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#1 Jun 18 2009 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Ahhh the Auction House a place where I have memorable memories. I have made killings, stole, and been robbed. As you all know the AH had the number of items of the types are up of that item and a guessitmate of the price. I have gotten away with putting items up for 1Gil so that I dont have to pay the tax and get the item bought quicker and I have bought items with only 1gil. Do you think that SE will keep the AH like this or go to a more traditional AH where prices are shown.
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#2 Jun 18 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Default
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change.

The FFXI auction house provided an incredible amount of stability but that stability was often at an inflated price since price fixing was incredibly common. You can force the price high and it will stay like that forever. It was also poor because if an inflated item was actually not worth that and you tried to sell your item for less people might not bid because by checking the price history they will not even try.

With a market where you see the prices you can set what you think it's worth with current demand... everyone will probably do the same.

I also think you should be able to put up more than 7 fricken items... so dumb. Oh and cut down the auction house cut in the main cities or jeuno so there is more encouragement to use it instead of having 70 characters at the jeuno zone with bazaar's up(not that its a bad thing).
#3 Jun 18 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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idk ... But honestly I hope they make one ah for the world..everyone would have access to everything and nothing would cost 50k more one place vs another... As I found when I got to jueno the first time and everything was cheap..
#4 Jun 18 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I think if they start showin prices it will become less like an AH and more like a market place, I hope they stick with the AH style. I also think their should be a bank in ffxiv...maybe we could take out loans and have credit^^ that way I have two economys to ***** about lol.
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#5 Jun 18 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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boriss wrote:
change.

The FFXI auction house provided an incredible amount of stability but that stability was often at an inflated price since price fixing was incredibly common. You can force the price high and it will stay like that forever. It was also poor because if an inflated item was actually not worth that and you tried to sell your item for less people might not bid because by checking the price history they will not even try.

With a market where you see the prices you can set what you think it's worth with current demand... everyone will probably do the same.

I also think you should be able to put up more than 7 fricken items... so dumb. Oh and cut down the auction house cut in the main cities or jeuno so there is more encouragement to use it instead of having 70 characters at the jeuno zone with bazaar's up(not that its a bad thing).


I totally agree. We should be able to see what every item is listed as, as well as who has listed it. This will not only help with balancing the price, as you can choose to buy the lower priced item. This will help somewhat when people are trying to undercut. While there will still be someone willing to sell at a lower price it will stop them from going to drastic like selling a 500k item for 101k and getting the full 500k for it.

Second it will also allow people to avoid buying products from the RMT that are bound to show up eventually, if not majorly right off the bat.

I would also like a bazaar system kinda like that of Ultima Online where you could purchase an NPC to set on your property and sell your items for you. Then designate an area in each city where you can place these npcs.
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#6 Jun 18 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But honestly I hope they make one ah for the world

Dude that is a good idea. I remember being in Windy once to train my Bonecraft and decided to stay there for the time being. I was going to buy all the raw goods there but found out that they had nothing there that would help my bonecraft and i was like FML. It would also allow for people to get items from the comfort of their home town.

Boriss: The reason i think that they only limited it to seven items is for the people who get bored camping and stop at like 10 they wont go spam 10 wind crystals for 50gil each. Could u imagine that there are no stacks of wind crystals but theres like 134546 singles.
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#7 Jun 18 2009 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Boriss: The reason i think that they only limited it to seven items is for the people who get bored camping and stop at like 10 they wont go spam 10 wind crystals for 50gil each. Could u imagine that there are no stacks of wind crystals but theres like 134546 singles.


Yeah i can, it's because their auction house layout was poor, slow and not a very good layout.

I don't care how many singles are on there, the whole point is if you have 30-50 items in your bag after lots of grinding you should be able to sell them regardless. The way it is now you must create another character and send it, grab it, then list it, then send the money back. What a tedious and drawn out process.

Also if they allowed you to sell more than just a stack of 12(or was it 10) or singles you would be better off. What if i only find 3 or 4 of an expensive item? My ONLY choice is to sell as 1 or a full stack... pretty rigid system.

Listing the items kept things clean but at the same time many of the items were NEVER on the auction house. Rings and earrings were the worst. Sometimes people never crafted these rings or they were never found/implemented... but they existed in the auction house for you to see and sort through, waste of time.
#8 Jun 18 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I loved the AH, mostly because I found it incredibly easy to make money by using it.

