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Aren't "Blink Tanks" supposed to be Rogues/Stealthers?Follow

#1 Jun 07 2009 at 3:38 PM Rating: Default
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This really never made sense imo...avoiding attacks in general are supposed to be survival traits of Stealthers/Rogues to save their bacon, right? In FFXI, I would imagine a Ninja to fit this stealther role and I would expect stealthers to be strong themselves in numbers but "weak" for a non-stealth group.
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#2 Jun 07 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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When SE thought up Ninja and Utsusemi, "shadows" for evading damage. I think they never thought it would be used as a tanking strategy.

The player base turned it into a tank.

Some love it, some hate it. But I still think Paladin and Warrior were supposed to be the tank jobs.

I for one hope FFXIV make any ninja type job be more what it's supposed to be.

I agree, a Ninja is more a stealthy DD, more like Thief, rather than a face to face tank.
#3 Jun 07 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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I would think the stealth aspect is to save themselves, not others. Ninja's are supposed to be selfish greedy bastards!
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#4vedina, Posted: Jun 07 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) not really, just what todays mainstream wants you to believe
#5 Jun 07 2009 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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It was a happy mistake. I think they'll keep it and we'll see some form of a blink tank in XIV.
#6 Jun 07 2009 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
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mpmaley wrote:
It was a happy mistake. I think they'll keep it and we'll see some form of a blink tank in XIV.


I agree, blink tanking is actually something that I don't think any other MMO has done and ended up working really well in XI. Its a cool idea and I hope to still see it in XIV.
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#7 Jun 07 2009 at 6:52 PM Rating: Default
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I really see blink-tanking as one of the game-defining traits of FFXI. No-one else has it or has tried to implement it. The coolest part is that most people believe it was completely unintended.

I'm sure the developers never realized the extent to which the playerbase would put utsusemi to use when they released it. It seems obvious that someone would figure out that you could tank indefinitely if you could keep hate on yourself, but these are SE programmers we're talking about =/

Utsusemi changed everything... it made new strategies possible, it allowed things to be done that were unatainable. **** it put all other tanks out of business for quite a while, forcing SE to rebalance the classes (hai2u pld buff!)

I'm not quite sure if we'll see ninjas able to provoke, or melees to cast utsusemi in FFXIV, and my heart tells me we won't, but man it was sure cool to watch the evolution of an innocent damage mitigation tool turned into a game-breaking ability with a little bit of player creativity.
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#8 Jun 07 2009 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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Rogues/Stealthers are usually assumed to be evasive, not "blink tanks". And sure enough in both WoW and FFXI Rogues/Thieves are very evasive.
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#9 Jun 07 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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If downtime become trivial, it'd easy to tolerate blink tanks. Even then, it should through a more tank-like ability. What made me really hate blink tanking is that it was something that was inherent to a job that is NOT supposed to be the mob's center of attention through concept alone. That and it broke game balance, as already mentioned.
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#10 Jun 07 2009 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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It's all a conspiracy.

Ninjas were really intended for sit back and cast ninjitsu mage-style.



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#11 Jun 07 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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the FFXI community has a way of taking jobs in different directions from what the devs had in mind. NIN and SAM are the two biggest examples. Nin was made to be a support type DD with enfeebs and the ability to make blm nukes stronger by lowering resistance. Sams were intended to be the 3rd tank job (War and Pld being first 2), if you don't believe this, just look at their AF, along with war and pld has the most Enmity+ on it. What happened was that we caught onto the fact that by spamming utsu and burning tools like no tomorrow nin could tank, and the high spike damage that sam used to maintain hate could be manipulated into heavy DD. SE even tried to make sam into a better tank with seigan+third eye buff, but the DD mentality of the job has kept it off the official tank jobs list.
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#12 Jun 07 2009 at 9:43 PM Rating: Default
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Demonye wrote:
the FFXI community has a way of taking jobs in different directions from what the devs had in mind. NIN and SAM are the two biggest examples. Nin was made to be a support type DD with enfeebs and the ability to make blm nukes stronger by lowering resistance. Sams were intended to be the 3rd tank job (War and Pld being first 2), if you don't believe this, just look at their AF, along with war and pld has the most Enmity+ on it. What happened was that we caught onto the fact that by spamming utsu and burning tools like no tomorrow nin could tank, and the high spike damage that sam used to maintain hate could be manipulated into heavy DD. SE even tried to make sam into a better tank with seigan+third eye buff, but the DD mentality of the job has kept it off the official tank jobs list.


