one. Rare/Ex on drops from world-spawn NMs went a long way to reducing RMT activity in FFXI. Since I've demonstrated pretty clearly that restrictions on the number of times you can trade in a day would have no impact on the ability of RMT companies to deliver their goods in a timely fashion, it becomes a pointless restriction that would serve no purpose other than to **** off the players. If you're going to impose a restriction of any kind, you have to be able to demonstrate that it is producing the intended result. World spawn NM drops -> Rare/Ex demonstrated tangible results. Trade restrictions would not.
#54 Jun 06 2009 at 6:42 PM Rating: Default
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This whole equipment argument fails because RMT have and will continue to level naked all the way to 75 just as fast as the player in your merit party who has spent 30 million gil on their equipment. When you fight a mob, sure the minor improvements help from equipment but you need to realize that a mob's level compared to yours is what really ups your accuracy or any noticeable damage. Equipment is overrated by a lot of people. All equipment with stats does is allows you to over hunt stuff in my opinion. A character could melee it up in all NQ gear all the way to 75 and still be fine.

HQ gear is cool to have but unnecessary if it may be your first job to 75 or you're a casual player and can't make gil to buy that Amemet+1 etc. It's all about your level versus the mob's level, period. People just like to over hunt. And this isn't meant to be offensive to anyone just stating facts.
#55 Jun 06 2009 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Some of the larger companies are US based, should they start blocking US IPs as well? It's no secret China has the most RMT activity, but a lot of the larger companies are actually based in the US unless that's changed the past few years. So SE can do all they can, as long as it's a MMO, RMT will be a problem, FFXI actually isn't hit that hard with RMT these days compared to many others. The only big problem is the /tell situation now.


While some firms are US based I thought most of the ACTUAL gil farming came from the Chinese 'sweat-shops' seen in that Youtube video. If I'm mistaken, sorry.

If SE really wanted to stamp out the RMT, banning credit card numbers would help.
#56 Jun 06 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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GeneralZazarg wrote:
This whole equipment argument fails because RMT have and will continue to level naked all the way to 75 just as fast as the player in your merit party who has spent 30 million gil on their equipment. When you fight a mob, sure the minor improvements help from equipment but you need to realize that a mob's level compared to yours is what really ups your accuracy or any noticeable damage. Equipment is overrated by a lot of people. All equipment with stats does is allows you to over hunt stuff in my opinion. A character could melee it up in all NQ gear all the way to 75 and still be fine.


You may be right, but you'll never convince even a small segment of the player base of it. Improving the gear of your character is an integral part of any RPG, MMO other otherwise.
#57 Jun 07 2009 at 12:02 AM Rating: Default
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AureliusSir wrote:
GeneralZazarg wrote:
This whole equipment argument fails because RMT have and will continue to level naked all the way to 75 just as fast as the player in your merit party who has spent 30 million gil on their equipment. When you fight a mob, sure the minor improvements help from equipment but you need to realize that a mob's level compared to yours is what really ups your accuracy or any noticeable damage. Equipment is overrated by a lot of people. All equipment with stats does is allows you to over hunt stuff in my opinion. A character could melee it up in all NQ gear all the way to 75 and still be fine.


You may be right, but you'll never convince even a small segment of the player base of it. Improving the gear of your character is an integral part of any RPG, MMO other otherwise.


I have to agree with GeneralZazarg, the main focus point of FFXI was never really gear, compare to WoW which has a extreme gear progression advancement threw the game.
#58 Jun 07 2009 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Maldavian wrote:
I have to agree with GeneralZazarg, the main focus point of FFXI was never really gear,


Really? Funny you should say that...I knew an awful lot of people that kvetched profusely about everything they had to go through in order to get gear in FFXI, but they did it anyways because they felt they had no choice. Doesn't sound like a game that's not about gear to me...
#59 Jun 07 2009 at 12:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think we'll ever be rid of RMT and I know I don't want to wade through all the crap they lay out in order to stop them (and eventually fail). Just kick out any credit card number associated with buying or selling and hire a GM to look over areas with known RMT farm. If you give them the ability to look at the world map like you do on google earth it would be easy for one GM to do it for each server. Heck, I'd do that...sounds fun.
#60 Jun 07 2009 at 12:20 AM Rating: Default
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Well is imposible a company can keep 100% clean a game of this RMT sh*t

But i hope and i bet Square will start work since DAY 1 vs RMT, and they dont will let this guys destroy our game like the first years of FFXI

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 4:21am by Shakca
#61 Jun 07 2009 at 12:23 AM Rating: Good
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I think that overall they've done well for FFXI. There's only a few things I would like to see in FFXIV:

1.) Easier reporting. The GM call system takes awhile, and isn't all that streamlined to begin with, being buried in three or four layers of menus. The STF hotlink, especially for those playing on a console, may not even be available without leaving the game.

