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FF14 - Slow and steady please!Follow

#1 Jun 15 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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One of my fondest memories of FFXI when it was released *Sparkly new* was that I never felt like I was in a race. I was never in a hurry to be the biggest, baddest, high-level out there. My first day of FFXI I went out to kill crawlers for a bit, came back in town and did auctions for a bit, sat and chatted with people outside the mog house till we had a big circle of random people (who eventually became friends). It was nice. I was never in a hurry to get *insert goal* before the next person did. For me, the path towards 75 (for the first time anyway) WAS the game. It was about the journey, not actually getting there. Being excited and a bit scared at every new turn, and not rushing past it resulted in more fond nostalgia, and built more memories for me than any game since has been able to. I was a tortoise who knew that the hare was just going to be smushed flat asking for a raise as I walked by on the way to the finish line.

I missed that greatly when WOW was released. Yes the game was fun in its own way, but nothing truly felt rewarding. No accomplishment felt like it was earned in the same way. Each zone felt like it was whisked away as fast as it approached, leveling went so fast. Combat dialog tended to fly by at such a rate that I was never even positive of the outcome unless I went back after each battle to read it again. Everything was just a rush to get to the end-game. Never once did I feel like my character was in any danger, or that any of the monsters were authentically scary. Death was just an annoyance, and if you were determined enough, you could just lunge at anything throwing caution to the wind. Rewards fell off of monsters like candy, and somewhere in the back of my mind I felt a bit of loathing to be wearing such powerful equipment without working hard to truly earn it.

This is my hope for FFXIV, that in a world where everyone is rushing to be bigger and better than everyone else, that FF14 won't have us flying past zones/areas without hardly experiencing them, that quests/missions will be memorable and monsters still scary. That combat and its log/text will still be at a pace that you can read and know whats going on. And yes, I actually hope that death has serious consequences. Cheating death, should always be part of the game. What's the point of risk-taking when there is little risk?
I hope FF14 can be "casual friendly" for people with limited time/attention span, but with a deeper rabbit hole for those of us wanting a more meaningful richer experience. Some things should take effort. Some things should take time. Rewards that are harder to obtain are far more shiny and bright.
#2 Jun 15 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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#3 Jun 15 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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loxenfox wrote:
One of my fondest memories of FFXI when it was released *Sparkly new* was that I never felt like I was in a race. I was never in a hurry to be the biggest, baddest, high-level out there. My first day of FFXI I went out to kill crawlers for a bit, came back in town and did auctions for a bit, sat and chatted with people outside the mog house till we had a big circle of random people (who eventually became friends). It was nice. I was never in a hurry to get *insert goal* before the next person did. For me, the path towards 75 (for the first time anyway) WAS the game. It was about the journey, not actually getting there. Being excited and a bit scared at every new turn, and not rushing past it resulted in more fond nostalgia, and built more memories for me than any game since has been able to. I was a tortoise who knew that the hare was just going to be smushed flat asking for a raise as I walked by on the way to the finish line.

I missed that greatly when WOW was released. Yes the game was fun in its own way, but nothing truly felt rewarding. No accomplishment felt like it was earned in the same way. Each zone felt like it was whisked away as fast as it approached, leveling went so fast. Combat dialog tended to fly by at such a rate that I was never even positive of the outcome unless I went back after each battle to read it again. Everything was just a rush to get to the end-game. Never once did I feel like my character was in any danger, or that any of the monsters were authentically scary. Death was just an annoyance, and if you were determined enough, you could just lunge at anything throwing caution to the wind. Rewards fell off of monsters like candy, and somewhere in the back of my mind I felt a bit of loathing to be wearing such powerful equipment without working hard to truly earn it.

This is my hope for FFXIV, that in a world where everyone is rushing to be bigger and better than everyone else, that FF14 won't have us flying past zones/areas without hardly experiencing them, that quests/missions will be memorable and monsters still scary. That combat and its log/text will still be at a pace that you can read and know whats going on. And yes, I actually hope that death has serious consequences. Cheating death, should always be part of the game. What's the point of risk-taking when there is little risk?
I hope FF14 can be "casual friendly" for people with limited time/attention span, but with a deeper rabbit hole for those of us wanting a more meaningful richer experience. Some things should take effort. Some things should take time. Rewards that are harder to obtain are far more shiny and bright.


10/10
#4 Jun 15 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
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I really do agree with what you're saying. I hate how small each area is in WoW, and how easy it is to level.

You have reached North Goldshire. You recieve 50xp

Also, leveling is too easy. I mean, 1 day you're like level 1 and saying "Look at that level 30's armor!", the next day you're calling that same guy a noob.
I got from level 1 to 8 with NO EFFORT at all in like 2 days.
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#5 Jun 15 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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loxenfox wrote:
This is my hope for FFXIV, that in a world where everyone is rushing to be bigger and better than everyone else, that FF14 won't have us flying past zones/areas without hardly experiencing them, that quests/missions will be memorable and monsters still scary. That combat and its log/text will still be at a pace that you can read and know whats going on. And yes, I actually hope that death has serious consequences. Cheating death, should always be part of the game. What's the point of risk-taking when there is little risk?


