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Hi-Rez Solution to RMTFollow

#1 Jun 18 2009 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
1,159 posts
Hi-Rez Studios is the creator of Global Agenda, a MMO that will soon be in beta. I bring this up because recently one of their team members made a comment in their game forums saying they will combat RMT by not allowing trade between players at all. All commerce will be conducted through the auction house. I automatically thought it a bad idea but I'm unable to give a good enough reason why not to do it. It eliminates easy trading between your alts and your guild members but you should be able to manipulate the AH to do it anyway so it's not really that big of a deal. I then thought about it in terms of FFXI. It would eliminate the bazaar..but if they get rid of the AH item limit (which is idiotic anyway) and the high AH tax (which is way too high in Jeuno) that wouldn't much matter. You wouldn't be able to have an alt to carry all of your stuff...but if they implement a bank and larger baggage that wouldn't be a problem at all.

I then thought about the benefits in terms of WoW (and somewhat FFXI). No more trade channel! No more people shouting WTB x item or WTS y gear. It's possible that it might work to severely hinder RMT activities.

In the end I think the benefits outweigh the possible inconveniences it creates but I still don't like the idea. What do you guys think? Would it be a decent way to curb the RMT in FFXIV? Can you think of more reasons not to implement it?
#2 Jun 18 2009 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
50 posts
In theory it sounds good...But also extremely inconvenient. I cant tell u how many times I would be fighting NM or in a pt, or doing dynamis and had a friend bring me some shihe. this would also eliminate delivery box?
Don't like it...Why should we suffer because of RMT's? Plus, they will find a way around it and we will be without player to player trade for nada.
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#3 Jun 18 2009 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
1,089 posts
Can you think of more reasons not to implement it?

What mob said. So I'm now restricted from every having someone bring me items. I forgot my poison pots to a fight and now I can't get anything? Thanks but no thanks, I've used trading way too often in XI and I imagine I will want to in XIV.
#4 Jun 18 2009 at 7:40 PM Rating: Default
5,684 posts
agreed. direct player to player trade is too important of an option to remove in a vain attempt to rid the game of RMT.

The best way to combat RMT is to make it to where people don't require their services. This is easier said than done, however, as there will always be lazy players. No matter how simple you make any method of income, buying gil will always be easier.

It's just something we will have to grin and bear.
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#5 Jun 18 2009 at 7:44 PM Rating: Default
242 posts
RMT is an evil I've come to accept. SE won't do anything to combat them, that doesn't directly ***** over legitimate gamers. Something tells me that no matter what SE implements to deal with the bastards, they'll still make their money, and honest players will suffer. All one can do as an individual is to report any RMT activity they see to a GM. I know for a fact, that I've taken out a few operations myself, but they're like roaches: Kill one, 10 or 30 come back.
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#6 Jun 18 2009 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
66 posts
How does RMT benefit by trading (versus using the AH)? I don't know how this would help... Those ******** will be able to sell they're items for gil regardless haha.

The best way to combat RMT is to make it so they can't monopolize items. Make RMT compete against other RMT. I propose (again) a pan-server AH

I mean, really, if I wanted to buy some gil I could just hook up with the RMT guy, find a cheap item on the AH that has only 1 in stock, but that 1 in stock, and then sell it for a million gil. The RMT buys it. In-game segment of the transaction complete..

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 12:05am by Morsmorde
#7 Jun 18 2009 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
1,089 posts
I'll add in my idea for ridding the world of RMT.

Ban credit cards numbers. Ban names associated with particular card companies with a particular address. SE won't do this because they want those RMT to keep buying their games and signing up for a month or two before they get banned again because at the end of the day, when they ban 5,000 accounts that's 5,000 in new sales and 5,000 * 1-2 months worth of subs fees.

Second, ban buyers. Make people that buy afraid of it.

Either dry up the supply or dry up the demand, SE can pick.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 12:16am by mpmaley
#8 Jun 18 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
11,576 posts
I guess it was only a matter of time before a game developer put battling RMT over the game experience. Restricting trade between players is a phenomenally lame idea, imo. I'd be curious to see how they tune the rest of the game to mitigate the inconvenience of having all exchanges between players funneled through the auction house. I have to give them credit for trying something new to deal with RMT, but I kinda think that their little experiment is going to evolve into a demonstration of what not to do to address RMT.
#9 Jun 19 2009 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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A virtual community needs a virtual police force. This is an absolute requirement for any game that has an economy. SE tried to avoid this for years and finally was forced to either start policing the game or cede control of FFXI to the RMT.