You know what.. holy ****. That would explain not only sams A parry skill, but also why gekko/yuki/kasha have attack bonus mods.
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#13 Jun 07 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Default
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Ninja's strike from the shhhhadows, yesh?


I think there needs to be exclusive Ninja Content that gives players "the way of the ninja" option which would be a badass loner right? I mean Ninja should be a "solo" class by definition, in FFXI: NIN was not a Ninja by definition but something else invented by the player base...


Blink Tank is not a Ninja, it's a Blink Tank that people also happen to refer to as "NIN"

Edited, Jun 7th 2009 11:58pm by Hajpoj
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#14 Jun 08 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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ninjas are suppose to be selfless individuals who will sacrifice everything for the good of their comrades, if you go by the FFXI mission on them. It's all about self sacrifice and dangit your 2hr is exploding!

It's weird how FFXI jobs went in directions that SE likely never intended them to go, just look at the original AF, or how many skills go unused. Yeah, as mentioned, ninjas= enfeeblers and damage, samurai= parry tanks.


I do think it's cool that ninjas can tank based on their shadow images and evasion though, it's got a unique feeling to it. I'd like to see this continued to some degree, but not in the form it is now (super money intensive and all)

#15 Jun 08 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
You know what.. holy sh*t. That would explain not only sams A parry skill, but also why gekko/yuki/kasha have attack bonus mods.

This theory has been around for several years, and I think SE actually came out and denied it at one point in an interview or something.

If it worked I bet it'd be a fun way to play SAM though.



Edited, Jun 8th 2009 10:53am by Seloan
#16 Jun 08 2009 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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I would like blink tanks to come back to FF14... but not as ninjas. Ninja and thief/rogue are too intertwining in what they do, lore-wise, so they would better be a single job.

Blinking tanks should be mages specialized in melee combat (not too unlike what rdm/nins can do in FF11).

Then again, if you conceive ninjas as users of "ninja magic" more than actual physical fighters with a handful of tricks, or assasins, then they would be right at home as blink-tanks.

In any case, a blinking tank job should have these three tools: a decent blink spell (utsusemi yes, blink no... blink would only cut it if it had more shadows and a higher proc rate), a damage-reduction spell (protect, or stoneskin, or phallanx would do the job), and a hate spell.
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#17 Jun 08 2009 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind seeing blink tanks again, but I hope they balance it out so that PLD and WAR style tanks aren't replaced by them. Maybe fix it so that the shadows don't negate all damage, just a percentage of damage or something.
#18 Jun 08 2009 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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Originally blink tanking wasn't possible because when Nin was first released. All Ni level spells had a 6s casting time which was reduced to the time we enjoy ever so much to this day. So yes. Utsu was only meant to "Save one's bacon" when pulling or something.

Edited, Jun 8th 2009 12:02pm by Multidude
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#19 Jun 08 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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Faldein wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing blink tanks again, but I hope they balance it out so that PLD and WAR style tanks aren't replaced by them. Maybe fix it so that the shadows don't negate all damage, just a percentage of damage or something.

Or they could just fix the DEF/VIT so that the diminishing returns from stacking said stats aren't so damned catostrophic.
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#20 Jun 08 2009 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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I would love to see a blink tank return to FFXIV.

Maybe a job that can chain blink(s) that would be reminiscent of what a CS RDM/NIN can do with Utsusemi. Up Enspell power, add reflect and remove refresh (and auto generate MP?). It could be a good starting point for a new tanking job. There should at least be these two different tanking methods in the game (Blood and Evasive/Blink). I don't think that having a second option would a bad thing as long as there is a balance. I wouldn't even mind if it is the same job with a different tanking stance.
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