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Quests and rewards?Follow

#1 Jun 12 2009 at 2:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't find anything regarding quests in FFXIV yet so please forgive me if there's already a thread.

It always bothered me that the normal (not story related) quests in FFXI were kinda superfluous.
There were a few common ones everyone did like chocobo or subjob but most of them weren't worth the time.
It would be nice if these small quests would get more attention and provide some kind of reward for the players. Be it some Exp, crafting materials, gil, equipment, points like CP or skill points for magic or weapons.

Most RPGs use such a quest reward system. WoW might be the most popular example but the rewards you get there are just too much whereas the quest description/story itself is superfluous. This turns the quests into nothing more than a tool to quickly get something.

I think and hope we will see more such small quests in FFXIV as it would fit the planned casual or solo part of the gameplay. Although I'd like to see many quests for partys too.
Just make them a little more rewarding so people might level through questing instead of grinding.
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#2 Jun 12 2009 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Not much info is actually out concerning this yet, of course (only been less then a week). However, I see it as a fine balance. Making the quests story driven made me all the more interested in understanding what was going on. However, while I was interested in what was happening in the quests, I cared less about actually doing them. On the flipside, in WoW quests are reward driven. You'll see people constantly yelling in general chat about details of quests that are clearly described in the quest text because all they read was "Kill x mobs, get reward." We need something in between, but I don't have a simple solution. I hope the FF14 team has one. I would love to do quests both for the story AND the reward.
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#3 Jun 12 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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Why not make quests that have rewards related to the story? One of the big (dumb) problems in WoW is you kill 10 harpies and get a sword or something. Why? What does one have to do with the other? The NPC giving you the quest wasn't a swordsmith... and wouldn't it make more sense if he gave you the sword FIRST and then you kill stuff with it? If you don't do it in like, an hour (or whatever), have the sword disappear. Anyway, that wasn't my point:

My point is, quests should offer rewards that relate to either the quest or the NPC giving it. Look at WoW's achievement system. You can turn any of those things into long-term quests with interesting rewards. "You want this assignment? Prove your worth by <insert weird achievement here that tests a players mettle>".

Travel here, gather these, kill those, escort him and report back to me are all cool once in a while. But they're just four of many options.
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#4 Jun 12 2009 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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The problem with FFXI was that the quest rewards for randoms were just too pointless to do. With a 10gil reward it's not even worth your time to do the quest. Often people only grinded quests so they would have the reputation to get access to jeuno quests or a high ranking quest actually worth doing.

I think they need to make more meaningful quests with better rewards. Giving a little gil is pointless if the quest takes you an hour. I think if they can bump up the rewards a little bit they will keep people with the satisfaction of doing quests for a purpose and feeling good when you finish them, but also rewarding them accordingly.

I agree in WoW they are completely reward/exp driven and stupid stupid stupid. Kill X of Y or gather A of B is 75% of the quests in WoW... very boring. When you first start you might read the quest but when you do you realize it is pointless when there are 2400 quests with the exact same goals...
#5 Jun 12 2009 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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Kharmageddon wrote:

Why not make quests that have rewards related to the story? One of the big (dumb) problems in WoW is you kill 10 harpies and get a sword or something. Why? What does one have to do with the other? The NPC giving you the quest wasn't a swordsmith... and wouldn't it make more sense if he gave you the sword FIRST and then you kill stuff with it? If you don't do it in like, an hour (or whatever), have the sword disappear. Anyway, that wasn't my point:


Well that's not entirely true and this is an indication that there are a whole lot of folks who skip the quest text and just do the quest.

Usually those kinds of quests are because there is a certain mob that is taking over the lands and the quest giver is asking you for help. There is a story there, it's just not presented in Final Fantasy cutscene form so it's overlooked.

There are also some other quests that are pretty entertaining. Last night I was sent on a quest by a dwarf to steal beer from one group of Ogres that were ******* everyone off. So I stole the beer, brought it back, and then was sent on another quest to get a different set of ogres drunk on it.

There are some interesting quests in there, and nobody can deny that the rewards system is much better than what we see in XI. I suspect a better balance of storytelling in true Final Fantasy Fashion mixed with a similar rewards system would put XIV in the dominant slot for years to come.
#6 Jun 12 2009 at 8:23 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
There are some interesting quests in there, and nobody can deny that the rewards system is much better than what we see in XI.


Actually... i can. Their reward system is retarded. It's the opposite of FFXI's. FFXI hardly gave anything and the quests were way too long and tedious.

In WoW the quests are way too common and the rewards are too great. They have an inflation problem post 60 because they decided it would be a good idea for people at max level to get extra gold if they are not getting experience. Then they introduced daily repeatable quests that you also get extra money for.

deny that... their rewards system is just as bad if not worse they are just on the other end of the spectrum.
#7 Jun 12 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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I'd rather have it be on WoW end of the spectrum if I had to choose between the 2 broken tbh. Of course balance would be nice though!

