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FFXIV - A clash of communitiesFollow

#52 Jun 16 2009 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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I don't want to disagree- just compare the both games, because I find this quite interesting!

Quote:
In WoW, I believe every race/gender has the following different player combat animations...
Casting (three animations used for different spells)
Two-handed Weapon (two animations each for 5 different weapons, ten total)
One-handed Weapon (two animations each for 5 different weapons, ten total)
Ranged Weapon (one animations for each of 3 different weapons, three total)
Special Attack animations (I think around 7 different ones per race)
Block
Parry
Dodge
Being hit (two animations)


I'm not sure what you mean by casting animation- white/black magic etc.?

There's white, black, blue magic animation as well as summoning and ninjutsu. They're not 100% unique to each race, but they are sginificantly different.

By two/one-handed animations do you mean that when you hit, there's 2 kinds of animations that you can get when you swing? I'll go by that assumption and change if necessary. And you're talking about weapon types? Mace, club etc.?

Two-handed weapon (three animations each for 6 different weapons)
One-handed weapon (three animations each for 5 different weapons, plus three more for Hand-to-hand weapon)
Ranged weapon (one animation for each of 3 different weapons, three total)
Special attack animations (I don't know, you mean like when you use weapon skill or ability? There's about 12 weapon skills per weapon, so 11*12 = 132, plus ranged weapon skills add about 3~5. There's many duplicates though, so I'd say 100 different total).
Block and parry, dodge has no animation and being hit has a small animation (barely noticeable).
Also the "using ability" animation that is as basic as it gets.

However what I like is the overall smoothness of the animation, the hits connect fully, there's little "skipping" animations, and it feels natural most of the time.

But it's the neat, small things that make me truly prefer XI. When I get the last hit when using hand-to-hand weapon, it is done in a slight slowmotion to make the impact feel stronger.. took me a while to notice it though. If you don't mind one more vid, I'll show you the more recent weapon skills; I'd like you to especially note the animation when monsters die, it feels very natural.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg_vPzlemAU&feature=related

EDIT: And the characters are most definitely not rock-solid when standing, although they don't yawn or anything like that =/. We even got dancing animations few months ago ._.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 6:57pm by Hyanmen
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#53 Jun 16 2009 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I rated you up Hynamen. That was a pretty sweet compilation of the newer WS's that some of us veteran players have might not have seen. Thank you^^
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#54 Jun 16 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I rated you up Hynamen. That was a pretty sweet compilation of the newer WS's that some of us veteran players have might not have seen. Thank you^^


Thanks. I don't want to argue that FFXI has "better" animations because in the end I think that it's mostly based on opinion rather than fact. I just find the comparison interesting (although it may seem like I want to prove him wrong, it's not what I want).
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#55 Jun 16 2009 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by casting animation- white/black magic etc.?

The way a character throws their hands in the air when they cast a spell. None of the things I am talking about are "special effects" lightshows. To the best of my knowledge, every skill in WoW has a completely different special effect. Though some share character animations.

I'm pretty sure there are three, very different animations for the casting of a magical spell for a player.

One is for "bolt" type spells, like flinging fireballs or lightning at an enemy. Pretty straightforward attacks. Typically looks like something like a Kame-Kame-Ha, or maybe throwing a baseball, or some other general slinging animation.

Another is for more subtle magic spells... buffs, healing, a spell that summons roots out of the ground to entangle the enemy's feet. Tends to look like something like throwing one or both of the hands over their head, the character may have one hand in a fist over their heart, or something like that.

The third animation is for channeled or Area of Effect spells, spells like summoning a meteorstorm that lasts for 20 seconds or something like that. Tends to look something like a "powering up" animation from an anime.

Every single race has a very different different animation for each of these three "types" of spells. There may be a few animations I'm forgetting though, I haven't played a caster for a while in WoW.

Quote:
By two/one-handed animations do you mean that when you hit, there's 2 kinds of animations that you can get when you swing? I'll go by that assumption and change if necessary. And you're talking about weapon types? Mace, club etc.?

There are several types of weapons.

Two handed swords. Two handed Maces. Two handed Axes. Two handed polearms. One handed axes. One handed swords. One handed Maces. One handed daggers. Fist weapons, AKA brace knuckle type weapons (typically known as "unarmed"). Each of these weapons has two different animations for a basic auto-attack, that the game choses randomly between which to display.

As for melee skills (AKA special attacks, active abilities), they have different animations. I play a female tauren, one of my animations is shoving the shield into the enemies face, one is backhanding them with the shield, and one is a dramatic spin slash with my sword. Several skills tend to use the same animation though, sadly.

Quote:
However what I like is the overall smoothness of the animation, the hits connect fully, there's little "skipping" animations, and it feels natural most of the time.

The skipping in WoW can be annoying. There seems to be a priority system of which animation shows up on the screen, if multiple occur at the same time, which leads to an animation getting interrupted midway through on occassions.

