Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

ZoningFollow

#1 Jun 16 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
****
5,599 posts
I was perusing the Jumping thread when someone mentioned Zones.

Am I the only one that doesn't like this idea? I don't know how it's done in FFXI, but I would hate the way they handled areas in FFX and XII to be implemented in an MMO. This is one of the things I think Blizzard got right. Instead of walking to an invisible border, the screen suddenly going dark, then your character is magically in a new area, I would much prefer the more freeform method Blizzard has implemented in Azeroth's overworld, with seamless (read as: loading screen-less) transition.

Has Squeeix released/hinted/leaked anything that might lead us to believe they are leaning towards one method or the other? I really don't know.

Oh boy, I can see the flames already.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 12:47am by IDrownFish
____________________________
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I have a racist ****.

Steam: TuxedoFish
battle.net: Fishy #1649
GW2: Fishy.4129
#2 Jun 16 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
**
401 posts
I'm pretty sure you can chalk zoning up to the old PS2 limitations line that SE threw around a lot. Given the platforms FFXIV will be released on I don't think we'll be seeing zones in XIV. However with that said keeping the areas large and making them dangerous is something I hope that carries over from XI.
____________________________
FFXI: Server Ifrit
Licksthekitty - 68THF/41WHM/37NIN/30BLM/20COR Mithra Retired

WoW: Realm Darkspear
Claybosmash - 80 Orc Warrior Retired
Ipwnrice - 70 Undead Rogue Retired


#3 Jun 16 2009 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,089 posts
Zones please, unless the technology has gone miles ahead of where Vanguard was.

Vanguard tried the no zones thing and it was a horrible mess. Instead of zoning your character would just freeze on screen for 3-4 seconds while you did an imaginary zone.

Keep zones, but make them a lot larger than in XI. ex) Valkurm, highlands, la theine are all a zone now.
#4 Jun 16 2009 at 9:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
26 posts
I'm for zoning, personally. I'm no expert, but my common sense (if you can call it that) tells me that if there are zones, more time can be focused on the area itself instead of the areas in between zones.

I'd be more impressed by seeing the beauty inside of a zone than spend even more time going in between colorless mountains to get to the next.
____________________________
[ffxisig]197282[/ffxisig]
#5 Jun 16 2009 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
158 posts
i've said this in a similar thread already so i'll paraphrase it for you

there may be exceptions to this NOWDAYS but i don't know for certain... technology could very well have come far enough to make seamless worlds and still look good... but at least for ffxi's time this is the rule they went by

Separated Zones = Things Load at beginning (entering) = if u have a loading time anyway utilize it = put better graphics that load at beginning per zone! = but also loses a sense of immersion through load times but increase through graphics

seamless zones = hardware has to continuously load information = less resources elsewhere = must lower graphics to save resources = increase in immersion through seamless zones but decrease in immersion through lesser graphics

so basically

Zoning Pros: higher graphics
zoning cons: loss of immersion and pauses in game

Seamless pros: keep immersion
seamless cons: must lower graphics

when you look at wow vs xi its the same... but wow pulled off a seamless world by putting a lot of style into their environments

style = visual appeal
graphics = visual appeal
style =/= graphics

two different roads... i think both are quite viable... in my own opinion though, if zoning is going to make a better graphics, then that is what i prefer, but thats just me
____________________________
Asurean Taru

75 WHM
75 BRD
51 SMN
43 DRK
38 SAM
37 BLM
29 WAR
#6 Jun 16 2009 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Quote:
Zones please, unless the technology has gone miles ahead of where Vanguard was.

Vanguard tried the no zones thing and it was a horrible mess. Instead of zoning your character would just freeze on screen for 3-4 seconds while you did an imaginary zone.

I agree with this 100%. I understand that zoning can break immersion, but so does crashing to desktop, chugging frame rates, and losing buffs when crossing chunks. Besides, a game with zones can load the data for the zone once upon entry and tax your system resources less.
#7 Jun 16 2009 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,084 posts
I'm for zones, but larger, region-sized zones.


Ironically, seamless MMOs like WoW seem smaller, in terms of the game world.