Judging by the number of silk threads (I believe they were called...it's been a while...a long while), that were available for purchase at any given moment, I figured that the number of people running around killing Crawlers for threads was pretty low. But the prices for threads at the time were pretty high for an item that drops pretty frequently. So I figured
1.) not a lot of people farming them
2.) a lot of people need them.

So I bought all of the ones available, gradually upped the prices, and began farming my own...and in a few days the prices for threads had skyrocketed and I just bought threads that anyone else put up for a lower price and then relisted it for a higher price and had tons of gil...

Anyway, memories aside, I liked the AH because I didn't have to set up a bazaar and my things would still get sold. I wish more games had AHs that actually got used.
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#9 Jun 18 2009 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Change it only if they keep the price history in there somewhere. I like knowing what it usually goes for, it helps when there are none up on the AH. This can be a big problem in WoW, you don't know what half the stuff is worth because it's not up for sale at the time.
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#10 Jun 18 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Change it only if they keep the price history in there somewhere. I like knowing what it usually goes for, it helps when there are none up on the AH. This can be a big problem in WoW, you don't know what half the stuff is worth because it's not up for sale at the time.
This is a Problem in lotro too. I think the AH should be unified across the world. Its been a long time since I played ffxi so I really don't remember how their auction system worked. But you should be able to see both current and past prices for items your putting up to sell. If your buying you should be able to see all the listings and their prices/current bids. They should include a buyout option.

I think thay a good auction house is important but not the sole answer. Id like to see a global trade channel and the ability to create npc/player stores to sell your items. Someone mentioned a few posts back being able to create npcs load them with your items placing them wherever you want and have them sell them for you sounds like a great idea. You could go into a cities merchant hall where the ah house is and talk to a lister about employing a merchant to sell your wares then you get a little item walk around town till you see a spot you like use them item to call a merchant give him the items and fix your prices then forget about him.
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#11 Jun 18 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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It's a lot easier to manipulate the price of items when there is a price history too :P I really did like price histories in all fairness though.
#12 Jun 18 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Default
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Take out the newe and bring back the old FFIX Auction House.
That would be friggin sweet, but would take forever to find something...
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#13 Jun 18 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah it would really suck if you ended up buying something for 100k that is a really easy drops that everyone has because there is no price history. I remember i bought a head peace in WOW for 400G's that my friend could make with mats that cost 25G's all because of no price history.
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#14 Jun 18 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
I agree they change it too. They first should actually have an auction option where u actually auction things. Another major problem I agree with is that you could only list 7 items at a time. In reality a lot of people had much more than 7 items to sell (especially crafters) and a lot of us don't want to leave our computers running all day.

Also I think that the tax should be a cut at the end of the auction. A pre tax simply promotes market problems in a way. Post taxes causes for more stability.

So things we can agree on...

1. The seller name should be listed
2. We should be able to see the price of the item(s) opposed to guessing what the lowest price is.

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#15 Jun 18 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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The very best thing that Square can possibly do is link all the AHs together across all the towns and especially the servers; it would lead to:

-Cheaper prices
-No more market power (which means that RMT and whoever else can't monopolize or influence prices significantly--they'll be competing with the RMT ***** on every other server)
-Faster buying and selling (don't have to wait a year and a half to sell XXX)
-It would be significantly easier to buy obscure items that aren't listed often

Increased competition leads to a higher level of general welfare for everyone (except RMT and anyone else who dominated certain item drops and then gouged money from everyone else by selling them far above the competitive equilibrium price)
#16 Jun 18 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The very best thing that Square can possibly do is link all the AHs together across all the towns and especially the servers; it would lead to:

-Cheaper prices
-No more market power (which means that RMT and whoever else can't monopolize or influence prices significantly--they'll be competing with the RMT ***** on every other server)
-Faster buying and selling (don't have to wait a year and a half to sell XXX)
-It would be significantly easier to buy obscure items that aren't listed often

Increased competition leads to a higher level of general welfare for everyone (except RMT and anyone else who dominated certain item drops and then gouged money from everyone else by selling them far above the competitive equilibrium price)


I don't know if I agree with this. The AH would then become super-saturated with items. You'd never have to worry about finding ANY item that could possibly be on the auction house, regardless of if anyone on your server even saw that content yet. The first person to get something via a certain trade skill could then supply it to anyone in the world. And you'd constantly be getting out-bid by people on other servers, simply because their economy may be better (via things like regular trade, guild-related funding, things that don't cross servers).