I totally heard this in booming movie trailer voice! Smiley: laugh

Great post though and I do agree, the bum rush race to be the best has never been an attractive feature for me. I'm for some kind of penalty when you die as well. Simply not caring just changes the way you look at the game for some reason.
#6 Jun 15 2009 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have to say that your post was great.
I felt the same way when I used to play FFXI.

I really enjoyed the leveling speed and never thought that it was too fast or too slow.
The only part that actually bothered me eventually was the massive exp loss that would constantly occur trying to fight difficult bosses.

But overall, the leveling speed was good.

I've never played WoW, but I have a friend who does, and she always tells me how extremely easy it is to level up...and reach the max level very quickly. That seems kind of boring to me.

And Perfect World's leveling system is just ridiculous. My friend and I, leveling together, reached level 30 in about 36 hours. And then it gets weird, because level 30-40 might take an entire week, and 40-50 might take two weeks. 50-60 takes maybe a month, and 60-70 takes much much longer.
After level 70 is like 1 level every 4 days of continuous fighting and spending real $$$.

I believe that at level 100, the exp required to level up is the total exp required to reach level 1-80. In other words, a single level takes months and months.
I think the number of people in the world who have ever reached the max level can be counted on a single hand.
Yet people spend thousands of dollars a month on items to level up faster and it's always a race.
That's all everyone really wants to do...level up.

I remember playing FFXI and we would just sit around in circles telling jokes and playing with the emotes. Those were good times.
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#7 Jun 15 2009 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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Izaacpaul wrote:
I really do agree with what you're saying. I hate how small each area is in WoW, and how easy it is to level.

Zones got a lot bigger in Outlands and Northrend FYI.

Izaacpaul wrote:
Also, leveling is too easy. I mean, 1 day you're like level 1 and saying "Look at that level 30's armor!", the next day you're calling that same guy a noob.
I got from level 1 to 8 with NO EFFORT at all in like 2 days.

Meh. Getting to level 20 in one night isn't too hard in WoW... Then again, getting to level 10 in one night isn't too hard in FFXI.

WoW really really front-loads the first few level-ups, the EXP required per level up increases quite significantly per level. A determined person who is focusing on leveling would reach level cap in about a month in WoW. Going from 79 to 80 takes about 2-3 days. Could be worse. Could be better.

The difficulty leveling in FFXI has more to do with getting 5 competent people to level with, than it did with actual difficulty.

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 6:35pm by Karelyn
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#8 Jun 15 2009 at 3:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have to totally agree with this. This is not something unique to Final Fantasy XI though. Every Final Fantasy has been about a deep intertwined story which runs through the course of the game. A long epic journey where you, together with your companions hone your skills, strengthen your character, gain new allies and enemies, overcome challenges, explore new areas and see new scenery, all while listening to a wonderful musical score. This embodies the very essence that a Final Fantasy title can offer. Who didn't feel the adrenalin rushing when you first entered the BC do kill that dragon for rank 2-3, together with your newly acquired friends. Learning about skill-chains and magic-bursts, getting XP chains and meeting interesting people. The hints at a more "casual" FFXIV has hade me worried, since pretty much every one of these things were done in a group. I feel that the total game experience would be so much less of some of these things could be done on your own instead of asking your friends to come with you.

The run to jueno, the quest for subjobs, the quest for chocobos and airship pass. Trying to get those keys or whatever they were for coffers, collecting quest items for genkais and so forth. While some of these things might have been challenging and time consuming, the sense of accomplishment from completing them is something I've never felt in any other MMO. I too feel that too much of the emphasis in new MMO's is content catered towards the final levels of the game, instead of having this long enjoyable journey throughout the game. I have great confidence in S-E that they can recognize what makes a Final Fantasy game great, and that they'll be able to reproduce it again in FFXIV, just like they did in FFXI.
#9 Jun 15 2009 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll be the next person to agree with the post. One of best features of XI was its pacing and personality.

Which is why I think we need to be asking (ineffectual as it may be) SquareEnix to, instead of speeding things up to a rate acceptable by everyone, try and reinforce FFXI's enjoyable pace in such-a-ways as to make it more obvious and enjoyable to more people. Basically, polishing the shine that FFXI fans already see so that more people can notice it in FFXIV.
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#10 Jun 15 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the op, but it seems to me that getting "all the way to the top in the least amount of time" is an ever growing trend in all MMOs.

I wonder if SE understands this and the whole premise of their "more natural" character growth system is actually designed to counter the "mad rush to the top" that so many MMO players engage in.
#11 Jun 15 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXI clone, no thanks, im not paying for something ive already bought. I'm sorry but all that ive read so far, is how FFXIV should keep all its same minor details. However I also play WoW and I do agree that the pace at which I leveled blacksmithing was rediculously fast and left me w/o a sense of accomplishment. But I have to say that im not willing to play another game where I lose exp everytime I die, and I think there are a lot of people who would agree, I believe SE knows that now. Im also agreeing there should be a penalty for dying, but not as serve as FFXI.

