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"There are no levels in FFXIV"Follow

#52 Jun 10 2009 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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One of my dislikes of FF-XI was seeing my equipment fall off when I'm helping low level friends in a BC or when I change to a low level job. I wonder if the new game will have a similar ore-few system based on skill level? Will your skills be dropped if you go into a BC type event in the new game.
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#53 Jun 10 2009 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
These threads are going to be very entertaining to reread in a few years.

netglen wrote:
One of my dislikes of FF-XI was seeing my equipment fall off when I'm helping low level friends in a BC


I'm guessing you quit playing FFXI a while back? This does not happen anymore. You can wear your level 75 gear even when you are level-capped at level 25.


Edited, Jun 10th 2009 6:36am by VawnLakshmi
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#54 Jun 10 2009 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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It's getting close to 2 years now since I moved on. I would have never thought they would ever change the equipment falling off rules. Does that still apply if you change to a L.1 WHM and try to wear high end gear?
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#55 Jun 10 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Good
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what if they just took the "one character can lvl all jobs" system that we know from ffxi a bit further?

i could imagine that your character would generally be able to fulfill every job at "the same time".

for example:
if you're acting mostly as a "whm" your according skills will increase. while the skill increases new abilities/spells are unlocked.

when changing your playstyle to "blm" the according skills will increase and new spells/abilities will be unlocked while the skills you already earned on your "whm" will remain.

this would mean that you can be a war/blm/whm/whatever at the same time. the job/role you're currently specializing on would be only defined by wearing according gear (or maybe there'll additionally be something like stances similar to what we know from scholar).

sigh. sometimes i wish english was my native language. what i wrote seems a little weird even for myself but i just don't know how to express it better.
#56 Jun 10 2009 at 5:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd love to see it as a branch system... start off at a certain point, and collect points/items to move up in your specific class. Once you reach a certain point, you can rank up and follow a specific path. Maybe something along the lines of Grunt->Warrior->Dragoon->Dragon Knight (I know, lame, but you get the idea).

At points it would be interesting to see you be able to go one way or another depending on actions you have taken (sort of like a really advanced Ogre Battle/Tactics style progression).

Either way, I have a feeling that it will be quite advanced and will take some time to get used to... also a lot of trial and error in the beginning to see what works well :)

Is it time to Beta test yet?? >.>
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#57 Jun 10 2009 at 5:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Maybe its more along the lines of depending on what attributes you raise will depend on what abilities you can learn.

For instance if you want to be a healer you have to raise your "mnd" attribute inorder to unlock cure abilities. And after you unlock cure it can continue to get more potent as you keep putting points into "mnd" attribute.

Also the same with gear, your attributes will determine what types of gear you can wear.

Or maybe we will have the option to choose from all basic tier abilities and based on what we use the most and how well we play will determine our attribute increases.

I just hope there will be no problems with job class inbalance or job classes that get left in the cold or made to do things that they are not best at inorder to get invites. Even at that I hope they do a good job at making the game soloable and all events instanced so groups are not taking turns.

Another huge timesink in ffxi is waiting for hours for a group to get done with an event so your group can get a turn. We should be able to logon play an hour or two and feel like we actually did something instead of standing around waiting.
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#58 Jun 10 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Maybe they just plan on putting in a Level Sync type function from the beginning as a fundamental part of the game, so that you can party with anyone at anytime, anywhere, and only your skill levels will make a difference. Or maybe the skill levels will be temporarily capped like with Level Sync.
#59 Jun 10 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Well... they still need to have attributes of some kind; STR, AGI, ect. These will likely be the stepping stone to advancement - like Elder Scrolls Oblivion, but without the levels. I just hope they don't have the jobs developed like an elder scroll class (ie you do this more than that and your STR goes up!). I'd rather pick my class and go from there - not "oops, i jumped to much this time and now my caster is super agile ><"

Another "i hope not" is the zoning aspect similar to WAR. I hope they don’t progress you thru a series of quests, gaining set abilities then getting the boot to the next zone, unable to return. But that would be an easy way to look for that healer... if they are in your zone, then they're capable.