I promise to watch your video later hun when I'm not on a public computer that blocks youtube.
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#56 Jun 16 2009 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The skipping in WoW can be annoying. There seems to be a priority system of which animation shows up on the screen, if multiple occur at the same time, which leads to an animation getting interrupted midway through on occassions.


I think FFXI has it's fair share of this kind of skipping as well, sadly. What I mean is something else.. hm, maybe not another animation taking priority over another, but the animation itself lacking for example some movement of hands that would feel natural if you did it yourself.. it's hard to explain, but

I watched some WoW vids which had some animation examples like hitting with a 2 handed weapon. It wasn't nearly as bad as I remembered (still a bit of that "something" there but not too noticeable), so in the end it might be just different style Blizzard is using. Don't know.
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#57 Jun 16 2009 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Hyanmen wrote:
I watched some WoW vids which had some animation examples like hitting with a 2 handed weapon. It wasn't nearly as bad as I remembered (still a bit of that "something" there but not too noticeable), so in the end it might be just different style Blizzard is using. Don't know.

It depends. Some are worse than others. The animations really are supposed to reflect the races. The animations of Taurens and Dwarves for example, are very solid, like you would expect such large heavy creatures to be. Very slow but determined animations. On the other hand, elves and gnomes tend to be very bouncy and mobile. And Undead look laughably paranoid and slightly crazed.

It's a different style, but it isn't bad. I can easily appreciate both a realistic style, and an exaggurated cartoony style. I honestly think the reason I like my Female Tauren so much is primarially because I like her animations better than other races.
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#58 Jun 16 2009 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default
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One thing we tend to forget is WoW is Region-specific, while FFXI is Global. My character is on Odin, a JP-dominated server with a good amount of Germans as well. As a whole, civilized individuals over time will adapt to the most stringent moral code versus the other way around. Having worked for a cable company in both a rural area of Florida and Miami I can tell you that for a fact. Cable television have public access channels, these channels can have ANY programming consistent with the ethical values of that community. This means that Florella FL in the sticks has a bible study at 3am while Miami FL has a topless girl jumping rope and doing cheerleader cheers (literal examples) Neither of which got complaints even though not everyone in Florella was a Christian, and not everyone in Miami wanted to see perky white tits while trying to get ready for work.

Now to be offensive of my own nationality, The majority of Americans are pigs, jerks, have an extremely low respect for elders, and no respect for decency, and as a result of being such a prosperous nation, tend to like things relatively easy compared to eastern nations. To those of you that learned Japanese for one reason or another, you learned the multiple different ways to express any 1 sentence mattering on who you are saying it to, to show respect. This is why the JP Onry stigma exists on odin, and why any American who visits Europe or Japan will stick out like a sore thumb, we are ********.

Now, look at these three facts; people tend to adapt to the more stringent ethical standard, Americans have one of the LOWEST ethical standards, and the two games you are comparing are Regional versus Global. That means that WoW players in America are bound by a different "social stigmas" than the same American player on Odin trying to fit in with the polite and thankful players of other nations. THEREFORE, potty humor, treacherous behavior, idiocy, and insanely bad spelling POSSIBLY is not the result of a different caliber of person, but a different caliber of ethical expectation put on that person by it's community. This does not mean the same behavior does not occur on both games, but in 1 you get a slap on the wrist, worst case losing that toon, while the other leads to a ruined reputation, and possibly even banning your credit card.
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#59 Jun 16 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Now to be offensive of my own nationality, The majority of Americans are pigs, jerks, have an extremely low respect for elders, and no respect for decency, and as a result of being such a prosperous nation, tend to like things relatively easy compared to eastern nations. To those of you that learned Japanese for one reason or another, you learned the multiple different ways to express any 1 sentence mattering on who you are saying it to, to show respect. This is why the JP Onry stigma exists on odin, and why any American who visits Europe or Japan will stick out like a sore thumb, we are @#%^s.


Exactly right. As a Navy veteran, I was absolutely ashamed of some of my fellow Americans, who were being plain rude and obnoxious to the locals there, expecting them to know English. I did my best to dress like a European, because I was so embarrassed by drunk sailors starting fights, throwing beer bottles, and being overly crude to females. However, I never did pick up Italian, though I lived there for two years. It was impossible to learn when I spent that two years traveling to 31 countries. I could spot an American 1,000 yards away.
Fortunately, my grandparents taught me how to respect elders. I treated my time in the Navy as though I were a diplomat, representing the best of what America has to offer. Not all of us are pricks, but many of us are.
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#60 Jun 16 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:

Because for some strange reason people tend to integrate themselves into a collective in such a way that the collective represents them. It's the same thing with sports fans. When you insult FFXI or the Red Wings the individual choose to take it as a personal insult.


It's called "tribalism." People do it with political parties too. After awhile they identify so strongly with a particular party that they forget why they started supporting that party in the first place. The party affiliation becomes such a part of personal identity that supporters would rather engage in cognitive dissonance than admit that the party could be wrong, and an election loss is taken as a personal set back.