Edited, Jun 16th 2009 10:58pm by Kirbster
____________________________
What would happen if I hired two private investigators to follow each other?
#8 Jun 17 2009 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
I would rather there not be zones, but as long as the areas are large enough, I wouldn't mind them.
#9 Jun 17 2009 at 2:24 AM Rating: Good
***
3,416 posts
I like zones more than seamless world, but base my opinion only on personal preferences.
____________________________
SE:
Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#10 Jun 17 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
27 posts
zoning saved my life many times, i'm for zones, but as mentioned before, they should be much bigger
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI: Ragnarok server - Spikie - WAR75|DNC75|NIN37|SAM32|BRD24||ZM14|CoP4.2|ToAU22|Rank 10|WoTG 2-3
Final Fantasy XIV: Coming Soon...
#11 Jun 17 2009 at 3:10 AM Rating: Decent
****
5,159 posts
From what I can see, no zoning would be one mark of a "next-gen" MMO, which I'm sure they're working towards. So I'm pretty optimistic that it'll be one big seamless world.
____________________________
Corsair75
Pandemonium Asura...

ffxiah
#12 Jun 17 2009 at 4:10 AM Rating: Good
*
230 posts
I'm all for a no-zone world with no between-zone spacing. Although WoW was seamless, there was a lot of empty spots that were just 'transition areas' from one zone to the next. On foot (****, even on a mount), the world was TOO big. There was too much empty real estate.

I'd love to see *HUGE* "zones" (like the combined zones talked about above) with seamless transitions to the next *HUGE* zone. If you can't do it seamlessly, that's fine. I'd rather add 4 seconds to my travels when crossing huge, content-PACKED areas, than add 1-2 minutes just to make it seamless.
____________________________
Future FFXIV Player
Anguish - 80 Death Knight (Retired)
Vor - 60 Warlock (pre-BC) (Retired)
#13 Jun 17 2009 at 4:20 AM Rating: Good
45 posts
I agree with Bocomi, I'd rather have zoning and better graphics really.
#14 Jun 17 2009 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
6 posts
Zoning was great for agro.... no zones would that lead to a lot of death? lol...
____________________________
----
Titan: Retired Rdm, Blm
Taru ftw.

#15 Jun 17 2009 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
777 posts
mpmaley wrote:
Zones please, unless the technology has gone miles ahead of where Vanguard was.

I don't know about Vanguard...

But seriously, the technology is there, and a lot better than that.

With current technology (actually, 5 year old technology), you can just walk and the scenery changes as you go. No pausing, no loading, no nothing. Probably around a 50-100 yard stretch where the landscape and scenery transitions between the two zones, to make the illusion that there is not a hard line.

It's not that hard to store zone data in a buffer.
____________________________
KUMQUATS
#16 Jun 17 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
777 posts
Kirbster wrote:
Ironically, seamless MMOs like WoW seem smaller, in terms of the game world.

WoW's world is quite big. It doesn't feel big due to the obscene quantity of teleporters, mounts, flying paths, etc.

IIRC, it's probably something like 3 hours to walk on foot from one side of the world to the other.
____________________________
KUMQUATS
#17 Jun 17 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
Double post, don't mind this one.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 10:35am by GraelCanidae
____________________________
The planet’s talking about a revolution,
The natural laws ain’t got no constitution,
They’ve got a right to live their own life,
But we keep paving over paradise. ~Jason Mraz - Only Human~
#18 Jun 17 2009 at 6:34 AM Rating: Decent
5 posts
So long as the zones are large & relatively gorgeous I wouldn't mind the zones. That said if they can make a seamless world with sweet graphics I'm all for that first.
____________________________
The planet’s talking about a revolution,
The natural laws ain’t got no constitution,
They’ve got a right to live their own life,
But we keep paving over paradise. ~Jason Mraz - Only Human~
#19 Jun 17 2009 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
70 posts
zones have saved out lives many a times in ff11.
when things turned south we zoned it. whats going to take its place?
if u can't outrun the monster then ur pretty much dead unless theres a specific range at which they stop.

imagine running thru yhoa jungle to kazham on foot w/o sneak/invis and w/o zones....... can u say goblin riot.

im all for zones. make they really really really short (almost instant), and also find a way to fix the chat so that when u zone u don't miss chat msgs.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 11:11am by Leyego
#20 Jun 17 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
*
242 posts
Quote:
zones have saved out lives many a times in ff11.
when things turned south we zoned it. whats going to take its place?
if u can't outrun the monster then ur pretty much dead unless theres a specific range at which they stop.

imagine running thru yhoa jungle to kazham on foot w/o sneak/invis and w/o zones....... can u say goblin riot.

im all for zones. make they really really really short (almost instant), and also find a way to fix the chat so that when u zone u don't miss chat msgs.


LoL. I had this very same argument in another thread. I couldn't agree with you more.
____________________________
Character name: Undecided
Race: Lalafell
Nation: Gridania
Armoury: Desciple of Magic/Land/Hand
PS3 user
PSN: TheJollyJokers
XBOX Live: TheJollyJokers
#21 Jun 17 2009 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
****
5,684 posts
/shout = entire world. go.

nah, they'd probably put a distance limit on it, but still an amusing idea.
____________________________
Almalieque wrote:
I admit that I was wrong

God bless Lili St. Cyr
#22 Jun 17 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
180 posts
Ralsu wrote:
Quote:
Zones please, unless the technology has gone miles ahead of where Vanguard was.