Reading about the lack of exp/levels was a downer. I play MMOs for the extremely large amount on content, upgrades, accomplishments, ect... It would just seem at first (and i hope I’m wrong) that taking exp/levels out of the game, your taking more things away that can gratify your game play, aka accomplishments.
#60 Jun 10 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Not sure if anyone here played SWG way way back when it came out. They had no lvl system. It was a great game till Sony messed it up.

Biggest problem was you capped out FAST and they had not included any end game activity to do once you finished capping
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#61 Jun 10 2009 at 8:38 AM Rating: Decent
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The Best Leveling system today is EQ2:
Level=New Spells + Abilities, ability to equip new gear
AP(much like merits)=character development
There are also upgrades to spells that can be farmed or crafted.

SE is known for not reinventing something that already works. They will keep the same concepts, just improve their functions and basic mechanics. AS many of you may know in EQ2 you get Achievement points after gaining levels, exploring areas, completing quests and killing rare monsters etc. (read: Doing more that just mindless grinding). You gain EXP from killing and questing (read: Grinding). AP is by far more important than EXP. Which makes gaining levels less important than gaining Achievements that develop your character as whole.

I expect SE do implement something similar because casuals can gain levels easily but hardcore players will be able max out there stats through the same methods available in the past (read: giving up on real life).

I hope they steal from everyone, I hope they steal EQ2's leveling system, RAF and rate of content development. I hope they steal WoW's instances, travel system and PvP(lolz?).
#62 Jun 10 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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FnPikey wrote:

I hope they steal WoW's instances, travel system and PvP(lolz?).


Instance already stolen, but travel system needs improvement I agree. PvP won’t be implemented according to devs.

Edited, Jun 10th 2009 12:43pm by Maldavian
#63 Jun 10 2009 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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netglen wrote:
It's getting close to 2 years now since I moved on. I would have never thought they would ever change the equipment falling off rules. Does that still apply if you change to a L.1 WHM and try to wear high end gear?
It only works when your level is being capped. (IE: Level Sync, BC, CoP, etc...)
#64 Jun 12 2009 at 5:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If there are no levels, how do characters advance?

Although Final Fantasy XIV will eschew the traditional leveling system in favor of something new, there will be parts of the Job System that make it over. Most importantly, they wish to retain the concept of being able to switch roles and work on one job one time and another job the next time. At this time, the developers are unable to give any specifics.


Source: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=18415

Switching jobs confirmed!

:D
#65 Jun 12 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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It's still very unlikely that the job system is going to work in such a way as in XI where you switch to a job and then strengthen that job exclusively. More likely your "job" will be based on, as others have said, what skills you develop, but you'll be limited in how many skills you can "equip" at any time. You can change them, and in effect, change your job.

As for how all of this works out in grouping, with any luck (and likely given the more casual nature of this game), you won't be so pressed to find certain dedicated jobs. Then if you are, perhaps you can look at people's menus and skill sets by searching their profile. There are dozens of ways it can work, but you have to think outside of FFXI.

I'm imagining decades ago some person who plays Pong and only Pong, and then someone comes along and tries to tell them their ideas for Super Tetris. It all must sound unfathomably complicated to someone who's stuck in the world of Pong.

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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#66 Jun 12 2009 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I'm imagining decades ago some person who plays Pong and only Pong, and then someone comes along and tries to tell them their ideas for Super Tetris. It all must sound unfathomably complicated to someone who's stuck in the world of Pong.


I think that those two sentences just summed up the core of 70% of the debate on these forums o.O
#67 Jun 12 2009 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Man, I'm just used to that kind of response. Even within FFXI, it never ceased to amaze me just how unimaginative and closed-minded people could be. Excellent new job ideas, many of them rooted in FF lore, were overwhelmed with negative feedback like "not a unique enough role" "too difficult to balance" "I wouldn't want to play it and for some reason think it would therefor be better if no one could play it." Really just the most pathetic excuses someone can come up with, and for what? To ***** the people who did want to play as a Geomancer? To make the game Black Mage Fantasy XI?