2.) Restrict trial accounts. This should be implemented for FFXI, too. /tell should not be available unless a person is on your friend list. WoW had the foresight to do something similar; it makes far more sense.

3.) Ban the buyers, as well as the sellers. Square is MUCH more lenient on gilbuyers than it is on gilsellers, since the gilbuyers are likely to be customers. Doesn't matter. If you put the fear of god into even the thought of buying, people won't be so inclined to try it, and the seller business will go down dramatically. The argument is often made that you could send a million gil to some random person you had a grudge against, and they could get wrongfully banned, but I sure as **** know that if I randomly found 1mil in my DB, sent from Skgskjdf, I wouldn't accept it. I'd report it. Once you click accept, it's on you.

4.) Create a passable website, with strong utility. How often do we see advertisements on FFXIAH? KillingIfrit? Square opens up the possibility of a large base of users for RMT to advertise to when they more or less force the community to use non-official sites for their information. They need to take a hint from how successful Battle.net is.

Just my two cents, anyway.
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#62 Jun 07 2009 at 12:34 AM Rating: Default
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AureliusSir wrote:
Maldavian wrote:
I have to agree with GeneralZazarg, the main focus point of FFXI was never really gear,


Really? Funny you should say that...I knew an awful lot of people that kvetched profusely about everything they had to go through in order to get gear in FFXI, but they did it anyways because they felt they had no choice. Doesn't sound like a game that's not about gear to me...


Seems your friends were a bunch of loot whores, at least for me and my friends it was not a gear issue, we were having fun and enjoyed ourselves, rather than chasing gear or cry over how hard it was to obtain it. Gear upgrade was just a bonus along the way, a small reward, but in the end what makes the game good that you are having fun with your friends rather than have a fully pimped character standing all along in front of AH for display.
#63 Jun 07 2009 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Shakca wrote:
Well is imposible a company can keep 100% clean a game of this RMT sh*t

But i hope and i bet Square will start work since DAY 1 vs RMT, and they dont will let this guys destroy our game like the first years of FFXI

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 4:21am by Shakca


FFXI didn't have an RMT problem let alone them 'destroying' the game the first 2 years of service.
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#64 Jun 07 2009 at 5:19 AM Rating: Default
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SE banning buyers would be like a dream to me, that would really be awesome.
#65 Jun 07 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Here's is an idea Dont party or let the gilbuyers into your LS ... I hate gilbuyers worse then the seller ... We all know if your lvl 70 lvlin up w/o sky your 1st job and you have ubber gear your a GILBUYER...Gilbuyers keep gil sellers in action
.. So look for these signs.. **** I played PSU on 360 for a while and even there kids sell crap online...geez get over it people it's going to happen unless all the item's are R/EX.....
#66 Jun 07 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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sgthill wrote:
Here's is an idea Dont party or let the gilbuyers into your LS ... I hate gilbuyers worse then the seller ... We all know if your lvl 70 lvlin up w/o sky your 1st job and you have ubber gear your a GILBUYER...Gilbuyers keep gil sellers in action
.. So look for these signs.. **** I played PSU on 360 for a while and even there kids sell crap online...geez get over it people it's going to happen unless all the item's are R/EX.....


...Wow. If this is the mentality people have no wonder people run around accusing everyone with above gimped gear but below end-game explosion gear of buying gil.



Edited, Jun 7th 2009 7:29am by Theonehio
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#67 Jun 07 2009 at 6:23 AM Rating: Default
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that's wrong, some people had UBBER gear because they worked on it, i know people that were 1 month farming/camping just to get a piece of UBBER gear that improves him a lot, i myself also did this.

Gilbuyers are easily detectable though, they get drops from Nms with low drop rate always, you know what i mean... hehe also they like to show of the gear they haven't worked for, or a friend of him gave him 10 million GIL bofore leaving, and he says that's why he has all that gear without spending time getting it.

But don't letting in GBs doesn't work, when probably there's a sack that buys gil himself or hack.

The best thing SE could do is banning Gilbuyers

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 10:24am by Squallido
#68 Jun 07 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Maldavian wrote:

Seems your friends were a bunch of loot whores, at least for me and my friends it was not a gear issue, we were having fun and enjoyed ourselves, rather than chasing gear or cry over how hard it was to obtain it. Gear upgrade was just a bonus along the way, a small reward, but in the end what makes the game good that you are having fun with your friends rather than have a fully pimped character standing all along in front of AH for display.