#61 Jun 16 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Ixious wrote:
Now to be offensive of my own nationality, The majority of Americans are pigs, jerks, have an extremely low respect for elders, and no respect for decency, and as a result of being such a prosperous nation, tend to like things relatively easy compared to eastern nations. To those of you that learned Japanese for one reason or another, you learned the multiple different ways to express any 1 sentence mattering on who you are saying it to, to show respect. This is why the JP Onry stigma exists on odin, and why any American who visits Europe or Japan will stick out like a sore thumb, we are @#%^s.


I don't know what is wrong with the people where you live...maybe you have a horrible circle of friends but most of the people I know are decent respectable people. I have lived in Europe (Portugal, to be exact) and even though I am a 6'2" 250 lb red headed American who looks nothing like a Portuguese (or European, for that matter) people often had me mistaken for a European of various nations and actually, at the end of my stay there, when I had full command of the language, they often mistook me for a Portuguese. Every single American I saw there acted much the same way. In fact, if there were any people there that I would consider pigs and jerks during my stay it would have been the French.

I also think it laughable that you think Americans have the lowest ethical standards. Have you even been to Europe? Or maybe you're a European who has never been the the US. And then you link this to WoW...your whole post is pathetic.
#62 Jun 16 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
Karelyn wrote:

It's been a long time since I played FFXI, did characters have idle animations? I seem to recall that they did not. That when you stood almost perfectly still, the character stood perfectly rock solid still for hours at a time unmoving and unbreathing.

That was creepy.


It was also not true. Your characters clearly breath and do not stand their like a rock. They do not, however, start doing their own things such as stretching, tapping their foot or make funny faces. And I'm fine with that.
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#63 Jun 16 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
In fact, if there were any people there that I would consider pigs and jerks during my stay it would have been the French.


I've been to Toulon, Versaille, and Monte Carlo. The French were kind of rude to everyone. Great food, though, btw. No offense if you happen to be French, but sheesh. Been to Lisbon, Portugal, too. Beautiful city^^

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 3:47pm by TheJollyjokers
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#64 Jun 16 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

I also think it laughable that you think Americans have the lowest ethical standards. Have you even been to Europe? Or maybe you're a European who has never been the the US. And then you link this to WoW...your whole post is pathetic.


Amazingly, if you had read the post or noted my spelling of words, you would notice that I am indeed American, having worked both in populous cities and rural areas.

As for my experience overseas, I have been to Germany, Ireland, Japan, Canada, Mexico, and most of the East Indies, most of the above for a year or more. I am not saying that EVERY SINGLE American is a slavish pig, as there are indeed still parents out there teaching their children right from wrong, and schools out there not afraid of their own PTA, but I am saying that as a whole a bus of Americans dropped off in the middle of Tokyo would come off as that stereotype, where the same bus of European, Chinese, Singaporean, or Korean tourists would be seen in a more positive light. If you need another example, see Japanese or German schools versus the playpens we call elementary and secondary education.
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#65 Jun 16 2009 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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If I'm not mistaken, it's actually the British that are known for being the worst tourists...
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#66 Jun 16 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
In XI, often before a person acts, they have to think about their reputation. Your reputation sticks with you the entire game. It's one of the things I enjoy about it. If you've established yourself as a total *******, people will know it.


I totally agree with this, which is why the FFXI model of changing jobs while keeping the same character is great.

I hope its the same in FFXIV.

I would always be pleasant and considerate to all other players. I feared having any sort of bad rep as just starting a new character having built up all your acheivements on one character was not an option for me. ;)

(not that I'd be nasty at any time anyway, but it is a good deterrent for all.)
#67 Jun 16 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The way a character throws their hands in the air when they cast a spell. None of the things I am talking about are "special effects" lightshows. To the best of my knowledge, every skill in WoW has a completely different special effect. Though some share character animations.


Dreanei deathknight walks up to a monster and begins swinging his 2 hand axe once every second.

He then uses blood strike. One extra swing is performed between normal swings with no additional effects.

The word BLOODSTRIKE 2000 damage floats slowly into the air!

He uses an icey touch. Points at the target as a snokeflake appears on the monster momentarily.

The word ICYTOUCH 2000 damage floats slowly into the air!

Particle effects != character animation.
#68 Jun 16 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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So, with FFXIV coming, we are hearing a lot from both burnt out FFXI and Wow players wanting to give it a go. As someone who has played both games quite a lot, I can safely say that the general attitude of players in each game is completely different to the other. How do you think these people will interact with each other when the time comes? I personally foresee a lot of drama and "prior-game" elitism.


Don't forget that Blizzard has a "Not-so-secret" secret MMO in the works as well. Blizcon is in August (always around my birthday which is why I remember.), and I'm guessing we'll hear more about this secret MMO then. It could be something that Blizzard may have planned to counter FF14 directly to steal away players. You never know about what inside-info game developers get wind of and who it is that's doing alpha testing. (We've seen it before in the game and movie industry. How often has a specific movie/games had rip-off clones arriving prior to the actual movie? I know of quite a few.)
Also a WOW X-pac is in progress, as well as Blizzards Warcraft Movie. Make no mistake, Blizzard is doing everything possible to draw in new players, as well as keep the ones they have. They're pretty vicious.
Sadly, the amazing news of FF14 will likely have its hype trampled on by whatever news pops out at Blizcon. The world is THAT obsessed over WOW.

