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#252 Jun 18 2009 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm pretty sure jump will be in every first and third person MMO going forward. It's a crowd pleaser function in a similar way to cup holders and cigarette lighters in cars.
#253 Jun 19 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Default
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i for one would like to keep it the same and not have a jump button. I mean there have been what 14 ff and one of those have had jump, X-2. It's probably the lack of the "jump" function which makes ff unique and better than other genres and also other RPG's
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#254 Jun 19 2009 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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It's probably the lack of the "jump" function which makes ff unique and better than other genres and also other RPG's


...really? It's the lack of the jump function which makes ff better than other RPGs? I think that if context calls for it, SE should (and hopefully will) add the jump function. Lord knows it was needed in FFXI -- everyone's been caught up in those few awkward snags due to very small objects.
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#255 Jun 19 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Kharmageddon wrote:
...really? It's the lack of the jump function which makes ff better than other RPGs?


Yes, because everyone knows that any given Final Fantasy game would be completely fail with Jumping in it.

Honestly, with arguments like that surfacing I think it's probably time to lock this thread up.
#256 Jun 19 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Though it wasn't really a FF game kingdom hearts had jump and it was Awesome. Now kingdom hearts wasn't a mmo but still I would like to see s system like that where you can jump around, fight while in mid air with special attacks for mid air battle, and grabbing ledges and pulling yourself up. People want freedom of movement and jump delivers.
#257 Jun 19 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Default
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If they add jump, will they also add falling damage? One nice side effect of FFXI's rigid 'stuck to the terrain' model is that you didn't have to worry about falling off a cliff and dying. In EQ1 I started as a wood elf and my first death was falling out of the tree city. I'm sure other people shared the same experience.
#258 Jun 19 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah there'd probably be fall damage. Not that it's a big deal.
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#259 Jun 20 2009 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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good lord lol a 6 page thread on people arguing about jumping. what will they think of next?

im not surprised though, i believe its because the question is so simple that it has created sucha fuss. its so simple that both sides think that their answer is the obvious choice


in every mmo ive played <though FFXI is the only pay to play one> that has had a decently-great designed world, there are places that get you stuck and your forced to walk around. im sure FFXIV will be no different since FFXI had the predescribed looking world and this is the same company making it and they have a good track record. in other FF games, not including XI, there is usually great scenery <err, when they started making them 3-d anyway>...off to the side, the awesome looking scenery has the same function as an invisible wall and keeps you on the path. take X for example, the mihen highroad has lush greenery all around you, yet theres a clear path and the greenery just happends to act as the border for said path. its like that, more or less, in every area...great looking surroundings, but 1 obvious path. hence no need for jumping

then look at XI. being an MMO their isnt, and shouldnt, be one path...just about everywhere is traversable, and rightfully so. however because theres no set path, theres no path for them to keep clear...there are no boundries <well there are but not nearly on the same level> so theres no definite spot they need to keep clear <aside from super obv things of course, they arent stupid enough to block an entrance> and because of them wanting to keep the landscape looking as cool as ever they add different types of terrain...and sometimes that terrain gets in your way. now some terrain SHOULDNT be passable. however there are some that are just plane rediculous. like that fence in rolandbarry <been a while since i played, that IS the name isnt it? place outside the crawlers nest> forget jumpng, that thing is so small our characters <save tarutaru> should be able to STEP over them, letalone JUMP.

and you know what, those kinds of "terrain" <a fence isnt exactly terrain lol> problems will be in XIV, im 99.9% sure of it <though nobody can be 100%> and guess what, going around things that you not only should be able to go over but also arent blocking anything out of the question off <all the fence example does is slow you down, theres nothing forbidden they're trying to keep us out of> they are just wasting our time


and you know what? time is the most valuable resource we have. we cant make/buy/find/steal/or get anymore of it, when its gone its gone. i dont know about the rest of you, but MY time is definitely "significant", and adding a way to save my time would most definately be a "significant" feature in the game. and if jumping happends to be that way? so be it. my thing is i just dont want a pointless time sink, its 1/3 of the reason i quite playing FFXI


and i do believe somebody said, several pages ago, that if they were <or were not> planning to add jump, its already <not> in there, so arguing is pointless. the decision is already made
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#260 Jun 20 2009 at 11:17 PM Rating: Default
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Funny though because technically this entire game will use up some of your time if you play it. You can't argue that it will save time because if you never play, you won't lose any time at all. Save time = don't play.
#261 Jun 20 2009 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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As as much (pointless) fun jumping is in WoW, I really, really don't want to see it in XIV.
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#262 Jun 20 2009 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Feyted wrote:
Funny though because technically this entire game will use up some of your time if you play it. You can't argue that it will save time because if you never play, you won't lose any time at all. Save time = don't play.


