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Oblivion AI?Follow

#1 Jun 21 2009 at 1:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd love to see more realistic NPCs. Instead of NPCs that do the same routine and don't say anything until you target them and hit Enter or X, that look more like just parts of the scenery than actual people, I'd love to see NPCs talk from noticing me passing by them. Perhaps an invitation to come check out what they have at their shop. Perhaps an announcement from a city official, like Age of Conan had in Tortage City. I'd love to be able to run through an area and hear real conversations between NPCs, and maybe having them actually look at me and wave or something, all with their own actual voices instead of just text. Perhaps a taru could have a cute little taru voice running around and all you hear is "Oh where it could be? Where could it be? Damnitaru!" and you target and engage them and get actual animations and voice acting and find out about the poor Taru's missing scroll. The NPCs could be given a large variety of things to say so it's not even the same thing each time you pass through.

FFXI NPCs were too frigid. Too stiff and lifeless. Without PS2 limitations, I know it can be done, as Oblivion ran on the PS3 easily with this form of AI.

What do you guys think?
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#2 Jun 21 2009 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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I really hope so :)

Although the only problem with this system is, you usually run into hearing the same lines over and over again :P. It does make for more immersive game play though, regardless.
#3 Jun 21 2009 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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With a more powerful engine I don't doubt SE will be making city npcs much more interactive. But heh, I don't know if Oblivion is a good example against stiff and lifeless npcs.
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#4 Jun 21 2009 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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I imagine that the NPCs in FFXIV will probably act such as those in FFXII. Probably more animated in cities and towns, but probably not on real-to-life cycles, etc. (In other words they will probably walk around, etc., but probably won't got to their house and sleep between certain times, etc.)
#5 Jun 21 2009 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
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89 posts
oblivion AI ? Diablo inventory ?

No offence meant or anything, but I'm a kind of glad the people on this forum are not in charge of FFXIV ^~^v

I would like real-time interaction with town folks, but no voice acting either. no voice acting is just personal i geuss.
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#6 Jun 21 2009 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
oblivion AI ? Diablo inventory ?

No offence meant or anything, but I'm a kind of glad the people on this forum are not in charge of FFXIV ^~^v


This made me lol.

If you want Oblivion AI, play Oblivion. If you want Diablo Inventory, play Diablo. If you want FFXIV to be like Fable, play Fable.

Let Final Fantasy XIV be what it is going to be, nuff said. When Final Fantasy XI was in the process of coming out I never saw this much Speculation, we need to tone it down. Let these guys do what they get paid to do, and what they KNOW HOW to do.

SE got this. (I think.)
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#7 Jun 21 2009 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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I think many of us are going to get overhyped like this and be disappointed in the end product, lol.

There will be things we won't like, that's for sure. The devs aren't perfect. Just gotta have to deal with it or not play :D.
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#8 Jun 21 2009 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Oblivion sucked, anyway.
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#9 Jun 22 2009 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Oblivion sucked, anyway.



this.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 4:57am by Akkio
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#10 Jun 22 2009 at 1:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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NPCs who seemed to have lives outside of waiting to give players quests would be a nice minor feature, but I'd much rather the effort be focused elsewhere. There are a lot of ideas that could improve the game slightly, but the ones that take a lot of resources to implement aren't worth considering. It's not that they're bad ideas, but that they aren't cost effective.
#11 Jun 22 2009 at 1:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there needs to be a certain degree of strategy involved in beating monsters, just giving them clever AI would randomize their behaviour taking away any real strategic way to beat them, not so sure that would work well in a MMORPG.
#12 Jun 22 2009 at 1:42 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
NPCs who seemed to have lives outside of waiting to give players quests would be a nice minor feature, but I'd much rather the effort be focused elsewhere. There are a lot of ideas that could improve the game slightly, but the ones that take a lot of resources to implement aren't worth considering. It's not that they're bad ideas, but that they aren't cost effective.


Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume that it'd take a lot of resources to implement, or that it's not cost-effective either? If anything, it'd be a feature that would make FFXIV unique amongst MMOs; NPCs that interact with each other, do their own thing, and even die whether the player is there or not.

Skeptic wrote:
If you want Oblivion AI, play Oblivion. If you want Diablo Inventory, play Diablo. If you want FFXIV to be like Fable, play Fable.


If you want to run around a theme park and hit loot pinatas all day, play WoW. ;)

Seriously though, I'm not too keen on some of the ideas that people have presented, but I haven't once told them to go play another game in the hopes that it'll somehow keep the idea from becoming a part of FFXIV. Is it really so wrong for people to want to play a Final Fantasy MMO that has all of their favorite systems (interface, inventory, combat, NPC, etc.) from both single-player and multi-player games?

