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No exp? Progress through play!Follow

#1 Jun 14 2009 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I just had a crazy idea, kinda debated if i should accually post it cause it sounds kinda far fetched but hey what-ev.

I was thinking SE said no EXP or level for your character. THey said Weapons would be your growth. But thats just taking the EXP grind from job levels to weapon levels, so saying no EXP is just a facade.

What if weapons determined what job we played as, or you pick a job and they have strengths in diff weapons and those weapons enhanced that job.

But to accaully progress (gain abilities and skills) we accaully had to quest for them?
This would work for solo and grp play. some tasks to gain an ability would be easy for a solo player, but maybe for some others you needed a grp. Solo quests could lead to new gear, to grow your character or materials to craft a rare item. But the Captain of the Dark Knight brigade is being held prisoner and you need to break him out of high security lockdown. Gonna have to get a group for that. The captain is very thankful for your courage and would like to reward you by bestowing a new weaponskill to you.

No exp or levels required just skilled players with certin traits & abilities built up already to help you out.

I dunno a little far fetched but maybe there is some merit to it. THe growth system has to be simple or it will detract from the more "casual" player, but in depth enough for the long term players. It'll be very interesting to see what SE will come up with since there won't be any "EXP".
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#2 Jun 14 2009 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I see where you are coming from but it makes me wonder. When getting ready for endgame what is your search criteria? LFM WHM with CureV unlocked? Since no levels will be there for you to know whether or not the WHM has proper spells for the group. Again all this forum is now is speculation as now real details have been given at this time. I am however excited to see if SE can truly change the face of the MMO, making both solo and group viable options. Only time will tell.
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#3 Jun 14 2009 at 5:26 AM Rating: Default
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aremethius wrote:
I see where you are coming from but it makes me wonder. When getting ready for endgame what is your search criteria? LFM WHM with CureV unlocked? Since no levels will be there for you to know whether or not the WHM has proper spells for the group. Again all this forum is now is speculation as now real details have been given at this time. I am however excited to see if SE can truly change the face of the MMO, making both solo and group viable options. Only time will tell.


Sure they can make solo viable, to question is to what extent;D
#4 Jun 14 2009 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
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There won't be any experience, they'll just call it something else.
#5 Jun 14 2009 at 5:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I think if your character becomes stronger as you progress in the story and do quest it would be cool, instead of getting XXX exp per mob, you get x Hp, x Mp, x str, and for skills you do exclusive missions for your skill :/ but not like the missions we do for skillchains, those are painful lol.
#6 Jun 14 2009 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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aremethius wrote:
I see where you are coming from but it makes me wonder. When getting ready for endgame what is your search criteria? LFM WHM with CureV unlocked? Since no levels will be there for you to know whether or not the WHM has proper spells for the group.

I see no reason why not.

World of Warcraft does a similar thing. "LFM lv80 Holy Priest in Blues or better" or "LFM Holy Priest in T7 or better" or "LFM Holy Priest in T8 or better" and soon people will be saying "LFM Holy Priest in T9"

While the current level cap is 80, the difference between those three, is roughly the difference between a level 80, a level 83, a level 83, and a level 89 character (respectively).

It would be a good thing, if the "LFM" qualifier, was achievement based, as opposed to simply being a level.
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#7 Jun 14 2009 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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aremethius wrote:
I see where you are coming from but it makes me wonder. When getting ready for endgame what is your search criteria? LFM WHM with CureV unlocked? Since no levels will be there for you to know whether or not the WHM has proper spells for the group. Again all this forum is now is speculation as now real details have been given at this time. I am however excited to see if SE can truly change the face of the MMO, making both solo and group viable options. Only time will tell.


Yep, just all speculation at this point, just trying to think of ways poeple can play together, make progress w/o relying on a ranking system to show your progress.

In my head i'm thinking everyone is made equal. of course taking into account for race and job choice. so a Taru War will have less stats in HP, STR and VIT than say an Elvaan War. Armor and Weapons give you the stats for growth.


So a Taru War starts with 800 hp and 50 Str and 40 Vit. naked. the Taru has armor that adds +800 Hp and +60 vit.

an Elvaan starts with 1200 HP and 80Str and 75 Vit. naked. The Elvaan has armour that adds +500 Hp and +75 Vit.

Elvaan might make a better all aroudn warrior but a taru has a chance to make up for thier short comings through equipment choice. This way you won't have to worry about finding people of your same rank or level to progress through the game. You just /tell someone hey we're goign on a quest we need xxx job. wanna come?

But that would lead to vet. players taking newbs on gear runs, unless of course you had to complete chain quests to have access to the gear.

So community will have to play a big role in a system liek this. You would have to trust your commrads, and they should be upfront about their shortcomings. If they aren't propperly equiped to go on the hunt then they should pass. And if they don't then you know to beware of that person the next time around.

Like i said it was a far fetched idea to begin with. I'm just very excited for FFXIV. As we all are ^^
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#8 Jun 14 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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Personally I'm expecting a system more similar to Oblivion, or Morrowind before it, than anything else. Could also be like EVE Online, too. EVE's system, in a way, is rather ingenious; the problem with it is that it doesn't bring skill into the equation at all. At least with Morrowind you had to swing the sword and fight in combat to level it.

The main curiosity I have, though, is that if "weapons" tie into the leveling process, how on earth will mages work? I intensely dislike FFXI's tendency to try and make everything melee-capable; there's very few "pure" mage jobs out there that will never swing a weapon. It'd be a shame if they were done away with entirely in FFXIV.