really? because i dont see entertainment as a waste of time. however time sinks eat into my entertainment time, so ide like to see less of them...and this particular time sink <having to go around something we should easily be able to go over> is almost garunteed to happen without someway to combat it...unless of course they have flat terrain...which would be boring, i wanna see some rough terrain and cool landscapes...i just dont wanna be blocked by a 1 inch crack in the ground ya'know
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#263 Jun 20 2009 at 11:38 PM Rating: Decent
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vedina wrote:
Feyted wrote:
Funny though because technically this entire game will use up some of your time if you play it. You can't argue that it will save time because if you never play, you won't lose any time at all. Save time = don't play.


really? because i dont see entertainment as a waste of time. however time sinks eat into my entertainment time, so ide like to see less of them...and this particular time sink <having to go around something we should easily be able to go over> is almost garunteed to happen without someway to combat it...unless of course they have flat terrain...which would be boring, i wanna see some rough terrain and cool landscapes...i just dont wanna be blocked by a 1 inch crack in the ground ya'know



Who said waste? That was you. I merely said it would use up time. As for the cracks, if they include jumping, I reckon they should add invisible walls. I don't want to fall down and "waste" time having to respawn. Heck, just remove dying altogether. Those few seconds between losing hp and getting rezzed sure are annoying (discounting death penalty).
#264 Jun 21 2009 at 12:01 AM Rating: Default
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when i said cracks, i mean literal cracks...nothing anything, even a tarutaru, could pheasably fall into and certainly nothing that would require an invisible wall. i was mostly exagerating but i have played some games where any "obstacle" on the groubd was impassable, even really stupid things like cracks to where theres no way you could fall in and should easily be able to step over. again i doubt it will be that extreme in XIV, but things like it are in XI <like the fence and small landcape things here and there> and in many other games. i dont want such an easily fixable time sink to occure and would like to avoid all unnecissary time sinks

EDIT: and also, about the "waste time thing" yes you didnt specifically say waste but it sounded, to me anyway, as though thats what you were saying playing the game would be. i mean if you do literaly mean USE time...well thats inevitable, i cant stop the passing of time. me playing or not playing doesnt change the fact that my time is being used...i just want to make sure that im using my time in an enjoyable and efficiant manner, not wasting time going around a rock i shouldve been able to step over. perhaps i was the one who was unclear, i apologize for that, i am quite tired atm lol *goes to sleep*

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 4:05am by vedina
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#265 Jun 21 2009 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Meh I am pretty bored currently so just posting. How about this though. Jumping can cause just as many time sinks if implemented incorrectly. I know every game can't be perfect. But I see one to many times when traveling to places in other MMOs people are needlessly jumping until they go oops and jump right off a cliff, into a rock, etc. Just bad design/stupid actions and then you gotta wait for them to respawn from death or see them jumping around trying to unstick themselves. I honestly don't care so much anymore since I reckon it will be in the game. Though I still believe it is unnecessary and may cause more problems/irritations than it can solve.
#266 Jun 21 2009 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Feyted wrote:
Meh I am pretty bored currently so just posting. How about this though. Jumping can cause just as many time sinks if implemented incorrectly. I know every game can't be perfect. But I see one to many times when traveling to places in other MMOs people are needlessly jumping until they go oops and jump right off a cliff, into a rock, etc.

