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#1 Jun 19 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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In this week's issue, Famitsu has printed the reactions to the announcement of Final Fantasy XIV at E3. The feature is called ゲームユーザーの意見箱 (Gamer Opinion Box), and this week it contains submissions about some of the exciting presentations we saw this year. Out of their Top 5 news items, Final Fantasy XIV actually ranked #1!

Read the story and see how some Japanese gamers felt about the announcement.
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#2 Jun 19 2009 at 7:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Glad to see it. I'm not that surprised though. FF is huge the world-over. Just because we Americans can't handle actual hardcore gameplay, doesn't mean the world still doesn't need challenging, engaging and long stories. </rant>

edit - meh, I thought it'd be a lot more hyped up than that. Oh well.

Edited, Jun 19th 2009 11:58am by Kharmageddon
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#3 Jun 19 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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thats nice hearing all the great news and hype about FFXIV.
#4 Jun 19 2009 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.
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#5 Jun 19 2009 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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Wow! Finally, a non-hater as far as FF online is concerned. I think calling it by the name FF XI-2 would have negative response, since most people I know have bad memories regarding FF X-2, myself included. I'm glad SE went with FFXIV Online, because it gives me high hopes this one will be truly unique and different from its online predecessor. SE has had more hits than misses, as far as I am concerned. 2010 will truly be a great year for any Final Fantasy fan^&^
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#6 Jun 19 2009 at 11:55 AM Rating: Default
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Wow. That's a world of difference between the Western reaction and the japanese reactions. I'm glad there are many there who are excited, unlike over here where gamers wont even give it a chance. It was also nice to get a little insight on the japanese game player, mostly adults, and mostly Square Enix Fans, and mostly employed (though i saw some unemployed people there). Lets hope that the west warms up to this promising game.
#7 Jun 19 2009 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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PrinnyFlute wrote:
Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.


That's because we use a different standard of measuring. Look at all the complaints or suggestions taken from other NA/EU MMO's especially WoW. For the JP, FF has always been #1, tied with Dragon Quest. Basically what I'm saying is the JP client doesn't know any better. Look at the sales of a non JP console system and you'll see my point. Xbox doesn't sell well at all despite all it's hype or games. If you still don't believe me, look over all the complaints of NA members have for FFXI. Stuff like no windowed mode(has Windower now), limited inventory, bad port of a PS2 game, and the list goes on. However, the JP client knew these limitations and accepted them. I don't see how anyone can be surprised a 56k game on 4MB of ram wouldn't be held back in some way.

So you have to ask yourself, are you capable of being limited by PS3 limitations?? If no, then just pass on FFXIV and save your self a headache. I do think the PC interface will be greatly improved. Broadband, Windows 7 patches, Windowed mode, more KB customization, and more.
#8 Jun 19 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.


These weren't random. They where questioning people already invested into FF. Just look at the concerns of "I wonder what would happen to FF11" and all.

Its essentially the same as asking on these forums what people think of FFXIV, not random people.
#9 Jun 19 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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What I find surprising about that article... Is that everyone was surprised.

I thought it was painfully obvious that Rapture was going to be FFXI's sequel. I didn't know if it was going to be FFXIV or FXV (AKA, if it would be within the next 2-3 years, or if it would take longer than that), but I still thought it was painfully obvious that it was coming.
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#10 Jun 19 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
PrinnyFlute wrote:
Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.


That's because we use a different standard of measuring. Look at all the complaints or suggestions taken from other NA/EU MMO's especially WoW. For the JP, FF has always been #1, tied with Dragon Quest. Basically what I'm saying is the JP client doesn't know any better. Look at the sales of a non JP console system and you'll see my point. Xbox doesn't sell well at all despite all it's hype or games. If you still don't believe me, look over all the complaints of NA members have for FFXI. Stuff like no windowed mode(has Windower now), limited inventory, bad port of a PS2 game, and the list goes on. However, the JP client knew these limitations and accepted them. I don't see how anyone can be surprised a 56k game on 4MB of ram wouldn't be held back in some way.

So you have to ask yourself, are you capable of being limited by PS3 limitations?? If no, then just pass on FFXIV and save your self a headache. I do think the PC interface will be greatly improved. Broadband, Windows 7 patches, Windowed mode, more KB customization, and more.


