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#1 Jun 13 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I think one of the reasons i liked FFXI so much was the fact taht you HAD to group and couldnt solo with ease.

I liked it because it always gave me an excuse to do other stuff instead of thinking that i should be levelling while searching for a group. To me with this solo levelling thing i really hope that its either much worse than group levelling or they implement something to get around this because i enjoyed my inbetween party breaks of sorting out my mog house and sorting out my sales on the AH while waiting.

might be just me but thought id try get my point accross lol :)
#2 Jun 13 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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The problem comes when you want to group but you can't and you aren't able to accomplish things u want to do.
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#3 Jun 13 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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I thought about this, and decided that I like grouping for faster EXP gain (at least 2x for an ideal group as opposed to solo, but solo EXP should be a viable option at any level. In FFXI, solo grind scales upward in difficulty while party grind is nearly untouched.). Also, I prefer grouping for "raids", whatever they'll be called in this game. Anything where you take down a massive enemy or do an event that rewards you with top-tier desirable gear.

Soloing I prefer in a couple of instances as well. One, story-driven missions and quests. These often involve unlocking areas you wouldn't otherwise be able to go to. I don't know how many people I've truly felt sorry for who were like "I don't have star road because I can't find a party." You should be able to unlock any area through solo efforts, even if that area exclusively contains party content. It's something you can do on your own time.

And on the vein of story advancement, it should also be solo, because it gives you time to actually enjoy the story as it unfolds. You're not sitting there trying to read this back-story information on the giant crater that forms much of the Hana'mata'tai'hen continent while everyone else is saying "Ready!" and "Casting Stonehusk 2!" clogging up your chat log. Or worse, a timed battlefield where you have to smash through the story so you have more time to actually fight.

Regardless, I believe strongly in group-oriented content, because that's an MMO. But at the same time, you should give people the option of being able to catch up with their friends if they don't have time for party content. Now, that Dracula Cloak +8 isn't required so that you can play with your friends, so it should rely somewhat on group mechanics, but being able to enter the Kak'faa Battlegrounds is, and shouldn't take a S.W.A.T. team to unlock.

Edited, Jun 13th 2009 6:32pm by BeastmenLord
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#4 Jun 13 2009 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And on the vein of story advancement, it should also be solo, because it gives you time to actually enjoy the story as it unfolds. You're not sitting there trying to read this back-story information on the giant crater that forms much of the Hana'mata'tai'hen continent while everyone else is saying "Ready!" and "Casting Stonehusk 2!" clogging up your chat log. Or worse, a timed battlefield where you have to smash through the story so you have more time to actually fight.


I have to disagree. I can see your point as far as taking time away on a timed battlefield or rushing through the story but those seem like simple enough fixes, ie if time didnt start until everybody was out of the cutscene etc. Plus in FFXI you could go back and re-pwatch the cutscenes in a zone at anytime you chose. Not to say that there cant be missions that can be solo'd or done in a smaller group but I think that so much of the fun comes from going off as a party to kill that final boss and experiencing it together. How lame would it be if somebody like Promathia was able to be solo'd...meh, no thanks.

Of course, some story elements would lend themselves well to being solo'd. For example, battles related to your job or gaining abilities through solo battles where you need to prove yourself would be a neat idea.

Now as for your comments on Solo exp vs group exp I do agree with you. Because the game IS a MMORPG I believe the incentive to party in a group should be there to teach everybody how to interact with the various jobs and become familiar with group battles; I think about 2-3 times more than solo exp on an hourly basis is appropriate. That way it is still fair for those that dont have time to find a party and play for hours everyday and it allows them to still progress at a reasonable rate.
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#5 Jun 13 2009 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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abzzuk wrote:
I liked it because it always gave me an excuse to do other stuff instead of thinking that i should be levelling while searching for a group.

You can still do the exact same thing if solo leveling were viable. If you like crafting while searching for a group, then I don't think anyone should stop you from doing that. However, I also don't think you should force thousands of players into groups for everything just to assuage the feeling of "man, I should be gaining levels."

Lack of solo content was one of FFXI's biggest problems, and SE clearly has begun attempting to address that issue.
#6 Jun 13 2009 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I think solo play should be an option but not the requirement. That means you should get more xp in a group than you would ever by yourself. Solo should be there for people who don't have a lot of time or just want to play alone.
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#7 Jun 13 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
I think solo play should be an option but not the requirement. That means you should get more xp in a group than you would ever by yourself. Solo should be there for people who don't have a lot of time or just want to play alone.


