Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Aesthetic Races (an argument, not anouncement)Follow

#1 Jun 10 2009 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
363 posts
How would the playerbase feel if races were purely aesthetic? Example, a taru "warrior equivalent" and galka "warrior equivalent" would have the exact same hp, just look different. How would this change the race you would pick for your main? What is the "benefit" to having races with strong suits and weaknesses? I am not ascertaining that FFXIV will do this, I just find it an interesting logical exercise.

My primary "argument" on why a more "standard stat array" would be a good idea may be the exact reason many people on this board feel it isn't. In FFXI I was a taru, as a taru I had ungodly MP, and struggled in the HP department. As I leveled jobs I found that picking taru however many years ago immediately made certain jobs "hard mode" and others "easy mode". A galka brand new out of the box choosing a mage job is going to cry, and a taru aspiring for their first job to be a non-thf DD is going to equally cry. You can argue that once you have enough gil to hemmorage on specific pieces that it becomes less of an issue. Obviously this means that equipment like heavy armor would need to have +HP and cloth armor +MP so "jobs" get the normal differentiation of stats, but still, with FFXIV coming out there has been much discussion on the FFXI races being "your favorite actor in a different show". Logically, is it possible that an MMO could "level the playing field" without losing something important to the game?

Edited, Jun 10th 2009 8:24am by Ixious
____________________________
Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#2 Jun 10 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
777 posts
I would actually prefer it this way. Or if there is a difference, it is fairly insignificant. Maybe 2-3 stat points here or there at the most.

I think it's unduly restrictive to try and encourage players to assume certain class roles with certain races by statistics. Players will already naturally gravitate towards certain races for certain classes for "roleplayish" reasons... If you don't think so, look towards other MMOs, and see how the class/race layout even without statistical encouragement, tends to gravitate towards the racial norm.

TL;DR: Most people want to play a mage that looks like a mage. Most people want to play a fighter that looks like a fighter. Most people want to play a tank that looks like a tank. ETC.

There's no reason to punish the smaller number of players who would like to make a Taru WAR or a Galka WHM.

Edited, Jun 10th 2009 8:47am by Karelyn
____________________________
KUMQUATS
#3 Jun 10 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
I think the way FFXI did it was just about perfect. I like Galka and Elvaan making slightly better Melee DDs than Tarus, but at the same time keep it small enough that Tarus can do just fine filling those roles if they would like.
____________________________
Vawn (Rank 10 San d'Oria Bastok Windurst)
All jobs 75
Amanomurakumo

My 5-Box FFXI Setup (Pictures)
SoullessSoliders Adventures
#4 Jun 10 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
363 posts
I find it painful that on these boards people say "oh, the difference is so small that any race can do any job", especially as a defense of having racial differences. Either you people don't play ffxi or don't use pickup parties or play endgame, as I have gotten turned away many times from parties as war or sam in the highest tier quality of gear simply b/c i am taru (little do they know my merit distro), and told by many a party leader that they would prefer not a taru pld, asking me to switch to my ninja or downright leave, my ls leader flat out told me "level blm or brd to 75, you won't be getting anything for your melee jobs, and while you are at it, remove your HP merits for MP, you arn't an effing tank". Albeit it is this ****-ish behavior that is the reason I don't play FFXI as much as I used to, and 0 endgame, but it just strikes me as a dichotomy that on a forum people tout the wonders of how any race can do anything, then in game 100% discriminate unless you are the exact maximized combination.
____________________________
Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#5 Jun 10 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Quote:
I find it painful that on these boards people say "oh, the difference is so small that any race can do any job", especially as a defense of having racial differences. Either you people don't play ffxi or don't use pickup parties or play endgame, as I have gotten turned away many times from parties as war or sam in the highest tier quality of gear simply b/c i am taru (little do they know my merit distro), and told by many a party leader that they would prefer not a taru pld, asking me to switch to my ninja or downright leave, my ls leader flat out told me "level blm or brd to 75, you won't be getting anything for your melee jobs, and while you are at it, remove your HP merits for MP, you arn't an effing tank". Albeit it is this ****-ish behavior that is the reason I don't play FFXI as much as I used to, and 0 endgame, but it just strikes me as a dichotomy that on a forum people tout the wonders of how any race can do anything, then in game 100% discriminate unless you are the exact maximized combination.


