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Speculation on wheel shown in logoFollow

#1 Jun 09 2009 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Not sure if anyone's suggested this yet....but maybe the "wheel" the dev team refered to, as symbolized in the logo, could be somewhat a radar-type chart for allocating skills and/or stats.

you might start out with your radar small and balanced in all attributes. once you start "growing", you increase the size of your radar progressively, in the direction in which you start to specialise in, until the radar area caps. from then on, your radar becomes skewed depending on what skills you use most often. so if you're stronger in a certain attribute, your "radar" draws towards that weapon type while making you weaker in others.

Increase in your proficiency in a certain skill would depend on the frequency of use, similar to the mechanics in last remnant. that way, your max stats/skills can be restricted without being overleveled with your "growth". only draw back is that, as in last remnant, it will be difficult and tedious to change your class.

Edited, Jun 9th 2009 9:46am by hiyohiyo
#2 Jun 09 2009 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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The way they described it, it sounded, to me, like the "wheel" was more of a defensive formation. They mentioned something like you have to trust your friends to cover your back or some such. So instead of having 6-18 players surround 1 mob, it'd be kind of the opposite. The way combat is shown in that trailer, it somewhat confirms that. Not that they were all side by side in a literal wheel/circle but just the shear amount of mobs.

Your idea is interesting though. It reminds me of Ragnarok Online when you first create your character.
#3 Jun 09 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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valid wrote:
The way they described it, it sounded, to me, like the "wheel" was more of a defensive formation. They mentioned something like you have to trust your friends to cover your back or some such. So instead of having 6-18 players surround 1 mob, it'd be kind of the opposite. The way combat is shown in that trailer, it somewhat confirms that. Not that they were all side by side in a literal wheel/circle but just the shear amount of mobs.

Your idea is interesting though. It reminds me of Ragnarok Online when you first create your character.

Indeed, it does. Love Ragnarok Online, first MMO I ever played.

But I think Valid is more along the right track. It could be possible that combat in FFXIV will be more oriented around positioning as opposed to Amnity. For examples, look to games like Guild Wars. Tanks must physically block mobs from reaching and attacking the casters.
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#4 Jun 09 2009 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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your guess is as good as anyone elses. i think its a bit far fetched though.
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#5 Jun 10 2009 at 5:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the wheel sort of means we'll have to pay more attention to actual party formation. Heavy armor wearers will have to guard the squishy guys; not by generating more threat/hate, but by physically being between the enemy and the squishier player(s).
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#6 Jun 10 2009 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Awesome Hiyo, and you should come check this thread (started out with speculations on gear/armour and gradually evolved into materia types and licencing boards, licencing wheels, elemental wheels etc)
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#7 Jun 10 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I think the wheel sort of means we'll have to pay more attention to actual party formation. Heavy armor wearers will have to guard the squishy guys; not by generating more threat/hate, but by physically being between the enemy and the squishier player(s).


If that came to be, could mean there would be more tankable jobs.

I personally feel that any job that can deal high damage should be able to hold their own defensively and tank. Jobs that had the potential to be tanks in XI just couldn't take hits very well other than PLD and to an extent, WAR.

Edited, Jun 11th 2009 12:13am by RaideLeonn
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#8 Jun 11 2009 at 5:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Well they could always go back to classic FF style and have monsters attack whatever is closest. That way you'd want your healers etc "in the back row" like now, but without the hate management involved.

Larger battles would mean more wheel shaped party formations, while lesser battles could probably be more straight on. And of course solo wouldn't make much difference since the mobs would go after you.

Though the problem with this is that mages are invincible until melee are killed.
#9 Jun 14 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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As mentioned, the wheel is a defensive formation. I wouldn't be surprised if an integral part of combat is in defending something. There could be something like a chalice in Crystal Chronicles, or a crystal of some kind.
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#10 Jun 14 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
As mentioned, the wheel is a defensive formation. I wouldn't be surprised if an integral part of combat is in defending something.


This would be very interesting. Having Mob damage given change based on where the player is physically located would add a lot of strategic elements - but I wouldn't want it to become too restrictive or too strategic, etc.
#11 Jun 19 2009 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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If it's already decided that there won't be many action elements (which is the implication), then it **** well better be pretty strategic, or it's just going to be downright boring.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#12 Jun 19 2009 at 6:27 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Though the problem with this is that mages are invincible until melee are killed.