No, I have to take issue with that. If I'm holding my own and chewing through mobs at a steady clip while solo, there's absolutely no justifiable reason why people in a party should develop faster than me by default. There has to be a balance that means a crappy party will achieve less than an efficient solo player. Anything else would be directly contrary to the "do what you want" philosophy SE mentioned.
#8Squallido, Posted: Jun 13 2009 at 6:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What's the point on playing MMOs then
#9 Jun 13 2009 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
No, I have to take issue with that. If I'm holding my own and chewing through mobs at a steady clip while solo, there's absolutely no justifiable reason why people in a party should develop faster than me by default. There has to be a balance that means a crappy party will achieve less than an efficient solo player. Anything else would be directly contrary to the "do what you want" philosophy SE mentioned.


The justifiable reason is that this is a MMORPG and the point of the game is to work together. If somebody doesnt want to party for exp all the time, thats fine. I played FFXI as DRG in 2004 and was forced to solo most of my levels from 40-60, so I know all about having to solo. Odds are though that at endgame its going to be teamwork that gets those players the gear, missions, titles that they want, so I think that the benefit to learning to work together in a party is there and should be reflected in the EXP/hour.

That being said, there were plenty of parties that I had in FFXI that just didnt work out the way anybody would have liked and I could have easily surpassed by being on my own and soloing so the idea that a party should ALWAYS surpass solo is wrong too. However, when we're talking about a good group, killing at a decent rate, then yes in my opinion EXP should favor group play, just not to such an extent that it makes solo players feel like theyre wasting their time.

Edited, Jun 13th 2009 10:56pm by Foreverdrg
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#10 Jun 13 2009 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Squallido wrote:
Quote:
Solo should be there for people who don't have a lot of time or just want to play alone.

What's the point on playing MMOs then


Really, it's none of your business why someone would want to play an MMO if they're not interested in grouping all the time. It's none of your business why they choose to play solo or how often they choose the solo option vs. the group option. People don't buy the game and pay their subscription to meet your standards or your criteria for playing an MMO. They pay to play for their own reasons and provided their behavior isn't disruptive to the rest of the community, what they do is not your concern.
#11 Jun 13 2009 at 7:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Foreverdrg wrote:
Quote:
No, I have to take issue with that. If I'm holding my own and chewing through mobs at a steady clip while solo, there's absolutely no justifiable reason why people in a party should develop faster than me by default. There has to be a balance that means a crappy party will achieve less than an efficient solo player. Anything else would be directly contrary to the "do what you want" philosophy SE mentioned.


The justifiable reason is that this is a MMORPG and the point of the game is to work together.


No, that's your reason for playing an MMORPG. You don't get to define the reasons anyone else plays. It's not an MGORPG. It's an MMORPG. Massively Multiplayer does not mean Massively Multiplayer In a Group.
#12 Jun 13 2009 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Because relying purely on yourself and your skillset is a great rush in soloing and brings great excitement and rewards (not dying). BST was the last job I picked up in FFXI and I wish it was my first. Pre-leave was a ***** but there are plenty of camps that have zones nearby pre-leave. There is no-one to blame except yourself in any death situation. I got to camp in exotic locations. I remember spending 20 minutes swapping pets getting out of hairy situations without dying. And that rush is insane! Charming off links on partys always cracked me up as I ran by, especially "teh dunes" of all places.

I also plan a secondary job for pure party play but hope it can compliment BST multi-job equipment. I hate to carry sets of armor around. Charm and melee/accuracy/attack gear became a headache to carry. Higher attack gear stayed in the MH unless party play (have to keep hate balanced between pet and me). Accuracy stayed piled on as a miss could result in death if something went awry.

I learned more about enemies then in any party play. I learned to not feel helpless and to never give up... And my controller went sailing against the wall a couple of times also.
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#13 Jun 13 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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I found the solo speed of Beastmaster pretty good in FFXI, it was fast paced enough to not feel like you were banging your head against a wall. It also was not as fast as a good party, but was faster than say a group that killed slow or wiped a few times.

BST also had the risk factor, a bad pull or two could set you back quite a bit. Aside from that, I would party with my BST in a second rather than solo. It was more fun and also a bit faster. One reason this ended up being my first level 75 job was the flexibility it offered, if BST had not had such a taboo rep in groups I would have partied most of my levels.

