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#1 Jun 10 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Ive been wondering how pet jobs will be implemented in XIV and what changes they might make to them to fit with their idea of a more natural character progression. Besides Drg, the majority of what makes the pet jobs what they are is their pets (Drgs in FF games have still been Drgs without pet wyverns). So the question is, how will we acquire abilities like charm, activate, call wyvern etc. and what will make one be able to say "Im a -pet job-" in FFXIV.

So far the speculation about character progression hasnt touched on weapons and equipment with job limitations. The current popular belief is that if you want to take the path of a blm, you equip and fight with staffs to learn blm spells. If charm is learned in the same way, what would you call someone who takes a path of bst abilities and cure spells? This sort of leads me to believe that there will be clearly defined jobs and the ability to change jobs like FFXI. Maybe what weapon you use as you level up a job is what they mean by weapons having a bigger effect. Using a scythe on bst could lead to a different type of bst at the end than one who used an axe-sort of like specs in WoW. That might not work too well though because perfect balance is impossible and some people would be disappointed by taking the 'inferior' route and not being able to change it. None the less I do believe defined jobs are in store for us. I just cant imagine any other way to have pet jobs.

As for changes go I can only comment on Drg personally but I know Smns will want to be able to keep their summons out and Pups want better AI. As a Drg the most important thing is please keep the pet wyvern. Im one of those dragon fanboys and one of the biggest things about FFXI that got me to buy it was the Drg job. The pet wyvern made the job 10 times more fun than previous examples of dragoons in FF games. I know thats not a change lol but I just wanted to point that out. I would like to see the wyvern physically change through leveling. I think most will agree with me here. It could be as simple as getting a "Call Wyvern II" that replaces "Call Wyvern" upon reaching a certain level (skill level perhaps). More abilities and AI from our wyvern. Maybe the wyvern could use its own abilites to capitalize on cooperative events (i.e. magicbursting a SC with a breath attack) or performing short duration debuffs right before the Drg is about to use a WS (or WS equivalent). I would also like to see us able to wear heavy armor. I think SE will probably oblige with this one as evident in the newer Drg armors in FFXI.

What are some changes you guys want to see with pet jobs and what are some ideas you have about pet job implementation?
#2 Jun 10 2009 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Draykoneyus wrote:
Ive been wondering how pet jobs will be implemented in XIV and what changes they might make to them to fit with their idea of a more natural character progression. Besides Drg, the majority of what makes the pet jobs what they are is their pets (Drgs in FF games have still been Drgs without pet wyverns). So the question is, how will we acquire abilities like charm, activate, call wyvern etc. and what will make one be able to say "Im a -pet job-" in FFXIV.


Every job in FFXI had it's own set of job-specific abilities. The 2hr abilities helped define those sets, but it went beyond that. Warrior was the only class with Provoke. Thief was the only class with Sneak. The list goes on and on.

So if you wanted a freeform leveling system that wasn't based around selecting a specific job (and therefore volunteering for the restrictions of that job), you start looking at things less in terms of a "job" and more in terms of sets of abilities. What defines a BST? The name on the character sheet and the three letters that show up in a search, or the set of abilities they have access to that set them apart from other jobs? If you have access to that set of abilities and choose to focus on them as the mainstay of your character's development, are you not still playing as a BST with or without the label?

So what happens if you gain access to the ability sets associated with DRG (assuming they keep the wyvern concept), BST, SMN, and PUP? You have access to a lot of pets, that's what happens. Maybe a certain set of abilities works more effectively if you have a certain weapon equipped, and for the sake of "balance" and sanity, there might be a coded mechanic that only allows you to have one active pet at a time so you can't cross breed Carbuncle with your wyvern while your automaton films the whole thing.

In a freeform development system, if you like a particular job, you get the option to play in the style resembling that job based on the abilities you have access to and develop, but then you throw in the real neat idea: you aren't restricted to just that set of abilities. You aren't restricted to a subjob to augment your main job. You can develop your character in any way you like, play as a certain job one day, play as another job another day, and the only thing you need to do to distinguish between the two is change some gear around and use different abilities.