Jumping didn't cause that, it was a player choice. There is a difference between the game forcing a timesink upon me, and my choosing something that results in a timesink. It's the same difference as you accidentally burning your hand on the stove and me holding your hand down onto the burner.
#267 Jun 21 2009 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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This would have been a good subject to add a poll to, me thinks.
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#268 Jun 21 2009 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Feyted wrote:
Meh I am pretty bored currently so just posting. How about this though. Jumping can cause just as many time sinks if implemented incorrectly. I know every game can't be perfect. But I see one to many times when traveling to places in other MMOs people are needlessly jumping until they go oops and jump right off a cliff, into a rock, etc. Just bad design/stupid actions and then you gotta wait for them to respawn from death or see them jumping around trying to unstick themselves. I honestly don't care so much anymore since I reckon it will be in the game. Though I still believe it is unnecessary and may cause more problems/irritations than it can solve.


I guess the solution would be to pay attention to where you're going and not jump off cliffs. That's no more bad game design than monsters that can kill you. It's a hazard, and if a player can suppress the compulsion to be an moran, they're not too like to be killing themselves on landscape features :P
#269 Jun 21 2009 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
One problem with jumping is that you kind of would have to add a sort of "Fall Damage" too. either that or you can't jump off cliffs or into water or anything from a ledge and at that point jumping seems kind of stupid. It's really one of the more pointless things in an MMO, but it's fun to do at times when you're bored. Some people are going on on how they don't want a trillion people randomly jumping. I'm not sure that would be the case. A lot of people in FFXI who hang around randomly are probably AFK or the like.

I mean seriously what if you could jump fences with your chocobo or something? I mean that would be pretty neat I think. I mean you could have a chocobo race? :/

I mean even in Wow where there is a jump button it does not really serve a lot of purpose. sometimes there are places for boss fights where there is a slightly elevated edge where jumping is required, or a platform above water or something. but there are not many of those.
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#270 Jun 22 2009 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
I guess the solution would be to pay attention to where you're going and not jump off cliffs. That's no more bad game design than monsters that can kill you. It's a hazard, and if a player can suppress the compulsion to be an moran, they're not too like to be killing themselves on landscape features :P


Haha yes that is true, unfortunately not alot of people do these days :P
#271 Jun 22 2009 at 2:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Only Dragoons should be allowed to jump.


But seriously guys, I seriously doubt jumping is going to happen. It works well in WoW because nobody gives a second thought when those characters can jump twice their own height.

With the style and atmosphere in XI, and presumably XIV, jumping will simply look laughable and ridiculous, because let's face it, realistically, people looks silly when they jump.

If anything, we should have an action button a la Zelda or simply a less intrusive collision detection system. For example, if you were to run into a very low fence that your character could easily scale, just tap a button and have him scale it without breaking your stride.


Edit:
Why am I being sub-defaulted? This board, man...

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 12:08pm by Kirbster
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#272 Jun 22 2009 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I for one would like to see it, I don't wanna be able to jump twice my height like in Wow or scale mountains or anything, I want to be able to jump over that 2inch high bit of rock that's stopping me running in a straight line. I really hate that, it just ruins the immersion of the game, you're like ok I'm a warrior with a bigass axe who can kill that big old ram monster over there that makes the ground shake.. yet I can't traverse small steps.

If you hate watching people jump though, other than the previous suggestion of seeking medical help, can't we just disable jump in towns? I mean that's the main place it's going to annoy all those poor sensitive people. Then in the field the bunnys can hop and skip over all the retarded obstacles that SE's retarded collision system can put in their way.
#273 Jun 22 2009 at 6:47 AM Rating: Good
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I'll still vote in favor of a just contextual jump/step-up button that only lets you do so when you need to.
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#274 Jun 22 2009 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll still vote in favor of a just contextual jump/step-up button that only lets you do so when you need to.


If said context is 'whenever I feel like jumping' then I'd agree :P
#275 Jun 22 2009 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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godmademedoit wrote:
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I'll still vote in favor of a just contextual jump/step-up button that only lets you do so when you need to.


If said context is 'whenever I feel like jumping' then I'd agree :P
By the power of the Gods I pray it won't be. I would not be able to handle the jumping hoards.

