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#1 Jun 14 2009 at 2:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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With little to no concrete information about FF14 I'm curious about what may happen with tradeskills. Also I'm interested in finding out what others think about tradeskills in FF14. Also I've seen some people making comments about changes they wanted in other threads and wanted a place for their ideas to be better recognized at.

Fishing was always my favorite of the tradeskills in FF11, even if others found it to be boring. I found it to be even more enjoyable after they made the change over to the pull against the fish system. That being said, most of my ideas involve fishing.

FFXI already had a large array of fish species, but this always left me wanting more. With the new game I hope to see a lot of new fish. One idea I had while playing FF11 years ago was how neat it would be to have a personal boat that one could take out onto a body of water to fish with. With FF14 announced I've expanded on the idea. Imagine a sizable lake, maybe after reaching a certain fishing skill, completing a quest, renting it, or crafting a boat you could row out to deeper water to catch other fish not available in the shallows. Maybe row out to the deepest part and you may fish up something legendary.

It was said that FF14 was going to have more technology to the game environment. I think it would be cool if say a large city, equivalent to Jeuno, had an aquarium. At the start of the game this aquarium could have "just opened" and be looking for species of fish to be donated for rewards equal to the fishes rarity. A possible idea would to have plaques near tanks of rarer and legendary species stating who donated the largest of the species. Another quest I could see being added would be that if you donate 1 of all the non-legendary species you could be rewarded with a fishing pole similar in regards of the Lu Shang quest.

If mog houses make a return it would be nice if all legendary fish could be mounted with each having a unique model for that species.

In regards to other tradeskill an idea I had if they aren't going to have crystals be apart of item synthesis, you could play a small minigame to craft items. I haven't thought how this would work for all tradeskills but an example could be say woodworking. Have a small minigame where the objective is to cut a log into lumber. Say a single log could yeild 8 peices of lumber. If you took your time and did very well in the minigame you would create 7-8 peices of lumber and also be more likely to skill up or produce high quality results. Do decent and get a return of say 3-6 with an average chance to skill up. Do horrible and get less than 3 peices of lumber and less of a chance to skill up. Something I imagine with this type of system would be that not everyone would have the time or desire to play the minigame every time they wanted to craft so you could have a option to skip it. The way I'd see skipping a minigame working would be that more often than not you would end up with average results, but you could also still get below average and above average results from it as well.

So like I said, I'm interested in hearing your ideas and speculations in regards to tradeskills. Also I'd like to hear what you think of my ideas.
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#2 Jun 14 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Decent
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You'd need to skill up a heck of a lot faster than you do in FFXI for that to be viable. It would get boring fast. It also puts skill into crafting which isn't neccessarily fair. I'm not sure I like the minigame idea. I liked FFXI's system it just took too long.

But whatever you do, don't make it as easy and pointless as crafting is in WoW! I mean, it's so bad people will often switch professions and powerlevel new ones just because each gives a slight bonus and they want to min/max this slight bonus. The crafts themselves are next to useless.
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#3 Jun 14 2009 at 7:16 AM Rating: Default
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I hope all of the original crafts make a return to FFXIV. Depending on the level progression, I hope that SE would include "Magic Tome Scribe" (or something along those lines) which would allow players to infuse magical abilities and skills onto paper.
I'll most definitely start off as a fisher this time around, as I will surely cook food and prepare drinks. I just pray that SE makes drinks stackable this time around. I mean, surely, they've heard of a six/twelve/twenty-four pack of brew.
For much of the 3.5 years I played, I devoted it to crafting. For the most part, crafting in FFXI was rewarding, so long as you were willing to put the time and effort in. However, towards the end, I observed a declining return in my crafting profits. Some might fault the rapid demise of many gilsellers/buyers to this recession, but I won't bother speculating. All I know is, I used to make a million+ gil a day, then my profits fell to a mere 200-300,000 gil a day. That's still a decent profit margin, but a major fall nonetheless.
I like your idea about the aquarium. I'd only like to add that I'd like to name my donation after myself, much like how you add your signature to an item. The boat idea would pwn, too.
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#4 Jun 14 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Didn't EVERYTHING go down in price with the demise of the gilsellers? Meaning gil lost it's value ad that 300k was about the same value as the 1 million had been (for the most part, mileage will vary depending on the impact on each item).
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#5 Jun 14 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I would like to see a crafting system similiar to Star Ocean 2! For those of you who never played that great game, they had a crafting system in the game where you would level up certain "talents" which would effect how successful you could craft certain types of items. The method of crafting was like this. I had to purchase RAW material and tell my character to "Craft" I would craft up a random item based on my skill lvl's vs. personal level. I might craft up 10 crap swords and then 1 really cool magical sword! Also by crafting your skills would increase. The idea wasn't that I needed to track down 100 different items and combine them to possibly make 1, but I'd just use 1 raw material to craft any number of possible items based on skill.