I'm just going to start rating down all of your snide, condescending posts every time I see them. I don't mind disagreement, but when there's always a shot to be made you're not contributing anything useful...you're just being a twerp.

It's one thing if a player subjects themselves to a monumental grind because it's what they want to do. It's another thing if they subject themselves to it because they feel that the community requires it of them. I can remember a good friend of mine setting his alarm to get up at 4am so that he could camp a Fafhogg timer. I can remember another friend farming gil non-stop for over a month because he loved the game, he loved his job, but he couldn't get through an xp party without someone giving him grief and cutting him down because he didn't have a hauby.

I still remember the extended bout of LS drama that boiled up over a loot ***** and a Charybdis spawn and the lengths people would go to to justify why being a jerk about loot was ok when in reality it was just desperation at finally seeing a coveted piece of loot make its way into the quartermaster window. I've seen loot whoring aplenty throughout all of the MMOs I've played, but that took the cake.

It wasn't just "my friends" that felt compelled to undertake what they felt were unenjoyable grinds in order to meet community demands to gear a mid-high level toon and when a game's itemization and reward system create that kind of a scenario, you're begging for a heavy RMT presence.
#69 Jun 07 2009 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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worked hard at asking daddy to buy the spoiled kid gil lol ok all I'm saying you can tell gilbuyers from people that do actualy work hard to get the best gear and items ...
#70 Jun 07 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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sgthill wrote:
worked hard at asking daddy to buy the spoiled kid gil lol ok all I'm saying you can tell gilbuyers from people that do actualy work hard to get the best gear and items ...


Unless you personally follow someone from day one to the final day of their relic I'm pretty sure you would accuse a relic holder of being a gil buyer based on your logic.
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#71 Jun 07 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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not at all but some did I'm sure...
#72 Jun 07 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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there will always be lazy players in the game.

there will always be greedy people who are drawn to the game to make money.




they will find a way.
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#73 Jun 07 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm with the let RMTs into the game crowd. This is because it was so much fun to MPK them and get their loot. IDK how many times I did that crap, but it was fun back in the day. Its not so much that I want RMTs. Its that I have more of a "bring it on" sorta attitude. Eventually, they would call their buddies in and the fun would end, but oh the memories.

On the other hand, cleaning out the RMTs from the get go would be good. I just didn't like how when they finally did do something the economy went crap. So if they do something, they need to do it from the start.
#74 Jun 07 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
I want to touch on the crafting system that was mentioned back on page 1. I don't have the exact quote, but the person basically said if you go the WoW path and not offer any craftable items that are better than instance-obtained items, you ensure the craft doesn't have any money-making potential.

WoW does offer craftable items that are better than instance-obtained items. However, the kicker is these items are all Bind on Pickup... meaning as soon as the item is made, it's bound to the crafter. There are also craftable items that require a crafting skill to be at a minimum level in order to be used. A good example of this would be any of the master weaponsmith weapons. Not only are these items Bind of Pickup, they also require the character to be as master weaponsmith in order to be equipped. This prevents people from leveling blacksmithing up to master weaponsmith, making the item they want, and then ditching the craft altogether.

The end result is these items aren't in demand. They are indeed better than gear that can be obtained from instanced-content... but because of the massive overhead required in getting the appropriate crafting skill high enough to craft said items combined with the time requirement to obtain the materials to craft said items, most people don't want those items. In essence, the instanced-content gear is easier to get.

As for the topic of the thread... you can't do much to get rid of RMT. It boils down to something very animal and basic. Wherever there is money, there will always be money laundering (which is basically what RMT is). The only way to get rid of RMT is to not have an in-game currency. However... not even that will get rid of RMT... because then you'll end up with RMT selling items for cash instead of gil for cash. So the only way to get rid of RMT at that point would be to not have an in-game currency AND not have any kind of items of any kind. And even that probably wouldn't stop RMT because if you get rid of in-game currency and has no items of any kind... what is there to compensate for those things not being there? Chances are whatever is there to compensate for that lack of in-game currency and items... RMT can capitalize on it.

No... if S-E wants to get rid of illicit RMT... they need to not make an MMORPG and instead make a MMOSG (Massively Multiplayer Online Social Game) akin to Furcadia. Furcadia has no RMT... and that's because in Furcadia, there is no point to RMT. There is nothing to sell in Furcadia and hence there is nothing to buy. There is no advancement, so there is no sense of competition between players.

Of course... I can't imagine people paying a monthly fee to wander around a Furcadia-esque game doing nothing but talk to other people and make interactive dreams for other people to wander through....
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