Point being, the speed of BST solo compaired to Group grind I felt was a decent balance. 1) You could solo and gain levels/skills if you only had a short time to play, 2) You 'wanted' to group for many reasons and probably would not pass up the chance to group.

Course the problem with BST is it was the only class that had this flexibility for the most part. The trick would be giving all jobs a similar way of soloing (not talking pets of course) as BST could. Heck if my other jobs could have soloed half as well as my BST I might have had a few more 75s haha.

Edited, Jun 13th 2009 10:27pm by Dorgon
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#14 Jun 13 2009 at 7:39 PM Rating: Default
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AureliusSir wrote:
dyvidd wrote:
I think solo play should be an option but not the requirement. That means you should get more xp in a group than you would ever by yourself. Solo should be there for people who don't have a lot of time or just want to play alone.


No, I have to take issue with that. If I'm holding my own and chewing through mobs at a steady clip while solo, there's absolutely no justifiable reason why people in a party should develop faster than me by default. There has to be a balance that means a crappy party will achieve less than an efficient solo player. Anything else would be directly contrary to the "do what you want" philosophy SE mentioned.


(-.-) Fine, I'll play your game even though I know that it will turn into a very long and drawn out thread about how you just want to solo and not party........

(Hypothetical here)
Solo you kill one mob equal to you level that is worth 200xp. It takes you 1 minute to kill it with the game mechanics in place .

Scenario 1. My party kills a mob 5 levels above our for 600xp. It also takes us 1 minute.

Scenario 2. My party kills 3 mobs at our level for 200xp each. It takes us 20 to kill one or 1 minute to kill all 3.

Scenario 3. Your Balance issue. My party sucks and 3 mobs at our level kills the party. We have to wait for death penalty to fade, xp slows to a crawl, and solo would be faster just like it is in FFXI right now....

Now before you start to preach how you want to solo SE has already stated how FFXIV will be:
Quote:
SE: Yes, all of that knowledge and experience that we got from FFXI we plan on using in the development of FFXIV. As you know, FFXI was originally designed for party battles, but for FFXIV we would like to, at launch, have content for solo players as well as extremely large battles (many, many players all fighting together). So, a wide variety rather than just focusing on same party mechanic.

Quote:
Career loners will be happy to know solo play is getting a lot more attention this time around. However, the developers are still going to have a lot for parties to do. The core concept is growth through one's natural, everyday activities. Perhaps you solo a lot of quests, maybe you meet some people and band together against evil. it's all about enjoying the game in your own way, and developing as you see fit. Here, Tanaka chimes in to express his preference for balanced parties, as opposed to everyone meleeing at once. When designing the party system, he made sure it would facilitate more strategic setups, where everyone can play their respective role.
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#15 Jun 13 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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dyvidd wrote:

(-.-) Fine, I'll play your game even though I know that it will turn into a very long and drawn out thread about how you just want to solo and not party........


Ugh...thick fanbois are thick.

I like both. I like group play. I like having lots to do when no group is available without feeling like I'm missing out on the bulk of the game. Both. Not just solo. Both.

Both options, dyvidd. Solo and group.

Two options. I like both of them.

Option #1 is solo.
Option #2 is group.

I like option #1 and option #2.

Both.

Most MMO players are like that.

Savvy?
#16 Jun 13 2009 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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dyvidd wrote:
Solo you kill one mob equal to you level that is worth 200xp. It takes you 1 minute to kill it with the game mechanics in place .

Scenario 1. My party kills a mob 5 levels above our for 600xp. It also takes us 1 minute.

Scenario 2. My party kills 3 mobs at our level for 200xp each. It takes us 20 to kill one or 1 minute to kill all 3.

Scenario 3. Your Balance issue. My party sucks and 3 mobs at our level kills the party. We have to wait for death penalty to fade, xp slows to a crawl, and solo would be faster just like it is in FFXI right now....

I'm not sure what you think you have proved here. How have you proved solo is faster in this scenario? You haven't even stated how many party members exp is divided between.
dyvidd wrote:
Now before you start to preach how you want to solo SE has already stated how FFXIV will be:

You might as well linked to developer commentary saying "The game will be beautiful," and then say 'see, it will be a good looking game because they said so.'

I've seen many MMORPGs, and even more games of all varieties, go through the development process. The majority of information released about these games is simply marketing. It's chatter. It means next to nothing. Concretes are all that you can count on, and even then you can't always count on that.