Not to pick on you, but isn't that already a problem in a few MMOs? Everyone is "invincible" until the tank dies or loses aggro. If healers and mages do their jobs "correctly" (read: don't grab the enemy from the tank), isn't it all the same?
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#13 Jun 19 2009 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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just a question... y are we all assuming that there will be a tank job?
yes pld and nin where the tank jobs in FF11 but some of the battle systems suggest on the forums have no need for a tank.

if the trailer gives ANY hints on how the battle system MIGHT turn out then i think tanks will be no more. or atleast no more in the way we have come to know them (aka melee job with crazy high def).

what if the new tank now is a mage with an AOE protect? (aka that shield the mithra used) and the rest of the party members are DD?

makes sense right? in most FF's there was no "tank" job, there was only a healer, and the DD's. tanks work very well for player vs 1 mob type battles where the mob has to be tanked, but if its players vs many tanks are no longer needed. divide and conquer.

it would help speed along party seeking since theres no more need to search for that specific job. any healer, and 5 DD's.

oo b4 i forget... pld... isn't a pld just a Holy Knight? y not just give that job higher then normal def, weaker then normal attack, but has access to holy magic (white magic that deals dmg no curing spells). never understood y FF11 gave damaging white magic to a the WHM. never made sense.... whms heal, buff, and debuff.
#14 Jun 19 2009 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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Leyego wrote:
just a question... y are we all assuming that there will be a tank job?
yes pld and nin where the tank jobs in FF11 but some of the battle systems suggest on the forums have no need for a tank.

if the trailer gives ANY hints on how the battle system MIGHT turn out then i think tanks will be no more. or atleast no more in the way we have come to know them (aka melee job with crazy high def).

what if the new tank now is a mage with an AOE protect? (aka that shield the mithra used) and the rest of the party members are DD?

makes sense right? in most FF's there was no "tank" job, there was only a healer, and the DD's. tanks work very well for player vs 1 mob type battles where the mob has to be tanked, but if its players vs many tanks are no longer needed. divide and conquer.

it would help speed along party seeking since theres no more need to search for that specific job. any healer, and 5 DD's.

oo b4 i forget... pld... isn't a pld just a Holy Knight? y not just give that job higher then normal def, weaker then normal attack, but has access to holy magic (white magic that deals dmg no curing spells). never understood y FF11 gave damaging white magic to a the WHM. never made sense.... whms heal, buff, and debuff.

Take it you never really played many other MMOs because the tank classes in those MMOs have like AOE provoke type moves, so there could very well be tanks and multiple enemies.
#15 Jun 19 2009 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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Leyego wrote:
just a question... y are we all assuming that there will be a tank job?
yes pld and nin where the tank jobs in FF11 but some of the battle systems suggest on the forums have no need for a tank.

if the trailer gives ANY hints on how the battle system MIGHT turn out then i think tanks will be no more. or atleast no more in the way we have come to know them (aka melee job with crazy high def).

what if the new tank now is a mage with an AOE protect? (aka that shield the mithra used) and the rest of the party members are DD?

makes sense right? in most FF's there was no "tank" job, there was only a healer, and the DD's. tanks work very well for player vs 1 mob type battles where the mob has to be tanked, but if its players vs many tanks are no longer needed. divide and conquer.

it would help speed along party seeking since theres no more need to search for that specific job. any healer, and 5 DD's.

oo b4 i forget... pld... isn't a pld just a Holy Knight? y not just give that job higher then normal def, weaker then normal attack, but has access to holy magic (white magic that deals dmg no curing spells). never understood y FF11 gave damaging white magic to a the WHM. never made sense.... whms heal, buff, and debuff.


Would you really want to be a healer in a game where everyone else in the group was constantly taking damage from multiple sources? The tank provides the structure for the combat system. Having one player in a party soaking the majority of the damage makes the life of the healer a whole lot easier and keeps from having a handful of buffoons running all over the place without any coordination. Healer's are hard enough to come by as it is...forcing them into a situation where they have the most complicated, demanding role in the group will just make them that much more scarce.
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