Just to point out. You need broadband to even use PSN [PS3's online service] so that isn't oing to be a limitation.

And depending on firmware updates, there's every chance that the PS3 can access the internet while in game too. All it takes is a click of the Home button.

It's been rumoured for quite some time that the PS3 will eventually get access to the browser while playing games.

Of course, PC will most likely have better options available to it, but I don't believe the limitations will be as vast as PS2 to PC, considering consoles and PCs are a lot more close to each other this gen.
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#11 Jun 19 2009 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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ScorpionEx wrote:

Just to point out. You need broadband to even use PSN [PS3's online service] so that isn't oing to be a limitation.

And depending on firmware updates, there's every chance that the PS3 can access the internet while in game too. All it takes is a click of the Home button.

It's been rumoured for quite some time that the PS3 will eventually get access to the browser while playing games.

Of course, PC will most likely have better options available to it, but I don't believe the limitations will be as vast as PS2 to PC, considering consoles and PCs are a lot more close to each other this gen.


Right this moment, I would agree with you. Who knows what new form of technology is in the pipeline for next gen. My point was to address that PS3 limitations will compromise FFXIV in certain ways that we don't know yet. Now I believe that SE will fix their mistakes from FFXI's PC launch, but I doubt Windower plug-ins won't be just as common place in FFXIV due to SE's lack of separating PC/PS3 users.

Now from a PS2 to PS3 stand point, I only see good things coming from FFXIV. Broadband, a ton more memory, Internet browser probability. I'm very excited so far and plan to be on ground day 1 on PS3/PC both. If the PS3 version is easier to use due to the more extensive memory and tight play control. PS2 limitations caused blinking and 6 macro lines. Those are 2 of the many reasons I switched to PC.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 12:15am by ShadowedgeFFXI
#12 Jun 19 2009 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
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An interesting read. More interesting, there was no input from female gamers in Japan. And it looked like the youngest person to comment was 24 and most of them were in their 30s. =o It's good to see more people around my age like video games. ^^

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#13 Jun 19 2009 at 9:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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zhinse wrote:
Wow. That's a world of difference between the Western reaction and the japanese reactions.

PrinnyFlute wrote:
Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.

What? They made the exact same comments we did when we initially heard about the game. The EXACT same comments.
Article wrote:
was shocked to hear talk of XIV with XIII not even out yet. Since it's online, I'm curious about the fees. I hope they show us soon.

We were shocked about the announcement of FFXIV before the release of FFXII as well. I know there was a thread asking about the payment model.
Article wrote:
I wonder if service for XI is really going to continue?

We had a thread or post asking what FFXIV meant for FFXI as well, with the consensus that FFXI would of course continue.
Article wrote:
I was so addicted to XI, so I'm sure I'll be giving XIV a try.

That describes a lot of posters here. There are many here who greatly enjoyed FFXI and are looking forward to FFXIV because of that.



We're actually remarkably similar in our reactions.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 12:29am by Allegory
#14 Jun 19 2009 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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PrinnyFlute wrote:
Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.

Most of the responses I've seen anywhere have been positive. Plus, Famitsu is a gaming mag with an interest in maintaining a positive relationship with Square. I doubt you'd have seen much negative feedback even if it did exist.

No need to contort yourself and see cultural differences where they aren't apparent.
#15 Jun 20 2009 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Holy crap. That really shows the difference between them and us. Most random responses here wouldn't be nearly that positive or trusting of SE.



Yes, especially if you never read the actual threads.


Quote:
That's because we use a different standard of measuring. Look at all the complaints or suggestions taken from other NA/EU MMO's especially WoW. For the JP, FF has always been #1, tied with Dragon Quest. Basically what I'm saying is the JP client doesn't know any better. Look at the sales of a non JP console system and you'll see my point. Xbox doesn't sell well at all despite all it's hype or games. If you still don't believe me, look over all the complaints of NA members have for FFXI. Stuff like no windowed mode(has Windower now), limited inventory, bad port of a PS2 game, and the list goes on. However, the JP client knew these limitations and accepted them.