I'd love to see all TOWNS linked though.
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#17 Jun 18 2009 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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One AH for the entire world sounds awesome. Would solve so many issues.
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#18 Jun 18 2009 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
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I think the AH should be linked to all towns in the server. I do NOT think it shoudl cross servers.
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#19 Jun 18 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Darn, I'm one of the few that doesn't really mind the separated auction houses. It felt "right" to me. For an example, if supply was high in x town but y town was the one with the crafting guild that used it, I could buy where supply was higher than demand and sell where demand was higher than supply. I dunno, I liked it, and it made sense to me :x.

Being able to see the prices of items currently up would be nice though, along with the price history. Maybe a longer one that would make it harder to manipulate, but then it'd be hard to tell whether the demand just went up or if someone was being a jerk.

Edited, Jun 18th 2009 9:44pm by Rikugo
#20 Jun 18 2009 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kharmageddon wrote:
The AH would then become super-saturated with items. You'd never have to worry about finding ANY item that could possibly be on the auction house, ...


What's wrong with that? I don't know why super-saturation is a bad thing. It just means that the market will be much more competitive, and as anyone who's taken an economics class knows, that's a great thing for overall welfare.

Kharmageddon wrote:
... regardless of if anyone on your server even saw that content yet. The first person to get something via a certain trade skill could then supply it to anyone in the world.


Again, why is that a problem? Is it really so horrible that you can buy something on the AH before someone on your server actually earns that item? You're looking to buy it on the AH anyway, it's not like you'd be going out and experiencing that content yourself. And even considering it is a bad thing--isn't a significantly more efficient economy worth it anyway? And beyond even that, how often do you think this would even happen? It's not like it's a common occurrence..

Kharmageddon wrote:
And you'd constantly be getting out-bid by people on other servers, simply because their economy may be better (via things like regular trade, guild-related funding, things that don't cross servers).


Not true. The AH is by far the game's most significant market; it is the economy. The effects of regular trade, guild-related funding, etc. are essentially irrelevant to the health of each server's economy, because each server's economy is the AH. On the individual level the "richness" or "poorness" of your server would become irrelvant--people on your own server can't gouge others on that server because they're competing with everyone else.

There's too much for me to bother to explain to really get my point across, but I have a degree in economics and I hope that what I said makes enough sense to make my case.

An (almost) universal economic maxim is that competition = good, and if you take into consideration that a) all items are perfectly interchangeable, b) that there aren't any negative externalities in videogames, and c) that there are no natural monopoly-esque goods in videogames, you can pretty much conclude that it really is a universal maxim.
#21 Jun 18 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Default
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That is a great idea. I've been on many different servers in FFXI and WoW, and you can always tell which server is suffering due to population restraints (or in FFXI's case, how bad RMT is there) Which would make this idea great. One thing i'd have to include though is server name it was bought from and sold to in the history list, and auction list. Not to mention of course, if it was a created item and said server hasn't discovered yet, I think it should be unavailable for the fact that you wouldn't want other servers to piggyback on one particular servers crafters.

Bidding, buy now price, also quick search where you just need to type in a name and bring up all relevant items. Easier categories to select. etc etc.
#22 Jun 18 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Not true. The AH is by far the game's most significant market; it is the economy. The effects of regular trade, guild-related funding, etc. are essentially irrelevant to the health of each server's economy, because each server's economy is the AH. On the individual level the "richness" or "poorness" of your server would become irrelvant--people on your own server can't gouge others on that server because they're competing with everyone else.

There's too much for me to bother to explain to really get my point across, but I have a degree in economics and I hope that what I said makes enough sense to make my case.

An (almost) universal economic maxim is that competition = good, and if you take into consideration that a) all items are perfectly interchangeable, b) that there aren't any negative externalities in videogames, and c) that there are no natural monopoly-esque goods in videogames, you can pretty much conclude that it really is a universal maxim.


again incorrect. You WOULD saturate the market. The whole point of limiting the server to say... 10k to 20k people is so you don't have so many people doing the exact same thing. If any game wanted they could create a super farm and act as 1 single computer making a huge world for 200-300k people... but they don't.

