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Poll: Would you like Fomor/Waltzes as a playable race? Follow

#52 Jun 14 2009 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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mortalabattoir wrote:
We need races that are more flexible, not ones that are tied down to a specific job... [and] waltzes are ballroom dances designed to triple time. Nice try, though, lol.
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#53 Jun 14 2009 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Hm.. It's not that I don't want more races.. The more the merrier...

But I'm in the camp who feels that 'Black Mage' is just a guy with a hood or hat on.. What happened in FFIX is just a different take on the look of that character type.. The Black Mage 'look' isn't a race of people so much as it's a nostalgic element much like cactuars, tonberries, etc.
#54 Jun 14 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
These kinds of comments ran rampant upon the game's release. In light of that, I really consider the polling results to be pretty favorable.


If these results are favorable, pray tell... what would an unfavorable result look like?

In any case, I think it's a moot point. There are no Waltzes in the artwork released by SE. It seems to me that they have already made their minds up with regard to what will be included as a playable race.
#55 Jun 14 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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EbenezerSpooge wrote:
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These kinds of comments ran rampant upon the game's release. In light of that, I really consider the polling results to be pretty favorable.


If these results are favorable, pray tell... what would an unfavorable result look like?
Considering that there's already at least 8 and possibly 10 or 12 racial choices (taking M/F as separate races), a result of under 7% for all "I'd use it/I might use it" votes combined could safely be called "unfavorable". (Between 7% and 11% a case could still be made, though it's a little spottier.)

Why? Well, with this added, you'd theoretically have up to 14 choices for race+gender... and an even split would give you about 7.14% in each combination.

Since roughly one person in four would at least consider using it, and one in six would use it, that would seem to be a significant section of the playerbase...
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#56 Jun 14 2009 at 9:43 PM Rating: Default
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Anyway, isn't there a NPC in 'Wings of the Goddess' who is a Taru, but also shows the exact same 'Bright Eyes, Dark face' look?

Didn't even read the thread honestly, the second I saw it I knew that Tarus were the same character but without the face/gear until they equip/earn it.

Oh, and aren't Waltzes the name given to the similar, but very different, characters in Kingdom Hearts?

It's not Kingdom Hearts Online.

But that would be pretty cool... without the Disney characters. I would hate to wait for ABC to sign off on every update and include the cast of Desperate Housewives as an expansion.


Edit:
(Yeah I played 9, but the KH reference was funnier)



Edited, Jun 15th 2009 1:45am by Shazaamemt
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#57 Jun 19 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Made some slight edits to the poll.

Quote:
If these results are favorable, pray tell... what would an unfavorable result look like?


As I've explained several times, they'd have to look worse than what I'd expect the Galka results to look like pre-FFXI (re: horrendous). 5% or less interested in playing it, less than 25% or so who were even ok with them being in the game.

Ah, well MDenham already addressed it.

Quote:
Anyway, isn't there a NPC in 'Wings of the Goddess' who is a Taru, but also shows the exact same 'Bright Eyes, Dark face' look?

Didn't even read the thread honestly, the second I saw it I knew that Tarus were the same character but without the face/gear until they equip/earn it.

Oh, and aren't Waltzes the name given to the similar, but very different, characters in Kingdom Hearts?


Kind of but not really on the Taru in WotG. Anyway, in FFXI they were supposed to be the "same character" but FFXIV will be a different game. And somewhere between Vivi and Fomor is what I'm aiming for, really.

Not that far in Kingdom Hearts yet (just play it with my little sister when I visit), but somewhat like the Heartless characters too, yes.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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#58 Jun 19 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Default
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Apparently I was being too whimsical in my first post here.

The answer is NO. We have tarus.

It would be cool if those who specialize in black/dark magic end up looking like a waltz/fomor, but as far as a playble race... no.

Unless we make a race for each and every specialization. At which point almost everyone would quit.

So, No.
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#59 Jun 20 2009 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh, don't worry. I understood that that's what you were saying.

I just didn't care.

Still don't, fyi. Lots of people like the idea.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#60 Jun 20 2009 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Oh, don't worry. I understood that that's what you were saying.

I just didn't care.

Still don't, fyi. Lots of people like the idea.


You've still yet to reply to my last comment on the first page where I invited you to stop fighting and give ideas as to how that could be implemented correctly into FFXIV. I'm starting to think you just want to fight.
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#61 Jun 20 2009 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I've already given several ideas and didn't feel responding to your post would add much to the discussion, but since you did bother to check back, I'll address your post specifically.