Oh boy, generalizations! Those silly JP just don't know what quality IS, guys. It's like a foreign concept to them. Good thing we're here to show them the light.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 1:25pm by Kirbster
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#16 Jun 20 2009 at 5:09 AM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:

Oh boy, generalizations! Those silly JP just don't know what quality IS, guys. It's like a foreign concept to them. Good thing we're here to show them the light.


Sarcasm is not appreciated Kirb. Everyone should know FFXI was based off the concept of Western MMO's of the time. That being said, there is a huge difference between WoW and FFXI design specs. I have high hopes SE has learned from their failures in FFXI and we'll all have less to gripe about this time around.
#17 Jun 20 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Kirbster wrote:

Oh boy, generalizations! Those silly JP just don't know what quality IS, guys. It's like a foreign concept to them. Good thing we're here to show them the light.


Sarcasm is not appreciated Kirb. Everyone should know FFXI was based off the concept of Western MMO's of the time. That being said, there is a huge difference between WoW and FFXI design specs. I have high hopes SE has learned from their failures in FFXI and we'll all have less to gripe about this time around.


Now that's beautiful sarcasm.
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#18Kirbster, Posted: Jun 20 2009 at 12:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Your mistake is in assuming that people want SE to learn from WoW at all rather than simply past mistakes. Even though it was based off the concept, it was unmistakably Japanese, with several innovations that drew people to the game rather than say, a western style MMO. You are also hilariously incorrect in thinking that the Japanese are apparently unable to complain about FFXI because they just 'don't know any better' (REALLY, dude? REALLY?), which was the basis of my well-deserved sarcasm.
#19 Jun 20 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:


Your mistake is in assuming that people want SE to learn from WoW at all rather than simply past mistakes.


Strangely enough, I have a friend who is a hardcore FFXI player and won't even touch WoW (doesn't like the fact that there are instant cast spells!), who still remarks that he won't play FFXIV unless S-E takes some serious lessons from WoW, and makes the game accessible to players who don't want to dedicate 20+ hours a week to play.


Quote:

Even though it was based off the concept, it was unmistakably Japanese, with several innovations that drew people to the game rather than say, a western style MMO.


FFXI at launch was essentially a watered down version of Everquest. With the addition of advanced jobs, auction houses, and a more advanced plot line, it started to become more unique. Elements like Mog houses, job system, BCNM, etc were a step forward, but FFXI is, at its core, Everquest. Whether that makes it "western" or not, I don't know. Everquest was essentially a graphical version of DikuMUD. Does that make Everquest "only" a MUD?

Quote:
You are also hilariously incorrect in thinking that the Japanese are apparently unable to complain about FFXI because they just 'don't know any better' (REALLY, dude? REALLY?), which was the basis of my well-deserved sarcasm.


I think maybe it isn't a matter of "knowing better" as "having any expectation of something better." As far as console MMOs go, FFXI is probably the best. If your only intention is to play on a console (which is largely the case for JP players) then it doesn't really matter what is available on PC. When I look at games for my GBA, I don't compare them to games for my PS-3. EVen though I obviously know that graphics can get a lot better than what my GBA is capable of, I don't reasonably expect that.

Obviously JP players are not stupid or technologically unsophisticated, but that doesn't mean they have the same relatively high expectations that NA or Euro players do, because NA and Euro players are used to playing MMOs on a PC, where more is possible.

Does this make any sense? I don't think you have to take it as an insult to JP players to realize that they might not have the same level of expectations.
#20 Jun 20 2009 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I was surprised to see that they're mostly older than me. I figured I was kind of on the older end of folks who play these things.

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#21 Jun 20 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
Your mistake is in assuming that people want SE to learn from WoW at all rather than simply past mistakes.

**** him for mistakenly assuming what several posters on this board have explicitly said!
#22 Jun 20 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Kirbster wrote:
Your mistake is in assuming that people want SE to learn from WoW at all rather than simply past mistakes.

**** him for mistakenly assuming what several posters on this board have explicitly said!


A single thread or even forum, isn't really a good sample. I'm pretty sure people don't want a WoW clone, but a refinement of FFXI.