If FF14 and either of these Bliz planned roadblocks release at the same time, then FFXI players may not even have to worry about interacting with a lot of WOW players as the fickle crowd that they are, may not even be willing to try out 14 when some other Blizzard created carrot is dangling in their face.
#69 Jun 16 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Default
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loxenfox wrote:
Quote:
So, with FFXIV coming, we are hearing a lot from both burnt out FFXI and Wow players wanting to give it a go. As someone who has played both games quite a lot, I can safely say that the general attitude of players in each game is completely different to the other. How do you think these people will interact with each other when the time comes? I personally foresee a lot of drama and "prior-game" elitism.


Don't forget that Blizzard has a "Not-so-secret" secret MMO in the works as well. Blizcon is in August (always around my birthday which is why I remember.), and I'm guessing we'll hear more about this secret MMO then. It could be something that Blizzard may have planned to counter FF14 directly to steal away players. You never know about what inside-info game developers get wind of and who it is that's doing alpha testing. (We've seen it before in the game and movie industry. How often has a specific movie/games had rip-off clones arriving prior to the actual movie? I know of quite a few.)
Also a WOW X-pac is in progress, as well as Blizzards Warcraft Movie. Make no mistake, Blizzard is doing everything possible to draw in new players, as well as keep the ones they have. They're pretty vicious.
Sadly, the amazing news of FF14 will likely have its hype trampled on by whatever news pops out at Blizcon. The world is THAT obsessed over WOW.

If FF14 and either of these Bliz planned roadblocks release at the same time, then FFXI players may not even have to worry about interacting with a lot of WOW players as the fickle crowd that they are, may not even be willing to try out 14 when some other Blizzard created carrot is dangling in their face.


I don’t actually mind that lol, if all WoW players play WoW2 instead of FF14 I’m totally fine with that;D And I really don’t think FF14 is any threat whatsoever to WoW, atm Aion seems to be on their neck, so I guess they are trying to fight of that MMO.
#70 Jun 16 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah... I think both companies try to gather a different userbase altogether. I don't think either game will be affected that much. It might be annoying for a while though, when lots of people join in expecting a PvP game and then QQ everywhere.
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#71 Jun 16 2009 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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thorazinekizzez wrote:
Dreanei deathknight walks up to a monster and begins swinging his 2 hand axe once every second.

He then uses blood strike. One extra swing is performed between normal swings with no additional effects.

The word BLOODSTRIKE 2000 damage floats slowly into the air!

He uses an icey touch. Points at the target as a snokeflake appears on the monster momentarily.

The word ICYTOUCH 2000 damage floats slowly into the air!

Particle effects != character animation.

Are you are describing the same game I've played?

Death Knights would swing roughly every 3-3.5 seconds because they use two handed weapons. Ability names don't float in the air. Damage doesn't float into the air, it pops up for a split second way that is mainly there to look cool, as opposed to being functional (It does manage to look pretty cool).

Blood Strike and Icy Touch both have a different animation. Blood Strike uses the melee special effect animation. Icy Touch uses the instant cast projectile animation. I'm not familiar what these animations are for a Draenai, but for a Female Tauren...

Autoattack melee = Swing the two handed weapon with one hand (Haha, cause Taurens are big <.<;)
Blood Strike = Two-handed overhand swing, red particle spherical blood like particle effects, with a 2D gash effect over the top.
Icy Touch = Flings hands forward into the "KameKameHa" position, with the palms together. Because it's a death knight, they will still have the weapon in their hands, and it will resemble placing the left hand on the flat of the blade (or handle in the case of an axe/mace). Very large swirling snowflury particle animation.

They do not use the same attack animations, and you are vastly under-describing the particle animations. I don't think the particle animations are that low, even if you set the graphics abysmally low (and of course if you have the graphics set low, the graphics will look bad.)

EDIT: I even youtube'd Draenai attack animations. They are some of the most dramatically absurd attack animations in the game, they have at least one animation where they flip a weapon out of their hand and catch them in midair before swinging them, with virtually every type of weapon.

They spin crossbows like a pistol *laughs* Terribly stupid, but I've never liked the Draenai anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5NQ9m9gOk

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 8:10pm by Karelyn
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#72 Jun 17 2009 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
thorazinekizzez wrote:
Dreanei deathknight walks up to a monster and begins swinging his 2 hand axe once every second.

He then uses blood strike. One extra swing is performed between normal swings with no additional effects.

The word BLOODSTRIKE 2000 damage floats slowly into the air!

He uses an icey touch. Points at the target as a snokeflake appears on the monster momentarily.

The word ICYTOUCH 2000 damage floats slowly into the air!

Particle effects != character animation.