I would have thought of all things that people would have been all about getting *new jobs* but consistently found that kind of negativity, all because they simply couldn't imagine it in a positive way-- pessimistic right out of the gate.

And when you try to translate that into core gameplay differences, it gets even worse. FFXI had fair to good gameplay at the time of its release, but by today's standards, it's bad gameplay. That's only because there's so much more that it could do but doesn't (well, if it weren't still running off the PS2 at least). So if FFXIV isn't completely different, I can't see how it won't be a relative failure.

I guess what really amazes me is that people are playing a -fantasy- game but seem to have no concept of fantasy. I would think the people who immerse themselves in these kinds of games would be the most creative and inspired people, but maybe having creativity spoonfed to you just hinders its growth. Or maybe it's just some kind of dumb.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#68 Jun 12 2009 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
Man, I'm just used to that kind of response. Even within FFXI, it never ceased to amaze me just how unimaginative and closed-minded people could be. Excellent new job ideas, many of them rooted in FF lore, were overwhelmed with negative feedback like "not a unique enough role" "too difficult to balance" "I wouldn't want to play it and for some reason think it would therefor be better if no one could play it." Really just the most pathetic excuses someone can come up with, and for what? To ***** the people who did want to play as a Geomancer? To make the game Black Mage Fantasy XI?

I would have thought of all things that people would have been all about getting *new jobs* but consistently found that kind of negativity, all because they simply couldn't imagine it in a positive way-- pessimistic right out of the gate.

And when you try to translate that into core gameplay differences, it gets even worse. FFXI had fair to good gameplay at the time of its release, but by today's standards, it's bad gameplay. That's only because there's so much more that it could do but doesn't (well, if it weren't still running off the PS2 at least). So if FFXIV isn't completely different, I can't see how it won't be a relative failure.

I guess what really amazes me is that people are playing a -fantasy- game but seem to have no concept of fantasy. I would think the people who immerse themselves in these kinds of games would be the most creative and inspired people, but maybe having creativity spoonfed to you just hinders its growth. Or maybe it's just some kind of dumb.


Simply put nowadays in an MMO people go for fact, figures and optimal performance.

If a class doesn’t meet that criterion it will be doomed, sad but true. The idea that you choose a job _because_ you love it have been lost to you choose a job that is _needed_.

I remember when FFXI was released in NA, no one gave a **** about those. People were just happy playing the game and trying to reach max level together with their friends.

Of course, as the game progresses, people tends to go for that direction.
#69 Jun 12 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Default
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Hear hear! I think there are an incredible amount of people who are closed minded. AkA those who say if they dont get a taru they arent gonna play. I know the races have been announced I just dont see why so many creative and fresh ideas get shot down. Im like man if you want a game to be that much like FFXI just play FFXI. If you dont want new character models, jobs, lvling system, party system, music, scenery, you cant transfer your character then dont play the game. No one is forcing you to play FFXIV just stick with FFXI. I personally am super dissapointed they chose the same races from FFXI because there are over 30 games to choose from and so many cool character models and they chose the same 5. ><
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#70 Jun 12 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's getting close to 2 years now since I moved on. I would have never thought they would ever change the equipment falling off rules. Does that still apply if you change to a L.1 WHM and try to wear high end gear?


No, Changing Jobs will still cause the "Equipment falling".

However, since the introduction of Level Sync, you can still wear High End Gear in (Low-Level) Parties. The Gear's Attributes will adjust to the level you're synched to.

Edited, Jun 12th 2009 3:00pm by Bestevaer
#71 Jun 12 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Hear hear on that too. It seems like a lot of people just want their FFXI+1. Same game in a different world with prettier graphics. We've already got FFXI! We don't need FFXI-2!

But I really don't believe for one square second that all of the races have been announced. They HAD to announce the FFXI races right out of the gate to prevent backlash and grip the interest of XI players. But they're saving new races to surprise us with later. It would be astronomically foolish for them to not include at least a FEW new races. I mean, it would be like a doctor who didn't know how to put on a bandaid. You can't make this your profession and then not grasp something so incredibly obvious.