Edited, Jun 15th 2009 8:07pm by ffxivhaste
#12 Jun 15 2009 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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They're just saying they want FFXIV to feel the same way in terms of speed that FFXI did. That's not an FFXI clone. Not by a long shot.
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#13 Jun 15 2009 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But I have to say that im not willing to play another game where I lose exp everytime I die, and I think there are a lot of people who would agree, I believe SE knows that now. Im also agreeing there should be a penalty for dying, but not as serve as FFXI.


As someone else said. You have to lose something when you die, and exp/ap w/e it is, is the easiest thing to get back by fighting.
#14 Jun 15 2009 at 6:34 PM Rating: Default
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WoW's leveling pace wasn't that fast if you took the time to do the quests...infact so far for me its just been just as fast as my FFXI experience...

FFXI was way too slow paced. And the only reason it was slow paced because the developers needed something to make up for their lack of content. WoW has so much content to offer, that it can make everything fast paced and you wil still never be able to make it through all the content it has to offer. Final Fantasy 11 is bare. Theres very few quests and what quests their were took forever and hardly rewarding. And then there was the god aweful grind, a time sink. Yes sometimes the grind was fun when you had a fun party but that was the people , NOT the game.
I hope final fantasy 14 offers TONS more quests. Its sad, its a final fantasy game yet 11 had almost no plot to it. And what plot it did have was pathetic compared to any of the other previous final fantasy games.

Faster speed means more content. Thats all their is to it. And I rather have more content.
#15 Jun 15 2009 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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#16 Jun 15 2009 at 6:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I also believe in a death penalty of some sort. It really does add a level of immersion, it makes you really not want to die. Go play a survival horror game, and then go and play it with god mode on. I personally find I run through the game with no scares whatsoever when I have godmode on, but as soon as I am vulnerable I get the fear and scares that go with it.
#17 Jun 15 2009 at 6:41 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
WoW's leveling pace wasn't that fast if you took the time to do the quests...infact so far for me its just been just as fast as my FFXI experience...

FFXI was way too slow paced. And the only reason it was slow paced because the developers needed something to make up for their lack of content. WoW has so much content to offer, that it can make everything fast paced and you wil still never be able to make it through all the content it has to offer. Final Fantasy 11 is bare. Theres very few quests and what quests their were took forever and hardly rewarding. And then there was the god aweful grind, a time sink. Yes sometimes the grind was fun when you had a fun party but that was the people , NOT the game.
I hope final fantasy 14 offers TONS more quests. Its sad, its a final fantasy game yet 11 had almost no plot to it. And what plot it did have was pathetic compared to any of the other previous final fantasy games.

Faster speed means more content. Thats all their is to it. And I rather have more content.


Agreed. I couldn't have said it better myself.
The plot is indeed shallow. It did little to carry one off into a true fantasy world. That's just my opinion, though.
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#18 Jun 15 2009 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
WoW has so much content to offer, that it can make everything fast paced and you wil still never be able to make it through all the content it has to offer.


Clear Ulduar, get Gladiator, get exalted with all the factions you can. Tell me what content there is you can do beyond that. I played WoW and loved it for a long time, but I think you're giving it way too much credit.
#19 Jun 15 2009 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, WoW may have a lot fo quests, but a lot of them are pretty pointless. FFXI has good quests, but incentive besides story to do them. End game, you've got a new raid every few months. Or FFXI's multitude of things to do. If only FFXI's didn't take so long to get, well, anything.
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#20 Jun 15 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't argue for the request for there to be loads more quests in FFXIV than there were in FFXI. Not because they need to chase WoW, but because the quests in FFXI were really well written (even if the stories weren't that interesting, everything was still enjoyable to read, IMO) and it would be nice to see more of those that you could do to pass time and get XP (or whatever.)

One of the reasons I stopped FFXI was because I ran out of things to do (including quests) and levelling was turning out to be a real hassle. So give us more of the good stuff, too, SE.

zuogehaomeng wrote:
Faster speed means more content. Thats all their is to it. And I rather have more content.


? I... don't follow the logic behind this. I think they should keep the speed but increase the amount of content, so leveling up slowly doesn't so much mean that you're getting bored with the game.
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#21 Jun 15 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with the OP completely.

Gear in WoW is a paint job. Quests are just a means to an end (more XP and items that you're going to replace in the next zone anyway). Crafting is so trivial that there's no shared joy and frustrating among crafters, and no real reason to befriend high level crafters. The only social ties are guilds, and if they aren't formed from already existing friendships, they're almost always formed for the expressed (and exclusive) purpose of raiding.

FFXI is just better at creating that timeless sense of place. Waiting around in cities for parties to form is tedious, but it does give you a reason to talk to strangers. The fact that you can join many linkshells is also a great feature. You can have a link pearl for your hardcore raid group, and another for your social circle, and the two can even overlap without being identical.

