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#1 Jun 18 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Final Fantasy XI was famous for the wide areas and how long it would take to go from S.Gustaberg to go to Valkrum Dunes. Some people would put their charcters on Auto-Walk and would eventually run into a Quadav or a Goblin and die. They would have to revive back in Bastok and try again. This experience haunted me and my friends but I was the first to get my chocobo, and my airship while my friends trailed behind. I went and got all of the Tele-Shards and while they caught up. They moaned and groaned and eventually quit the game while I countinued for a while. After E3 I interrupted their WOW convo. and told them about FFXIV and they went ape on me about how it will probaly take an hour to get out of the first zone. Do you think that people will move faster or will they start off with Chocos or what to travel the new BIGGER world called Eorzea.
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#2 Jun 18 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure SE has considered this problem and done something to fix it. That was one of my huge complaints too. I want areas crammed with content. WoW is guilty of this too (barrens, azshara, etc.).
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#3 Jun 18 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I never minded the big zones. I kinda liked 'em.

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#4 Jun 18 2009 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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I actually enjoyed the traveling aspect of the game. Hard at first, then eventually, extremely easy to get around. It's a good way to go about things.
You learned a lot about avoiding agro, and that's an essential skill.


Meanwhile WoW is giving away mounts at level 20 now, which kind of ****** me off.
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#5 Jun 18 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
WoW is guilty of this too (barrens, azshara, etc.).


Azshara yes... but the barrens? Are you completely drunk? Name one thing in the barrens NOT quest related directly... they build worlds so that everything is used, and it was.

WoW also had flight paths going everywhere, explore it once and you will never long walk it again. In FFXI there were insane huge worlds(which i enjoyed, more realistic) with a few tele points scattered here and there.

Personally i enjoy huge worlds, finding wolves right next to birds is just not realistic... wow does this poorly. You can clearly see different types of animals grouped together very close to each other... just doesn't happen like that. With FFXI they were seperate in different parts of the world and actually made sense... like ram on the mountain/hill in front of bastok.
#6 Jun 18 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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Barrens might have a lot of 'quests,' but it's still the dullest area I have ever walked across in any MMO. At least in XI's largest zones (la theine, highlands) they managed to stay visually interesting. (Meriphataud being somewhat of an exception...)
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#7 Jun 18 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
Hard at first, then eventually, extremely easy to get around. It's a good way to go about things.
You learned a lot about avoiding agro, and that's an essential skill.


This is true. I always thought that playing a "hard" game like FFXI meant making a more measurable commitment to playing videogames altogether. It meant that you were in it all the way and willing to take the hard knocks, while knowing it would pay off in the end. That's why the game is tough. And, yes, you do learn a lot about the game (as well as just how tough it can be) sneaking and invising (which always wore at just the right time) across Konschtat at level 10 - trying to make it to the Dunes. For those who couldn't stomach this type of "punishment," I commend them for being honest to themselves and everyone else by bowing out and letting those who had made the commitment have at it.
#8 Jun 18 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Default
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An idea could be chaining the Quest and Missions given. Instead of having to travel to the Dem crystal to talk to it and to go back to the Bastok to go to San Doria maybe Cid should show up at the Dem and give you quest there.

Also the outpost were a good idea that they should continue and maybe have more nomad Moogles around the area so people can change to their higher levels.
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#9 Jun 18 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Kharmageddon wrote:
WoW is guilty of this too (barrens, azshara, etc.).

All of Northrend <.<;

Dear god those zones are stupid large if you don't have an epic flying mount.
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#10 Jun 18 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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I loved the huge zones, made the world feel Big, and I loved that I had to walk so much at first... Because It makes me feel accomplished knowing I can get from windy to whitegate to jeuno in less that 5 mins now^^. The time it took to get from A to B was a big part of ffxi, and as frustrating as it was I enjoyed it. But if SE is true to its word and ffxiv is going to be geared more towards the "casual player" im sure we will see some changes when it comes to travel.
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#11 Jun 18 2009 at 12:26 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Also the outpost were a good idea that they should continue and maybe have more nomad Moogles around the area so people can change to their higher levels.