I'm sorry you had bad experiences but I didn't see those in my ls. This isn't how it is everywhere you just found a bad apple. I've had many TARU dds in my bard parties @ 75 and they perform fine, what server are you on :|?
#6 Jun 10 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
363 posts
Odin, the linkshell in question was Resurrection, led by Hex

Yes I play rarely enough with others that i can shoot myself in the foot by saying that :-p
____________________________
Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#7 Jun 10 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
660 posts
Ixious wrote:
I find it painful that on these boards people say "oh, the difference is so small that any race can do any job", especially as a defense of having racial differences. Either you people don't play ffxi or don't use pickup parties or play endgame, as I have gotten turned away many times from parties as war or sam in the highest tier quality of gear simply b/c i am taru (little do they know my merit distro), and told by many a party leader that they would prefer not a taru pld, asking me to switch to my ninja or downright leave, my ls leader flat out told me "level blm or brd to 75, you won't be getting anything for your melee jobs, and while you are at it, remove your HP merits for MP, you arn't an effing tank". Albeit it is this ****-ish behavior that is the reason I don't play FFXI as much as I used to, and 0 endgame, but it just strikes me as a dichotomy that on a forum people tout the wonders of how any race can do anything, then in game 100% discriminate unless you are the exact maximized combination.


I am so sorry you had to deal with elitist jackasses. I have a good friend who is a Tarudin, and one of the best PLD's I've ever played with. It's all about people's perception and the whole min/max thing. Hopefully in XIV that kind of attitude won't pop up, but I'm not keeping my hopes up for it. There will always be jerks, no matter where you go, and all that matters is how you handle the situations when they arise.
#8 Jun 10 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
***
1,446 posts
To answer the OP I think it would be nice to have differences in the races, maybe not so much with stats but maybe with special abilities. When WoW was first launched (before it was homogenized into what it is today) the races had different abilities. Unfortunately since that was a PVP game too they had to either nerf/buff those abilities or grant them to the other player races. If the team at SE could find a way to grant special abilities to the races without overpowering them or making one race obsolete then I'm all for it!

As for the current system, I really don't have a problem with it. While it's technically possible to have a great endgame Taru paladin, it's not practical unless that player has the merits in the HP and pleanty of gear to increase the HP pool. Galka and Elvaan PLD don't have the heavy need for the gear so it's easier for them to be the tanks. The biggest downside for a taru PLD is getting his foot in the door and getting the good gear that would make him a better tank.
____________________________
Kyansaroo - Kujata
Windurst Rank 10
Tarutaru
BLM 75 / WHM 75 / BST 75 / RDM 75 / BRD 75
Next to 75: COR 47 / SCH 58
RotZ: Complete
CoP: Complete
ToAU: In-Progress
WoTG: In-Progress
#9 Jun 10 2009 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
***
1,713 posts
I don't mind it some, but I honestly would like them to tone it down, perhaps even make it not scale as you level, because by 75 you're way behind in certain stats regardless. This type of thing might work better in a game where you pick one class, one race, but in FFXI (and hopefully FFXIV), where you play many jobs, this just leads to racial tension.

Me personally, I'd rather have a smart, nice, Galka WHM than the snottiest, best geared Taru. The problem is, there are plenty of asshats out there who will be unwilling to ever care about how incredible your gear is or how well you play. Some of them would gladly look for that last XP member an extra 30 minutes rather than bring out a Taru to melee for them.

Also, a Galka mage right out of the box would just cry... they would literally be so handicapped they could scarcely function. I think Galka mages get it worse than Taru melee. A Galka WHM hitting the dunes without millions in gear can cast cure only a handful of times.


Can every race do every job? Sure, and well.
Can everyone in the community accept this? **** no.


Keep the differences for flavor if you like, but turn them down in my opinion.



EDIT: In response to the last post partially. The problem is, people are going to be pragmatic thinkers. A Taru PLD with HP merits still doesn't stack up next to almost any other race even without the merits... heck... maybe even without half the gear. You have to merit your *** off to reach mediocre and that's lame.

Besides, if half the Galkas are doing MP merits and Tarus are doing HP merits... ... where's the point. You're aiming at homogenization through a process of countless hours grinding. The game should be fun and not about working your *** off to fix your racial handicap just barely enough so that you can make a half-*** showing.

Edited, Jun 10th 2009 1:11pm by Yeargdribble
#10 Jun 10 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
32 posts
I think it would be cool if the differences in race were there but half as significant as FFXI. And once you progressed to the point where you capped your job or however you progress to max level in this game you were able to do race specific raining tfor your job to bridge any remaining gaps in stats. I think its illogical to have a Taru with the same hp as a Galka without some sort of extra work or explanation.
#11 Jun 10 2009 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
****
5,684 posts
What if choosing race and specialization were independent. You choose a race for its aesthetic appeal then choose a specialization/setup (mage oriented, melee oriented, AGI oriented, jack of all trades, etc). Then the latter is displayed in a search, rather than the race.
____________________________
Almalieque wrote:
I admit that I was wrong

God bless Lili St. Cyr
#12 Jun 10 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,713 posts
I think that suggestion is fairly brilliant. It will still suck if you go magic specific and then later want to be a melee, but honestly, it's almost the best of all worlds. If people couldn't just look at your race and make a knee-jerk decision that you suck based on it, that would be a move in the right direction.

It would also help people who like being big hulking sides of beef but still want to cast spells and carry around dainty sticks with shiny bits on them as weapons.

This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)