Even something as simple as player Bazaars create a sense of place. You get used to seeing that strangely named Taru in the christmas hat who's always selling furniture, and he becomes part of the landscape.
#22 Jun 15 2009 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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The race feeling has less to do with any differences in WoW and FFXI and more to do with people playing FFXI before WoW with a large number having FFXI as their first MMORPG. A small part of it was due to the large amount of mystery surrounding everything in FFXI.

It's unfortunate, but usually someone's first serious MMORPG experience is their best MMORPG experience. They eventually may tire of the game, but the fun they had when they first picked it up usually doesn't compare to the fun they start off with in any new MMORPG. MMORPGs are so very, very different from most any other game genre. It tends to be a magical experience for most new players, until the novelty wears. PEopel still enjoy MMORPG long after that, but it's no longer a magical experience.

It's like when children grow out of tic tac toe. At first it's quite a fun game that can be easily played anywhere. But eventually children figure the game out, that the game can be solved, and that the game will always end in a tie if each player plays correctly. It then becomes boring, because they always know the outcome of the game. Nothing about the game has changed, only their understanding and foresight has changed.
#23 Jun 16 2009 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
One of my fondest memories of FFXI when it was released *Sparkly new* was that I never felt like I was in a race. I was never in a hurry to be the biggest, baddest, high-level out there. My first day of FFXI I went out to kill crawlers for a bit, came back in town and did auctions for a bit, sat and chatted with people outside the mog house till we had a big circle of random people (who eventually became friends). It was nice. I was never in a hurry to get *insert goal* before the next person did. For me, the path towards 75 (for the first time anyway) WAS the game. It was about the journey, not actually getting there. Being excited and a bit scared at every new turn, and not rushing past it resulted in more fond nostalgia, and built more memories for me than any game since has been able to. I was a tortoise who knew that the hare was just going to be smushed flat asking for a raise as I walked by on the way to the finish line.

I missed that greatly when WOW was released. Yes the game was fun in its own way, but nothing truly felt rewarding. No accomplishment felt like it was earned in the same way. Each zone felt like it was whisked away as fast as it approached, leveling went so fast. Combat dialog tended to fly by at such a rate that I was never even positive of the outcome unless I went back after each battle to read it again. Everything was just a rush to get to the end-game. Never once did I feel like my character was in any danger, or that any of the monsters were authentically scary. Death was just an annoyance, and if you were determined enough, you could just lunge at anything throwing caution to the wind. Rewards fell off of monsters like candy, and somewhere in the back of my mind I felt a bit of loathing to be wearing such powerful equipment without working hard to truly earn it.

This is my hope for FFXIV, that in a world where everyone is rushing to be bigger and better than everyone else, that FF14 won't have us flying past zones/areas without hardly experiencing them, that quests/missions will be memorable and monsters still scary. That combat and its log/text will still be at a pace that you can read and know whats going on. And yes, I actually hope that death has serious consequences. Cheating death, should always be part of the game. What's the point of risk-taking when there is little risk?
I hope FF14 can be "casual friendly" for people with limited time/attention span, but with a deeper rabbit hole for those of us wanting a more meaningful richer experience. Some things should take effort. Some things should take time. Rewards that are harder to obtain are far more shiny and bright.


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#24 Jun 16 2009 at 2:08 AM Rating: Good
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I totally agree with the OP too.

I played WoW too for some time but I came back to FFXI because WoW was nothing but a grindgame without a soul and as the OP said, rewards are far to easy to get and therefore you don't feel like you accomplished anything.
In fact it was even worse. You could work hard to get the best gear but Blizzard would ***** you with the next Update and that gear would be replaced with quest rewards in a couple of weeks.

In FFXI everything you do gives you the feeling that it's worth the time and that you accomplish something. That the time you spend online isn't wasted or lost.
On the other side this also makes it hard to let go of your char ^^;

As much as I thank SE for making FFXIV more appealing for casual players or people with limited time like myself, I hope that there will still be the need for partys to accomplish things.
After all, it's the people who make an MMO.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 12:10pm by RidingBean
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#25 Jun 16 2009 at 2:19 AM Rating: Default
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im sorrry but im gna refer tomy solo levelling thread. I completely agree with the slow pace as in WoW i would just play for non-stop avoiding doing stuff that will slow me down as i felt the only time the game was good was at cap and once i got there i thought to myself wow what have i been expecting.

in FFXIV i believe that giving players a chance to solo level will turn the atmosphere into a race.. previously it wass something you couldnt really control as all groups were different and zones were a new challenge. I just hope they allow it to feel in the same way that at all times YOU FEEL AS IF YOU ARE AT CAP even if your not because thats what i felt about FFXIV i enjoyed the wait inbetween groups to do stuff which id do at endgame on wow , getting to know people and going crazy when you get a good party is what its all about the levelling in FFXIV even though viewed as pretty plain to other mmo gamers is what i love most about it.. Its not heavy on the mind and at the same time you gotta be careful

#26 Jun 16 2009 at 3:40 AM Rating: Good
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ffxivhaste wrote:
FFXI clone, no thanks, im not paying for something ive already bought. I'm sorry but all that ive read so far, is how FFXIV should keep all its same minor details. However I also play WoW and I do agree that the pace at which I leveled blacksmithing was rediculously fast and left me w/o a sense of accomplishment. But I have to say that im not willing to play another game where I lose exp everytime I die, and I think there are a lot of people who would agree, I believe SE knows that now. Im also agreeing there should be a penalty for dying, but not as serve as FFXI.