Let me say once again: Action button plz. Jump button nothx.
#276 Jun 22 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
Jump could be good if it is implemented well and not like in WoW, I'd have to play FFXIV before deciding if I want it.
I have seen comments such as " If you can jump I'm not playing FFXIV" how stupid.
Rather than jumping I want to see being able to run and cast spells, maybe not all spells, maybe not the most powerful of spells, but your everyday stuff you cast loads, buffs, heals etc yeah I want to be able to cast on the move.
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#277 Jun 22 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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triplealphareaction wrote:
Jump could be good if it is implemented well and not like in WoW, I'd have to play FFXIV before deciding if I want it.
I have seen comments such as " If you can jump I'm not playing FFXIV" how stupid.
Rather than jumping I want to see being able to run and cast spells, maybe not all spells, maybe not the most powerful of spells, but your everyday stuff you cast loads, buffs, heals etc yeah I want to be able to cast on the move.


people have actually said that 0_o

lol i wanna jump <or more specifically i dont want a useless time sink, i could honestly care elss if they combated that with jumping or somethign else> but im not going to not play because i cant XD

of course im also an FF tool o_o. ide probably buy the game no matter how bad it was as long as it had FF in the name >_>

but even still, it seems silly for jumping to be somebodies deciding factor in playing it or not


EDIT: omg i just noticed my sig 0_o why did Allakhazam get replaced with allakhazam?


EDIT 2: omg it did it again 0_0. that first allakhazam should be c h u c k n o r r i s XD. how funny that they replace his name with themselves
Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 7:08pm by vedina

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 7:10pm by vedina

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 7:11pm by vedina
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#278 Jun 23 2009 at 7:34 AM Rating: Default
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The problem I have is when people say "I feel immersed" when all they do is spam it. I want to see records of average people here that jump constantly on a daily basis.

Some people have the right idea, and having a cool down on jumping or a spot where you would need to would be awesome. I can compromise, but idiots who spam jump are no better than xboxlive kids and their annoying voices.
#279 Jun 23 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll take a jump ability, and it doesn't have to be anything excessive or there will be those one or two annoying retards that will abuse it on a constant basis. (Visually pictures a few noobs hoping all over a zone... no thx).

But honestly, if Square Enix could make it like Last Remnant and FFXII whereby there were "jump points" that would be very acceptable. Either that or it has some kind of appropriate cool-down, I dunno. But while we're on the subject of jumps, I'd very very much like to have a "climbing" ability.
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#280 Jun 23 2009 at 10:09 PM Rating: Excellent
I still don't get it. Why would I want to be able to jump?

I could think of several other things I'd rather have my character do:

-Sprint
-Swim
-Climb
-Juke/stiff arm/spin move (for kiting)

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#281 Jun 24 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Didn't like the constant bunny hopping in WoW, don't want it n FFXIV either.

Honestly, the only reason people have given for it, is that you'd be able to jump over little things... Woo?

To me, the benefit doesn't outweigh the detriment.

I do find it amusing, it's mainly WoW players who want it, and mainly FFXI players who don't.

I'm still standing on my opinion that SE should be catering to the people who supported their last MMO, and not the ones who ignored it entirely, or left for WoW.
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#282 Jun 24 2009 at 11:01 AM Rating: Default
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Jump with a 1min reuse time, so people don't spam it,, yes please , can I have it?
#283 Jun 24 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
I still don't get it. Why would I want to be able to jump?

I could think of several other things I'd rather have my character do:

You would want to jump for the reasons already listed in this thread. I know it can be annoying to read long threads, and so I don't' expect anyone to do it, but neither do I expect them to pretend like common questions haven't already been addressed several times.

Nothing you listed is mutually exclusive. There's no reason both jumping and swimming couldn't be in the game.
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Honestly, the only reason people have given for it, is that you'd be able to jump over little things... Woo?

And save you 20-30 minutes of pointless detours, yes, we've been over this.
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To me, the benefit doesn't outweigh the detriment.

We've been over this as well. The "detriment," is the imagined annoyance of a small minority who should get the stick out of their bum.
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]I do find it amusing, it's mainly WoW players who want it, and mainly FFXI players who don't.

I find it irritating. The people who are holding off against a very simple, useful, beneficial, and standard MMO feature are the ones who have never tried it.
#284 Jun 24 2009 at 11:40 AM Rating: Default
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And save you 20-30 minutes of pointless detours, yes, we've been over this.