Also, I have outright said that I enjoy debating this. There's really no mystery there. But I do apologize if I have ever been undeservingly coarse to anyone.
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If you want to suggest it, send the suggestion to Square Enix. If others like it, they can send it too.


I definitely will, but not before I have all the ideas on the table that I think will be relevant to my suggestion. Further, you can expect a followup post to encourage other people to send similar suggestions.

Quote:
There's no point in being so aggressive about it. You like the idea, and those who have posted in this thread don't. Clearly no one's opinion on it is going to change, especially with such a vague idea.


It's not really that vague. It's a new race, which is primarily a visual thing from the player standpoint. There are pictures of similar races all over the internet.

And I'm not really looking to change anyone's mind. Plenty of people like the idea, and I really have never been one to have much faith in people changing their minds with any immediacy. But I will answer all contests to the legitimacy of the idea in support of the people who like the idea.

On to your questions.
Quote:

Would the race be flexible career-wise like any other race, or would there be emphasis on a certain career based on starting stats, etc.?


They would be flexible like any other race, yes. Personally I have never been a fan of making races very career-oriented because I don't think the realism it can offer outweighs the importance of letting players choose their favorite race for aesthetics without consequence.

Quote:
Would they look like fomors or have their own features that make them unique, and if so, what?


I imagine them to be similar to Fomor in some respects. A cross of Fomor and Vivi... somewhat like a short Fomor Hume. They'll have hair (or the option to have hair) and different body/face types, but hair and eyes will probably be the most distinctly different visual characteristics.

Quote:
Would they be on the same side as the rest of the races in present-day Eorzea, despite the history of their relationships with other races, thus allowing them to fight together with them for the storyline?


That really depends more on the story that SE has in mind than I can safely comment on. Since FFXIV is a completely different world, what their role in the world would be is still completely flexible as far as any of us know.

Quote:
If they're not on the same side, would they cause a dispute between races, both story-wise and player-wise, like in World of Warcraft or Warhammer Online, and if they do would there be other "darker" races to go along with that?


I really doubt that SE will go in that direction with FFXIV, but that's certainly a possibility.

Quote:
Would they be able to be part of the same storyline or would the storyline of FFXIV be altered for the race (for example, the archduke in Jeuno probably wouldn't ask for the assistance of a fomor)?


I imagine that they would be as integral to the story of FFXIV as any other race. But Jeuno, the Archduke, and Fomors are not going to have anything to do with FFXIV. As with FFXI, most of the time the races of the main story characters were not particularly important. Their race merely served to shape their character. Ultimately they were a unique person who just happened to be of a particular race. In that sense, even characters that SE had already planned to be a certain race could easily be changed into this race.
Quote:

Would they have their own explorable city? If so, would the city have a darker theme, and what would make the city stand out?


Again this would be up to SE. They have to make these decisions within the context of what they've already created. They wouldn't necessarily have to have their own city, and it wouldn't necessarily have to have a dark theme. In FF9, the Black Mage Village was a peaceful, beautiful country hamlet in a secluded forest.

I didn't address most of your questions previously because they asked things that I have no intention of deciding. There are many directions SE could decide to take with this kind of race, and they'd have to make those decisions with consideration for the world they've already created so that this race could fit into it seamlessly. The possibilities are too numerous to really speculate.

All I'm suggesting is a race with these visual characteristics. Whatever attributes they have beyond that would really be left in the good faith judgments of SE.

Edit: fixed link/grammar errors

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 4:23pm by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#62 Jun 20 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Just to throw my little 2 cents in this discussion, I think the race just would not fit appearance wise with the overall look of the game. I'm going to be a Tarutaru regardless, but that has no bearing on my opinion in this thread. I'm all for new races to please the people that wants them, but the races have to fit appearance wise with the game. Kachi mentioned that its not more cartoonish then moogle in ffxi, but the difference is moogles is not a playable character, the only time you see moogles are during events and in your mog house. Thats way different then having a moogle in your party swinging and fighting with you on a daily basis. I think the Gria race, or whatever the picture is of the girl with horns (in the ffxiv picture), fits appearance wise with the looks of the other races. I would be all for that race being added, I would still be a Tarutaru, but at least that race fits in with the overall game look. Stat wise has to fit also but I think the appearance of the game is more important then the stats you start off with.
#63 Jun 20 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that concern has more or less been addressed. As a few people have mentioned, the look would be similar to that of the Fomor.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#64 Jun 20 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Still just doesn't fit to me, mobs can be crazy looking and stuff they are just mobs, but having ffxi races then a fomor in your party just to me doesn't look right. If the game was just going totally new and ffxi similar races wasn't in it then I would say yea why not, but I just dont see it fitting in appearance wise as a "playable character", maybe an npc or mob.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 9:02pm by HocusP
#65 Jun 20 2009 at 10:13 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Oh, don't worry. I understood that that's what you were saying.