I don't think that's what the OP is saying. He wishes to have a similar experience to FFXI in terms of enjoyment and accomplishment, not content.

zuogehaomeng wrote:
WoW's leveling pace wasn't that fast if you took the time to do the quests...infact so far for me its just been just as fast as my FFXI experience...

FFXI was way too slow paced. And the only reason it was slow paced because the developers needed something to make up for their lack of content. WoW has so much content to offer, that it can make everything fast paced and you wil still never be able to make it through all the content it has to offer. Final Fantasy 11 is bare. Theres very few quests and what quests their were took forever and hardly rewarding. And then there was the god aweful grind, a time sink. Yes sometimes the grind was fun when you had a fun party but that was the people , NOT the game.
I hope final fantasy 14 offers TONS more quests. Its sad, its a final fantasy game yet 11 had almost no plot to it. And what plot it did have was pathetic compared to any of the other previous final fantasy games.

Faster speed means more content. Thats all their is to it. And I rather have more content.


FFXI had alot more about "good" content rather than being totally filled with pointless kill x, collect y, deliver z quests. Honestly, after killing about 20 different kinds of rats, bats, wolves, furbolgs, elks, spiders, tigers, ghosts, skeletons and sh*t throughout the game, for no other reason than 2 gold and a choice between 4 green items, I think I'll be able to survive with having them traded out for something more interesting like missions. Of course, I would like to see some more quests in the game, as long as they don't fill it with thousands of pointless quests which noone ever reads, they just click, click, click their way through the dialogue so they can see what objective needs to be done. As for story, I think FFXI had a way bigger focus on a storyline than WoW ever had.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 7:44am by muppenz
#27 Jun 16 2009 at 5:25 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXI had alot more about "good" content rather than being totally filled with pointless kill x, collect y, deliver z quests. Honestly, after killing about 20 different kinds of rats, bats, wolves, furbolgs, elks, spiders, tigers, ghosts, skeletons and sh*t throughout the game, for no other reason than 2 gold and a choice between 4 green items

And leveling in FFXI involved what exactly? Yes, FFXI had missions. A definate plus over WoW. but don't act like the kill x quests were stupid when to level in FFXi involves nothing BUT grinding the same mobs over and over again for 75 levels, for nothing but exp, not even that little bit of gold or equipment. Oh sure, you might come away with a couple items at the end of the day, fi you're lucky, but that's it.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 10:27am by Raymund
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#28 Jun 16 2009 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't agree more with the OP.. i really hope they find a good way to make people that have little time to play feel like theyre still able to achieve certain things but pretty much keep the depth and challenge of the game including the importance of teamplay on the same line as FFXI.
#29 Jun 16 2009 at 6:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree. I loved the fact that in FFXI I could often just sit and chat, or craft, or fish and not feel the need to race to the level cap. There will always be people that want to be the first there, but I (and I'm sure lots others) like to take it slow and enjoy the game.

Personally I think that when a game has PVP in it, that's when people want to be at the cap first. WOW and WAR for example. Sure there was endgame to do in FFXI, but it never really mattered if other people were there before you because at least they weren't going to gank you. (well with the odd exception of stealing your farming spot and stuff like that).

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#30 Jun 16 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Pikko wrote:
loxenfox wrote:
This is my hope for FFXIV, that in a world where everyone is rushing to be bigger and better than everyone else, that FF14 won't have us flying past zones/areas without hardly experiencing them, that quests/missions will be memorable and monsters still scary. That combat and its log/text will still be at a pace that you can read and know whats going on. And yes, I actually hope that death has serious consequences. Cheating death, should always be part of the game. What's the point of risk-taking when there is little risk?


I totally heard this in booming movie trailer voice! Smiley: laugh

Great post though and I do agree, the bum rush race to be the best has never been an attractive feature for me. I'm for some kind of penalty when you die as well. Simply not caring just changes the way you look at the game for some reason.


Pikko you just made me chuckle like a little giddy school girl, lmao.

And I'm pretty sure SE realizes how much of the player-base enjoyed the environmental and exploration factors of FFXI. I have no doubt in my mind they will definately do an even better job than FFXI.
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OMFG that sh*t drives me insane...my character is my @#%^ing character damnit, not a 'toon'. Everytime I hear wow lingo I think I'm on a *** **** set:
"OK in this fight basically the toons are gonna tank and spank. hey man stop playing with your twink! How much is a kraken club now? 30 million gold?"
#31 Jun 16 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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Raymund wrote:
FFXI had alot more about "good" content rather than being totally filled with pointless kill x, collect y, deliver z quests. Honestly, after killing about 20 different kinds of rats, bats, wolves, furbolgs, elks, spiders, tigers, ghosts, skeletons and sh*t throughout the game, for no other reason than 2 gold and a choice between 4 green items

And leveling in FFXI involved what exactly? Yes, FFXI had missions. A definate plus over WoW. but don't act like the kill x quests were stupid when to level in FFXi involves nothing BUT grinding the same mobs over and over again for 75 levels, for nothing but exp, not even that little bit of gold or equipment. Oh sure, you might come away with a couple items at the end of the day, fi you're lucky, but that's it.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 10:27am by Raymund


That's one thing I missed when I came from EQ1 to FFXI. Most of the dungeon camps in EQ were based in areas where named enemies spawned. The chance of getting a rare piece of gear went a long way to make the grind more exciting.