There is no real way to know what leveling will be like in FFXIV. Even if developers felt like disclosing exact numbers--which they rarely do--on how fast one can kill a mob, how much exp a typical mob gives, and exp needed for each level, even if we had all the information they have it would still be speculation. It is impossible to know what players will come up with and how they will exploit the system to min/max it.

All that developer commentary tells us at this point is what they are aiming at. What they will actually hit remains a complete mystery.

Edited, Jun 13th 2009 10:54pm by Allegory
#17 Jun 13 2009 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
dyvidd wrote:

(-.-) Fine, I'll play your game even though I know that it will turn into a very long and drawn out thread about how you just want to solo and not party........


Ugh...thick fanbois are thick.

I like both. I like group play. I like having lots to do when no group is available without feeling like I'm missing out on the bulk of the game. Both. Not just solo. Both.

Both options, dyvidd. Solo and group.

Two options. I like both of them.

Option #1 is solo.
Option #2 is group.

I like option #1 and option #2.

Both.

Most MMO players are like that.

Savvy?
Then how come every time a thread like this comes along I've only seen you talk about solo this and solo that. Never have I seen you say one thing about group play. You say that it needs to be balance, where is your ideas of balance, what are your rewards for group play, how would you make solo and group equal instead of one over the other? Instead of coming on the boards, picking about others thread and calling them fanboys how about you be constructive, not quote anyone, and just post your ideas?

Quote:
Scenario 3. Your Balance issue. My party sucks and 3 mobs at our level kills the party. We have to wait for death penalty to fade, xp slows to a crawl, and solo would be faster just like it is in FFXI right now....

I'm not sure what you think you have proved here. How have you proved solo is faster in this scenario? You haven't even stated how many party members exp is divided between.
Simple math, if your party wipes and takes 5mins for death penalties to fade, that's 600xp every 5mins. Solo you are getting 200xp/1min, that's 1000xp every 5mins. In this case solo > group.

I've played both FFXI and WoW, seen both sides of the coin. I know in FFXI I've left many a PT because I know I could get faster xp soloing. I've also played a few other MMOs in between. **** I'm also reading up on SWTOR to because I'm a Star Wars fan too, in fact think FFXIV is just SE's cruel joke on me since SWTOR is slated for 2010 too. SWG came out 6 months before FFXI and ultimately I played FF over SW but that's another story.

Edited, Jun 13th 2009 10:13pm by dyvidd
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#18 Jun 13 2009 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to act all crazy & say soloing in FFXI was perfectly fine, if you knew what you were doing. And the way they implemented it kept it from ever surpassing a good party's XP/hour while still maintaining an acceptable rate. It just required initiative on the player's part.(I'll also admit that I hope they ease up on the time required to hit your max level in a given job)

Beastmaster pets - Same XP as a normal mob their level, same offensive ability, but a fraction of the HP & they were spread apart. I had no problems chaining 4-8k/hour on any job from about level 20-70ish. And at the same time, no party would touch them because they didn't pop fast enough to burn.

Flans, Imps, & Hpemde were also amazing solo/duo XP. Guaranteed 4-10k/hour if you knew what you were doing.

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 12:23am by Jobangles
#19 Jun 13 2009 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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dyvidd wrote:
Then how come every time a thread like this comes along I've only seen you talk about solo this ans solo that. Never have I see you say one thing about group play. You say that it needs to be balance where is your ideas of balance, what are you rewards for group play, how would you make solo and group equal instead of one over the other? Instead of coming on the boards, picking about others thread and calling them fanboys how about you be constructive, not quote anyone, and just post your ideas?


Because you don't read everything that is written. I have been constructive. I've lost count of how many times I've pointed out that I advocate diversity with a balance of both options to keep everyone happy, only to have some thick twit come back and tell me that I only want to solo yadda yadda yadda.

I'm not responsible for your inability to read plain English as it's displayed in front of you.
#20 Jun 13 2009 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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dyvidd wrote:
how would you make solo and group equal instead of one over the other?

He stated that character development should be an equitable rate in both situations. So, for example, there should not be significant disparity in the exp you get in group versus solo.
dyvidd wrote:
Simple math, if your party wipes and takes 5mins for death penalties to fade, that's 600xp every 5mins. Solo you are getting 200xp/1min, that's 1000xp every 5mins. In this case solo > group.

There are two problems with that.