We've been over this, too. No it won't if SE doesn't want it =/.
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#285 Jun 24 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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ScorpionEx wrote:
I'm still standing on my opinion that SE should be catering to the people who supported their last MMO, and not the ones who ignored it entirely, or left for WoW.


That would make terrible financial sense.

There's roughly 500,000 people currently subscribing to FFXI. Let's say that S-E does what you suggest, and 400,000 of those people move to XIV, while 100,000 stay with XI. The people who ignored it entirely before still ignore it, and the ones who left for WoW come back, check it out, see that it's XI-with-new-tires, and leave again.

At this point, S-E has put countless amounts of money and manpower into their new project, with the result being approximately the same number of monthly subscribers, only now they're spread out over two games. Now there are players of two games clamoring for new content, with no appreciable increase in profit.

S-E needs to attract a somewhat different gamer base with XIV in order to justify having two MMOs on the market.

Edit - typo


Edited, Jun 24th 2009 3:49pm by SEforPrez
#286 Jun 24 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
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SEforPrez wrote:
ScorpionEx wrote:
I'm still standing on my opinion that SE should be catering to the people who supported their last MMO, and not the ones who ignored it entirely, or left for WoW.


That would make terrible financial sense.

There's roughly 500,000 people currently subscribing to FFXI. Let's say that S-E does what you suggest, and 400,000 of those people move to XIV, while 100,000 stay with XI. The people who ignored it entirely before still ignore it, and the ones who left for WoW come back, check it out, see that it's XI-with-new-tires, and leave again.

At this point, S-E has put countless amounts of money and manpower into their new project, with the result being approximately the same number of monthly subscribers, only now they're spread out over two games. Now there are players of two games clamoring for new content, with no appreciable increase in profit.

S-E needs to attract a somewhat different gamer base with XIV in order to justify having two MMOs on the market.

Edit - typo


Edited, Jun 24th 2009 3:49pm by SEforPrez


I don't care for the slightest of what financial gain SE get. I want a game that is catered towards the people who supported them, and not one that abandons their core fanbase in favor more money in their pockets.

It may very well be a pipe dream, but really, why on earth should I care for SE's stocks over my enjoyment of a game?

Also, the simple truth is, it'll have a large influx of subscriptions, possibly amounting to at least a million, for a couple of months, and then gradually decline gron then on.

500,000 accounts is more than financially sustainable, and it probably would bring them a particularly large amount of profit too.

But like I said, I'd rather a new game, not FFXI with new tires, but a new game, that contains elements of FFXI that I, and the rest of FFXI fanbase, loved. I don't want it turning into a mindless WoW clone to appease those who never took an interest in FFXI in the first place.

Again, why would I care for anything to do with SE's financial status?
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#287 Jun 24 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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You don't have to care, but the chances of the game being how you want it to be is slim to none, because SE does care.
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#288 Jun 24 2009 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
We've been over this, too. No it won't if SE doesn't want it =/.

We've been over this too... SE didn't deliberately put everything that detours you into your path. And I already told you why this was silly. It was for the sake of scenery. The obstacles were accidental, not intentional. They aren't going to replace the fences in Rolanberry fields with 20 foot tall rockwalls, because that's not what you would find in a orchard.
#289 Jun 24 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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The obstacles were accidental, not intentional. They aren't going to replace the fences in Rolanberry fields with 20 foot tall rockwalls, because that's not what you would find in a orchard.


The 5-20second obstacles (like those fences), yes. The 20-30min ones? Nnnnope.
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#290 Jun 24 2009 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
The 5-20second obstacles (like those fences), yes. The 20-30min ones? Nnnnope.

You don't see how a map like this might take several extra minutes to cross? It's been too long since I've played FFXI to remember exactly which spots irritated me the most, but I do remember thinking "Wow, if only I could just hop down this terrace." How about jumping down levels in Oztroja castle? IF I remember correctly there are at least a few levels within the same zone that, if you had jump, you could hop down very easily.

I'm sorry I can't rattle of a list of each specific place where jump would have been significantly useful, but they do exist. And there has still yet to be a meritorious reason presented as to why jumping should not be in the game.
#291 Jun 24 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Default
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You don't see how a map like this might take several extra minutes to cross? It's been too long since I've played FFXI to remember exactly which spots irritated me the most, but I do remember thinking "Wow, if only I could just hop down this terrace." How about jumping down levels in Oztroja castle? IF I remember correctly there are at least a few levels within the same zone that, if you had jump, you could hop down very easily.