Are you are describing the same game I've played?

Death Knights would swing roughly every 3-3.5 seconds because they use two handed weapons. Ability names don't float in the air. Damage doesn't float into the air, it pops up for a split second way that is mainly there to look cool, as opposed to being functional (It does manage to look pretty cool).

Blood Strike and Icy Touch both have a different animation. Blood Strike uses the melee special effect animation. Icy Touch uses the instant cast projectile animation. I'm not familiar what these animations are for a Draenai, but for a Female Tauren...


I use a pretty beefed up UI. For the most part all I see is giant numbers.

Most of the animations with my DK or Druid are unique particle effects over top of generic very simple and fast animations. unlike in FFXI they can be interrupted most of the time.

If you really want a perfect example on the difference in quality with the actual character animations sheath and unsheathe your weapon in either game. Huge difference in quality.

For the most part animation work in FFXI was far more impressive to me than anything I ever saw in WoW. If it wasn't for the fact that they like to cover these poor quality animations up with particle effects it would be depressing.

Seriously I suspect that they mocaped a lot of the FFXI animations.. I can do the WoW animations myself in my spare time. Even the ones in the video you just showed ensures my stance tbh. "Hey look I used the rotate widget to make the weapon spin between two key frames!"

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 1:59pm by thorazinekizzez
#73 Jun 17 2009 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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thorazinekizzez wrote:
I use a pretty beefed up UI.

Oh...

You are one of those people with a wall of addons in their default settings that makes the game impossible to see? I don't know how you enjoy the game like that.

I have large amount of addons. Over 500 and still growing. And yet, the screen residential space that is taken up is significantly smaller than the Default UI of FFXI or the Default UI of WoW.

Way I see it, if you aren't going to at least attempt to make the UI look attractive, and not block your view of the game world, why even bother using something besides the default UI?
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#74 Jun 17 2009 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
Way I see it, if you aren't going to at least attempt to make the UI look attractive, and not block your view of the game world, why even bother using something besides the default UI?


During raids you kind of need those bulky UI addons. My UI was pretty plain, most of it was hidden unless I scrolled over it with my mouse but that was when I wasn't raiding. When I raided I needed threat meters and damage meters and other such things that cluttered up the place.


thorazinekizzez wrote:
For the most part animation work in FFXI was far more impressive to me than anything I ever saw in WoW. If it wasn't for the fact that they like to cover these poor quality animations up with particle effects it would be depressing.


I wouldn't consider FFXI casting animations any more impressive than WoW animations...just longer...annoyingly long.
#75 Jun 17 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
During raids you kind of need those bulky UI addons. My UI was pretty plain, most of it was hidden unless I scrolled over it with my mouse but that was when I wasn't raiding. When I raided I needed threat meters and damage meters and other such things that cluttered up the place.

I raid in WoW too. You can still get all the critical information you need without it being cluttered.

Raid Frames = Grid
Threat Meters = You only need to see around 5 total bars
Damage Meters = You do not need to see these in combat. Hide them already, and set it under your threat meters (since you don't need to see threat meters out of combat).

It isn't that hard to contain in a space roughly 1.5 - 2 times the size of the default minimap, something that many people seem to think should take up well over half their screen... And in the process, obscure things like patches of fire that they probably should not be standing in -_-;

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 3:17pm by Karelyn
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#76 Jun 17 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:

thorazinekizzez wrote:
For the most part animation work in FFXI was far more impressive to me than anything I ever saw in WoW. If it wasn't for the fact that they like to cover these poor quality animations up with particle effects it would be depressing.


I wouldn't consider FFXI casting animations any more impressive than WoW animations...just longer...annoyingly long.


All of the animations in FFXI have a different problem. Mainly being that it will force you to sit and wait for them to complete no matter what.

Anyway with that said the only real way to take this particular topic beyond its current anecdotal state would be to compare the animations themselves individually.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 4:56pm by thorazinekizzez
#77 Jun 17 2009 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I wouldn't consider FFXI casting animations any more impressive than WoW animations...just longer...annoyingly long.


Wait.. Most of them are <1second, while summoning animation is around 1,5~.. what has WoW done to you!?

Those in particular aren't anything impressive though, you're right about that.
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#78 Jun 17 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
I wouldn't consider FFXI casting animations any more impressive than WoW animations...just longer...annoyingly long.


Wait.. Most of them are <1second, while summoning animation is around 1,5~.. what has WoW done to you!?

Those in particular aren't anything impressive though, you're right about that.


We live in a fast world...I hate waiting.
#79 Jun 17 2009 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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VawnLakshmi the Great wrote:
Karelyn wrote:

It's been a long time since I played FFXI, did characters have idle animations? I seem to recall that they did not. That when you stood almost perfectly still, the character stood perfectly rock solid still for hours at a time unmoving and unbreathing.

That was creepy.