Now What I would LIKE to see in FFXIV is something along those lines. I still prefer crafting systems that make you have to go get raw materials and combine in a combination, but I want it where I have chances based on skill level where I could craft something completely different than the combination has to offer. Also have an ingame crafting list for your character to see. Meaning If I have crafted this 1 item or have skill to craft these items, I can pull up a menu telling me what I need to have to craft it again. Instead of me needing to write all of them down on a piece of paper or hop on allakhazam!

#6 Jun 14 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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In general the crafting system on ffxi is meh at best. Some crafts are better then others. I took fishing up to 45 and enjoyed it.. but it soon became boring. So i took up cooking... thats 93+1 atm. The only thing i really hated was on some of the synths i choose to skill up on the mats werent stackable.... I wish SE would leave same concept as it is today but allow all mats to be stackable... especially cuz im sure were not gonna have all the storage we have now to start. One is gonna have to choose which one that want to use to make money b4 they can do others when they increase the size of thier mog house (or w/e it is), or what they can carry.
As far as using a crystal... thats not to bad.... **** take any low lv char and go out and kill for them... its a great drop rate..... but then again that takes away inv space for other mats.
With WoW's crafting thats so easy it isnt funny. You dont have to worry about breaks but on downside u cant make a +1 of the same item when doing it.
Make things more stackable and I will be happy with the new system... thats im gonna start from day 1... instead of waiting till much later
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#7 Jun 14 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think it goes without saying that I would love if they had Gardening in XIV as well, except with a lot more possible results. I've always found it extremely disappointing that you couldn't grow every single produce item in the game with some experimental work. It would be nice if there was an actual skill to it as well.
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#8 Jun 14 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I leveled Leathercraft to 100 and had a lot of fun doing so. It was great to be able to scan the AH while waiting for Limbus or something to start and to make 50 or 100k. I liked that it was a long enough road that even though it was difficult, if you put in the effort, it was worth your while.

I would like to see a similar system in FFXIV but also, maybe a system that allows veteran crafters to craft more advanced items than somebody that just hit 100. For example, youve crafted 25 pairs of Dusk Gloves? Unlocks "X" new recipe, I think it could help people to specialize a bit more and find their own niche.
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#9 Jun 14 2009 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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The crafting in ff11 was ok but I didn't like how you could lose materials and also how long it took to level any craft up but I like that you could have all crafts. I liked the crafting in wow it was simple but hated the fact you could only have one or two if you choose no gathering. Hopefully they combine the two and make it so you can have all crafts but it doesn't take forever to level up and you don't lose materials.
I kind of liked the crafting system of kingdom hearts, maybe they should do something along those lines but in the end it doesn't make a difference what I think because I'm not working for them, only if I could get my ideas heard.
#10 Jun 14 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty open to whatever method SE might implement for the crafting system, but the material loss on failure bit has got to go unless players are given direct control over whether or not they will fail or succeed based on their skill level. My last real session in FFXI ended when my 100 alchemy character failed the combine on a Hakutaku Eye Cluster for some poor BST who had spent many, many hours farming the components himself. Based on the common knowledge at the time, I attempted the combine on the right day during a neutral moon phase while facing the proper direction and the RNG combined with the automatic critical on fail for that combine negated all of the time that BST had put in farming the eyes, and to me that was just absolute **********
#11 Jun 14 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
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AureliusSir wrote:
I'm pretty open to whatever method SE might implement for the crafting system, but the material loss on failure bit has got to go unless players are given direct control over whether or not they will fail or succeed based on their skill level. My last real session in FFXI ended when my 100 alchemy character failed the combine on a Hakutaku Eye Cluster for some poor BST who had spent many, many hours farming the components himself. Based on the common knowledge at the time, I attempted the combine on the right day during a neutral moon phase while facing the proper direction and the RNG combined with the automatic critical on fail for that combine negated all of the time that BST had put in farming the eyes, and to me that was just absolute horsesh*t.