Right now I do the quests in XI for the story.. it's fine for me, but majority of players don't care. Adding more rewards would make more players see the amazing quality cutscenes and storytelling the dev team creates, so I'm all up for that (without going overboard of course).
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#8 Jun 12 2009 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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boriss wrote:
Quote:
There are some interesting quests in there, and nobody can deny that the rewards system is much better than what we see in XI.


Actually... i can. Their reward system is retarded. It's the opposite of FFXI's. FFXI hardly gave anything and the quests were way too long and tedious.

In WoW the quests are way too common and the rewards are too great. They have an inflation problem post 60 because they decided it would be a good idea for people at max level to get extra gold if they are not getting experience. Then they introduced daily repeatable quests that you also get extra money for.

deny that... their rewards system is just as bad if not worse they are just on the other end of the spectrum.


They also have a lot more coded gold sinks in WoW than they do in FFXI. Higher levels of riding training are an enormous gold sink. Vanity mounts can be a very substantial gold sink. Repairs for high quality gear is an ongoing gold sink. Class training at higher levels is a gold sink. Inflation is not really much of an issue. People complain that low level gear is priced way too high on auction which is offset by the fact that you rarely if ever need to buy gear from auction in the process of leveling a character...you got enough from quest rewards to see you through. Gold from daily quests at the level cap was a safeguard against the economy. If you wanted to do a lot of farming/crafting/selling on auction you could, but if you just wanted to earn enough gold to cover your repair costs for your group endeavors you knew exactly how to go about it without having to worry about whether or not the market was in your favor that week.

An abundance of quests just offers some direction to the grind. That's the main reason why the quests exist in any MMO...so that you feel like there's something to do beyond running around (or standing in) the same area for three hours killing everything in sight to progress. Quests are optional, and depending on the game players may or may not be given incentive to complete them with rewards including (but not limited to) rep, currency, xp, and items/gear. The WoW leveling system is quest driven, and yes there is a significant amount of repetition on different themes (kill <x> mob, gather <y> item, etc.) but it still ends up being more diverse than travel to <zone> and kill <mobs> until you gain a level.
#9 Jun 12 2009 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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Besides, the grinding on x mob to complete y quest is exactly what you do in FFXI without the quest.

#10 Jun 12 2009 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It always bothered me that the normal (not story related) quests in FFXI were kinda superfluous.
There were a few common ones everyone did like chocobo or subjob but most of them weren't worth the time.

By story-related do you mean only the main storyline and expansions?

That might be true for people that don't play FFXI for the story, but a lot of the least rewarding side quests had great storylines to go with them. I often completed quest lines just to see the conclusion of the story that went with them, not because they offered anything substantial in the form of items or gil. That's part of what makes FFXI a better MMO than others out there; there's a lot of emphasis and attention paid to the setting and story, even the ones that are unimportant to the main storylines in the game.

That said, it'd be nice to get a little bit of Exp for completing it, but not enough to make people want to complete the quest just because doing so nets an amount of Exp comparable to leveling. It shouldn't be about completing it entirely for a tangible reward. I hate people that do quests just for the rewards and skip over the story. If those people had it their way, every quest would contain 3 lines of dialogue and a big fat pay-off at the end.
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#11 Jun 12 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I cant begin to guess at how many times i killed Bubbly Bernie for that **** clock. This is how I made my gil as a noob before I could farm competently. lol.
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#12 Jun 12 2009 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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If those people had it their way, every quest would contain 3 lines of dialogue and a big fat pay-off at the end.


That's what WoW feels like to me. Yeah, every quest has a little bit of a story with it. But it's always some pop-culture reference, or some laughable situation or whatever. There's never a sense of urgency for a quest in WoW. Even the few quests that are actually timed give you an ample amount to get the task done.
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#13 Jun 12 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Kharmageddon wrote:

That's what WoW feels like to me. Yeah, every quest has a little bit of a story with it. But it's always some pop-culture reference, or some laughable situation or whatever. There's never a sense of urgency for a quest in WoW. Even the few quests that are actually timed give you an ample amount to get the task done.


So it would be better for every quest to have a 5 minute cutscene at the beginning and end, complete with voice overlay that you cannot click out of, and should require an optimal party setup for it to be completed in the time allotment, and even then you are down to the wire?

I mean if we want to come down to it there is no sense of urgency in XI either. The world didn't end just because I didn't get round to killing the Shadowlord until a year into playing.

As far as pop culture references, **** FFXI is loaded with them too. Some of you make these comments like it's a bad thing to relate to every day life, and that WoW is the only one who does it.