Quote:
FFXI at launch was essentially a watered down version of Everquest. With the addition of advanced jobs, auction houses, and a more advanced plot line, it started to become more unique. Elements like Mog houses, job system, BCNM, etc were a step forward, but FFXI is, at its core, Everquest. Whether that makes it "western" or not, I don't know. Everquest was essentially a graphical version of DikuMUD. Does that make Everquest "only" a MUD?


I never said that it wasn't. What I said is that game became noticeably unique in atmosphere and design, even if it didn't deviate much from EQ-style grinding.
Would you consider Final Fantasy a western RPG series, even if FFI was essentially ripping off D&D?

Quote:
Does this make any sense? I don't think you have to take it as an insult to JP players to realize that they might not have the same level of expectations.


Naturally, and I assumed this was the original intention, but the choice of words and phrases irritated me, and he should be more careful in choosing them.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 2:43pm by Kirbster

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 2:45pm by Kirbster
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#23 Jun 20 2009 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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KarlHungis wrote:

I think maybe it isn't a matter of "knowing better" as "having any expectation of something better." As far as console MMOs go, FFXI is probably the best. If your only intention is to play on a console (which is largely the case for JP players) then it doesn't really matter what is available on PC. When I look at games for my GBA, I don't compare them to games for my PS-3. EVen though I obviously know that graphics can get a lot better than what my GBA is capable of, I don't reasonably expect that.

Obviously JP players are not stupid or technologically unsophisticated, but that doesn't mean they have the same relatively high expectations that NA or Euro players do, because NA and Euro players are used to playing MMOs on a PC, where more is possible.

Does this make any sense? I don't think you have to take it as an insult to JP players to realize that they might not have the same level of expectations.


I couldn't have said it any better Karl. I wasn't suggesting the JP were 'stupid', only as karl points out, they mostly play on the console. Look how long it took SE to release an official Windower. It just wasn't a priority in Japan. FFXI is a very good PS2 console MMO, the best for sure. That doesn't mean SE should just port console games to the PC and call it a day. Now because of the PS3's power, I can easily see a closer experience this time between PC and console users especially if you're playing with a HDMI cable. The 'perks' of PC gamers probably won't be in the PS3 version though. It would be nice if we could submit add-on style interface like 'TP party' or show mob's health percentage on a console.
#24 Jun 20 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
A single thread or even forum, isn't really a good sample.

You're right, but some actual basis beats imagined consensus.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 4:45pm by Allegory
#25 Jun 20 2009 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Call it a hunch, rather than a declaration.
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#26 Jun 20 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
Call it a hunch, rather than a declaration.

That is fine, but just acknowledge that there is some evidence which directly contradicts your hunch and no evidence which directly supports it.
#27 Jun 20 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
and no evidence which directly supports it.


I won't say that, because all you really need to do is take a stroll down to BG and you'll find some. But of course, I can't generalize on a hunch.
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#28 Jun 20 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, this IS a big difference from most of the reactions here. For an example, check out the Gametrailers video about FFXIV getting the "Most Disappointing" award just because its online, and read the comments about how so many people agreed.
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#29 Jun 20 2009 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Kirbster wrote:
Call it a hunch, rather than a declaration.

That is fine, but just acknowledge that there is some evidence which directly contradicts your hunch and no evidence which directly supports it.


Bear in mind, this forum is now populated by FFXI and WoW players.

There's -obviously- going to be people who want SE to learn from WoW, considering they probably played WoW themselves.

On the other hand, I don't see many FFXI players stating that they'd like to see SE go into a direction similar to WoW, while I have seen numerous FFXI players hoping for refinements and advancements that are in key with FFXI.

Having played both extensively [Max level in both] I'm very much against taking FFXIV in a direction similar to WoW. I enjoy WoW, but it's very much a WRPG vs JRPG kind of situation.

I want different things from the different styles of MMO. I don't want FFXIV to be forgetting elements that made me love FFXI, in favor of elements which made me love WoW.

While it would be nice for a "best of both" approach, I can't see it working, as a lot of the elements that made FFXI strong, are directly opposed to what made WoW strong.

It just seems that there'd need to be some form of compromise to follow WoW, and personally, I think they should be sticking to the FFXI side of the coin, considering it's essentially it's successor.
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#30 Jun 20 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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ScorpionEx wrote:
stuff.

