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No Subs = Too WeakFollow

#1 Jun 10 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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For some reason, I have a feeling that most people making the no sub jobs argument either haven't leveled Ninja to 37 or flat out refuse to (...or have quit entirely). This was one of the most unique thing about FFXI. Go play WoW and GTFO!!!!!

Sub jobs or die mofos...
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#2 Jun 10 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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So hostile.

The primary arguement against Subs, is that they ultimately removed options, they didn't add more options. This was due to only a handful of subs being viable (AKA NIN)
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#4 Jun 10 2009 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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To the OP:

I'm hesitant to even reply to your post, but in the interest of discussion:

What if they could provide the same sort of flexibility/customization without reducing it to a simple either/or sub job decision?



Edited, Jun 10th 2009 2:31pm by KarlHungis
#5 Jun 10 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Default
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Gurasugami wrote:
Go play WoW and GTFO!!!!!


I agree with your premise but do you honestly think using that tired, old, myopic statement means anything to anyone except those who don't like WoW?
#6 Jun 10 2009 at 10:33 AM Rating: Default
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mehbeh....it just makes me sad to see them go. ; ;
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#7 Jun 10 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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My issue with subs is that in a some cases they were pretty much required in order to perform your job as it was intended.

Paladin was intended as a tank but try doing it in an XP party without provoke.

Warrior was intended as a tank but try doing it without shadows.

Thief was intended mostly as hate management but there is only one thf in history who tried to make an argument for a sub other than NIN and I dare not speak her (his) name lest we derail.

Subjobs didn't add nearly as much as they took away. Think about it this way:

If SE designed main jobs to actually perform their intended function without relying so heavily on a secondary specialization, we won't *need* subjobs.
#8 Jun 10 2009 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
If SE designed main jobs to actually perform their intended function without relying so heavily on a secondary specialization, we won't *need* subjobs.


Sub jobs were created to add to the timesink element of FFXI. That's the main reason.
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#9 Jun 10 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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In before "having subjob is like having ***" jokes
#10 Jun 10 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
In before "having subjob is like having ***" jokes


How many dedicated MMO players know about that, anyway?
#11 Jun 10 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Even without subjobs I am sure there will be specific things that you CAN obtain or do with a job, but don't necessarily have to.

Instead it will be like "you better have 'random item' equipped or you are a noob!"

We'll have to wait and see though. But I am sure there will be a 'norm' and a 'wtf?' just like in FFXI (yes I am talking about people that go whm/thf... you know who you are)
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#12 Jun 10 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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Gurasugami wrote:
For some reason, I have a feeling that most people making the no sub jobs argument either haven't leveled Ninja to 37

Actually it's most likely the complete opposite.
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#13 Jun 10 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Subjobs are possibly one of the worst system for character development in an MMORPG. Maybe Lotro's "kill 1000 wolves to get this trait," system was worse, but both are near the bottom. City of heroes' slotting system, WoW's talent trees, and even Warhammer's own inflexible talent system are much better.

With subjobs you have too few viable choices, no choice within those choices, and a large timesink involved in bother obtain your first path option and in selecting another.
#14 Jun 10 2009 at 7:59 PM Rating: Decent
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sub jobs are actually pretty ingenious concept. It allows options not arbitrary to existing game mechanics. Rather than pulling "Frost spec" out of thin air I am utilizing another classes strengths. Existent and predictable concepts reinforced by utilizing other classes to enhance your own. Its problems were not inherent to the concept itself but rather subject to the implementation. Or rather the inability to gain something useful from nearly every choice, or limiting my potential choices through use of a sensible ruleset to allowing both my sub and main to gain xp simultaneously..

Hate not the system itself but rather its implementation. A handful of very simple solutions could easily eliminate what some of you dimwits refer to as fundamental core design flaw.

/facepalm

Edited, Jun 11th 2009 12:01am by thorazinekizzez
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