Yer, you could save a bit of time if you could hop over the fences, but we're still talking about a minimal time here.

And eh, you don't really need jumping to be able to go down the levels in the castle.. you can just, drop down? That is possible even in XI. I have no idea why SE didn't allow us to do that in Oz, but it's probably one of those "hey, I have a good idea! Let's make 20min detours that no one likes to do in the castle!" brainfarts that the devs seem to suffer from at times.

Anyway, it's a good counter argument, but over exaggerating like that doesn't really benefit the argument, just makes it less convincing.
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#292 Jun 24 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Default
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ScorpionEx wrote:

I don't care for the slightest of what financial gain SE get. I want a game that is catered towards the people who supported them, and not one that abandons their core fanbase in favor more money in their pockets.

It may very well be a pipe dream, but really, why on earth should I care for SE's stocks over my enjoyment of a game?


I'm not saying you should care necessarily, only that S-E's financials will impact their decision making. They're in the game-producing business to make money.

ScorpionEx wrote:
Also, the simple truth is, it'll have a large influx of subscriptions, possibly amounting to at least a million, for a couple of months, and then gradually decline gron then on.

500,000 accounts is more than financially sustainable, and it probably would bring them a particularly large amount of profit too.


Numbers-wise, I have no idea. Personally, I think you could be underestimating the number of people interested in this game/franchise, but I might be wrong as well.

Having said that, supposing XIV did settle at about 500,000 after 6 mos to a year, after that year S-E would be in the exact same position wrt subscribers (XI + XIV) as if they had never developed a new game at all. They have to aim bigger than that. FFXI has given them experience in the MMO market, and they need to learn from their mistakes to capture as large a portion of that market as possible. I wouldn't consider 2-2.5 million stable subscribers to be an unreasonable goal for their new game.

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But like I said, I'd rather a new game, not FFXI with new tires, but a new game, that contains elements of FFXI that I, and the rest of FFXI fanbase, loved. I don't want it turning into a mindless WoW clone to appease those who never took an interest in FFXI in the first place.

Again, why would I care for anything to do with SE's financial status?


We want the same thing - that's why we're both posting on this board. Honestly, I don't care about S-E's financial status either, except to help color my expectations for what XIV will be like.
#293 Jun 25 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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220 posts
lol i cant believe people are actually complaining about the possibility of being able to jump in FFXIV. Even funnier are the people who say it would take away from the realness and total game immersion. Jump, yes please. Its realistic and helpful!
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#294 Jun 26 2009 at 4:54 AM Rating: Decent
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50 posts
Yeah I mean, I played wow for a while and I'm sure people were jumping a lot and I'm sure I probably did the odd pointless bit of jumping about at some point, but I couldn't say for sure because I was too busy actually playing the game to get ****** off with something petty like how much that dude over there was jumping about. I'll tell you what though, being able to jump was **** useful and I certainly favour it in an online game.

Seriously though. Everyone will just hop about like bunnies for a week INCLUDING YOU because they're like 'omfg square enix figured out how to make a character jump at will in one of their games!' Then they'll calm down and enjoy how useful it is.
#295 Jun 26 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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22,699 posts
Quote:
Yer, you could save a bit of time if you could hop over the fences, but we're still talking about a minimal time here.


You don't pass any fences if you're not going in between any of the zones and crawlers nest. You'll pass some separators for the fields, but you can actually go right through those because it's every other. Jumping is a fun thing to do. Even if there's no advantage whatsoever, and there's nothing that can be done with it, it's still fun.

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 10:11am by Deadgye
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#296 Jun 26 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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230 posts
Quote:
Anyway, it's a good counter argument, but over exaggerating like that doesn't really benefit the argument, just makes it less convincing.


In all honesty, he was hardly exaggerating. These little ledges exist *everywhere* in the game. Not being able to jump is one thing, but not being able to fall down a ledge is another. There are places in Windurst where I should be able to at least fall off a ledge onto a lower path, and I can't. I'm forced to run around it until I can find a way. The importance of a jump ability can not be overstated, even if it's on some sort of charge time/animation and can't be spammed. Even if it *can* be spammed, the people who do it are doing it because they want to -- which, by definition, makes it pleasing in one sense or another.

