90% is soloing BECASUE THEY CAN. Every class in WoW is solo able and that is exactly what I’m saying and asking for is that every class should be viable for solo, not just DD's exclusively.
I wasn't talking about which classes can and can't solo in the quote you used. Your response doesn't match up to what I said. I was talking about why people solo, period, their motivations; whether all classes are equal or not is irrelevant.
You're talking about something completely unrelated to what I just said.
You don’t build a car or an airplane without doing a simulation first, which is pretty standard nowadays for everything you build/make. With the simulation you can easily read the outcome.
A simulation is something that has actually been tested in some capacity and has data to back it up; what you said was not a simulation, you presented no evidence that you've run any tests to this effect. It was closer to a guess, and guess or a fantasy that is thought up and used solely to support an argument is called a straw man, in that you've created it simply as something to attack and use as an example.
Haha, right, a sane DD that doesn’t take the unnecessary risk of getting with a bad healer that will only slow him down, a sane DD that sees no real benefit in having a healer tagging along getting half if his xp, or being rude to him or that you need to share your loot with.
A sane melee DPS knows that a healer will greatly reduce his/her downtime and enable him/her to take on larger enemies for greater XP and loot. There's a good chance an average melee DPS player in something approximating at least a decent mood will seriously consider the risk of getting a bad or rude healer against these sizable benefits especially when, as I said, the healer is nearby and partying is quick and takes little effort. That is all if
you are playing a game where support classes cannot effectively solo which is not what I'm advocating
There are a million reasons why you DONT party when you have solo option and you simply don’t get it and refuse to believe it.
For one, I have partied in environments where soloing was an option. If you make partying quick and painless, people will still party even if they can solo.
For another, your repeated aggression (even in the face of reasonable statements), insults, and cherry-picking is practically getting to be trolling at this point. You should probably just cool down for a bit.
Again you are defending the right for DD's so be completely solo viable and I will again and again defend the rights of support class being able to solo as well. What if I’m a support class and feel one day that I want to solo a bit?
I'm playing devil's advocate, for one. If there was a system (and there could be, certainly) where all classes could solo equally without being homogenized, that would be my first choice.
But you have in the past attacked soloing on the principle that a "party-only" system is preferable to a system wherein not all classes can solo equally, and I disagree.
All classes can solo equally without being homogenized.
is better than All classes can solo, but some are better at it than others because of class differences.
which is then better than
No one can solo.
But I'll play devil's advocate again, for the heck of it: If the best non-homogenized system we can come up with means that it's harder for support classes to solo than damage dealing classes (but not impossible! Just harder!) than that's still a reasonable answer and preferable over no soloing at all. Sub-par support class soloing is better than no soloing. Period.
This is only true in case of there is no solo availability as in FFXI. If solo exists then there is no meaning to invite support classes, people tend to solo instead.
I'm not talking about going out of your way to group up with support classes. I'm saying that if grouping is incredibly convenient because that class is already on screen and LFG
then that class will get invites without having to wait long at all, even in a solo-filled environment.
There are obvious benefits to having a support character around for melee DPS classes that people will consider grouping with one person if it is completely painless and easy to do.
Again, I'll make this an open question to everyone: If you're playing a melee DPS class, heading into a dungeon to solo, and saw a support class sitting by the dungeon mouth with a LFG flag up, would you seriously consider asking them if they'd like to come along?
You only need a few people to answer this question with a "Yes!" to prove that, indeed, people will take low-hanging fruit in terms of party risks and benefits even if they could otherwise solo.
So why not solve the problem by giving them solo viability as well? That would solve the problem. Again you are for discrimination here.
Thank you for putting words in my mouth. I am "for discrimination", as I've said, when it is the only
option other than 1) no soloing and 2) homogenized equal soloing.
I am simply trying to make the point, classical Devil's Advocate style, that having unequal soloing capabilities isn't that terrible if the gaps aren't that huge, and that most players will not have an issue with this.
I know people who regularly play healers who are simply at peace with the fact that their role can be a harder one to solo, and who would prefer it that way over having capable DPS spells and muddling their "support" flavor or not being able to solo at all. Even support class-players take up their jobs knowing they won't be as good at some things as others; which is, still, in the sub-ideal situation that we cannot manage non-homogenized, equal solo capabilities.
I'm still not getting an clear answer from you why you are against all classes having a fair chance to solo level up if they want to ? You have eluded that question in all your posts and only want the DD's to be able to solo, and in all my posts I have defended the rights of support classes and others that don’t have a proper way to DPS be able to solo.
For the third or fourth time, I've never said that I "only want the DD's to be able to solo
". I dare you, I absolutely dare to find where I said that I only want damage dealers to have soloing capabilities. You're putting words in my mouth here.
I also never said that I was "against all classes having a fair chance to solo level up
". You'll have to find that for me. I have said that I am against homogenizing classes
. But there are ways for multiple classes to solo relatively well without making them all the same. I have
said that I think that unequal soloing capability is better than no soloing.
My statement on the issue is that "In the absence of the option to have non-homogenized classes all solo at equal capacity, a system where it is harder (but not impossible!
) for some classes to solo is preferable to a system where no classes can solo at all, and, in my eyes, preferable to a system where classes lose identity via homogenization."
As I've said, I believe a system wherein some classes solo less capably than others is preferable to a system with no soloing because:
1) The idea of some classes soloing better than others (but where everyone can still solo in some decent capacity) is logical: it makes sense that a warrior can take on monsters alone better than a healer. It is also an ideology already widely accepted by players: many MMO players accept the fact that there are differences between classes.
2) Being able to solo at a mediocre rate, in the case of a healer, is highly preferable to not having the option to solo whatsoever. There are support character players who will agree with this statement and are glad for the option. There are also many support players that will attest that they'd rather not be given magician/blaster style spells and dilute their class identity just so they can level as well as a mage.
I already said these things earlier in the forms of this statement:
As far as I've ever known, it's an acceptable and logical system. And just because, say, healers aren't as good at solo leveling as warriors doesn't mean they can't get by.
I don't like systems where classes are homogenized either. Being a terrible soloing class with the option to solo at a mediocre pace is better than not having it at all.
So, your attempt at what seems to be turning the tables on me and calling me out is incorrect: I have already stated why I'm saying the things that I am, and have not been dodging the statements you've been making.
I would also like to add that even though you've said this: "I have defended the rights of support classes and others that don’t have a proper way to DPS be able to solo.
" You are still trying to attack soloing as a whole and insisting that no one be able to solo
. Edited, Jun 19th 2009 5:39am by PrinnyFlute