1. You have considered wipes as something that only happens in exp parties, and you're mostly expecting it to happen. Solo players can wipe too. There's not difference between the 5 minute death penalty each party member gets in a group wipe and the 5 minute death penalty a soloer gets when he goofs up.

2. It's a hypothetical scenario, which means you made up the numbers. You can make soloing or grouping more viable by setting the number however you want in the scenario.

Finally, you haven't said anything that counters what Aurelius has said. Your hypothetical scenario is an example where solo > group. That's not what various said he wanted. He wants equitable play in solo and in a group. He wants a situation where solo = group.

Edited, Jun 13th 2009 11:51pm by Allegory
#21 Jun 13 2009 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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But group cannot exist if solo = group, because solo is easier to start.
#22 Jun 13 2009 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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Jobangles wrote:
But group cannot exist if solo = group, because solo is easier to start.

Then you make groups just as easy to start.

It also doesn't have to be exactly symmetrical, but it should be at least equitable. Grouping might need slightly higher exp gain to compensate for the time required to set up a group, but at the end of the day whether the player chose to spend their time grouping or soloing they should end up with a similar amount of exp.
#23mpmaley, Posted: Jun 13 2009 at 9:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Solo exp should never be as fast as group exp. The game is an MMO, if you don't want to be w/ other people play a single player RPG.
#24 Jun 13 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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mpmaley wrote:
Solo exp should never be as fast as group exp. The game is an MMO, if you don't want to be w/ other people play a single player RPG.


Your reasons for playing are your reasons. You don't get to dictate what other peoples' reasons should be. There are many, many ways to interact with other players in an MMO without grouping for everything.
#25Foreverdrg, Posted: Jun 13 2009 at 11:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Im sorry but yes, the purpose of an MMORPG IS to create a world where players interact and adventure in an environment where they need to work together and nothing you or anybody else says is going to change that. Not everybody needs to take advantage of that fact and is free to play as they choose, **** they dont need to use the Auction House either but they should know that NPCing stuff will result in a loss because the intention is to create interaction and commerce between players.
#26Maldavian, Posted: Jun 13 2009 at 11:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The fun thing about all this fight between solo and group is that in the end everyone that solos will have to bend over and join group activities if they want to achieve something more when hitting max level. Yes, that even applies to WoW, the most solo friendly MMORPG on this planet :D
#27 Jun 13 2009 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Foreverdrg wrote:
Quote:
Your reasons for playing are your reasons. You don't get to dictate what other peoples' reasons should be. There are many, many ways to interact with other players in an MMO without grouping for everything.

Im sorry but yes, the purpose of an MMORPG IS to create a world where players interact and adventure in an environment where they need to work together and nothing you or anybody else says is going to change that.


You're wrong. You're expressing an opinion as fact. The purpose of an MMOG is to create a game environment that is occupied by many different players simultaneously. The purpose is to provide entertainment. That is all. Within that world are usually options to group together, but that's not the "purpose".

Quote:
Another reason solo EXP should not be equal to party EXP rate is because there are other perks that players receive while playing solo. This is all subject to the changes in gameplay in FFXIV but in FFXI a solo player was able to keep all crystals, crafting materials, beastmen and kindred seals, plus skill up things like parrying/evasion more efficiently.


Yes, but how fast is that solo player going to kill relative to a group? You can't make poor/mediocre performance in a group a more desirable alternative to good performance solo simply because you took the time to form the group. That's fundamentally backwards and leads to a more inept playerbase that reaches end-game and is clueless because the game rewarded them for sucking simply because they chose one development method over another.
#28 Jun 13 2009 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maldavian wrote:
I just hope that you don’t get bored to death when you have you max level char, since in the end, just like in WoW, there is nothing to do solo wise once you reach max level.


We don't know that...they may just have endgame solo stuff. Besides...I don't think anyone posting in this whole forum has ever said they only want to solo.
#29 Jun 13 2009 at 11:51 PM Rating: Default
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Maldavian wrote:
I just hope that you don’t get bored to death when you have you max level char, since in the end, just like in WoW, there is nothing to do solo wise once you reach max level.


We don't know that...they may just have endgame solo stuff. Besides...I don't think anyone posting in this whole forum has ever said they only want to solo.