Vanguard tried the no zones thing and it was a horrible mess. Instead of zoning your character would just freeze on screen for 3-4 seconds while you did an imaginary zone.

I agree with this 100%. I understand that zoning can break immersion, but so does crashing to desktop, chugging frame rates, and losing buffs when crossing chunks. Besides, a game with zones can load the data for the zone once upon entry and tax your system resources less.


Heh, this reminded me of people shouting "The server blew chunks again" whenever a Vanguard 'chunk' would go down.

I liked the what they were trying to accomplish in that game but without a seamless transition it kind of fails. Especially when they design them as squares in a grid and you find yourself running through the corner of one and chunking multiple times in succession.

I prefer zones because it really allows to designers to focus more on each area and make them unique.
#23 Jun 17 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
***
1,159 posts
I honestly don't care if they have zones that you need to load before entering or not. It is nice to have a system like WoW where it is mostly seamless but whenever I zone in FFXI I imagine there is some sort of transitional terrain that my character is going through, blending what I saw in the last zone into what I'll see in the next zone. Just as long as when I'm being followed by a mob I wont die because my character is trying to zone...that was incredibly annoying.

I would appreciate it if you didn't have to zone before you enter and while you're in a city...that never did sit right with me.
#24 Jun 17 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
*
66 posts
How about zones without the zoning?

Defined areas are great, it's nice having monsters confined to them and whatnot, but with today's technology they should be able to figure out how to take the zoning out of the zones. A small scenery transition area and a "now entering ___" notice is all that I'd want to see :)

edit: also, of course, the music would be different in each zone too

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 2:44pm by Morsmorde
#25 Jun 17 2009 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
777 posts
Morsmorde wrote:
How about zones without the zoning?

Defined areas are great, it's nice having monsters confined to them and whatnot, but with today's technology they should be able to figure out how to take the zoning out of the zones. A small scenery transition area and a "now entering ___" notice is all that I'd want to see :)

Pretty much.

I get pretty ****** off at any game that has a loading screen in this day and age. If you have a loading screen in your game, there better be a **** good reason why it is there.

In an MMO? I cannot think of a **** good reason other than changing to a different physical server.
____________________________
KUMQUATS
#26 Jun 17 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
*
108 posts
If FFXIV ends up with discrete zones, I hope that S-E changes their server architecture to provide some continuity in chat channels, so we aren't in danger of missing party and linkshell messages like we are today. Sheeshies, what an annoyance, having to announce zoning so that people will pause the conversation until I've reloaded in the new zone--or, alternatively, trying to time zoning to hit lulls in the conversation, hoping I won't miss anything. :(
#27 Jun 17 2009 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
349 posts
I dont want to see zones. WoW and Lotro are both open world games. Lotro is sorta zoned in that when you change zones the screen gets a little blurry during the transtion but you can still see the upcoming zone and what not so it still feels like an open world. Nowadays most mobs will stop chasing you and run back to their spawn point after awhile so zoniung to avoid trains isnt needed
____________________________
That was no hemroid doctor. That was an alien hoobajoob
#28 Jun 17 2009 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Mistress of Gardening
Avatar
*****
14,661 posts
Although I'm completely used to zones, when I played WoW, being able to just run to a new "zone" with a message telling me I'd entered a different area was one of the few things I actually liked about WoW. I just need some kind of way to escape stuff, cause I'm a little wussy girl and I take off for a zone line whenever I get smacked by something big.
#29 Jun 17 2009 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
29 posts
I'm in agreement with a lot of people here. I would like to see larger zones, but not give them up altogether. FFXIV is going to be a growing entity. In the years that follow its release, its going to have tons of content added. I personally believe that it will be easier on that process by keeping some sense of a zone. It will probably reduce lag in the initial stage of its release as well. It is supposed to be "competitive" with cutting edge technology when it first comes out. Add tons of players and that could potentially cause serious complications.
#30 Jun 17 2009 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,112 posts
All this talk of Zones = Better graphics is absolute toss. Your computer doesnt pre-cache an entire map, not even on FFXI. If it did it would be a pointless and ****-poor way of doing things-- you're wasting HUGE amounts of memory in storing information you might not (and probably will not) need. You do not need to access information on the area other than that which you can see (and also some pre caching of nearby area).

We're talking next-gen game here. Its not being released on a console who's hardware was out of date almost the same year it was released. Modern computers and the PS3 are powerful bits of kit, and dragging info on and off the hard disk into RAM is no problem.