In other words, with a "natural" development system that focuses around diversity, you are defining your character rather than having the developers define it for you and then have you pick from a list. The possibilities become endless, and that's a big part of what makes it such an exciting concept.
#3 Jun 10 2009 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
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As long as I can still have my carby-warby.

Who's got a squishy face? You do!

Edited, Jun 11th 2009 2:32am by sillymuppet
#4 Jun 11 2009 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
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I'd dig it if there were a pet job (preferably off the bat) that had a larger connection with their pet and lots of options to make it their own, a bit more like PUP. Never really got interested in BST or SUM when I heard they were really just pre-set monsters that you were just "borrowing" for a bit.

Could also see one possible role for chocobos being a pet class: Due to their focus on maintaining the link with their steed the Chocobo Fighter is only a passable melee fighter, but "activated" chocobos can make remarkable opponents. This would put more value behind chocobo raising and customizing, to boot.
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#5 Jun 11 2009 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Bst was a blast. As soon as you got "leave" you could recycle pets. High risk/reward system. Yeah it sucks loosing exp but you learned your lesson with mistakes. And getting out of impossible situations was such a rush even if it took a crapload of pet swaps. I guess I liked it cause it required some skill and all the pressure was on me. Party play the little I did exp with Bst was extremely rewarding also. I would get bombarded by questions and everyone would want to try BST.

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#6Mellowy, Posted: Jun 12 2009 at 3:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) First of the most obvious change is to allow spells and abilities to land on the pets. It was a brain dead employee that thought a soul voiced WAR with 60% haste would be balanced to a carrie pet.
#7 Jun 12 2009 at 3:47 AM Rating: Good
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Pet classes need to be brought more in line with other playable classes. While this may remove some of the interesting elements from them, ultimately they become a lot more viable in more situations.

Beast master had a very interesting play style to it, but that also hurt BST in many situations.

1. The exp penalty is something that really needs to go. It's silly to penalize a player for utilizing the core function of their class. It's equally ridiculous to penalize white mage for healing.

2. The roaming nature of BST, having to charm new pets constantly, is a precarious situation. I think it adds a very interesting dimension to BST as a pet class, one which I'm hesitant to simply throw away. However, it's also very difficult to balance and make viable in a wide number of situations. Wild mobs, as they are, are difficult to make practical as player pets without significant changes. In FFXI they were simply too strong. More permanent pets, such as puppets from PUP or tamed animals for WOW's hunters are much more easily adjusted to be appropriate strength.

3. Pets need scaling. It took some time for developers to realize the problem with mage characters and gear scaling, but pets also have the same issue. Pets need to scale not only with level, but also with equipment.

I'd like to see pet classes appear in two different incarnations. One type would have small reliance on a pet, anywhere from 15-30% of the player's contribution comes from the pet itself. This could be said to be similar to Dragoons in FFXI or non-demonology warlock in WoW. The pet acts more as support in this instance. Another form I'd like to see implemented is one where 40-60% of the players contribution comes directly from the pet. This would be more akin to Beast masters in FFXI or Beast mastery specced hunters in WoW.
#8 Jun 12 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I’m thinking XIV will have several missions where our characters will be rewarded eith a new skill or ability. Similar to how merits unlock abilities in XI. I ‘m hoping abilities like Charm work more like skills in XIV The more you use them on progressively tougher foes, in this case pets, the more your skill in charm improves.

XIV could lets us choose from a list of primary, secondary, and tertiary abilities to customize our characters. At least that’s what I hope to see. This way someone could take Call Wyvern, pick up a spear and go out calling themselves a Dragoon. Or take Charm, grab an axe and call themselves a Beastmaster. This translates well; you could equip the weapon you want, take a Provoke type ability and go out to tank. I’d love such a freeform way to customize ourselves.
#9 Jun 12 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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1. The exp penalty is something that really needs to go. It's silly to penalize a player for utilizing the core function of their class. It's equally ridiculous to penalize white mage for healing.