I just didn't care.

Still don't, fyi. Lots of people like the idea.



I felt bad, so I went back to look at the actual poll numbers posted. Despite it being a very imbalanced poll (3 of the choices say 'it should be a playable race', and the only other option is 'No, its a terrible idea and wouldn't work'.) it still seems the majority of people don't like the idea.

Quote:

And now I dislike you for robbing me of the time it took to read this pointless thread.


True.
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#66 Jun 21 2009 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not an unbalanced poll by any account. You seem to think it would have been a better poll if the only options were Yes and No, but that doesn't provide the kind of information I was looking for. Do you think the fact that 3/4 of the options saying Yes makes people 3 times more likely to say Yes or something? How many meaningful ways could someone have responded No?

Really, that assertion is so laughable to anyone who knows anything about polling that I'm having an incredibly difficult time taking your comments seriously.

And whether or not the majority of people like the idea, as I have pointed out MANY times, is irrelevant. What matters is how many people like the idea. I only even put the "No" option to let people who don't like it say so, but all that is really important is that enough people like it.

If you had shown images of Tarutaru, Galka, and good odds on Elvaan and Mithra (as Female only) and polled potential players of FFXI before the release, you would have gotten similar to worse popularity with those races. The bottom line is that even though people often don't like things initially, they grow to accept them quickly.

Now, I'm telling you this as someone who has been on this forum since the FFXI release in NA. Maybe you weren't around so you don't grasp just how unpopular all of those races were with LARGE percentages of the population. And if SE had taken a vote on taking any of those races out of the game based purely on what the majority wanted, odds would be pretty good that we'd all have been playing Hume Fantasy XI. Galka would have been gone for sure.

Aw, here, let me just spell it all out. This is a link to the most recent Vanadiel census. Without regard to gender, this is what percentage of the population plays each race:
31% Hume
30% Tarutaru
18% Elvaan
15.5% Mithra
7.5% Galka

If we go by my poll (which I have already stated is not especially valid), then a Fomor/Waltz race could expect to be roughly as popular as Elvaan, possibly significantly more if a disproportionate percentage of current Elvaan players switched to this race. I think more likely it would steal disproportionately from Tarutaru players, but who knows. We can safely assume that if no other races are released, a large percentage of the players who selected the second option would also choose this race.

FYI, many people initially thought Tarutaru looked like creepy little mutated freaks. Now people think they're cute. People thought Galka were hideous. Now most people have come to accept or even appreciate them. Well, I'm repeating things I've already said... I think I've made my point.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#67 Jun 21 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Default
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I wouldn't mind a new race that looked like that. It's kinda cool.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 2:13am by lambon
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#68 Jun 21 2009 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Answer to Title: No.
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#69 Jun 22 2009 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Koogs wrote:
Cat Sith is just a little black cat with a cape. He was a cat riding a robot. A giant moogle robot, at that. Imagine how popular a either a tiny cat, a moogle robot, or a cat riding a moogle robot would be. That'd be the most played race in the **** game.

Smiley: lol Heheehee... It's funny because it's true. If by some miracle XIV has a giant robot moogle, I'm so all over it.

Sigged, btw...
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#70 Jun 22 2009 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
Not really, I like the idea of plain old flesh and blood die if they bleed too much characters, people if you will.
So no to playable monsters tyvm.
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#71 Jun 23 2009 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I wouldn't play as that race but think it should be a playable race, or at least wouldn't mind if it were.


That was my answer. Yep.
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#72 Jun 23 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Default
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Who knows, they may not even add any new Races at all, just new looks for the old ones. Only time will tell ^^
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#73 Jun 23 2009 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Anything's possible, but it would really but an incredibly dense move. I mean, I would bet a lot of money that there will be at least one new race, because SE is not that stupid when it comes to making games.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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