Haha I have to agree here with AureliusSir, loosing materials is really annoying, especially if the components required into making the item are extremely expensive or hard to get. Then again you can proc and get a +1, maybe SE meant this as a balancing issue?
#12 Jun 14 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Maldavian wrote:

Haha I have to agree here with AureliusSir, loosing materials is really annoying, especially if the components required into making the item are extremely expensive or hard to get. Then again you can proc and get a +1, maybe SE meant this as a balancing issue?


Ideally if it were a balancing issue the potential for a critical fail would be restricted to those combines where an HQ result was also a possibility. That's what bothered me about the Hakutaku deal...it was either a successful combine or a critical fail with no in-between and no benefit for an HQ result. Breaks and critical fails on other things were frustrating at times, but I could live with it. If it was my own Hakutaku Eye Cluster synth that failed, I would have been very unhappy but I could have lived with it. Blowing up all the materials that someone else spent so much time accumulating was just...disgusting.
#13 Jun 14 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Fishing was always my favorite of the tradeskills in FF11, even if others found it to be boring. I found it to be even more enjoyable after they made the change over to the pull against the fish system. That being said, most of my ideas involve fishing.

FFXI already had a large array of fish species, but this always left me wanting more. With the new game I hope to see a lot of new fish. One idea I had while playing FF11 years ago was how neat it would be to have a personal boat that one could take out onto a body of water to fish with. With FF14 announced I've expanded on the idea. Imagine a sizable lake, maybe after reaching a certain fishing skill, completing a quest, renting it, or crafting a boat you could row out to deeper water to catch other fish not available in the shallows. Maybe row out to the deepest part and you may fish up something legendary.

It was said that FF14 was going to have more technology to the game environment. I think it would be cool if say a large city, equivalent to Jeuno, had an aquarium. At the start of the game this aquarium could have "just opened" and be looking for species of fish to be donated for rewards equal to the fishes rarity. A possible idea would to have plaques near tanks of rarer and legendary species stating who donated the largest of the species. Another quest I could see being added would be that if you donate 1 of all the non-legendary species you could be rewarded with a fishing pole similar in regards of the Lu Shang quest.

If mog houses make a return it would be nice if all legendary fish could be mounted with each having a unique model for that species.



I would love to see all that added to the fishing profession.
It was always my favorite for some reason as well, not sure if it was the outfit, atmosphere, or just relaxing and chatting with people.
#14 Jun 15 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I was the first NA level 100 +3 blacksmithing and first to make a cursed hauberk -1.

The day I wanted to quit.... I had 16 barone corraza. 9 of which failed. ... Over 60 million with gone that day.
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#15 Jun 15 2009 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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I'd also like some kind of book that holds your reciepes for each tradeskill so you don't have to look them up every time.

It would also be great if there were more useful items to make in the early stages to prevent people from flooding the market with hundreds of subligars for example.
And don't reduce tradeskills to simple moneymakers but give the crafters a bonus if they use their own stuff or rare/ex items they can only use themself.

How about improvements for weapons?
Most of the weapons you could craft didn't stand a chance against dropped weapons but what if you could improve them by adding effects to them (like the effects on katanas or daggers but with a real proc rate) or upgrade their damage or accuracy.

Also they could leave out all that "face this direction on that day and moonphase and sacrifice a Tarutaru Whm to get an HQ".
I'd like crafting to be something clearly defined. For each point you are over the cap of an item your HQ rate should increase by 1 point also with a base chance of maybe 10%.

Same goes for gardening. It would be nice to have some info about it before thousands of players discover things through months of trial and error.
And maybe another Moogle comment that tells you "Now is the perfect time to harvest this plant!".