Uh... that already went.

Unless of course you were Charming mobs that were Tough or stronger, in which case the Exp you received was adjusted based on the level of the monster you Charmed. Otherwise, there was no longer any penalty for BSTs Charming anything Even Match or below.

Having already corrected the problem in FFXI, I doubt they'd be repeating it in FFXIV should BST make a return.
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#10 Jun 12 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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i was a huge bst and smn fan when i played FF11 but the jobs bugged me a big while playing them.

for 1 if ur job depends on your pet
I.E. summoner & bst.
for summoner ur pet should be atleast as strong or stronger then a melee job while having the advantage of being a summon (disposable) and some nice skills added to them.
im not sure what else they can do to smn. thinking back to other FF's the smn job had one task... cast smns, do MASSIVE amounts of quick dmg, then disappear. ff11 got the blood pacts right but the melee wrong and perp wrong.

as for bst id like to see them scraping the charm ability and refining the call beast ability or something like it a bit more.
this is the first time ive seen in any FF game where a bst runs out and charms random mobs and uses those to attack. whatever happend to making a connection with a monster and befriending it, using it as an ally where you look after it while it does the same for u? bst always struck me as a class that loved animals and treated them with respect while fighting beside them. sort of like a man and his wolf.

tbh ffx-2 got a few of the jobs right beserker was just that, bst came with a pet that u controlled, etc etc(i still consider ffx-2 as the best job system in any FF game to date just wish they added more old school jobs other then mascot (wth?) and idol(wth again))

bring all the classes back to there roots and id go crazy for it.
#11 Jun 12 2009 at 12:54 PM Rating: Decent
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All of the changes that SE made to BST over time in FFXI definitely enhanced the job, but I never could understand why they didn't allow BST to choose what special ability/attack they wanted their pet to use, much like SMN could. I hope at the very least that they will allow this in FFXIV if they have a BST type job/class.
#12 Jun 12 2009 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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If I could get something like Magician from EQOA where the pets get bigger as you level and the pet and owner each have their own abilities I'd be happy.
#13 Jun 12 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Sounds like the Warlock in a game that shall remain nameless. I'd like to see some awesome summons for the Summoner. Id love to wade into battle with Ifrit at my side tearing **** up.
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#14 Jun 12 2009 at 6:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Even if they didn't give the option to customize pets, I would still love to be able to name my pet, like in FFX
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#15 Jun 12 2009 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to see them take Beastmaster & add a little Puppetmaster to it. The ability to charm lower level animals(cannon fodder) relatively easily, and customizable static pets with strong consistent special attacks for party play.

I wouldn't want PUP making a return though, they're just too creepy.
#16 Jun 12 2009 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Pet jobs are the bane of every mmo developer simply because they are almost impossible to balance. FFXI was pretty hit and miss with its four major pet jobs in my opinion. This is what I think will or should happen to those jobs in FFXIV:

Drg- Almost guaranteed to be a job at some point. Odds of the wyvern making a return appearance are 50/50 though. Traditionally the Dragoon or Lancer job hasn't had a pet and I could easily see them dropping it for FFXIV. If they keep the wyvern I would want two major improvements: customizable wyverns and more direct control over the wyvern's actions by the player. Five or six different skins (armored, horned, chinese, etc) and five or six colors is enough to satisfy customization, but you could also go with different sizes, subjob based appearance (assuming we have subjobs), or even wyverns that physically grow along with the player. As for control, it's hard to comment without knowing more about game mechanics but at a minimum I would make it a player command to have the wyvern use it's TP attack.