Just as with crime IRL you will never get rid of RMT entirely but you can reduce it to tolerable levels. And SE has actually been fairly successful with that.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 9:59pm by Lobivopis
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#10 Jun 20 2009 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
9,997 posts
If they were going to do that, I'd just as soon that they just remove the ingame player to player economy. Make it so that nothing can be traded. You keep it, drop it, or sell it to an NPC. It's the surest way to end RMT.

Personally I prefer if the economy is just not as... important. Really good equipment can't be bought and most trading is for aesthetic purposes. i.e., you want a particular sword not because it's so much better than the sword you already have, but because you like the way it looks.

But how about something like this? Let's say that you want to trade your relic weapon in FFXI, but you can only trade it for another relic weapon, and nothing else can be in the transaction? Some kind of ranking process for high-tier items that only allows them to be traded with items of the same rank. Then there can be no RMT because everything would be completely tit for tat. RMT would be forced to deal in items with relatively little value, as they'd have no incentive to try to slay high level monsters.
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#11 Jun 20 2009 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
456 posts
Bad Idea, The whole purpose of an mmo is player interaction. Hurting players to temporarily stop rmt ( I say temporarily because rmt will find a way around it evenutally), is not a good idea. You use the trade function way too much for it to be removed because of rmt. Rmt will always be around the best thing you can do is start policing it from day one of release, and put more work into investigating situations. Ban credit cards and every account on that credit card when someone gets banned.

Personally money will always be an important feature of any mmo, assuming that it even has an economy. There will always be people who gets enjoyment out of becoming rich. Some high tier gear should be sellable, mainly because some people will have no purpose for it but to sell it. Not all gear should be sellable, but I think ffxi did a good job with this to a point. Everything should not be rare/ex, just like everything should not be sellable.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 9:29pm by HocusP
#12 Jun 20 2009 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
100 posts
All I know is, as long as I don't get gold seller spam in tells/whispers I'll be happy. Nothing makes me rage more. I also hope FFXIV has more variety in items. I mean, for years the only way to increase your accuracy besides food were those **** Sniper's Rings. And the only boots that gave DEX for like 50 levels were Leaping Boots, which I think everyone camped at least once in their career. SO yeah, more ways to acquire good gear makes it harder for RMT companies to hold monopoly.
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#13 Jun 20 2009 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
514 posts
Yogtheterrible wrote:
Can you think of more reasons not to implement it?

What about events like Dynamis? Let us assume FFXIV has similar events, how would we go about distributing those passes(Ex: Hourglass) to those events if we can't trade. The cause sounds good, but the the downside would be more than just inconvenience IMO.
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#14 Jun 21 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Default
354 posts
auction house tax destroyed most of my profits from level 100+3 blacksmithing. Selling things at 2-3 million with a huge chunk taken out.
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#15 Jun 21 2009 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
103 posts
I feel the best way to get rid of RMT is police far better, if you have like 6 named Kwehzyr8o43 they sit in a zone all day farming, 24/7 don't really speak, produce large amounts of gil and sends it off I think you should conduct investigations see where that gil is going, see who they are sending it too, then see who that person sends it too. It is not that hard, it is a matter of listening to players. You could keep a database of names, and have the investigating GM go through and say Yae or Nae on the names on the list, marking them off the list as "Not RMT" or placing them on the list as "RMT". If flagged as RMT you could ban the functions of AuctionHouse and Trade until they speak with a Senior GM, if that senior GM decides that person is RMT they get a ban.

The list may be long, but if youre suspect and flagged as rmt by the investigating GM you could be days of game play without AH or Trade functions. Also to favor this solution as someone said before make it so RMT doesn't have much of a chance, buyable gear is awesome, but i really liked how they went through and released/ex/rare'd a lot of equipment and weapons. Having that foresight from the start will prove to be very beneficial a foresight they did not have at the beginning of ffxi.
#16 Jun 21 2009 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
1,159 posts
Well, concerning passing things out for various things (hourglass, potions, ect). In order to pass things out more efficiently Blizz implemented cauldrons for potions, you create a cauldron that appears on the ground and everyone around you can click on it and receive potions. Cooks can create a feast on the ground so everyone can pick up food. Mages create a refreshment tray to pass out conjured food. Warlocks create a soulwell to pass out heartstones.