I won’t bother arguing with you as to why you can’t have end game solo content since it has been covered in a lot of other posts.
#30 Jun 13 2009 at 11:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I solo my exp, and I do events and endgame in groups with close trusted friends/ls mates (pet jobs only). I hardly ever do anything in pickup groups (too much drama and too much fail). This is just the way some of us roll. We don't care if people respect it. An mmo is whatever the players want it to be, sometimes in spite of the dev's vision. I don't get where all of this hatred for soloists comes from. But rest assured, we will always exist and we will always find ways to solo. Just because a game is an mmo, does not mean we have to conform to the standards of (or play with) strangers.
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#31 Jun 13 2009 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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I hope FFXIV lets all classes solo within reasonable time up to the cap level.
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#32 Jun 14 2009 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Soloing should always be a viable alternative, but it should never ever be nearly as effective as group play. It breeds antisocial behavior, effectively killing any MMORPGs community. I wouldn't have played XI nearly as long as I did if it had the empty feel WoW manages to pull off even with it's millions of subscribers.

Quote:
I just hope that you don’t get bored to death when you have you max level char, since in the end, just like in WoW, there is nothing to do solo wise once you reach max level.


I actually used to solo sky NMs, Limbus, merits, etc in my free time.
#33 Jun 14 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Default
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Jobangles wrote:
Soloing should always be a viable alternative, but it should never ever be nearly as effective as group play. It breeds antisocial behavior, effectively killing any MMORPGs community. I wouldn't have played XI nearly as long as I did if it had the empty feel WoW manages to pull off even with it's millions of subscribers.

Quote:
I just hope that you don’t get bored to death when you have you max level char, since in the end, just like in WoW, there is nothing to do solo wise once you reach max level.


I actually used to solo sky NMs, Limbus, merits, etc in my free time.


As a beastmaster or ?
#34 Jun 14 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I used RDM, NIN, or BLM depending on what I wanted to get done. Sometimes PLD for things like T1 Sea pops.
#35 Jun 14 2009 at 6:54 AM Rating: Default
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Jobangles wrote:
I used RDM, NIN, or BLM depending on what I wanted to get done. Sometimes PLD for things like T1 Sea pops.


I stopped playing since 2004 and at that time the only viable way was BST.
#36 Jun 14 2009 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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guys look at the trailer again
bsts way of soloing is gone
that one litle bit of gameplay shows a galka ripping thru squid type mobs with a hit

if u look in the background u can also see an elvaan female with a sword (looks like a noob sword might be the bronze sword) killing a squid in like 5 hits.

u can expect this game to be fast paced where monsters have little heath and defense and u can rip thru a couple dozen in a min or two. that trailer gives us a glimps of what we can expect when it comes to PvE. 1-6 of us vs 20-30 of them at one time.

unlike ff11 where mobs took forever to die due to it having crazy high def and agi which forced u to use sushi and the like.
#37 Jun 14 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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It may very well be a cutscene. And in cutscenes the NPC's tend to one shot mobs.
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#38 Jun 14 2009 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Pretty sure it's a cutscene. And while we'll be able to fight multiple mobs at a time, I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it'll be anywhere near 20-30 at a time.
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#39 Jun 14 2009 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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its gameplay.

SE stated somewhere that the trailer had CG footage and gameplay footage in it. hence the drop in graphics quality that u see.
ill try to get the source

bam

Quote:
Q: How much of the first trailer is in-game versus pre-rendered?
A: The debut trailer is actually a mixture of real-time in-game footage and pre-rendered wizardry. The combat scene in particular was created using the in-game engine.


http://www.finalfantasy14-online.com/forum/question-and-answer.php <--- source

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 12:06pm by Leyego
#40 Jun 14 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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Cutscene using the game engine. There's a difference. Like what most of the cutscenes in FFXI were. They used the FFXI engine, not CG.
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#41 Jun 14 2009 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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Exactly, "in-game" can mean both cs and gameplay :D.
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#42 Jun 14 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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One of the things I hated about FFXI was that you practically HAD to group to get anywhere. I feel that solo should be a viable option (not as fast as grouping obviously). I would often sit, as everyone did, waiting hours for a group, to then get a group and it be terrible or disbands shortly after. What would be great was if you were able to solo while you waited for a group. Get a little exp so your time isn't wasted.

I'm not saying that you should be able to solo to endgame, or NM's or any of that stuff, just that you should be able to do it if you wanted to...without having to be the correct class (ie BST). This would also make farming a little more fun too. Instead of having to kill EP and below, you could farm and earn decent XP at the same time.