It'll be intriguing to see how it plays out, that's for sure. Definitely something to consider when pre-ordering, though. A brand-new MMO game mechanic is typically something that would cause me to wait a few months and see how the longer-term pans out, just in case it's not working well.
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#9 Jun 14 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Squallido wrote:
I think if your character becomes stronger as you progress in the story and do quest it would be cool, instead of getting XXX exp per mob, you get x Hp, x Mp, x str, and for skills you do exclusive missions for your skill :/ but not like the missions we do for skillchains, those are painful lol.


This reminds me of the Last Remnant system. I think it would be great. Each job has all the normal stats, but a warrior might have 'Bravery' whereas a blackmage might have 'Wisdom' These job specific stats would boost that specific jobs abilities. 1 Bravery might equal +3 Str, +3 Vit, +5 Attackpower, and +200hp. As bravery got higher the warrior would learn new moves. Job specific stats would be incredibly rare, or have very small values compared to other stats on armor.
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#10 Jun 14 2009 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I am still kind of surprised about this.

People seem to be saying that FFXIV will be a skill based mmo rather than a level based mmo? Open world where you get better at what you like to do most simply for playing the game?

o.O

If you guys want a point of reference for this style of play take a look at Ultima Online. Don't let the graphics on the game fool you its actually a pretty amazing concept. You can spend an entire weekend baking cakes while still participating in the games main form of progression.

Its just a really tight experience..

I am sorry but I have to ask this. Can anyone point me to a link where the claim that FFXIV will not have XP and levels?

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 3:25pm by thorazinekizzez
#11 Jun 14 2009 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I am sorry but I have to ask this. Can anyone point me to a link where the claim that FFXIV will not have XP and levels?


" How does the leveling system work?
Square Enix is cagey about how characters advance, but it has confirmed with IGN that growth is not based on experience and that it will work on a different system entirely. "
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/991/991483p1.html


In my oppinion.. as long this is not a grid system like ffx or ffxii, i'll be happy D:

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 3:30pm by banzaii
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#12 Jun 14 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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banzaii wrote:
as long this is not a grid system like ffx or ffxii D:


The grid system o.O
*scratches head*

See this is just boggling the mind..

#13 Jun 14 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Default
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thorazinekizzez wrote:
banzaii wrote:
as long this is not a grid system like ffx or ffxii D:


The grid system o.O
*scratches head*

See this is just boggling the mind..



I think he means licenceboard (ff12)/sphere grid(ff10)
#14 Jun 14 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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yeah, where you gets some item to unlock a further spot on the grid, which you chose if you want STR or Health or an ability.. i really hate that system and this is a possibility after all since its not "really" experience point you get in a system like this.
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FFXI
Server: Ragnarok
Character: Klife
Jobs: PLD75 RDM75 BLM75 BRD75 DRG75
WOW
Server: Aegwynn
Character Bamboo
Class: Rogue80
#15 Jun 14 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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banzaii wrote:
yeah, where you gets some item to unlock a further spot on the grid, which you chose if you want STR or Health or an ability.. i really hate that system and this is a possibility after all since its not "really" experience point you get in a system like this.


Yeah I remember the sphere grid system.. It would be a really cool idea at first but a lot of potential pitfalls.

edit: I guess that is true for any core progression model you apply to an mmo. The main complaint with Ultima Online was that I had no idea what to do, the game didn't tell me to do simple stuff I actually had to THINK about things lol..

Edited, Jun 14th 2009 3:38pm by thorazinekizzez
#16 Jun 14 2009 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I would like a "sphere grid" system. That way instead of being a specific class you had fully custom abilities up to and including weapon and armor classes equippable by your grid. An ability to erase your grid for an added fee would be nice so people werent stuck as one thing. Then it becomes much to alike with WoW's talent system but that system works nicely.
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#17 Jun 14 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I would like a "sphere grid" system. That way instead of being a specific class you had fully custom abilities up to and including weapon and armor classes equippable by your grid. An ability to erase your grid for an added fee would be nice so people werent stuck as one thing. Then it becomes much to alike with WoW's talent system but that system works nicely.


Oh, wonderful idea! Now we'll have 5,000 of the same damage dealer, healer and support classes on the same server! Great, if I choose to be a DD, every single other DD on the server will be identical. Same goes for healer and support. Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.
#18 Jun 14 2009 at 7:39 PM Rating: Decent
Just a thought, although already sort of expressed in other threads:

Gain skills through weapon equiped (yea, like ffix). With the extremely limited information give to us at this time, this seems like a perfectly viable (again, based on the little info) means of strengthing character through weapon usage. Kill monsters, gain ap, ap needed to learn skill on weapon = x, kill enough monsters to gain needed ap = availability of skill. That being said, Each skill could have a set of attributes to enhance your character. In conjunction with this, the character has X amount of skill set points. We saw a system similar to this in the Blue Mage in FFXI. The amount of skill set points could possibly be acheived by difficult quests that must be achieved solo (possibly instanced). This would give each character a unique set up depending on what role they wish to play (also the addition of certain attribute points on the equipment worn). To be smart, any equipment other than the base equipment would have to have a BOP system and to help ensure no one is just getting powerful equipment for newbies.

Of course I realize that there are many flaws with this though (although there are many flaws, i think, with each statment given lol no offense, we are just shooting for the stars atm).

Just my two cents.

p.s. sorry for the block of text


#19 Jun 14 2009 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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VhailorEmp wrote:
Personally I'm expecting a system more similar to Oblivion


I wouldn't mind a system like Oblivion - it definitely rewarded you with skill increases to those you used most. But, if I remember correctly, it also had an EXP system that allowed you to level-up and adjust another set of skills that were level-based.

Not sure how this type of system would work in FFXIV, considering that they have explicitly said "no levels" as well no EXP (at least in the sense we are familiar with).

ed: added op name

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 1:26am by Kotisu
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