I still don't like the idea but I'm just saying this is one way to get around some of the problems it causes.

Like other people have said I think the best way to combat RMT is to assign a few GMs to police the servers. It doesn't take that much to know someone is a RMT. I also said on another thread they should have a google earth type interface with the game to make it easier to maneuver around on the servers.
#17 Jun 21 2009 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
83 posts
Well, first off I hate the idea of not being able to trade but I hate the idea of RMT even more. Like a few people have suggested, what is needed from Square Enix in ffxiv is a more secure security system for accounts, a customer service system that is effective, and a hunting system in-game that could take a couple pages from the hunting system in ffxii.

Just my three cents.
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#18 Jun 21 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
1,246 posts
Sounds stupid to be honest.
They've let RMT get to them so much they're just taking the easy route an ruining one of the good aspects of an mmo.

I prefer how SE tough it out and are there time after time to crush whatever scemes the RMT are up to, and make the effects hardly noticable to the average player...
#19 Jun 21 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
1,570 posts
Bardalicious wrote:
The best way to combat RMT is to make it to where people don't require their services. This is easier said than done, however, as there will always be lazy players. No matter how simple you make any method of income, buying gil will always be easier.
I agree with this. If your game's character progression is entirely based on stupidly rare items, that's declaring open season for RMT. If the methods for obtaining said items are ardorous and annoying and very time-consuming, you just invited RMT to make a profit off that.

Anything that's rarity-based is going to encourage RMT. We're no longer in an age where everyone is a bright-eyed player with lots of free time. Specially those of us that have jobs. >.>
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#20 Jun 21 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
1,218 posts
It won't stop RMT.

"Oh hi, this is RMT Bob from Not China. I see you have make purchase for 5 million gil. For to make your convenience, please post an auction of (trash item that isn't on the AH, because people usually just sell it to a vendor) for 5 million gil."

Took me 10 seconds to work around that.

The only way to truly combat RMT would be to make everything bound to your account. No trading of any kind. No economy = no RMT (except for power leveling type services that most people are not stupid enough to engage in).

The more freely you allow trading, the more freely you allow RMT. Since allowing people to trade freely goes a long way to making your world feel alive and sociable, you are choosing between a less compelling game and a game that is easier for RMT to navigate.

A better approach is to design your game in such a way that people with a monetary incentive are not able to monopolize whole segments of the economy.

For example, don't have named mobs that pop in the same exact spot and are the only source of some highly valuable item. If an RMT bot is going to farm KS and then an RMT crew is going to go and succeed at a KSNM, and then turn around and sell those items well... congratulations, they're not disrupting the game, they're playing it.

Have economic tools that are tracking what is produced, in what quantities, and by whom. Track the flow of in game currency. You can't get every single RMT, but you can constantly disrupt them. When you lower their profit margin, you force them to cut back their activities. It's basic micro economics.

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 4:06pm by KarlHungis

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 4:16pm by KarlHungis
#21 Sep 26 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Default
1 post
Sorry to semi-necro a thread, but this is pretty relevant now that the CE has launched.


In the real world, we don't stop the mail system to combat organized crime. We monitor it.

It would honestly be far cheaper for SE to hire employees to monitor suspected RMT behavior than the amount they're costing themselves in pre-order cancellations and subscription losses by making the game incredibly difficult for everyone else.

Everyone I know has already blown through most of their anima because they have no way to send this or that item to an LS-mate. "Hey Chacha, do you need a Bronze Needle +1?" "Yes, please!" "I'm in Grid, you'll need to come pick it up." Repeat all day long until everyone is now totally stingy with their anima and has to drop everything they're doing every five minutes when a friend wants to give them some new crafted item or some materials they think they might need.

With no delivery box, we are blowing through our anima or choosing to go without offered items from our friends. I know a few people who are only ready to quit because they don't anticipate that SE will reverse this policy.

What is SE thinking? Organized crime utilizes the mail system and crosses borders, but we don't shut down the mail and close up the borders to prevent it. WE MONITOR THE **** MAIL AND CHECK AT THE BORDERS. If they're this lazy, or thought that shutting it all down would somehow force players into finding their own way, they're delusional.

The "don't forget your friends, family, school, or your work" message from FFXI made me laugh, because the game was incredibly time-consuming. FFXIV is already proving to be 5x more time-consuming thanks to SE's own attempts to hinder RMT.

Edited, Sep 26th 2010 4:33pm by ChachaRutoto
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