Bst- This job was both a huge success and a tremendous failure in FFXI. Successful in making a job people liked to play and that was capable of doing things other jobs couldn't; failure in making the job acceptable to most xp parties and other day to day activities in the game. *Please note* I'm not saying it was bad or weak, just that things like the myth of xp loss by inviting a Bst to your party caused issues and that those issues were directly the result of SE's early implementation of the job. I do think Bst will be back in some form (though it may be called something else), but I anticipate a complete redo of the mechanics such that the pet is clearly a player pet and most likely one that is permanent rather than a local wild mob. What I would like to see is Bst getting a couple of pets that they can switch between and have the currently selected pet affect the abilities available to the Bst kind of like a reverse of the Drgsubjob/wyvern thing. In other words a Bst could have a crab, tiger and bee; the crab would be a tanking pet and allow the Bst to access a couple of tanking abilities while the tiger would be pure dps and the bee would be a form of debuffer. I envision Bst being a sought after tank with the ability to juggle hate between the player and pet.

Smn- When you make a job called Summoner and it spends 75% of the time casting Cure instead of, you know, summoning...I call that a failure. The summons were pretty and some of the abilities they had were impressive, but it just never came together the way most players or the developers hoped. The good news is that I fully expect Smn to return in FFXIV but I also expect a total overhaul of the mechanics. The problem with Smn is that summons in FF have traditionally been the big finish burst ability and they don't do much the rest of the time; Blood Pacts were a clear attempt to follow that path in FFXI but it just didn't work. I honestly think that the way to go with this class is to make Carby an always-present pet and have the summons like Shiva or Ifrit just be the graphical representations of various Summoner spells. For example: Carby builds TP, Smn calls Shiva to cast Freeze, Carby vanishes and is replaced by Shiva who actually casts the Freeze spell doing damage based on summoning skill and Carby's TP at the time of summoning, Shiva vanishes and Carbuncle goes back to meleeing. Of course, the only way this solves the problem of Smn becoming a ghetto Whm is if the summons take ridiculous, Ancient Magic-like cast times so that the avatar is always busy 'casting' something and the nuke potential is enough to make Smn a top flight dpser.

Pup- Sorry, but this job isn't very popular within the FFXI community and is virtually unknown outside of FFXI. Sadly, I think that means Pup is a long shot to make it in to FFXIV at all and it almost certainly won't be a job at launch. Mimes, Engineers and a Dollmaster job (think Lulu's dolls from FFX) are all possibilities as spiritual successors to this underappreciated job.
#17 Jun 13 2009 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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As long as I can still have my carby-warby.


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#18 Jun 13 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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as for bst id like to see them scraping the charm ability and refining the call beast ability or something like it a bit more.


I wouldn't play it if they changed it to that. The ability to charm natural monsters for a short period of time was exactly why I thought the class was unique. A animal trainer keeps a few animals around but a master of beasts uses them all.
#19 Jun 13 2009 at 9:45 PM Rating: Good
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I like bst exactly the way it is. It is the only reason I even play ffxi. I could care less about anything else. If I can’t charm local monsters (especially the really strong ones) and have them fight for me like I do in ffxi, I just won’t play ffxiv.
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#20 Jun 13 2009 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Ya know, when I first started to think of what a new Bst should be like... I couldn't help but think of WoW. I like how you could raise it, keep it in a pin and have it grow in time. I thought that would make a great idea for FF14, but than I started to remember how unique, helpful, powerful or charm ability was.

I wouldn't trade charm for that - it would be a really bad swap IMO. So I was thinking, maybe we could keep charm and have our jug pets be able to be trained and raised in some fashion - almost like pokemon I suppose (in some way).

Just a passing thought I suppose...
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#21 Jun 13 2009 at 11:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Warlocks in WOW made me fall in love with pet classes. If squeenix has any design sense they will make SMNs capable DDs instead of the white mages in disguise they were in FFXI.
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#22 Jun 15 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
Drg is not a pet job.
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#23 Jun 15 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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All of the changes that SE made to BST over time in FFXI definitely enhanced the job, but I never could understand why they didn't allow BST to choose what special ability/attack they wanted their pet to use, much like SMN could. I hope at the very least that they will allow this in FFXIV if they have a BST type job/class.


Seconded. This was my major gripe about BST, but I played within my limitations. I would have liked to have had a choice which "Sic" attack I could've used with my pet. And furthermore, I'd like to skillchain with my pets. BLU could skillchain...why not BST w/pet, or pet skillchains with BLU abilities?
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