Agreed i forgot about those. However they were still only so useful. Once again they charged you a fair amount(driving up the gil sales.. once again). To have the convenience of not spending 20-30 minutes running it makes sense but for anyone not running a goldmine it was expensive to travel.

However you had to do a supplies quest to that outpost to get access to it which did require some doing if you didn't know about them. On top of that if your nation didn't control that outpost which for some servers were months if not years you could never get it. Then! on top of that if you tele there and need to get back home you cannot because your nation once again doesn't control it.

I just found it ridiculous that they made nation restrictions on it because on Asura for one Sandy/Windy usually controlled most of the outposts most of the time simply because they had more people choose that as a home city. I love bastok myself but being forced to either change nations(which means i have to spend hours doing the missions again) or to suck it up... wasn't very forgiving.
#12 Jun 18 2009 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Sandy/Windy usually controlled most of the outposts most of the time simply because they had more people choose that as a home city.


I had this happen to me once. This produces a vicious circle of traveling being in Dunes and having your Signet run out you have two choices. 1) Having to run back to N.Gustaberg because you can't help Bastok or you nation and that wastes your time and your party members. 2)Continuing on fighting and go to Jueno with no crystals which means no money which means your gonna have find a way to earn the chocobo money.
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#13 Jun 18 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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After E3 I interrupted their WOW convo. and told them about FFXIV and they went ape on me about how it will probaly take an hour to get out of the first zone.


It probably seemed huge to them before they quit. Sounds like they didn't play the game enough to appreciate the scope of the game world.

I used to love how the game gave you an actual sense of travel, by the sheer size of the world. Also we all remember how we felt an honest sense of relief and achievement when we got our chocos and our airship pass.
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#14 Jun 18 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I convinced them to come play FFXI for a while cuz all i did was talk about it all of the time. When they came they had a difficult time of leveling up because they were little WOW punks who were so used to being spoon feed all of their XP through quests where you have to steal berries from a mystical forest after getting the horsey drunk (Not a real quest...I think.) Everytime I play any game I take my time to look around and not be planning for end game when I have barely started the game like they did.
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#15 Jun 18 2009 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Meanwhile WoW is giving away mounts at level 20 now, which kind of ****** me off.


Amen to that.

I kinda liked the fact the zones were big, yeah I ******* as much as anyone else about travel times but I dunno it was kinda nice to have a, well realistic sized world to explore. I feel that WoW is too small.
#16 Jun 18 2009 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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I don't see why. WoW is perfectly big, and it'd take you a lot longer to run from the top of one of the continents in WoW to the bottom than it would to run from Windy to Bastok. And there are 4 continents now. You sill had to walk everywhere the first time you went. Flightpaths just made it easier to travel betwen the places you'd already been.
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#17 Jun 18 2009 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe a Teleport crystal in cities that lets you teleport anywhere in the world but the further the place is the more you have to pay.
#18 Jun 18 2009 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Barrens sucks to get around. It's not about how many quests or where they are; travel time takes forever. There's a lot of... well, BARREN areas. Northrend is also extremely hard to get around (unless you take flight paths, which are boring) without an epic flying mount. I don't really like that.
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#19 Jun 18 2009 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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i dont care about big zones so long as

1)there is something there. in XI the zones were big...and empty. all that space going to waste that couldve been NPC's with quests, or more mobs to fight

2)the zones look good. take gustaburg for example. its not only big, its not only empty, but its freakin ugly too...a huge wasteland. now obv a wasteland place isnt bad if they do it right but not only did they fail, imo, with gustaburg and many other areas, but they forced bastokians to start there...lamesauce. its especially not fair seeing as sandorians got a forest and windurstians got a big meadow. and even then there was just empty space there


if they can make USE of the huge area and make them look good <again a wasteland can look cool if you do it right> then i dont care if it takes an hour to get from one zone to another so long as im happy and content in the zone that im in.