Hyanmen wrote:
I think many of us are going to get overhyped like this and be disappointed in the end product, lol.


Yeah, probably. I'm trying to keep my expectations low so that, when the game does come out, I'll either be elated at how overwhelmingly awesome it is, or be so unimpressed that I'll just shrug and go back to playing whatever I happen to be playing at the time.
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#13 Jun 22 2009 at 3:21 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:
Oblivion sucked, anyway.



this.


I know my reply will be totally unrelated, so please forgive me, but it was fun with all the mods and things available for Oblivion to create this character. http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6104/oblivion200906152336237.jpg

Pretty is she not ? ^^

Back on topic, more interactivity is definitely good! An occasional beggar running up to you and.... umm wait, that role's taken by some random players already ^^;
#14 Jun 22 2009 at 3:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Genkineko wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Oblivion sucked, anyway.



this.


I know my reply will be totally unrelated, so please forgive me, but it was fun with all the mods and things available for Oblivion to create this character. http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6104/oblivion200906152336237.jpg

Pretty is she not ? ^^


Not particularly, too skinny and face is a bit manly looking, if you want my honest opinion ^^
#15 Jun 22 2009 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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192 posts
Quote:
NPCs who seemed to have lives outside of waiting to give players quests would be a nice minor feature, but I'd much rather the effort be focused elsewhere. There are a lot of ideas that could improve the game slightly, but the ones that take a lot of resources to implement aren't worth considering. It's not that they're bad ideas, but that they aren't cost effective.


This seems a pertinent quote. Mostly agree.

Though, still, a big part of being professional at game dev is prioritization, so it's not like they'd put this ahead of more important gameplay features. I would appreciate NPC's that behave a bit more like they have real lives.

But if were anything like Oblivion they'd randomly get killed for some reason and then you'd never be able to complete your vital quest, lolololol.
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#16 Jun 22 2009 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, the sarcasm in this thread. I didn't mean an exact 100% copy of Oblivion, but it's the best example of interactive NPCs I could think of. And I think the implementation of it would fit perfectly, and even a sleep cycle would work, as well, as FFXIV will have day/night cycles (assuming that includes cities as well). No one's saying SE should drop everything they're doing to work on more interactive NPCs but that doesn't mean they should avoid it altogether. I mean, let's look at FFXI. Store NPCs are always there, sitting in the same spot all the time, even when the store is closed. They become robots that shout randomly "The store is closed, here are the store hours!" That's completely unrealistic to me. As for catching people on the prowl, think of the mailman in Majora's Mask. He had specific schedules, and you could find him at the post office at certain times sleeping, and other times you could see him making his daily run to all the mailboxes in the town. To those that are completely opposed to the idea, there was already slight implementation of it in FFXI. The little elvaan boy who did his daily walk to Lusiane to give supplies to Taumila's Sundries. In the chat box, you'd see the elvaan boy telling her that he's arrived with the supplies, and her thanking him. Even if there wasn't voice acting, I think there could be a LOT more done in a similar way to that elvaan boy's routine and the interaction between the NPCs, with, of course, major improvements and tweaks.
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R.I.P. My Final Fantasy XI Account forevahz

Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#17 Jun 22 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Quanta wrote:
Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume that it'd take a lot of resources to implement, or that it's not cost-effective either? If anything, it'd be a feature that would make FFXIV unique amongst MMOs; NPCs that interact with each other, do their own thing, and even die whether the player is there or not.

Actually other MMORPGs already do it to an extent. Not enough that it'd be worth adverting, but I definitely notice a few WoW NPCs talking on their own and going about their own activities. It made the game a little better, but there weren't enough NPCs doing it to a significant degree to be worth mentioning.

To spend so much time and effort designing actual character interactions, live for NPCs, when most of the players won't bother noticing it most of the time, yes it is indeed cost ineffective. MMORPGs aren't about role playing anymore, they're power gamer games meant to provide raw gaming content. That is what sells. The RP is a thin veneer meant to dress things up a bit.

Most of the threads here are comments/complaints about issues like group versus solo content, inventory space, class balance, and combat speed. You don't see many threads about RP topics like "How realistic will weapons and armor be? Will my character be able to affect the storyline? Will my character be able to show off his moogle house to other players?"