Your logic is incredibly flawed. The RMT would just raise the price passed the other RMT or something else, how would making them compete solve the issue ? Chances are most RMT companies on FFXI are owned by the same person just under a different name.

Also you forget the fact that they may add servers at a later date. Why would i want to show up in an early servers life and find epic gear available at an extortionate cost because people have been playing 10x longer than me...

No servers are equal hence why if you go to FFXIAH you may notice that things sell for relatively different prices on different servers. Sure some things are similar but nothing is quite equal. Why would we want to equalize each server? That defeats the point of even having different servers.

Gloating about your "degree" may help your ego but it really doesn't change the fact that it would in fact hurt the economy more than it would help. Some server will be cheaper and hurt all the others while one may be more expensive and drive the price to where it shouldn't be on other servers.

Lastly to sum it all up, what you fail to realize is that the people are the market, not the auction house. Just because something is booming on one server does not mean its needed on another... why change the game for someone else when you don't need to?
#23 Jun 18 2009 at 8:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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boriss, I believe morsmorde's post went right over your head. You didn't understand a word of it.
#24 Jun 18 2009 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default
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im on board with

1)showing how much the seller put the item on sale for...if somebody put a super item on sale for 1 gil, then we should see that.

2)keep the price history, but make it bigger. i want to see more than the last 7 or so sales, i want to see ALL the sales to see if item X is really worth its advertised price, or if some jerk off is being...a jerk off >_>


3)more than 7 items can be sold at once, but not much more. maybe 15-20. there should still be some limit to give newer crafters a chance. if there was no limit then some high level crafter at a high level could just put 98035476568734398 of an item on sale and i'll probably buy his just by chance because he is seemingly the only one selling them, totally missing the poor new crafter at a low level who only had enough skill and materials to put 7 up for sale. in the end its a game, regardless of how it works in the real world, everyone should have a chance. in this game little "mom and pop" shops should be able to compete with the "walmarts" out there


in fact there are alot of things they could and should do to help the "little guy". there are so many times in online games where i try to help out my common man and sell things at a more than fair price if i have easy access to it...only to have someone buy all of it and sell it at a super inflated price. that kinda thing may work in the real world, but if i wanted the games i play to be that realistic...well i wouldnt be playing a game, ide become a business man. life isnt fair, but this isnt real life.

though we should fend for ourselves to an extent, they should put certain rules and regulations up to prevent this from happening <at a large scale> because oits just not cool. the nice guy might finish alst IRL, but from my experience they do pretty **** well in videogames, and thats what this is.

people are always in such a big money race that they just dont realise...if EVERYONE stopped thinking with their wallets for a second and stopped jacking up prices...everything would be cheaper. if everything is cheaper then guess what? you dont need as much money to get what you want. guess what that means? that 100 gil you have now may as well be 1000000. but no, its always about what "I" want and about helping "me". and because of that, most people suffer and the ones who thrive are the ones who screwed everybody else. again, yes, thats pretty much how it works in the real world, the big guy stepping on the little guy to get what he wants. but if we would let go of that and start thinking logically, we'd realise that everyone, including the money grubbers <lets face it, we ALL want money> becoem happy. and isnt everyone being happy better than a few being happy?

if that happend then when XIV comes out not only would we have less people on forums ******** about the economy and how hard it is to get this and that because its so expensive, but we would also be a lot happier and tightknit community where your neighbores would go out of their way to help you and viceversa, to where you sign on and dont think about how your going to get enough money for item X but rather sign on and hang out with friends, fight monsters, explore, quest, and through it all you know that you had a hand in making the "world" a better place

and we really would need just about everybody thinking this way. it only takes one person to plant a bad seed. a seed that grows into a bad tree that branches out infecting more and more...until its all gone. 1 person starts thinking "hmm, well so long as i still keep the price low I can raise it a little" then they get away with it...so somebody else does it as well...and more. and more. and more. until its the same situation that plagues a good deal of online games today, over inflated economy.