Failing a synth could be changed too. You should only lose materials on critical fails or if you synth something above your current skill.
If you fail a synth that is below your skill instead of losing materials you could also get that item you were making but with reduced stats or negative stats.

When breaking items to get materials you shouldn't get only one type but all types of materials that were used to make it.
Why would anyone throw away a silver belt buckle just because it broke into 2 pieces?

I also agree on the part that potions and drinks should be stackable.

And ammunition for guns, bows and crossbows shouldn't take up any inventory space.
Instead there should be special pouches, boxes and quivers as they already exist in FFXI but as equipment with certain stats like "Holds 50 stacks of arrows, Haste +1%" with a seperate inventory box for the ammo.

More materials should be available at the guild shops and the quality should increase the higher your skill gets (for example copper->bronze->iron->silver->gold) while the price gets lower.
If possible the prices should also adapt to the current AH prices.
For example: 1 Elm Wood on AH goes for 2k while it's 2,5k at the guild shop for the non crafter 2,1k for a crafter who is in skillup range and 1,9k for a crafter with that profession and higher skill.
And keep the items limited to a certain ammount per player and not per day.

I'd also like being able to sell my items in a town while I'm in some random dungeon. Why not make a moogle market stall you can rent and place at a special market place in the bigger towns?

Oh and the auction houses should all be linked together.

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 6:31pm by RidingBean
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#16 Jun 15 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am probably in the minority here but I kind of like WoW's take on crafting as opposed to FFXI's. WoW crafts may be useless as moneymakers, but the thing about it is that there are so many other ways to earn money you don't need to be a crafter. Then, it just becomes a personal choice to level a craft because either A. there is something useful you can make for your class that you can only use if you have that craft, or B. It's just something that you enjoy playing around with. It's not about "Ok I will level blacksmithing because then I might be able to HQ an armor and sell it for 60mil over the regular synth price". I like the "How can I enjoy and use this to improve my character" take on things rather than the "How can I make money on the backs of other people" take on it.

I'll agree the skill progression is a little too easy in WoW, but FFXI's is too hard and that's how crafters justify their sometimes outrageous prices on things. Somewhere in the middle would be perfect, and I would like XIV to not be so wholly dependent on crafters for everything in the game like XI is. Crafting in XI is a little skewed and there is a lot of necessary stuff that is completely controlled by crafters and their whims. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the AH to get something for a quest or get a certain kind of food and found nothing there because no one felt like making it for whatever reason. So then I have to wait around and camp the AH until someone decides to make it. That kind of market control has to go.
#17 Jun 15 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Default
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Craftables are practically useless in WoW. They're used for their bonuses now and that's about it. They're too easy to level, it's boring. I much prefer FFXI's system.
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#18 Jun 15 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Craftables are practically useless in WoW. They're used for their bonuses now and that's about it. They're too easy to level, it's boring. I much prefer FFXI's system.


I hope you don't mean the small stat bonuses associated with leveling a particular skill... because what about elixers / food buffs for raiding? Potions? Enchants and armor patches? Granted, the majority of crafted wearable items are pretty bad, but they're decent if you level the profession alongside your character. I'd be a fan of something in the middle.
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#19 Jun 15 2009 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok, there are a couple good ones and others that aren't. The wearables aren't all that good even leveling up because you level faster than your skill does and quests give you all the equips you need. And lots of people actually do mix/max those profession bonuses at the end, dropping and retraining something because it's better than another. Another testament to how crafting is too simple in WoW.
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#20 Jun 15 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
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I loved FFXI's crafting system, and I wouldn't mind if they incorporated it entirely into FFXIV. Having said that, I know they won't, so I would also love to see certain changes:

Continue to include HQ crystals, but make them available earlier ( I mean in the timeline of the game - from the first day - HQ crystals didn't come out for nearly two years after NA release of the game)

Add a quest component to levelling a craft. Specifically, this addresses the crafting mule idea. Now I crafted on a mule, I had 4 crafts @ 90+ when I finally threw away my gear and bought a 60 million gil fire crystal in windy. But I want the rank up tests to include not just an item, but a quest component, like taling to someone in another city, or fighting a small NM.