It was also not true. Your characters clearly breath and do not stand their like a rock. They do not, however, start doing their own things such as stretching, tapping their foot or make funny faces. And I'm fine with that.
This. I'm almost positive the characters blink as well. But as for the idle animations, I find those annoying as ****. My character is standing idly, not getting confused as to why he's not moving, or tapping his foot impatiently. He's just standing because that's what I am making him do.
#80 Jun 17 2009 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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The Codyy of Doom wrote:
I'm almost positive the characters blink as well. But as for the idle animations, I find those annoying as sh*t. My character is standing idly, not getting confused as to why he's not moving, or tapping his foot impatiently. He's just standing because that's what I am making him do.

Real life humans have idle animations. You should complain to the developers who created this crappy planet.
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#81 Jun 17 2009 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Real life humans have idle animations.


Because that's what their master is telling them to do o_0..
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#82 Jun 17 2009 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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If you want to get technical you could say that Blizzards cinematics have some of the most amazing animation and art direction ever seen in the genre.

But in a very standard respect Square soft has been right along side them in this department throughout the years. Very different styles. Both dev houses have had amazingly talented people though.
#83 Jun 17 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
The Codyy of Doom wrote:
I'm almost positive the characters blink as well. But as for the idle animations, I find those annoying as sh*t. My character is standing idly, not getting confused as to why he's not moving, or tapping his foot impatiently. He's just standing because that's what I am making him do.

Real life humans have idle animations. You should complain to the developers who created this crappy planet.
Point in case: I don't do stupid things with my body because I have nothing better to do, or because I'm just currently not walking or engaged in battle. Smiley: thumbsup
#84 Jun 17 2009 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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The Codyy of Doom wrote:
Point in case: I don't do stupid things with my body because I have nothing better to do, or because I'm just currently not walking or engaged in battle. Smiley: thumbsup

I'm also sure that when you don't have anything to do, you also don't stand at attention for minutes or even hours at a time, just breathing and blinking.

Idle animations don't have to be cartoony. They should still exist. People shift their weight on their feet. People sigh, play with their hair or clothes. People sit down after a while. People look around at the scenery around them, or maybe they look at their feet.

Seriously? Have you never people-watched before? Go someplace where there are a lot of people who aren't socializing, and watch their body language for a few minutes.

The idea of a real life human being who doesn't move while they are idling, just waiting around bored, is absolutely absurd.

...

An idle animation doesn't have to be something cartoony, like a character pulling a guitar out from thin air behind their back, and start playing it. Yes, that was fine for Diddy Kong in Donkey Kong Country. Sure third wall breaking is fine for a cartoon game.

This is a realistic game, so let's get some realistic idle animations, and a wide variety of them. Even something as simple as having several different poses they stand in while standing around, that they shift between every 30-60 seconds. Cause the body gets very stiff if you don't move every once in a while.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 7:02pm by Karelyn
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#85 Jun 17 2009 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Idle animations {Yes please} just dont make them silly or trigger to fast one after another thats just annoying and feels alot less real.
#86 Jun 17 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
The Codyy of Doom wrote:
Point in case: I don't do stupid things with my body because I have nothing better to do, or because I'm just currently not walking or engaged in battle. Smiley: thumbsup

I'm also sure that when you don't have anything to do, you also don't stand at attention for minutes or even hours at a time, just breathing and blinking.

Idle animations don't have to be cartoony. They should still exist. People shift their weight on their feet. People sigh, play with their hair or clothes. People sit down after a while. People look around at the scenery around them, or maybe they look at their feet.

Seriously? Have you never people-watched before? Go someplace where there are a lot of people who aren't socializing, and watch their body language for a few minutes.

The idea of a real life human being who doesn't move while they are idling, just waiting around bored, is absolutely absurd.

...

An idle animation doesn't have to be something cartoony, like a character pulling a guitar out from thin air behind their back, and start playing it. Yes, that was fine for Diddy Kong in Donkey Kong Country. Sure third wall breaking is fine for a cartoon game.

This is a realistic game, so let's get some realistic idle animations, and a wide variety of them. Even something as simple as having several different poses they stand in while standing around, that they shift between every 30-60 seconds. Cause the body gets very stiff if you don't move every once in a while.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 7:02pm by Karelyn
I guess that's my main concern. If they are going to add idle animations, I want them to be smooth. All too often, the idle animations in games look so unnatural. The character's stance changes weirdly, they do their thing, and resume their stances. If the character shifts weight, I don't want him to shift weight for 10 seconds and then go back to that same old position for the next thirty seconds. If he shifts weight, have him stay shifted till the next idle animation gives him reason to move his body. I don't think I'm conveying my worry very well, but does anyone see what I mean?
#87 Jun 17 2009 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Point well taken, Cody. I agree, as well.
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#88 Jun 17 2009 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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HA
idle animation implementation.

How do you guys know the characters wont be physics driven software robots?