sorry i got a bit preechy there. and i know its just a bunch of idealism that probably wont happen. but i can dream cant I? i dont know how it is now but back when i used to play XI the econ was just out of control. to save room i would often throw away the really low level stuff <or sell/give it away if i felt like it> and then one day i was going to begin leveling up a new job i had aquired. i went to the auction house to get some lower level armor and weapons...only to discover that they were a price no newbie could possibly afford to purchase without help. it sickened me. seeing that kinda stuff with mid-high level plate armor, especially HQ ones, but this was bronze, leather, and scalemail, cheapo low level stuff thats craftable so soon i could probably go to their respective crafting headquarters, sign up, and be able to make it within a day or so tops. however i had enough money to just start a craft and plow through the first rank or so...a newbie wouldnt. you have to have money to make money afterall

again sorry. and now i fully expect to be told how wrong i am, but i dont care, is tick to my guns dang it. i can never be convinced that me doing something nice and putting an item up for 500 then it being bought and resold for 5000 is right
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#25 Jun 18 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The very best thing that Square can possibly do is link all the AHs together across all the towns and especially the servers; it would lead to:

-Cheaper prices
-No more market power (which means that RMT and whoever else can't monopolize or influence prices significantly--they'll be competing with the RMT ***** on every other server)
-Faster buying and selling (don't have to wait a year and a half to sell XXX)
-It would be significantly easier to buy obscure items that aren't listed often

Increased competition leads to a higher level of general welfare for everyone (except RMT and anyone else who dominated certain item drops and then gouged money from everyone else by selling them far above the competitive equilibrium price)


I think this could work only problem is I don't see how you would make money in the game.
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#26 Jun 18 2009 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I've seen it in different permutations above, but here's how I'd design a good AH:

1) All prices and player names visible in an attractive, easy to browse layout. This will let people know who they're buying from, hurting RMT and generally unliked people.

2) There should be two options for AH fees.
- Option 1: Pay 1% up front for asking price, and if doesn't sell, you lose that fee, like in FFXI.
- Option 2: Pay nothing up front, but 5% of proceeds when the item sells.
Both of these options provide options to deter extremely inflated prices placed by infinitely patient people.

3) Bigger price history. At least 100 prevents people from price fixing by wiping the history with only 10 sales. It's only four data fields. Buyer (text), Seller (text), Date and price. Wouldn't take up much space or processing power at all on the server.

4) eBay style auctions. Every item has a 'Buy It Now' price the player chooses immediately when listing the item, but the player can also choose to allow bidding on his item starting from his minimum reserve price. It would also let the seller end the auction at any time if he wants to sell. You all know how eBay works, no need to explain that one further.

5) Marketwatch. I'd like a feature that would tell me when an item comes up that I need. I could see this requiring a fee or other limitations to prevent abuse.

6) Limits on number of items listed, but limit can be expanded. I can see starting all characters with 3 auction house slots, then allowing them to perform quests (in my mind, the quests would be unusual requests to advertise in dangerous territories) up to 15 or so. This is like gobbie bag quests, but please no more "Fetch me stuff from 10 feet away where I could have bought it myself and just asked you for the money, but I'm not gonna."

To accent this type of economy, I'd like to see some really new and interesting marketplaces. Entire streets where people can pick a stall or blanket and display their wares. This may be graphically intensive, but if they could make it look similar to an old world open air market, that would just be super cool.
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#27 Jun 18 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Just keep it so that you don't have to wait days to get the item... I want the item when I need it. Other than that change the whole system if needed, idc.
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#28 Jun 18 2009 at 10:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
boriss, I believe morsmorde's post went right over your head. You didn't understand a word of it.


Thank you Yog, after reading that guy's post i was very ;_; and afraid that everything i said was going to be misunderstood.

jakarai wrote:
I think this could work only problem is I don't see how you would make money in the game.


The obvious answer is by selling items on the AH :) You kill a monster, you get an item, you sell it on the AH for the current market price: gil in the pocket, woo

And sure, making lots of money by crafting will become harder because you'll be competing with so many more crafters, but that can easily be offset by creating incentives for crafting your own items yourself. Any kind of bonus would do, really--a slight defense increase for wearing armor that you "custom tailored" for yourself? Or medicines that you brewed specifically for your own body? Being able to sign the items you craft, too, is an incentive for crafting--there's a certain amount of pride walking around in armor that has your signature on it ;)



I like the idea a few of you have mentioned for dropping the whole auction thing altogether... When sellers list items they're picking the exact prices that they're selling those items for, and when buyers go to buy items they're prompted with a list, sorted by lowest price, of all those items that are currently being sold. You can see the lowest price super easily, and also who's selling at which price, and make the purchase accordingly (you can buy from a friend if you see his name and want to support him, or refrain from buying from an RMT or something). Also, it'll save a lot of time versus systems like FFXI's where it sometimes takes minutes of continuous bidding to get an item for the lowest price.
#29 Jun 19 2009 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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I also like the idea of showing an extensive price history as well as player names.