As for FFXI's content, there are a TON of quests and missions to do. I've been playing for most of the last six years and still haven't come close to finishing everything. Not to mention the fact that my character has access to all the jobs in the game and I've only maxed out a few. My character feels more like an investment because everything I've done over the years still has value today.

I agree with the OP and hope FFXIV has some depth to it. With SE's track record I'm fairly confident it will. I don't want to see another game like WoW that waters down the experience and hands out constant rewards in an attempt to quickly hook new players and build subs. I feel sorry for those who's first MMO was WoW and think that's what a MMO should be like.
#32 Jun 16 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I hope FFXIV's quests have at least a little more reward than many of FFXI's had.
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#33 Jun 16 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I got from level 1 to 8 with NO EFFORT at all in like 2 days.


lol.. that takes about 2-3 hours in ffxi.. about the same in WoW. Neither require effort.
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#34 Jun 16 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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I agree 200% - 100% for me, and 100% for my friend that quit because of the 'race' aspect of the game. RIP Tala. Smiley: glare
#35 Jun 16 2009 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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i agree with the op. part of ffxi's charm is the communal hardships we all share. we all knows the down side of the game. when ever i see a crafter fail a synth and loose a expensive material for that craft i always /comfort them. we all have been there in one way or another.


for me i remember the miss adventures more then i remember the successful one. i mean which one sticks out in your mind more. the 100 bc runs with no ***** ups or that time someone important gets killed, dc's or some one screws up royally and you still pull out the clutch win. to me that's the magic of xi, were all playing this ball busting organ grinding game. the community is tight nit because of it. and when we beat it at its own game we all do a happy dance becauls we are stronger for the experience.

and i really hope that xiv is the same way.
#36 Jun 16 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i agree with the op. part of ffxi's charm is the communal hardships we all share. we all knows the down side of the game. when ever i see a crafter fail a synth and loose a expensive material for that craft i always /comfort them. we all have been there in one way or another.


for me i remember the miss adventures more then i remember the successful one. i mean which one sticks out in your mind more. the 100 bc runs with no ***** ups or that time someone important gets killed, dc's or some one screws up royally and you still pull out the clutch win. to me that's the magic of xi, were all playing this ball busting organ grinding game. the community is tight nit because of it. and when we beat it at its own game we all do a happy dance becauls we are stronger for the experience.

and i really hope that xiv is the same way.


What I remember most are the positive side of things, such as the Speed Belt+3 mil worth of added drops from KSNM, and my Kraken Club on the second run. Pretty sweet times. I was the envy of my LS lol.
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#37 Jun 16 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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its all true.... it really is...

every MMO i played it was always a rush to get to the max level first and be among the top players so to speak.

FF11 was different... i never cared about reaching lvl 75, in fact i only have 1 job at lvl 75 b4 i quit. i was WAY more interested in the other things u could do. crafting, fishing, exploring, killing NM's for rare equips, doing the story quests, chatting with lsmates, helping them out, avatar hunting, farming, farming some more, charming the karken in qufim and have it rape gigas and snips, collecting maps, and theres so much more.
good times good times

if ff14 can capture that same magic, thats all the incentive i need to play it for 4+ years.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 7:20pm by Leyego
#38 Jun 16 2009 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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then again i am not you, and you are not me. the reasons above are the reasons that ffxi still has the magic that no other mmo can touch for me. call me a ********* but i can not wait for us to all have our collective butts kicked in 14.


when i got my B. Haidate i was speechless. any one who knows me in game knows how much of a rarity that is, after all that time and effort the falls and the heart breaks it made the fruit all that much sweeter to the taste for me.
#39 Jun 16 2009 at 3:38 PM Rating: Default
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No matter what there will always be someone who wants to be first in everything. With that in mind, does any one remember when BLU 1st came out people were in a rush to get to 75 1st. In doing so they skipped out on a lot of spells to get there. Yeah they were 75 but had really no spells.
IIRC a lot were concerned that due to SE wording and interputation when blu was realeased and how one can aquire the spell was from a mob that yielded experience. The blue forums was spammed with OMG can i still learn spells from too weak mobs that i didnt get a spell from just to hit 75.

Take that into account with FFXIV - If people rush to be the 1st to max lv... thats their choice in skipping things along the way to be the 1st on the server. Now for the evil part... bear in mind just a thought/idea..... the things that u skipped over to be the 1st you can't go back and get them... meaning yeah your a max lv char but you have no abilities.

