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one thing i'd like taken out......Follow

#1 Jun 07 2009 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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I'd like sneak and invis spells to be taken out of the game entirely if mob detection by sound/sight were to be maintained in FFXIV.

sneak/invis often did more harm than help. ppl find their fastest way to battle areas, mob spawns, and ignoring everything in between. missions/quests end up being "just getting there with sneak/invis by yourselves" rather than "adventure in a group".

as ppl relied more heavily on oils and powders in XI, mobs between the start and the "goal" are often untouched and ppl just stealth their way through zones. ppl would get left behind, get lost, die, and was just a big mess. you just miss out on all the other stuff in the zone, whether be it the environment, the mobs, or the routes through the zone. ppl could just zip through XI zones with sneak/invis and not knowing anything more in-depth about the zone.

of course the above is just a general statement, and does not apply to all zones/quest/missions, etc.
#2 Jun 07 2009 at 10:29 AM Rating: Default
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agreed.

i was just thinking the same thing the other day. like, if people played FFXI more like you're typical final fantasy game with regards to missions/quests. that is, to fight you're way through the dungeon to get to whatever boss/npc/??? you need to get to. instead people just throw up sneak and try to skip all the other stuff, even when the mobs are only EP-DC and provide 0 threat to a full party, even if you manage to link a whole bunch of them. it just added to the frustration in the end, because there is alway, always that person who gets lost/killed/what have you.
Though, i don't think sneak/invis should be excluded 100%, as it would make getting through certain areas solo impossible, there should definitely be limits put in place to make it a less desirable option than clearing the zone on the way to your goal.

and really, unless you're in a 100% competent group where everybody has brought their own form of sneak and invis, and aren't stupid enough to get themselves killed somehow, clearing the mobs would actually be the faster way to get things done, because as soon as somebody dies (and they often do) you've just added a whole lot of time and frustration to you're night.
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#3 Jun 07 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I would agree with the condition that they drop things 10+ levels higher (or whatever the "this will eat my face off" power gap will be in FFXIV) than the "exp mobs" in your way.

edit:

whoops - meant that they take out the excessively high level mobs.

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 4:12pm by KacesofCaitsith
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#4 Jun 07 2009 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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Oh I certainly hope they keep them. Some of the best times I had were those I spent exploring the world with invis/sneak. I remember going all over the place way before my level permitted even xp parties. Limit them to self only spells if you want and eliminate the oils and powders but don't take them away...it was extremely enjoyable exploring with them.
#5 Jun 07 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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I second the notion of wanting to keep them. Getting through to Norg with the always present fear of death. That was so kickass.
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#6 Jun 07 2009 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I would like to be able to fight my way through dungeons like in the old FF games, but as many said before, only if the mobs in FFXIV aren't painfully hard to get past.
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#7 Jun 07 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Interesting idea. Of course they'd have to tone down the penalties for dying a lot (which I'm guessing they're going to do anyway) and make some of these trips a lot less difficult and time-consuming.

I remember that the missions in the tonberry temple and some other similar ones were pure **** for me, and that was with sneak/invis. The stress of keeping those bloody potions on at all times with the consequence of mass death and destruction if someone slipped up wasn't fun at all. Making it a) necessary and b) possible to fight your way through things like that would have been much better.
#8 Jun 07 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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If they keep the single-target versions, at least have the decency to add AoE versions as well.
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#9 Jun 07 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Keep them.

What if I want to go camp a similar NM to charby? I have to get a full party to help me get down there? Hey guys...thanks for escorting me...I'll call you in 18 hours when Charby is up? No, people have better things to do w/ their time. I've done missions both ways, sneaking and murdering every single mob in our path. Just find a group that likes to play how you do and stick w/ them.
#10 Jun 07 2009 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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The first time you go through a dungeon or try to reach a goal, it's a grand adventure, exciting and new. The 20th time, you just want to get from point A to point B. Is it sad? Sure. But making people fight their way through every time they want to get somewhere is going to cause more frustration than anything else.

My only complaint about Sneak/invis is how unreliable it is. I hate casting it only to have the "Sneak is about to wear off" message pop up after a few seconds. It doesn't make it challenging, it makes it annoying.
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#11 Jun 08 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Keep them.

What if I want to go camp a similar NM to charby? I have to get a full party to help me get down there? Hey guys...thanks for escorting me...I'll call you in 18 hours when Charby is up? No, people have better things to do w/ their time. I've done missions both ways, sneaking and murdering every single mob in our path. Just find a group that likes to play how you do and stick w/ them.


i dun think it's quite fair to draw on an example in XI and applying it to a potentially new and different scenario.

Quote:
The first time you go through a dungeon or try to reach a goal, it's a grand adventure, exciting and new. The 20th time, you just want to get from point A to point B. Is it sad? Sure. But making people fight their way through every time they want to get somewhere is going to cause more frustration than anything else.


I agree with this despite what I said originally.....but maybe they can make dungeons challenging not just by sticking mobs that are way overleveled than you are and giving you a hard time to get through.

the thing is...with ppl having had past experience in XI using stuff like oils and powders....ppl will try to look out for counterparts in the new world of XIV...maybe they'll do the sneak/invis way even if it's their first run through the zone....just because "oh, i used to do that anyway in XI, no different here"
#12 Jun 08 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
The difficulty is that in ffxi, certain areas are so dense with aggroing mobs that it is impossible to get through solo or small party. They also are filled with mobs that will be IT or even greater than IT for a suggested level range, so even an alliance may struggle.

Add to that mobs that detect by sound, so they can hear you in a full 360 degree radius around them, and it becomes a bloodbath. You'd have to balance density very well to make this work without it becoming "die 4 times before you get to camp"
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#13 Jun 08 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Good
While having to fight your way through zones would be cool the first time or two, I don't want to have to consider fighting my way through entire zones over my hundreds of trips through them over the years. Getting around would become such a hassle, I'm sure I would end up quitting in no-time.
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#14 Jun 08 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I feel sneak and invis is a requirement unless you are specifically meant to fight the mobs in your way or you have a faster method of transportation (like a getaway vehicle). For example, being able to ride a Choco through a dangerous area like Ro'Meave even though you will probably get aggro and get knocked off if you are unlucky. The fear is there so you will most likely still travel in a group. You will also do your best to avoid most mobs, however you can still make it to your destination in a timely manner.
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#15 Jun 08 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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i liked sneak/invis. sometimes i just wanted to do a quest for myself or travel to a new city without bothering anyone else with my troubles. sneak/invis helped me do this.
#16 Jun 08 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I would prefer if it stayed in truth.

It made crossing places much more exciting, sure there was risks, especially those that aggro to magic, but overall the pros outweigh the cons to me.
#17 Jun 08 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't mind if sneak/invis stayed in the game. I would rather see mobs not chase you across the entire map all the way to the zone. At some point they need to stop pursuit. No more train to zone!
#18 Jun 08 2009 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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even if you say that removing sneak/invi would allow ppl to see the environment.
i think most peoples wouldn't be willing to gather a group to go explore, maybe the firsts players could to see if there's anything worth, and the hardcore players who woudn't mind dying ten times solo just to see the last bit of the map
#19 Jun 08 2009 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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The game originally didn't have the spells, they were added later. I doubt they will remove them if they felt they were a must have spell based on player reactions in the first place.
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