as for travel, im hoping for the following

a)chocobo riding doesnt require a quest or a level...if you have the money you should be able to ride anytime. if there is a quest then, again, it shouldnt have a level restriction and it shouldnt be so time consuming

b)i was also thinking that there was a chocobo breeding type thing. that way you can have your own personal chocobos...alot of them if you wanted. and you could even sell them to other players. to start you need a quest and once you fufill the quest it becomes like a craft and you can skill up and stuff to get better chocobos...ide honestly like to see the return of special chocobos like n FFVII. yellow chocobos are basic, green can climb mountains, blue can go over water, black can glide, and gold can do all of that...but the chances of getting a special chocobo are slim...they would be like super high quality crafts and the gold one is especially hard because you have to breed a bunch of the other special ones together just to have a CHANCE. maybe it wouldnt work exactly like this but i think chocobo breeding should be included in some way

c)airship should still require a quest and/or a level restriction. why? because in most/all FF games the airship doesnt come until mid/late game. obv only high levele having access wouldnt be fair so it shpould still be reletively low leveled, but the point is still there. and perhaps at a really high level you can do a quest to actually get your own airship! it would require a very high level <possibly max level> and you have to do a quest AND pay a lot of gil, but once you get your own personal airship you could make money off it by giving rides, and only party members can get on so theres no sneaky stowaway lol. that would also give the option of airship riding to lower level people...if they could afford whatever it is your charging ~_^


if they still have teleporting then it can stay relatively the same, nothing ide really change about that...except maybe lower the level of such spells. i mean many of those crystals are in dangerous places, imo if your able to get to such a place then your worthy of teleporting XD...of course i can also see reasons for it being a mid level spell, so may as well keep it the same
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#20 Jun 18 2009 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Touuuken wrote:
Final Fantasy XI was famous for the wide areas and how long it would take to go from S.Gustaberg to go to Valkrum Dunes. Some people would put their charcters on Auto-Walk and would eventually run into a Quadav or a Goblin and die. They would have to revive back in Bastok and try again. This experience haunted me and my friends but I was the first to get my chocobo, and my airship while my friends trailed behind. I went and got all of the Tele-Shards and while they caught up. They moaned and groaned and eventually quit the game while I countinued for a while. After E3 I interrupted their WOW convo. and told them about FFXIV and they went ape on me about how it will probaly take an hour to get out of the first zone. Do you think that people will move faster or will they start off with Chocos or what to travel the new BIGGER world called Eorzea.


I'm pretty sure it will take just as long.
But, to tell you the truth, I sort of liked walking that long. It was more realistic, and gave me time to do homework and play at the same time :-)
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#21 Jun 20 2009 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I think the jobs themselves should have a method of increasing their traveling speed in some way.. The ability to warp to different points in the area is one idea, the ability to make portals and transport alot of people at one time to a lot more areas is another. The abilty to jump ahead, or flash step around, and also flee? lol
#22 Jun 20 2009 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I see what you mean; but as said by a few people above, I heavily enjoyed the long walks and distance involved between zones. I've always been a huge fan of expansive worlds so the more land to cover, the better; plus I second the idea that if we can quests for "flee" (yar, I had my fair share of grumbling while watching a THF dash past me) or some sort of "movement enhancements", that would be great.
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#23 Jun 20 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Default
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Ok, you take your time, we'll go there quickly. not everyone enjoys running huge distances for the sake of running huge distances. It's a waste of time that could be better spent doing something fun, like fighting or crafting or questing or, well, anything else.
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#24 Jun 20 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Yup; I absolutely intend to take my time enjoying this new world, Raymund. Granted, when doing missions and quests, you want to be able to move around VERY quickly and efficiently, have gear for speed movement, and teleportation points that are conviently close to your destination. All the mounts, transportation and yaya yada needed for "speed travelling" should be at your fingertips, yes?. But me personally, I want a huge, massive, expansive world no less and I'd like the option to take my time with it.

Why?