Might put a new meaning on being the 1st... would one call that being the 1st loser?

<mid lv char> "Hey (max lv char), can you help me with killing this NM for me please"
<max lv char> "Sorry, i can't help you at this time because i have no abilities or anything else that can help ya in killing it"

Highly doubt SE would do something like that but would be funny to see it though. People do have a lot more free time to play any game than other people, so yeah they will be the 1st to max lv faster then the casual player.
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#40 Jun 16 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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To the OP wonderfully written. I have been playing FFXI since shortly after NA release. The journey was where you met friends, and learned allot about game mechanics and party dynamics. It was certainly a blast on the way up.

That in mind there are certainly things that still offer no reward for the effort put forth. Many crafts are near worthless to completely worthless depending on server. This is where SE could take a note from a few other MMO out there. Create a gil/hr baseline per level of craft. But it is important that one can not simply powerlevel a craft. It must be time and effort intensive with REAL quests and obstacles that discourage RMT who wont take the risk on a character likely to be banned. This way real players can enjoy money earning through npc based activities and selling items to other players when demand is sufficient. This was the way I have always been hoping SE would take. Crafting could have cool and interesting story lines.

The next sore spot is the random nature that can leave people with nothing after years of effort. Time and difficulty should reward you. Knowing that if you keep at it you will have that desired weapon in 2 months 6 months whatever... Not I may one day get smiled upon by fate and then after three years still not see the reward. The random junk drops from normal mobs don't really bother me one way or another. I also see this as a way to stave off allot of drama where people play favorites on distributing rewards.

But I certainly do agree I will only be rushing to install the game with childlike excitement after which I will team up with friends and start having fun.... ***** the peak its time to explore and find funny ways to get killed. Endgame will always be there anyway.
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#41 Jun 16 2009 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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PrinnyFlute wrote:
I wouldn't argue for the request for there to be loads more quests in FFXIV than there were in FFXI. Not because they need to chase WoW, but because the quests in FFXI were really well written (even if the stories weren't that interesting, everything was still enjoyable to read, IMO) and it would be nice to see more of those that you could do to pass time and get XP (or whatever.)

One of the reasons I stopped FFXI was because I ran out of things to do (including quests) and levelling was turning out to be a real hassle. So give us more of the good stuff, too, SE.

zuogehaomeng wrote:
Faster speed means more content. Thats all their is to it. And I rather have more content.


? I... don't follow the logic behind this. I think they should keep the speed but increase the amount of content, so leveling up slowly doesn't so much mean that you're getting bored with the game.


The logic is simple. You think people keep playing WoW because the game doesn't get new content? As soon as the content dries up, the players will leave. Thats why you never finish mmorpgs. But if the content is faster to complete, that means they have to make more content to keep it drying up.

Really though some of you don't really act like you've played FFXI. There was absolutely nothing HARD about FFXI, just tediously LONG. It took FOREVER just to walk anywhere. Wheather it was your camp for leveling, or to do anything. Thats not hard, that just means pressing your keyboard forever. Sure in some areas you were forced to 'sneak' and 'invis' through, but once you got the hang of it , it was easy.

I remember when I got my Peacock's Charm (BEFORE it was rare ex). Once again the only HARD aspect was TIME. I had to wait hours and hours to get the pop time and eventually I got it after hours of lack of sleep, not because it was challenging.

Some of the End game NMs were challenging and thats all. And even then the fights were so slow, how could you mess up?

Oh yeah and "Promathia Missions" which were generally considered one of the most difficult aspects of the game during the 3 years I played, were a joke. The only HARD part, was once again, TIME. They took forever, and it was nearly impossible to find the people with the time and patience to do it. And if you did, they were easy to complete as all get out.

And synthing? Wasnt hard, you pressed a couple of buttons and bam! Your character synths, with random chances of breaking...and oh theirs farming...great more mindless hours of nothing. You dont have to think to farm.

Anyways as much as some of you don't like to admit it, FFXI is not challenging. Any of their previous games are alot harder than this one.

Now im not arguing other MMORPGs are more challenging than FFXI, I'm just arguing FFXI isn't challenging at all.

My hope is FFIXV delievers more stratgey than FFXI. Faster pace battles that require you to think fast and come up with ideas to defeat monsters instead of beating it to death with as much dmg as possible. And not only that but reward players not because they are willing to spend 356 days worth of play time in the game but for actually solving challenging obstacles.
#42 Oct 21 2009 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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The best part of FFXI's pace for me was the fact that once I got a decent peice of equipment it was good for a while. I could expect to wear it for a few weeks. There were even times that a certain peice of gear was the best for 15+ levels. It makes it easier to take some time off the grind to do some of the other things you enjoy such as NM hunting or whatever it was you chose to do. It wasn't a constant race to get the next set of gear becuase the next set of gear could be 10 levels away.

In my first six months I had one job to 65 and 4 mid level jobs. The grind was fun. I truly enjoyed grouping with people, talking some trash, telling some jokes, killing some mobs, and then at the end of the run telling everyone that I wished them well.