But I wouldn't be surprised if some of those new races are from games like Crystal Chronicles and The Last Remnant, for example. They've lately really been trying their hand at new race designs, and I think they're fishing for what people like. Unfortunately I think that if they go that route, they might miss the mark. I will say that I think Sovani are actually pretty **** cool. Not much a fan of Yama or Qsiti though. I think Yama are pretty good as far as fish people go (not very), but I think you could do far better for frog people than the Qsiti, personally. I don't really mind the idea of frog people on its own though.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#72 Jun 12 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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But then how would other players be able to easily find what they are looking for in a group? If I'm looking for a damage dealer, I don't want to have to /check all his skills and abilities and make sure he's going to fill the role I need. That seems like it'd be a bit of a hassle.


If it's too much of a hassle you can always solo.
#73 Jun 12 2009 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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You wouldn't have to check ALL of his skills anyway. A quick look should be able to tell you approximately how strong of a damage dealer he is.

Personally I don't think it's a bad thing if it's too hard to find exactly what you're looking for. It encourages you to not be so judgmental and nitpicky. It will almost certainly not be like in FFXI where inviting a subpar player will completely kill your event.

I like to see an approach that encourages people to just play with their friends anyway.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#74 Jun 12 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I can easily see a system in place based solely on your skill level of your chosen weapon. This is backed by SE's comments on weapons being tied to progression. If weapons are not the sole progression method there could be some sort of "job point" (ala the original FFT) system that allows you to strengthen your character in a limited context. There also could simply be an "experience system" with a fancy-pants new name. One things for sure, you have to "grow" your character so that means there has to be some way to measure that growth in solid numbers.
#75 Jun 12 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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the first thing that popped into my head when they said no exp/level was FFX

Now they said there will be Jobs, but hypathetically speaking, what if it's not what we think.

Take FFX sphere grid. Whats to say they don't do something like this,

Every fight gives us a chance of gaining 1 more sphere grid spot to move to. When we start a character we're given a choice of certain avenues on a grid to grown off from. Each grid has it's paths you can choose to follow or make a hybrid between a few. In the end eventually you will grown in all your stats and skills to a choosing of your own. Give you ability to enhance each attribute by a few points, and also gain skills, but even more like ability to use cretain types of gear not necessarily "primary" to your job type.
#76 Jun 12 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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The first thing that popps into my mind when i read about this stuff is Eve-online, there are no levels, experience points, level caps or jobs, and characters are 100% customizable.
What separates new players from veterans is how much skill points they have and the equipment they can use which is based on your skills. A 5 year old character might have more skill points and be able to do more stuff then a 1 year old character, but that 1 year old character might have specialized his skills to fit 1 role and cause of that be a better player to fill that role then the 5 year old character who's done a little bit of everything. I'm not suggesting FFXIV will be like Eve i'm just saying there are endless possibilities once you ditch the strict level and jobs system.

#77 Jun 12 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I dunno, SE has a tendency to use old features from previous titles, and alter it somewhat so it feels like new, yet familiar.

Someone posted earlier that it could be something like the Sphere Grid system in FFX, and I actually hope it will be something similair like that.

In that grid system you're not really levelling experience, one just learned Abilities by obtaining Spheres. These Spheres were mostly obtained by defeating Mobs.

I have a hunch that this system will be implemented in the game. Also because FFX was truly a "casual" RPG, and that is what they're aiming for.
#78 Jun 12 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure if I am sold on the idea that true levels are purely arbitrary like some have been posting.

To me, having levels is a straightforward and efficient way of understanding which mobs to attack, which mobs not to attack, among other things.

#79 Jun 12 2009 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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Efficient, but boring.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#80 Jun 12 2009 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Darkfall kind of leveling system? Level a weapon and unlock new abilities with a certain skill level in that weapon?

Or like Diablo stats earning that u place on different areas like

VIT
AGI
STR
MANA
HP
etc...

hmm who knows it will be fun either way, but what i am worried about is what happens when you die?... obviously you cant lose xp or delevel. I rather enjoyed that part of the game.. without it it just becomes so meaningless for your toon to die.
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