The argument against jumping is so flawed, it's hard to imagine this thread has made it to page 6.
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#297 Jun 26 2009 at 8:59 AM Rating: Default
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456 posts
Its not as simple as you make the agruement to be, why can you fall down some places and not in others. My conclusion is SE wants you to fall down in some areas but not in all places. Now this might not be true for every place you can't fall down but it is for some. That being said saving 3 seconds of time on some little obstacles is a minor thing. If SE wanted to make the zones easy to cross, they could have done so, to say that you know SE didn't mean to, and its just a mechanic flaw is not true. Noone knows if SE meant to add obstacles or not, my guess is they did on most things. Like byakko platform, like the castle, like that rock in kuftal tunnel, like goin to sandy in past jugner, and many other places. If SE meant to add these obstacle like I think they did, then jumping will not solve anything, they would just make a higher rock where you can't jump over, or a higher ledge where if you jump off you would die. SE zones even in other games, usually had obstacles in them, and I dont think FFXIV will be any different. I also think jumping would not solve anything but very minor obstacles, while adding minor annoying problems.
#298 Jun 26 2009 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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230 posts
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Its not as simple as you make the agruement to be, why can you fall down some places and not in others. My conclusion is SE wants you to fall down in some areas but not in all places. Now this might not be true for every place you can't fall down but it is for some. That being said saving 3 seconds of time on some little obstacles is a minor thing. If SE wanted to make the zones easy to cross, they could have done so, to say that you know SE didn't mean to, and its just a mechanic flaw is not true.


Agree to disagree. To think that SE designed a zone and placed little obstacles with some sort of purpose is pretty counter-intuitive. You're telling me that they spent development time making already distant journeys harder by purposely adding obstacles and preventing players from accessing certain ledges? I think just the opposite; SE realized that their ledges needed to allow players to fall off of them and fixed certain ones when they had the chance, and left others because they were low priority.

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That being said saving 3 seconds of time on some little obstacles is a minor thing.


This isn't true either, especially when it happens often enough. Getting stuck on things is annoying. If traveling is a large part of the game, which it is, you're getting stuck on things pretty often. In FFXI, you can definitely attribute MINUTES of your journey to getting stuck on things, unless you already know which trouble spots to avoid.
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#299 Jun 26 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
27 posts
I don't think jump would work in XI but I think it would really work well in XIV if they make the game to have the feature from the start... Ether a button or allow for it to happen like it does in Zelda. :)
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#300 Jun 26 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
I never really felt that I wanted to leap in FFXI, but it annoys the **** out of me when I'm running from something and I have to go ten seconds in the wrong direction to get around a rise in the ground that is only a half a foot tall that my character is too stupid to lift her foot and step over...

EDIT: I don't know how I ended up spelling annoys as alloys....

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 12:53pm by LadyOfHolyDarkness
#301 Jun 26 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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50 posts
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This isn't true either, especially when it happens often enough. Getting stuck on things is annoying. If traveling is a large part of the game, which it is, you're getting stuck on things pretty often. In FFXI, you can definitely attribute MINUTES of your journey to getting stuck on things, unless you already know which trouble spots to avoid.


One good example of this is running over a large area with several stepped levels like La Thienne Plateau. As we all know travel in FFXI was tedious, especially at low levels, so most players are going to whack autorun on anyway, but either way I'm sure we've all took a wrong turn and dropped down a step, and oh look, no way to get back up. There's a fair few areas in that zone that on their own can add minutes to your travel navigating round not just badly designed drops with few ways back up, but also simply running round stupid tiny ledges your character could probably step up in real life.

Oh and another thing, I've been killed while levelling solo a few times when a larger monster has aggroed me and I've been unable to zone because some stupid ledge got in my way. Since FFXIV is going to be more geared towards solo players this alone would be reason to let us have a jump function.

For the record, I absolutely hate context sensitive jump features. With the exception of Zelda maybe, and I don't think they could implement anything that smooth in a free roaming MMO. Those whole press X to jump at ledge Y stuff is horribly tedious and slow.
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