In WoW though I didn't ever have any time to stop and smell the flowers, becuase there was new gear to get constantly and if I didn't want to fall behind I had to go get it. Not to mention that I had my very first character max level (60 at the time) in under a month and that was besides leveling several alts to 30-40s. It is sad, in my opinion, that the only personal challenge or competition I had in WoW were the rather repetative pvp battlefields, and then only when fighting twinks. While I played WoW though the only times I ever grouped was for instanced dungeons. The groups weren't personal. Nobody wanted to make friends when they have no real need for anything more than a social/end game raid guild. Everybody just did their job, got through the instance, and then we went our own ways usually without much more than "cya". The PvE however was tedious, repetative, and not much fun. Sure WoW has a trillion times more quests than FFXI but 96% (could be higher it's just a guess) of them were "kill 20-50 of [mob name here] and return". About level 40 I stopped doing quests and went nearly straight grind. It was faster, not nearly as much run around, and if I did some research I was grinding an area with a rare spawn that could potentially drop something nifty.

I'm not trying to talk bad about WoW, really I'm not. In fact I really liked it for the two months that it kept me entertained. The PvP in WoW is second only to Perfect World International.

FFXI just had a much better pace for my personal tastes.

#43 Oct 22 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
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Necropoooost.


I agree with the OP, however.
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#44 Oct 22 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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loxenfox wrote:
Yes the game was fun in its own way, but nothing truly felt rewarding.
Obviously you never raided in Vanilla WoW.
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#45 Oct 22 2009 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Obviously you never raided in Vanilla WoW.


Refer to Sig.
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#46 Oct 22 2009 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
In WoW though I didn't ever have any time to stop and smell the flowers, becuase there was new gear to get constantly and if I didn't want to fall behind I had to go get it. Not to mention that I had my very first character max level (60 at the time) in under a month and that was besides leveling several alts to 30-40s.


This is kind of a recurring theme, and I know that this thread is necrobumped but I wanted to respond anyway. The game didn't make you race to the finish line - you did that on your own. It seems that people who have already played an MMO once - for a lot of us on this forum FFXI was our first - and after having that experience where you are just interested in the world and learning things and just... well, BEING... you go to another MMO and all of a sudden its a "been there, done that, gimme xp" race to the finish.

World of Warcraft really isn't any faster than any other game unless you do nothing but grind levels 24/7, which is what people tend to do if they came from another MMO (especially FFXI) because level cap is seen as the end all - be all "start" of the game. Naturally people want to get there and forget to experience the world itself.

I also have a good chuckle about people saying that WoW leveling is too easy. FFXI leveling is easier than ever with FoV, Campaign, MMM, **** even helping with some missions is netting xp. How long before we start saying that "leveling in FFXI is too easy"? (Don't get me started on SMN burns....).

I'm afraid that FFXIV will have that same "race" so to speak just because we already have this idea of what MMOs are like from our experience in XI. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


#47 Oct 22 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
Pikko wrote:
loxenfox wrote:
This is my hope for FFXIV, that in a world where everyone is rushing to be bigger and better than everyone else, that FF14 won't have us flying past zones/areas without hardly experiencing them, that quests/missions will be memorable and monsters still scary. That combat and its log/text will still be at a pace that you can read and know whats going on. And yes, I actually hope that death has serious consequences. Cheating death, should always be part of the game. What's the point of risk-taking when there is little risk?


I totally heard this in booming movie trailer voice! Smiley: laugh

So did I. Too bad the guy behind that voice passed away last year. RIP Don LaFontaine.

Back on topic: I would also hope for a more casual pace. I don't have time to play FFXI as much as I used to, and plan to quit when FFXIV comes out (if not before). Since it has been stated that you can go through the entire game without fighting, I may just spend my days going around Eorzea looking for places to fish.
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#48 Oct 22 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Skeptic wrote:
Quote:
Obviously you never raided in Vanilla WoW.


Refer to Sig.
Okay? So you're some *** Sephiroth fanboy?
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#49 Oct 22 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Okay? So you're some *** Sephiroth fanboy?


No.
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#50 Oct 22 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
Skeptic wrote:
Quote:
Okay? So you're some *** Sephiroth fanboy?


No.


Skeptic wrote:
I will not pick up Final Fantasy XIV if Sephiroth is not a playable character.

/end.
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#51 Oct 22 2009 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh come on. That was obviously a joke.

He says enough things that legitimately warrant shunning, we don't really need to peck at every opportunity.

Quote:
As someone else said. You have to lose something when you die, and exp/ap w/e it is, is the easiest thing to get back by fighting.


You always lose time. In basically every game. Since the dawn of video games, when you die and have to reset, or go from game over-> menu-> save point. That's very different from god mode.

Some punish you with far less time than others, but honestly, even when it's 20 seconds and then you start over from where you just were, it can be very frustrating. Especially when you're faced with a real challenge and you might have to retry 20 times.

But it always comes down to time. Whether it's 10 seconds or 10 hours. Personally I'll take less-- dying always sucks. And when it's severe it discourages you from taking on tougher challenges, which makes the game super boring.
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