#14 Jun 12 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Can't we have both? The cutscenes/story AND decent rewards? At least more decent than 10 gil or nothing?
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#15 Jun 12 2009 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think people are talking realistically about quests. If every single quest had a cutscene and some huge storyline the developers would never finish the game. WoW's system makes sense. There are a number of larger quests that have either cutscenes or some sort of special action from game and also a number of smaller quests that give some storyline but are mainly there to facilitate leveling. Now I'm NOT saying FFXIV should copy wow's system but it could take a few tips from WoW.
#16 Jun 12 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I think FFXI's quests were fine. The only problem was rewards and lack of direction. Where in a game like WoW they tell you exactly where to go FFXI didn't say anything except "oh find my missing dog" sometimes. They were very cryptic to the point where you depended on a strategy guide.

If they can add a bit more support and more rewards (like honestly 10-100gil for some quests? that buys nothing). They could have adjusted it with a patch too but they chose not to.
#17 Jun 12 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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I enjoy the quests as presented in FFXI. Between quests for maps, jobs, Ranks & Missions, AF, non-farmable spells, on and on...I think that there is plenty of reward. I enjoy the story line that goes along with most of them as well.

How much do people want for turning in 2 bat wings to an NPC...1000 gil, 2000? On the same note, I dont think that an EXP reward fits with that type of quest; how does turning in an item make you a better combatant? Most of the quests with negligible rewards are the repeatable ones anyway and theyre that way so that the quest isnt abused. Theyre for a few extra gil when you are starting out, they arent there to make you rich.

Edit: I agree with the post above me however and would like to see some degree of direction when appropriate. Im not talking about an arrow that shows you exactly where to go/who to speak to, but maybe a general description of where to look. FFXI is the first game I ever used a guide on and I think it takes away a little by needing to run off to the computer and check how to complete a quest.

Edited, Jun 12th 2009 2:58pm by Foreverdrg
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#18 Jun 12 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Well, the way XI's quest system works is that most quests are part of a series of quests that tell a story. While the early quests in the series generally offer little to nothing in reward, the later ones usually do culminate into something more worthwhile. While I wouldn't mind seeing greater rewards, I do like that this scaling of rewards through a series encourages people to complete the series thereby getting the story rather than just sticking to the early quests (which are generally simpler) just for the rewards.

Personally I do quests in XI primarily for rewards, either I find an item I want and discover it comes from a quest so I do it, or I end up with some ra/ex item in my inventory and look it up to discover that it's used in a quest and I can get 10-20k~ for completing it so I do it. Even though the tangible rewards aren't always worth the time invested (ie by the time you finish the ****** quests to get a Promise Badge you could easily have farmed enough gil to buy 1000 Promise Badges off the AH), the quality of the stories make it feel like my time wasn't wasted.

Now, XI already has taken a page from WoW's quest reward system, they've just done it SE's way. Campaign Ops is a free 3k EXP per week (and that's if you just stick to the easiest ones), and FoV is much the same as go kill X amount of Y mob. I would fully expect to see them elaborate on these types of repeatable reward systems without detracting from the more story driven quest lines.

Quote:
Just make them a little more rewarding so people might level through questing instead of grinding.


Having some supplemental EXP through quests is great but it has to be limited (like a cap per week similar to Campaign Ops), or completed through battle (like FoV and ENMs and some Campaign Ops). I don't want some guy in my endgame LS who has no idea what he's doing because the only thing he did to get max level was run from NPC to NPC bringing beer to Ogres.
#19 Jun 12 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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i'm hoping they come up with something none of us will think up. Surprise us!!

on a side note, this topic did get me thinking about something. Vendor type NPC's. I'd like it if the Vendor NPC's would have supply request quests for everyone to do. And if players weren't doing them, the vendors wouldn't have stock of equipment or as good of equipment. This would give everyone something to do on the side to make extra cash and help out the server.
#20 Jun 12 2009 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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I always got the feeling that the reason quests in FFXI rewarded so little gil was designed that way so not to interfere with the player-based economy. If players could make tons of gil from quests, they would be less motivated to farm items or craft items to sell or auction, etc.
#21 Jun 13 2009 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
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Gatero wrote:
By story-related do you mean only the main storyline and expansions?

That might be true for people that don't play FFXI for the story, but a lot of the least rewarding side quests had great storylines to go with them.

Yes I mean the main storyline.
Don't get me wrong. I like the side quests too especially for the storys they tell but I wouldn't mind if they were more rewarding. I don't want to feel cheated when I get 100gil for 2 hours of my time even if I do it for the story.
Feels like NPCs would abuse you lol.

boriss wrote:
I think FFXI's quests were fine. The only problem was rewards and lack of direction. Where in a game like WoW they tell you exactly where to go FFXI didn't say anything except "oh find my missing dog" sometimes. They were very cryptic to the point where you depended on a strategy guide.

That is a VERY good point.
It would be nice if they gave you at least some clues as where you have to go next to advance to the next step of the quest.

As most of you already stated. It would be nice to get a decent compensation of some sort for our troubles.
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