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 8:46pm by thorazinekizzez
#89 Jun 17 2009 at 4:21 PM Rating: Good
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Shrugs. I don't work for Square, so I don't know lol.
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#90 Jun 17 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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The Codyy of Doom wrote:
I guess that's my main concern. If they are going to add idle animations, I want them to be smooth. All too often, the idle animations in games look so unnatural. The character's stance changes weirdly, they do their thing, and resume their stances. If the character shifts weight, I don't want him to shift weight for 10 seconds and then go back to that same old position for the next thirty seconds. If he shifts weight, have him stay shifted till the next idle animation gives him reason to move his body. I don't think I'm conveying my worry very well, but does anyone see what I mean?

I believe you are mostly thinking of single player games. A lot of single player games treat idle animations as a type of "Easter Egg" that occurs after a minute or two of doing nothing.

*cough*CatwomanDoesAStripTeaseAfterFiveMinutes*cough*

Heck, in single player games, they are often entirely third wall breaking, with the character looking directly at the screen and tapping their watch, or something like that. I don't remember what game it was, but I'm almost positive there was one RPG I've played where the character would actually speak aloud to you and ask if you had died, or gone to the bathroom or something.

This is obviously (or at least I hope it's obvious) not what I'm talking about being added to an MMO.
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#91 Jun 17 2009 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
The Codyy of Doom wrote:
I guess that's my main concern. If they are going to add idle animations, I want them to be smooth. All too often, the idle animations in games look so unnatural. The character's stance changes weirdly, they do their thing, and resume their stances. If the character shifts weight, I don't want him to shift weight for 10 seconds and then go back to that same old position for the next thirty seconds. If he shifts weight, have him stay shifted till the next idle animation gives him reason to move his body. I don't think I'm conveying my worry very well, but does anyone see what I mean?

I believe you are mostly thinking of single player games. A lot of single player games treat idle animations as a type of "Easter Egg" that occurs after a minute or two of doing nothing.

*cough*CatwomanDoesAStripTeaseAfterFiveMinutes*cough*

Heck, in single player games, they are often entirely third wall breaking, with the character looking directly at the screen and tapping their watch, or something like that. I don't remember what game it was, but I'm almost positive there was one RPG I've played where the character would actually speak aloud to you and ask if you had died, or gone to the bathroom or something.

This is obviously (or at least I hope it's obvious) not what I'm talking about being added to an MMO.
Oh good God I hope not. But even some little things get to me. Smiley: lol I remember playing this game where the character shrugged every now and then... It bugged the crap out of me! I don't know why, but every time he shrugged, in my head I was like "What's so **** confusing?!"
#92 Jun 17 2009 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that was discworld??
Anyways alot of MMO's have lousy idle animations imo or they just happen to fast one after another... WoW,Aion(if ur in the desert and youre idle your char will pick up some sand and let it flow out of his hand which is cool however it happens way to fast like every 10 secs which is just stupid)
dont remember how it was in WAR only played that a short while.
Id choose no idle animations like in FFXI over stupid animations that happen way too often anyday.
I hope they put in some nice idle animations in FFXIV that dont trigger to fast one after another.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 8:44pm by BaasP
#93 Jun 18 2009 at 4:17 PM Rating: Default
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Personally...I hope that most of the players come from ffxi so they have a basic understanding and that the first month of ffxiv isn't like the dunes for a month straight.... Which will probably hapen... Also, most of the people I know in rl who play wow are potheads and/or realllly annoying.
#94 Jun 18 2009 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
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There'll probabley be a linkshell called "FFXIforlosers" and another called "WoWsucks".

Either that, or they'll all come together and be a happy family!
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#95 Jun 18 2009 at 9:55 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

I know you aren't, but you are asserting that a nontrivial number of people fit that stereotype, when they don't.

It's like saying "I don't want to live in a black neighborhood, I'd rather not get robbed." You can't defend that by saying "I'm not saying all blacks are thieves, but some are!" It's still racist.

People speak in WoW like they do in FFXI. There is no significant difference.


That's funny, because I play both. I have found WoW is much more likely to have immaturity in its playerbase than FFXI.

Perhaps that is just because of the availability of trade chat and the Barrens.

So let's hope there is no 'Barrens' in FFXIV.

And if you live in a neighborhood full of thieves, it isn't wrong to say you live in a neighborhood full of thieves, even if it might be politically incorrect to do so.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 2:01am by Shazaamemt
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#96 Jun 18 2009 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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To resurrect the idle animation banter: I'd love to see class specific idle animations. Magic-centric classes could sit down after 5 minutes AFK and start thumbing through a book. Melee classes could sharpen their weapon or something.
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#97 Jun 18 2009 at 11:51 PM Rating: Good
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I saw more than enough shout spam in Jeuno/Whitegate to refute the idea that there is an enormous difference between the WoW and FFXI playerbase. I would agree, however, that there is some difference. We're talking generalizations here. WoW is more mainstream and is catered to a predominantly young North American audience. FFXI was originally aimed at the JP market which, when I played FFXI, consisted mostly of people in their late 20s/early 30s. By and large, they came to see the NA community the way the FFXI NA community tends to see the WoW community.