We can have no zone lines AND good graphics.
____________________________
To endanger the soul endangers all,
when the soul is endangered it must become a Warrior.
#31 Jun 17 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
*
50 posts
Im pro-zones...easier to measure distance...(i.e. Bob-how far to windy? Joe-Eh, about three zones.)
plus the agro thing. lol
____________________________
FFXI
Server-Ifrit
Name-Maddoxs
LS-Connectionlost2
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee160/imsohoodbitch/Taruagainstpunting.jpg
^Taru's against punting Protest -2006^
#32 Jun 17 2009 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
777 posts
iMOB wrote:
Im pro-zones...easier to measure distance...(i.e. Bob-how far to windy? Joe-Eh, about three zones.)

...
...

And you don't think you can do that without loading screens?

Dear god, have some of ya'll never played any videogame or MMO other than FFXI?
____________________________
KUMQUATS
#33 Jun 17 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
I hope its a seamless world, personally. I like being able to see what is ahead of me. When we use zones to escape a situation, I have to say it seems a bit cheaty, and an abuse of the way zones work (Even if I have done it myself, I can't say I approve of the ability to do it).

I'd much rather see a seamless world with methods of escaping monster fights legitimately. This could be done numerous ways: Spells/items that cover your trail, safety areas like outposts with guards you can run to, or maybe even just having monsters that decide to stop following you when you run far enough away for example. Even the ability to say... swim or jump could perhaps aid you in avoiding a monster that can't climb or doesn't like water.

We honestly need to be weaned somehow of our zone dependency, and be given options to get away from unwanted aggro.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 6:03pm by Kerozene
#34 Jun 17 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
*
50 posts
lol...don't bite...Just saying its easier...didn't know how to do it in Wow....other than walking time. instead of critiquing me pls explain the measure of distance I could use that would be equal to "A zone away"?
____________________________
FFXI
Server-Ifrit
Name-Maddoxs
LS-Connectionlost2
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee160/imsohoodbitch/Taruagainstpunting.jpg
^Taru's against punting Protest -2006^
#35 Jun 17 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
******
22,699 posts
Quote:
If you have a loading screen in your game, there better be a **** good reason why it is there.


There are plenty of current games that still have loading screens. Resident Evil 5 and MGS4 for example.

Every game still has zone lines, the difference is where they're placed. WoWs for example is between continents and etc. In ffxi it was in between each area. What I'm hoping for in ffxiv is seamless in between areas with zones in between different regions.
____________________________
Dear people I don't like: 凸(●´―`●)凸
#36 Jun 17 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
*
242 posts
Quote:
Quote:
If you have a loading screen in your game, there better be a **** good reason why it is there.


There are plenty of current games that still have loading screens. Resident Evil 5 and MGS4 for example.

Every game still has zone lines, the difference is where they're placed. WoWs for example is between continents and etc. In ffxi it was in between each area. What I'm hoping for in ffxiv is seamless in between areas with zones in between different regions.


Yeh. Have you ever tried playing Lost Odyssey on XBOX 360? I deemed it unplayable because of all the loading screens. There are even loading screens in between cutscenes. The graphics aren't even all that good, either. I blame laziness on part of the developers. If there is zoning, it shouldn't take longer than one second to load up the new area. I shouldn't be able to take a smoke break in between areas.
____________________________
Character name: Undecided
Race: Lalafell
Nation: Gridania
Armoury: Desciple of Magic/Land/Hand
PS3 user
PSN: TheJollyJokers
XBOX Live: TheJollyJokers
#37 Jun 17 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
777 posts
The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
If you have a loading screen in your game, there better be a **** good reason why it is there.
Every game still has zone lines, the difference is where they're placed. WoWs for example is between continents and etc. In ffxi it was in between each area. What I'm hoping for in ffxiv is seamless in between areas with zones in between different regions.

The only reason the loading screens are justified in WoW, is because different continents are literally different physical servers.

Every "Server" (or as Blizzard calls them "realms") in WoW, is made up of multiple different servers. Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, The Outlands + Draenai Starting Zone + Blood Elf Starting Zone, Northrend, Instances, and the Raid Instance Server. (Not to mention non-realm specific servers like battleground servers, arena servers, character servers, and the login servers)

In other words, every "server" in WoW, is actually a network of six different servers. So when you see loading screens, it is because you are moving to a different physical server.

Hince why I said "A **** good reason." I can accept that a single server isn't capable supporting the entire world. But it should at least be capable of supporting a significant quantity of zones without the need for loading screens.

And ESPECIALLY it should be capable of supporting an entire city... Though I wouldn't mind if cities were on a dedicated server that you had to zone into. *******, the lag in major cities is a ***** in most MMOs. If that would help the lag, that'd be cool with me.

Edited, Jun 17th 2009 6:49pm by Karelyn
____________________________
KUMQUATS
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)