One reason that I like the idea of player names is that if an item is no longer available in the AH, a player can check the item history and maybe see that a certain player has sold 10, 20, or 30 of the same item...and is maybe the only one selling it.

The player can always contact the seller and say something like "Hi, if you find or craft x item again, can I get first dibs if I pay 10% or 20% more (or whatever)?"

I think that would be an interesting system.

I also think an eBay style would be great, where you can use a Buy Now option. For example, if I want to sell 7 of one item, and I would rather have the money ASAP rather than waiting for a bid war to end, I could just list it with a buy now option for an average, or even low, price...just to get the money quicker or get rid of the items faster to make room for other items.
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#30 Jun 19 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
mosmorde is making good posts here. he knows what he's talking about when it comes to economics. having degrees in accounting and finance, i've taken my fair share of college level econ classes, too, and i'll vouch for him.

and i also appreciate that he didn't get into a ******* match with boriss, even after he flamed up his completely sound and reasonable argument. his "degree" sounds legit, dude, and economic theory and principles are based on hundreds of years of research - not what you think some video game economy should be. the AH works exactly like a real economy. its one of the greatest features in FFXI and i personally hope they keep it around in FFXIV.
#31 Jun 19 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Good
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230 posts
How awesome would it be if someone made a killer app for these new smart phone (iphone, g1, etc.) that allowed you to log in, browse the AH and buy stuff from your mobile phone and have it mailed to your character?

Just sayin'.
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#32 Jun 19 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Decent
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423 posts
How did his post go over my head? Do you even understand what i was trying to say? Clearly maybe you don't understand, all you come in and say is "oh you don't understand" with no emphasis why or how... clearly i think you do not.

This is not a real market. In no way does the online game markets apply to real world markets. Coming in, saying you have a degree means nothing. Do people in real life have unlimited time, money and resources (from a single players perspective on RMT)... no they don't.

Applying these principles to a game just doesn't work. Trying to justify that linking all servers will balance the economy is absurd, trying to tell me i don't understand without explaining yourself just furthers proves my point that you have absolutely no idea.

The economy does not apply because:

1) There is no risk: You do not lose anything if you raise the price neither does anyone else except time(and from RMT's perspective they can list/buy 100 things of one type and skyrocket the price)
2) You make it 10x easier for RMT to control the market. Before RMT had to have a different account for every server to do things in sync. With having 1 market they can do it all whenever they want and impact every server.

3) Playerbase will force prices higher or lower. Something will be common on one server and not on another. Right there people will drive the economy higher to get it. In order for them to afford this item they force the prices higher.

4) By linking everything you destroy the supply and demand cycle completely.
FFXI took care of this by having different AH's, hence why higher end armor was significantly cheaper in jeuno whereas bonecrafting items in Windy were sometimes expensive and hard to come by.

5) Farming for certain items will go out of control, saturate the market and destroy any type of supply/demand there might have been. Guild events may be popular on one server not much on another. Heck everyone might fish on one server and not on another... that's not my problem why should i pay for it?

If you come onto the market and see 1400 or even 14000 of any item do you think it's going to be worth much? WoW's market and even FFXI are influenced by people who significantly undercut 10-15 quantity of an item so they can sell it now, that also once again affects every server. Imagine 1000 players all undercutting each other at the same time, do you think thats stability?

The only part i agree with you on is long term stability "could" be maintained... but we aren't looking for a game wide stability of the auction house we are looking for a playerbase stability.

So please, i have made many points but you keep telling me i do not understand. Example after example of why a game wide economy will not be a good idea... but yet somehow you tell me i don't understand. Granted i could be wrong if they figure out something in between FFXI and Wow... somehow eliminate the RMT then perhaps they can balance the economy, but we will still see disparity server to server it's only a matter of time...