That being said, solo should never replace grouping. Grouping is what MMO's are all about after all, but I feel that we do need the ability to not group if we want to.
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#43 Jun 14 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Default
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That being said, solo should never replace grouping. Grouping is what MMO's are all about after all, but I feel that we do need the ability to not group if we want to.


As long as it's "I don't want to group up sometimes", and not "ever", then it's reasonable.
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#44 Jun 15 2009 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I wonder if the game will have two different sets of weapon/magic/defense skills. Maybe one set for soloist and another for to be used on teams. Of course the team set will inherit the solo skill set. I see it as a way to enable soloing and to award those who want to team with the ability to learn new skills instead of awarding extra XP/hour.
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#45 Jun 15 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Although I don't agree with WoWs end-game structure (it's very limited and linear), I think their team vs. solo mechanic works out well. When you're on a team, you get less XP per kill to counteract the fact that you're killing more/faster. Teams can take out stronger monsters which would then yield better loot. I think the system makes sense and works well.
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#46 Jun 15 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXI is the same way, party play(unless it's amazing) is only worth it when the solo camps are crowded. Otherwise you get stuck looking for members to fill certain roles, and it just gets to be too much of a hassle. Why spend forever trying to get a full PT as thief if I can solo 5k in AF right now?

That sounds so different than how I wanted to put it. What I mean to say is that not giving party play an overwhelming advantage compared to solo will make it obsolete, even if it's better overall. FFXI only avoided solo trends because it had huge support for parties, and very few solo camps. WoW's support for casual solo play on the other hand basically killed grouping. Speaking of XP only, I don't know much about WoW end game.

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 4:54pm by Jobangles
#47 Jun 15 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:

Solo should be there for people who don't have a lot of time or just want to play alone.


What's the point on playing MMOs then


Maybe he just likes the MMO part of the game for the social interaction, and the world economy, trading, etc. Not so much for getting a big group together to do an individual goal?
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#48 Jun 15 2009 at 12:53 PM Rating: Default
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Maybe he just likes the MMO part of the game for the social interaction


How's that gonna happen if you play by yourself? o_o
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#49 Jun 15 2009 at 12:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Kharmageddon wrote:
Although I don't agree with WoWs end-game structure (it's very limited and linear), I think their team vs. solo mechanic works out well. When you're on a team, you get less XP per kill to counteract the fact that you're killing more/faster. Teams can take out stronger monsters which would then yield better loot. I think the system makes sense and works well.


Actually, you get an XP bonus for being grouped.

And still, 99% of the game population doesn't group for XP, outside of being power leveled/exploiting low level instances for XP.

Part of this is because you get so much XP for questing. It's hard to find some one who has all the same quests that you do, and go through them all together. Sometimes you'll see people group up when they all need to kill the same mobs, but that's about it.
#50 Jun 15 2009 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to buy this game regardless of how this is implemented, but if players are consistantly turning party invites down because they'd rather play by themselves, then I won't last past the first month. I just don't see the point of paying to play a game where I have no friends and there's no community, all because I was forced to spend my play time solo. I can do that for free in countless other games that I already own. Any MMO that does not place an emphasis on group content or require cooperation in some way will end with everyone off in their own corner barely interacting unless forced to. I've already experienced this anit-social behavoir in several different MMO's with solo content.

If MMO's aren't about cooperation and playing together, then you've just got a single player game with a glorified chat channel attached.

#51 Jun 15 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
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Jobangles wrote:
FFXI is the same way, party play(unless it's amazing) is only worth it when the solo camps are crowded. Otherwise you get stuck looking for members to fill certain roles, and it just gets to be too much of a hassle. Why spend forever trying to get a full PT as thief if I can solo 5k in AF right now?

That sounds so different than how I wanted to put it. What I mean to say is that not giving party play an overwhelming advantage compared to solo will make it obsolete, even if it's better overall. FFXI only avoided solo trends because it had huge support for parties, and very few solo camps. WoW's support for casual solo play on the other hand basically killed grouping. Speaking of XP only, I don't know much about WoW end game.

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 4:54pm by Jobangles


That's exactly the point I keep trying to make. Nobody will want to wait for a party to form when they can get the same exp soloing. If you're one of the types that enjoys grouping, that makes it nearly impossible to get anyone to join you. The fun of cooperative play gets thrown out the window in favor of convenience. It's impossible to have a true balance of solo and group content unless the two playstyles are striving for different goals, where you need a mix of both to achieve everything.
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