Because I happen to be one of those players that sometimes likes to casually explore solo at my OWN pace. Mind if I ask you a simple question? When last did you climb your personal chocobo (if you have one) and just rode through every zone you could get to? Honestly speaking? And when last did you just try to go back to a place like Bostaunieux Oubliette or Purgonorgo Isle? Or trek leisurely through the Altepa desert with a few friends past the Altepa Gate? Have you noticed that very very many of we ffxi players hardly ever return to almost a good one-third of Vanadiel after we have finished a certain "quest" or obtained a certain item?

I'm just saying I don't wanna make that mistake with ffxiv and I'd like the option to travel at a leisurely "slow" pace.
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#25 Jun 20 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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It's kind of sad but back when I used to play Final Fantasy XI, my Dad, sister and sister's boyfriend would call it "the running game," because all they ever saw me do was run. "Oh, there's fighting in the running game?!"

Yeah they had a lot of fun with that.

But I enjoy the running, although it can be tedious at times, but it created for some fun experiences. The first time around should always be slow and scenic. But after that players should be given a choice, such as the Crags. There just needs to be more of them closer to useful locations. Better and faster airship systems in more locations. Easier to access chocobos that can go even faster than in FFXI (chocobo breeding speedy chocobos :D).
#26 Jun 20 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I enjoyed the traveling because if forced the player to hone his/her skills such as aggro avoiding ect. But I want FFXIV to find a way to do this without us having to wait rediculous amounts of time do get anywhere. Chocobos, faeries, and even airships took way to **** long.
#27 Jun 20 2009 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm pretty much the same, I liked the feeling of travel, of getting to know the world, and being on a journey, learning how to navigate safely, while enjoying the sights and sounds, and discovering new places. I don't want to lose that.

But maybe just for certain special events, they could allow you to get there faster, like if you have a party waiting for you or something. Kind of like how in FFXI's Assault, if you have mission orders, you can teleport to the mission site. Outpost warps, easier to get chocobo (the hours long wait to get a license was ridiculous), airships that either don't have wait times or have multiple flights per destination instead of just one flight, so you only wait 2-3 mins for a flight, gate crystals for teleporting, anything to speed up major tasks while still allowing time to enjoy things.
#28 Jun 20 2009 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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I think the only issue I have with how big the zones are will be fixed by allowing a little more soloing. Of course, the other issue is zones an hour+ away from the nearest outpost (which only really matters if your city has the outpost at the time). I remember so many times getting fed up with FFXI because it took nearly an hour to reach a party just to have them wipe on stupid mobs like 3 times and break (and if you say you don't know what I'm talking about, you're either lying or have the dark lord's own luck). Then my only option is to either use a warp scroll (if you had remembered to get one), spend another hour+ running back to town, or eat an xp penalty to suicide back.

I'm not asking they lose the giant zones. I love the giant zones. I just want travel to be a bit better. Honestly, the best solution to me would be to add some manner of warp spell that warps the caster to where the party is or allows the party to summon a party member. Yeah, some people may cry "but WoW did that!" Well, I'm sorry, but it seems like a good idea to me. Nothing was more frustrating then getting through 3 or more of the giant zones to meet a party and watch them break before you even get to them or after 5 minutes of you being there. I probably would have never left FFXI if it was just easier getting to parties!
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#29 Jun 20 2009 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Nothing worse then running down the airship dock and right when your 2 feet away the ship leaves. Then wait 15 minutes, get tied up on crafting or fishing and miss the ship... yet again. Once you are on the ship... yep wait again! Once in Jueno be the first to exit port and run to another airship and hope you don't have to wait... sigh.

Traveling time needs to shorten between extremely long distances and unless there are regular mobs that attack said airship then we don't need to waste 10 minutes on being utterly bored. Wouldn't it be cool if you had a bow, gun , magic abilities or any long ranged weapon and you could shoot airborne mobs and engage them. Like you could actually obtain experience on the ride. I liked the FFXIV trailer with the air battle but imagine that is a key battle and not the norm. We should be able to increase our character on any timesink form of travel. Why should we be limited to land only based experience. When I'm traveling I want action. I loved when the sea horror showed up on the boat ride.
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#30 Jun 20 2009 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually I don't have a chocobo and haven't been to most of those places. Highest is only 45 and I haven't played FFXI in quite some time. Friends went elsewhere so I did too, and din't really have time for FFXI.