P.S. This not a "************* match. Please do refer to me in that context as i have never insulted anyone and do not plan to. He made some valid points and i disagreed, i have a right to and i did.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 9:50am by boriss
#33 Jun 19 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
wow. i wouldn't know where to start.
#34 Jun 19 2009 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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131 posts
How about it works like an actual auction house? With bid times and item goes to highest bidder? That would make a bunch of people angry!
#35 Jun 19 2009 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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130 posts
I think you need to start with an actual response instead of just putting in an empty statement.

So far nobody has even made an attempt to refute what boriss has said, and what seems to me to be correct.

My personal preference would be Final Fantasy XI's auction system, but improved. Multiple auction houses per server, which creates a more realistic market in the world, instead of having one world system there are many individual economies. Keep the price hidden, but give a larger price history. I enjoyed the risk-reward system of undercutting prices in an attempt to get your item sold. Definitely don't link the auction houses between servers for all the problems boriss correctly mentioned.

My only issue with XI's system, was it was slow as could be. Please wait a minute and try again. Uhm no? A speedier, more intuitive menu system, preferably with a search system, and more then 7 items would be nice.
#36 Jun 19 2009 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
Quote:
How about it works like an actual auction house? With bid times and item goes to highest bidder? That would make a bunch of people angry!


i was referring to the boriss' post above my last one, but i suppose this might be an interesting alternative. people would hate having to wait, though. imagine you just want a stack of cheifkabobs because you're going out to level up, but you have to wait 3 days to get your cheifkabobs before the auction ends. not really practical, is it?

the "buy it now" option would end up being the dominant purchase option for the sake of convenience, so why not just can the whole timed auction do everything buy it now? no point in wasting time coding an AH system that no one will use.

or we could just keep the blind auction the way it is now...
#37 Jun 19 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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131 posts
Eliminex wrote:

i was referring to the boriss' post above my last one, but i suppose this might be an interesting alternative. people would hate having to wait, though. imagine you just want a stack of cheifkabobs because you're going out to level up, but you have to wait 3 days to get your cheifkabobs before the auction ends. not really practical, is it?

the "buy it now" option would end up being the dominant purchase option for the sake of convenience, so why not just can the whole timed auction do everything buy it now? no point in wasting time coding an AH system that no one will use.

or we could just keep the blind auction the way it is now...

Yeah mine was more so of a joke post but hey if it is like ebay where if you want to wait for the days to count down to get it cheap you can but if you want to buy it now you can do that also
#38 Jun 19 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yeah mine was more so of a joke post but hey if it is like ebay where if you want to wait for the days to count down to get it cheap you can but if you want to buy it now you can do that also


haha, ok gotcha. its not a bad idea, by any means. i just think people would hate waiting, that's all. people already complain about having to bid 4 or 5 times for one item, soooo.... you get what i mean.
#39 Jun 19 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
Quote:
I think you need to start with an actual response instead of just putting in an empty statement.

So far nobody has even made an attempt to refute what boriss has said, and what seems to me to be correct.


morsmorde has plenty of times. his posts are intelligent and make sense. no need to attempt to refute anyone that's not going to listen anyways.

plus, i don't prefer to write long *** posts like everyone else - which is what i'd have to do to refute all the inane points he's trying to make. i'd just assume to save my own time and yours by not making you read the first chapter to my novel. especially if i was speaking on things to which i don't seem to have a basic concept of, like boriss' posts. take an econ class.
#40 Jun 19 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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180 posts
Speaking to the making listed prices visible bit, I liked the AH system in FFXI because in games where the price is listed you'll find people undercutting you by the smallest amount possible. Using EQ2 as an example, it was extremely frusting to find nothing has sold after days because there are ten people listing the same 2 silver item for 1 silver 99 copper, 1 silver 98 copper, 1 silver 97 copper, etc. They're all selling for essentially the same price, but if you don't check your sales items CONSTANTLY to lower them by that 1 gil or copper, they'll never sell.