That's all fine and dandy. I don't disagree with what you said and neither does it contradict anything I said. Kirbster said there weren't people people who want SE to learn from WoW rather than simply past mistakes, and I corrected him that there were.
#31 Jun 20 2009 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
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I was referring mainly to the general attitude of FFXI players, really, than people in this forum in general. I should have been more clear, as obviously there are WoW players (and others) that want it to be more like WoW.

Scorpion's post is more or less exactly my view on the whole matter, as:

Quote:
While it would be nice for a "best of both" approach, I can't see it working, as a lot of the elements that made FFXI strong, are directly opposed to what made WoW strong.


is really the key point to all of it.

Edited, Jun 20th 2009 5:54pm by Kirbster
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#32 Jun 20 2009 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXIV doesn't have to copy WoW to be successful. What FFXIV must do though is continue to provide causal content like NPC fellows, FoV, and Caskets to cater to all. Cut back on travel times like they have done in FFXI with more warps. Change the claim system on HNM that are botted by cheaters. Release a Windower that doesn't suck and make it available at launch. Introduce easier methods to farm, less emphasis on selling on AH. Very strong counter-measures for RMT off the bat. Allow mobs to walk back to their spawn points instead of depopping into thin air.(Reverse the MPK patch) Vastly improve all forms of crafting, whichever FFXIV decides to do. More instanced battles including events similar to Dynamis for FFXIV. Less of a time sink for events. 2hr max time for any single event. Balance jobs properly and don't release stupid things that serve no purpose. If a particular job is struggling at a certain event, update them to compensate based on how we the players use them.

Jobs:

NIN is not a tank, make sure shadow recasts are over 1min this time. Buff NIN's DD potential like previous games in the series for all mobs, not just XP. Retain Monomi/Tonko/Utsusemi spells and make them exclusive to NIN. Give Shurikens a chance this time complete with throwing damage moves like Sange/Barrage. Keep the price for these tools low enough so people use them.

RDM should be a front-line melee this time around. SE should use their experience with BLU to make it happen early. Don't give us Refresh again, it killed the job.

These are just a few suggestions that if followed will help FFXIV take the crown from WoW.
#33 Jun 20 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
FFXIV doesn't have to copy WoW to be successful. What FFXIV must do though is continue to provide causal content like NPC fellows, FoV, and Caskets to cater to all. Cut back on travel times like they have done in FFXI with more warps. Change the claim system on HNM that are botted by cheaters. Release a Windower that doesn't suck and make it available at launch. Introduce easier methods to farm, less emphasis on selling on AH. Very strong counter-measures for RMT off the bat. Allow mobs to walk back to their spawn points instead of depopping into thin air.(Reverse the MPK patch) Vastly improve all forms of crafting, whichever FFXIV decides to do. More instanced battles including events similar to Dynamis for FFXIV. Less of a time sink for events. 2hr max time for any single event. Balance jobs properly and don't release stupid things that serve no purpose. If a particular job is struggling at a certain event, update them to compensate based on how we the players use them.

Jobs:

NIN is not a tank, make sure shadow recasts are over 1min this time. Buff NIN's DD potential like previous games in the series for all mobs, not just XP. Retain Monomi/Tonko/Utsusemi spells and make them exclusive to NIN. Give Shurikens a chance this time complete with throwing damage moves like Sange/Barrage. Keep the price for these tools low enough so people use them.

RDM should be a front-line melee this time around. SE should use their experience with BLU to make it happen early. Don't give us Refresh again, it killed the job.

These are just a few suggestions that if followed will help FFXIV take the crown from WoW.


I think I would like to be your best friend now. lol
I agree with like... every word you said.

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 12:58am by dragoonberries
#34 Jun 21 2009 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Elmer wrote:
In this week's issue, Famitsu has printed the reactions to the announcement of Final Fantasy XIV at E3. The feature is called ゲームユーザーの意見箱 (Gamer Opinion Box), and this week it contains submissions about some of the exciting presentations we saw this year. Out of their Top 5 news items, Final Fantasy XIV actually ranked #1!

Read the story and see how some Japanese gamers felt about the announcement.


Holy Crap Elmer, you're an Admin now!?!

Congratulations!
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