How does that make you feel to read that? Is one of the first things that springs to mind along the lines of:

"Well, ***** the JP...I don't behave like that and if they want to judge me based on the behavior of a handful of idiots, they can keep their JP onry parties and their stuck up judgmental attitudes."

Sound familiar?

That's how a lot of WoW players feel when they get branded as part of a community based on the actions of a small handful of individuals. On any of the WoW realms I played on, trade chat idiocy was usually instigated by 2-3 people tops. Sadly, it would tend to trickle down and more people would get involved, but ultimately it was no different from what I saw in FFXI, just more constant. Fortunately, I couldn't ever really level up or grind rep or farm effectively in cities in WoW, so I spent most of my time happily oblivious to the 4chan crowd. As I recall, local chatter in the Dunes and the starter cities of FFXI tended to be a step below mature during peak hours, not unlike Barrens chat in WoW.

There's definitely a difference in demographic between the two games, but I think in fairness to my fellow future FFXIV players, I'm not going to be walking into the game with a mindset of one community trying to merge with another, or an adversarial situation, or "lolnoob u r play teh sukk game" nonsense. It's just people logging in to a play a game...a new game...and who played FFXI and/or WoW will be about as relevant to me in FFXIV as who played EQ in FFXI or WoW.
#98 Jun 19 2009 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
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Oh noes... the PS2 people will be getting FFXI today our friendly community is at an end (and it sorta did, when NA was PC only things were a bit more ummmm more mature). Oh noes... the XBOX kids are getting FFXI today, they're all gonna jump ship and come sink ours with their WoW-itutdes... (and they kinda did).

I'm sure the JP players thought the same thing when us NA PC players came on board.

Any way what I'm trying to get at here is there was panic, ranting, etc... about a group of people getting access to the game. What happened a few months after each release is the majority of the ******** didn't stick around more than a month or so. People with different MMO backgrounds merged and created new playstyles (for good or ill) and overall the community as a whole benefitted.

I look forward to WoW-ites coming to XIV, maybe a small percentage of them will find a challenge and a story worth sticking around for. Some will whine that it's too slow, or too hard, or whatever. I'm sure there will be random useless shouts as always, but for the most part I bet most of us have a really amazing experiance for the first few months while we all explore and learn. It's after that when we have the opportunities to start pigeonholing eachother into certain roles or playstyles that we'll see what kind of community we really have.

I'm looking forward to the entire experiance with a glass more than half full. ^.^
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#99 Jun 19 2009 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir wrote:

There's definitely a difference in demographic between the two games, but I think in fairness to my fellow future FFXIV players, I'm not going to be walking into the game with a mindset of one community trying to merge with another, or an adversarial situation, or "lolnoob u r play teh sukk game" nonsense. It's just people logging in to a play a game...a new game...and who played FFXI and/or WoW will be about as relevant to me in FFXIV as who played EQ in FFXI or WoW.


This is exactly my thought on it, thank you. More than anything I see all the people who might be playing the game simply as possible converts: Depending on how the dev team molds the game, we'll see how many people stick and learn to appreciate the world around them. That's my #1 concern. The community will be what it will be, no matter where people are from. Even if there's a large influx of people with terrible habits, if there's enough good people leading by example then I don't foresee a problem with it.
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#100 Jun 19 2009 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
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What most of you aren't understanding is what I think the largest clash is actually about, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. It's not about FFXI players hating WoW players.

It's that most FFXI players are worried about an influx of WoW-based, more casual players forcing SE to dumb down what could potentially be a fantastically complex MMO for the sake of snagging that whole juicy demographic.

And it's a valid concern.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 4:26am by Kirbster
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#101 Jun 19 2009 at 3:28 AM Rating: Excellent
I think FFXI was more tedious than hard. Hard is ok, but tedious is not something that should exist in the majority of a game, even an MMO. I did not come to WoW until Nax, because I was one of the few who refused to convert. But, I got sick of FFXI and my friends were playing WoW. To be honest, I could not tell the people who played FFXI from WoW at all, unless they told me, or made a reference. Trade chat was trade chat, among other things.

I do feel like the FFXI commnity is more close knit. If you're dubbed a bad player early, you're going to have a long road ahead of you. But in WoW you can make up for these shortcommings on your own time (since in WoW it let you, in FFXI you actually HAD to party with people). To be fair, I played both games for around the same amount of time, but I definatly think I had a closer connection to the FFXI community opposed to the WoW one.

I'd like FFXIV to have a close community, but not be tedious. The problem is the close community was kind of a by product of a flawed system in FFXI, and if they fix the system the community might become kind of shallow. I'm not saying WoWs community was shallow, but it was really much easier to get lost in. However, I really doubt anyones preference in games will effect the community much at all.

But I'm not sure that making FFXI "easier" is a bad thing. In all honestly like I said FFXI made somethings needlessly difficult to acomplish (like bad drop rates for QUEST items) and lack of an alternate leveling/playing option. Honestly in WoW Nax was probably the pinacle of difficulty, most players never even saw it before BC came out.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 7:33am by CalArvian
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