In FFXI you can be undercut, but it usually has to be by a significant amount because they don't know exactly what you've listed your item for. It was a great system for selling, and if you're patient as a buyer, often worked in your favor as well. I've gotten several items dirt cheap just because someone massively undercut expecting people to be lazy and pay full price.
#41 Jun 19 2009 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
Quote:
Speaking to the making listed prices visible bit, I liked the AH system in FFXI because in games where the price is listed you'll find people undercutting you by the smallest amount possible. Using EQ2 as an example, it was extremely frusting to find nothing has sold after days because there are ten people listing the same 2 silver item for 1 silver 99 copper, 1 silver 98 copper, 1 silver 97 copper, etc. They're all selling for essentially the same price, but if you don't check your sales items CONSTANTLY to lower them by that 1 gil or copper, they'll never sell.

In FFXI you can be undercut, but it usually has to be by a significant amount because they don't know exactly what you've listed your item for. It was a great system for selling, and if you're patient as a buyer, often worked in your favor as well. I've gotten several items dirt cheap just because someone massively undercut expecting people to be lazy and pay full price.


great post
#42 Jun 19 2009 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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139 posts
i'd hate to double post again, but boriss or grogrog or whoever else wants to try to debunk adam smith, john maynard keynes, or milton friedman and hundreds of years of economic theory - please, answer this question:

in which situation will the price of earth crystals be higher in the auction house?

1. when there is 10,000 people all selling the same earth crystals
2. when there is 1 person controlling all of the earth crystals
#43 Jun 19 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
The only problem I see with connecting all the servers together would be that RMT would congregate then on one server, since they wouldn't need have representation on each one individually. Potentially, we could have a server of nothing but RMT. That would be one unfortunate server. I don't know whether that would hurt or help their business, but other than that unfortunate side effect I don't see any flaws in the pro-connect arguments.



#44 Jun 19 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Default
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139 posts
Quote:
The only problem I see with connecting all the servers together would be that RMT would congregate then on one server


i don't think that would be a problem at all. most people hate playing with RMTs anyways. i'd assume just give them their own **** server.
#45 Jun 19 2009 at 10:59 AM Rating: Default
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130 posts
Bunk question, as neither and both situations can occur in either system (cross or uncrossed server Auction Houses), and is either way irrelevant to much that has been discussed.

Instead of trying to setup a question, please explain your point.
#46 Jun 19 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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2,824 posts
While you will find more availability for high end and rare items, you will see players flock towards those items for investments. The difference is only scale. Shortages will be even bigger in a cross-server markets, market floods will be even bigger in cross-server markets. The speed in which they are corrected will most likely be quicker too, but that could allow less players to take advantage of those corrections.


edit- The difference in my mind is resources. Each server is an exact replica of the next. Diamonds only come from several mines around the world, oil only comes from several holes in the ground, Mircosoft only comes from Redmond. Earth Crystals come out of every server, Scorpion Harnesses come out of every server, Tuna comes out of every server.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 1:04pm by baelnic
#47 Jun 19 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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46 posts
i dont know much about economics but if you have 1 AH for all servers there will be more items for sale but also more ppl buying them, so it should still have the same balance as it would be if the AH was only for 1 server and prices wont change much?

just asking, not stating anything >.> and sorry about bad english
#48 Jun 19 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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2,010 posts
Eliminex wrote:


i don't think that would be a problem at all. most people hate playing with RMTs anyways. i'd assume just give them their own **** server.


My concern specifically is that if they no longer have to split their resources across several worlds, they can potentially lower their overhead and be more productive by working together on one server.

#49 Jun 19 2009 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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139 posts
Quote:
Bunk question, as neither and both situations can occur in either system (cross or uncrossed server Auction Houses), and is either way irrelevant to much that has been discussed.

Instead of trying to setup a question, please explain your point.


since you've got nothing to worry about, you could just answer the question. there's only one right answer and you know it and you know where i'm headed. i'll lead you down the path if you answer the question.

or you could just admit you know don't know anything about economics and spare us both the effort.
#50 Jun 19 2009 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
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5,684 posts
Quote:
My concern specifically is that if they no longer have to split their resources across several worlds, they can potentially lower their overhead and be more productive by working together on one server.


Would this make them more easy to identify?
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#51 Jun 19 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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139 posts
Quote:
My concern specifically is that if they no longer have to split their resources across several worlds, they can potentially lower their overhead and be more productive by working together on one server.


they'd actually have to compete with each other. there's not just one RMT company. they're all after the same thing. its actually better for the RMTs to be on more than one server.
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