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 9:13am by Allegory
#18 Jun 22 2009 at 6:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Lol don't feel to bad when it comes to ideas for the game I've probably come up with more then anyone else on this forum. But yet I must agree with the others in trusting that SE knows what it's doing, if they wanted are ideas they would hire us. So coming from me, Yes Me the one who just doesn't seem to stop plopping ideas out like a sick bull with Diarrhea, lets wait and see what SE does.
And if what they do is something we don't like then I guess we don't play the game.
#19 Jun 22 2009 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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At less the npcs in Oblivion actually GO TO BED at night and lock up their shop! Ok...they might look ugly, but we are talking about the NPC AI behavior and it certainly a lot better then FFXI.
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#20 Jun 22 2009 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would like to have a NPC running the same exact path over 6-9 years saying "All quiet on the road to La Theine" seems very real to me! Also the poor poor little boy who runs errands for the slave lady. Poor kid never gets to rest...
#21 Jun 22 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Default
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***** the NPCs, who pays much attention to them, anyway? Won't really have time to follow them around and see what they're doing constantly once I get on FFXIV, will you?
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#22 Jun 22 2009 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
At less the npcs in Oblivion actually GO TO BED at night and lock up their shop! Ok...they might look ugly, but we are talking about the NPC AI behavior and it certainly a lot better then FFXI.


Agreed.
Though it would be annoying waiting for shops to open if you really wanted/needed something I guess. In a game like Oblivion it doesn't matter as you can sleep til morning, if we did that at Inns in XIV it would make everyone be on a different time scale. I guess they could at least have NPCs go home and to bed at night, but have stores 24 hours, if your that fussed about realism they could have shop keeps that swap shifts.
#23 Jun 22 2009 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
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In that case, I want FFXIV to bring back the old "Tents" theme...I wanna be able to hop in my Tent anywhere in the land to just hang out, rest, etc. Still possibility of aggro, but it would be a cool change.
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#24 Jun 22 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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SourMonster wrote:
Quote:
At less the npcs in Oblivion actually GO TO BED at night and lock up their shop! Ok...they might look ugly, but we are talking about the NPC AI behavior and it certainly a lot better then FFXI.


Agreed.
Though it would be annoying waiting for shops to open if you really wanted/needed something I guess. In a game like Oblivion it doesn't matter as you can sleep til morning, if we did that at Inns in XIV it would make everyone be on a different time scale. I guess they could at least have NPCs go home and to bed at night, but have stores 24 hours, if your that fussed about realism they could have shop keeps that swap shifts.


Of cause we are not talking about ALL the shop close for the night (swapping shifts is a nice idea). But seriously, the most used shops in FFXI is the guild shops and they close at night anyways >.> How many times you sit in front of the stupid guild shop waiting for it to open? xD
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等到秋來冬又至,
收拾書包好過年。

#25 Jun 22 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Of cause we are not talking about ALL the shop close for the night (swapping shifts is a nice idea). But seriously, the most used shops in FFXI is the guild shops and they close at night anyways >.> How many times you sit in front of the stupid guild shop waiting for it to open? xD


Or, how about time-based shops?

Example: Potion, scroll, weapons, armor shops open at day time. At night...a couple of black markets (where same items as day time are sold), even a Pub where players can meet up and Linkshells can hang out

Any comments?
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#26 Jun 22 2009 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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It would be nice, but Square Enix knows what they're doing for sure.
Just let them do their thing! If they ***** up, then don't play!
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#27 Jun 22 2009 at 10:34 AM Rating: Default
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I'd hope the purpose of these Threads is to try to prevent SE from making any mistakes on what players want..

Right? ::shrug::
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#28 Jun 22 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I doubt they'd include anything they read about on forums that they also didn't think very well accorded with the game as is and was worth their time. Unlike some companies I trust they won't just go picking random, inexplicable things to add in, heh.
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#29 Jun 22 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Default
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Skeptic wrote:
I'd hope the purpose of these Threads is to try to prevent SE from making any mistakes on what players want..

Right? ::shrug::


I actually hope that SE is ignoring the vast majority of these threads, given the horrible ideas in them. (Not that increased NPC interactivity is a bad idea, but it IS an obvious one.)
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#30 Jun 22 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default
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^^

Ohhhh, you're referring to Manthra and Girlka I hope, lol!
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#31 Jun 22 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Default
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To have the NPC more interactive is a good comment to make. I doubt we will see anything ground breaking though.

Someone mentioned that you will hear the lines said again and again - games that have what is suggested in OP deal with this by only having the voice element spoken to the person concerned (ie. Joe Bloggs next to me doesnt get to hear what the NPC is directing his conversation towards me and vice versa).

I think we got a nod that there will be speaking/voice in FFXIV however I personally believe that this will only be in cutscenes (again not very ground breaking)

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