But anyway, I agree with you Leo. I'm all for choice. I say have plenty of little nuggets and such for ones like you who like to explore. I think it should accomodate everybody.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 7:28pm by Raymund
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#31 Jun 20 2009 at 6:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I loved the big areas, I hope SE doesn't go instance crazy. As already stated in this thread, the big zones taught you a lot about the game that instances could never teach you. Also it was only a hassle at low level, it got much easier as you went on. They had an auto run feature but you still had to pay attention, which to me is a good thing.
#32 Jun 21 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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while as annoying at times getting to point A from point B, instant warping to other towns, areas, locations just seems stupid. I never had an issue with travelling, just yesterday I got a Teleport-Holla and had to chocobo it to SanD'oria. It was not convenient, but it is what it is, if i could just pop into Sandy without a warp cudgel, scroll, spell I think it would make me lose interest in the game very quickly.

Square was smart enough to FORCE you to enjoy the scenery. As it is for most parts of the world it's too easy to get around as it is, in my opinion. You can practically go to whitegate, to jeuno, to whitegate, to home(Sandy), to bastok/windy/mhaura/selbina AND you still have the option of doing all of that (sans mhaura/selbina)from jeuno via airship. Its nice sometimes to just enjoy the walk, ride for the scenery and draw you back into the games environment. The hustle bustle of it all keeps you from the immersion when you're thinking "dynamis" this, and "Nyzul" that. I encourage everyone to ride the Phanumet canal and Purogono isle barges every blue moon.

If anyone decided to quit over walking through Gustaberg at low levels when they first started they were looking for every reason to quit anyway, for the most of us we saw that as exciting not irritating. Now I understand every game isn't for everybody and obviously they are not used to final fantasy games because everyone i know has an excrutiating long walk through some zone filled with random high level encounters, and if SE decided to cater more towards them then they would alienate their true playerbase and fans.

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 12:07pm by haife
#33 Jun 21 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I encourage everyone to ride the Phanumet canal and Purogono isle barges every blue moon.

This. This is what FFXIV needs. Making people want to spend time traveling. It doesn't have to take all day, but I think spending a fairly considerable amount of game time traveling is important. I've made countless acquaintances on said barges and on airships, just enjoying the scenery together, playing with glitches, shooting off fireworks, etc. If the game forces you to stop worrying about maxing your stats for 15 minutes, you just might find yourself being immersed in the environment. I play for the latter over the former, and I hope FFXIV helps others along that mentality.


The whole "leave it up to choice" idea doesn't sit super well with me. Okay, impatient people can zip from A to B to Zed in no time flat. Okay, boring geezers can take a Sunday stroll through the scenic route. The problem is, zipping around would inevitably become the forced standard for everyone, just to keep up. That's a choice between sacrificing a truly enjoyable aspect of the game and making advancement much more of a struggle. True, it's sort of selfish for those of us who enjoy it to want the long/difficult traveling, but just give a road trip a chance without pulling out your GameBoy.


I'm not convinced SE will ever make an MMO based around instant gratification - they know WoW's out there (and not to knock WoW, but it is largely "gimme gimme gimme! *get*..... bored bored bored, more more more, gimme gimme gimme!") and they know that just about everyone expects to see something closer to the slower-paced side of the spectrum, though not as far into it as FFXI.
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#34 Jun 21 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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I like the feeling you get when you arrive at an unknown place after spending a long time traveling there using multiple forms of transportation. It is a sense of accomplishment all in itself.

What I like even more is being in a place and thinking that you are the only person that has seen it. I love the zone design in FFXI, but they are so confining at times. There should be the ability to explore and not see anyone, just as there should be the ability to venture to the well known places in search for a party driven activity. The more remote, the longer and more difficult to get to.

***** WoW and it's teenage "I must have everything and have it now!!" mentality about everything. That whole ******* game is based on ADD stricken children and not inconveniencing them with any form of burden or reasons to throw tantrums.

Traveling should be difficult, long and tedious the farther and more treacherous your destination.
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