I like WoW's soul-bind concept, and would love to see sellable gear of certain types to be un-sellable after use. For instance, items like SH, Sha'ir manteel, etc (maybe any item involving a HNM drop synth). This way, items dissapear when they are sold, they don't get re-cycled...hopefully this helps to preserve the longevity of crafting.

High level crafting recipe drops. I love the concept of having to kill Vrtra not just for the item to make a sha'ir manteel, but also for the recipe. Make it rare/ex, so if I wanna learn to craft that item, I have to learn the recipe like a magic scroll.

I love the possibility of augments. I don't like how FFXI introduced them as a random element, but imagine being able to combine your leather boots with two green dots and synth a leather boot with +1 evasion? (for instance) This highly customizable aspect of armor again would create demand for armor and play styles. Any augmented item might be bound to the user and be un-sellable as well.

Anything that preserves the longevity of crafting would be a great addition in my opinion. I loved crafting and am already looking forward to it in FFXIV.

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#21 Jun 15 2009 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'd also like some kind of book that holds your reciepes for each tradeskill so you don't have to look them up every time.


Yes, please.

Quote:
And ammunition for guns, bows and crossbows shouldn't take up any inventory space.
Instead there should be special pouches, boxes and quivers as they already exist in FFXI but as equipment with certain stats like "Holds 50 stacks of arrows, Haste +1%" with a seperate inventory box for the ammo.


Yes, please.

Quote:
More materials should be available at the guild shops and the quality should increase the higher your skill gets (for example copper->bronze->iron->silver->gold) while the price gets lower.


Yes, please.

Quote:
Oh and the auction houses should all be linked together.


Yes, please....great post. Ideas I once had, but forgot since I retired.

HQ Crystals should also be available on day of release.

I'd also like to be able to cap all crafts at 100 on one character; no need for crafting mules. Or, at least make muling more time efficient. Logging in and out, in and out gets a little old.

More inventory. I want to be able to carry 250-500 items on day one of release. (I know that won't happen but I can pray.)

Like Pikko said, I'd like Gardening to be an actual skill, too.




Edited, Jun 15th 2009 8:11pm by TheJollyjokers
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#22 Jun 15 2009 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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I'm betting engineering being available this time.

SWG style crafting pls! Let the player adjust the difficulty high reward/high failure rate. Add more variance in crafted items than "HQ" and "NQ". AH should allow for longer auctions and more items up at once. Personal shops was also a nice feature.

also Copypasta:
shinta wrote:
Make Crafting meaningful: HQ ingredients should have a greater chance of HQ results. There should be more than one way to HQ. How skilled the crafter is *at that synth* should have a much greater impact on the result. While, you're at it, going through 20 different items to make ingredients for 1 synth is puts ridiculous strain on inventory/item management, and having to select each ingredient separately is a pain in the ***, especially with nonsensical sorting.


WoW- I personally found WoW's craft system boring and for the most part useless. I did like the number of "bind on equip" items and special +stats you got as you leveled certain crafts.

Finally, let people learn as many crafts up to w/e skill they want. From a "realism" standpoint it seems dumb that I can't be proficient in 3-4+ skills at a time, especially when I need to know several to make certain items.
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#23 Jun 17 2009 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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If a person has to pay a tax on placing an item on the AH, then there should be no limit to how much you can attempt to sell.

AH should be linked to save on muling and/or asking LSmates for prices in various cities.

Logging/Mining/Gardening/Harvesting/Chocobo digging should be visible skills.

Crafting +1 and above items should give an automatic skillup.

No more useless crafting recipes. Noone ever wears a Raptor's Mantle, for example, or ate Grilled corn (that's fish bait).

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 8:37pm by TheJollyjokers

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 8:38pm by TheJollyjokers
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#24 Jun 17 2009 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Noone ever wears a Raptor's Mantle

Nobody wears a lot of things. I hope they add a wider range of gear so there are more choices when leveling so you're not all wearing the same thing. And forget the gear with no stat increases at all. Nobody wears it.
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#25 Jun 17 2009 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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One thing I did like about the WoW system is that you had to be by a forge/anvil to do anything with metal (smelting, blacksmithing). The animations were "realistic" (you saw yourself hammering on an anvil). I hope that it looks and feels like your is actually doing whatever it is you're trying to do.
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