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/heal and 'eating' discussion.Follow

#1 Jun 21 2009 at 2:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Something I really disliked about FFXI was the /heal and only getting back hp/mp every 10 seconds. It was very slow and te act of seeing your character going into /heal mode and getting out of it took ~3 seconds which felt like an eternity.

If you're trying to move across a zone nothing sucks more than having to stay behind and wait a minute for your casters to regen hp using /heal. No one likes it in ANY mmo. FFXi has not remedied this at all.

They have implemented a mp regen through movement via FFXII. What are your thoughts on it being in FFXIV? Possibly abilities like clear mind would increase the amount gained per movement tick. Hoowever, this would not be sufficient as a form of quick mp recovery.

Other games like wow have food that you eat to quickly fill your mana and health within ~30 seconds from empty. This coupled with passive mana regen allows for healers and caster to clear a few areas and packs before having to stop and rest.


Also, wow does not allow eating and resurrecting while in combat. This enabled boss fights to be more difficult in that if a tank dies you cannot sleep the boss and revive them and continue. Will combat /heal and raise remain the same as in FFXI or do you think SE will change something? Will eating/drinking be implemented or will mp regen through movement suffice?

Are you hapy with the very linear regen provided through /heal and would you be happy seeing it make a return?

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 3:53am by gumpman
#2 Jun 21 2009 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
This is something I've complained about for a LONG TIME.

I agree that the resting system is stupid. It's the reason why refresh became so important. Not only that but the system adds nothing to actual difficulty, it just makes things more and more annoying. I'm not saying they need to copy WoW or whatever and have a system like them, but at least make it so that it does not take an hour to heal.
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#3 Jun 21 2009 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I guess you might not have played since they updated this, but the regen is much faster now. Each tick gives you more HP/MP than the last one. If you're coming out of being weakened for example, I think I would get about 50HP/tick if I had been kneeling the whole time.

But even still it was entirely too slow.

I'm pretty confident that SE will make it so that everyone will be able to have a curative ability "equipped" and that recovery in general won't take nearly as much time.
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#4 Jun 21 2009 at 3:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I was fine with FFXI's healing system, but I do think it ought to be sped up a little, for the sake of magic-users.

Or, as I've mentioned in another thread, make Potions and Ethers much more viable means of HP and MP recovery in addition to /heal.
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#5 Jun 21 2009 at 5:58 AM Rating: Default
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Auto-Regen & Auto-Refresh for every job like WHM & SMN had would be nice, but that's about as much as I'd want unless they really increased the pace of combat. I'll cry if they take stat boosts away from food too.

As for taking away raise during combat... No. You can't sleep most HNM type mobs, and the ones you can sleep build resistance to it fast. Taking away raise is just a cheap way to feign difficulty without actually making the fight rough. I mean, are WoW bosses really so pathetic that your healers need to be gimped? And just think of how boring it would be with random DD's going down causing long drawn out fights.(Hi Cerberus!)
#6 Jun 21 2009 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
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After playing WoW and other games such as Aion, Warhammer and Age of Conan, I really do enjoy the /heal system that FFXI has. I would say that it can be improved, but the entire concept of having to stop dpsing or healing during combat to rest your mana provides a much needed "interesting" and "strategic" aspect to healing and caster dpsing. Both of which are exceedingly lacking in WoW. FFXI gave us Refresh, Ballad, and Evoker's Role combined with extremely small "MP3" abilities such as AutoRegen and AutoRefresh. Items with hHP and hMP on them provide a huge role in FFXI and I hope this continues with a tweak.

The biggest issue with the /heal system and the lack of a "eat or drink this to get to full health/mana quickly" system such as in WoW is that it provides artificial downtime which gamers hate. Aion currently uses a system where you can use a "spell" that requires a reagent to give you a Refresh type state that helps recover mana. Expanding on a system such as this that was only usable outside of combat would be an easy way to remedy the downside of a /heal system. There is a fine line here though. Downtime is a fact of life in any MMO. Without downtime there is no use for having mana or health at all.

Say what you will about how good other games system of Cooking and food buffs are. Compared to the vastly complete and intricate cooking system in FFXI, no other game compares. FFXI's buff foods are an exercise is tradeoffs, which all consumable buffs should be. The "I get +40 stamina from eating this" should just not happen. We see buffs that give str but reduce agi or dexterity. Food buffs that give Int but lower Wisdom. I really hope that the only change we see in XIV's cooking/food system is that we have to sit and actually take the time to eat the item instead of the instant food we get now


As for the fact that you can not eat in combat or rez people in combat in WoW and in some other games out there... Well to put it simply, FFXI and XIV are not WoW. WoW has become a stinking shell of its former self, while FFXI has actually endured quite well over the years because SE has not seen fit to bow down to the casual player. In combat rez actually makes encounters more interesting and challenging in their own way. Rez sickness exists for a reason remember. Its 5 minute duration and the diminishing stat and damage portions to try and stave off the zerg > rez > zerg > rez tactics are good ones. The question though is how boss encounters will be designed within the game. In a Wow like environment where encounters may last an average of 8 minutes, then this in and of itself should be enough to discourage. In an FFXI environment where bosses can last anywhere from 5minutes to hours then rez sickness provides a much needed avenue of strategy that WoW lacks.

Edit: WoW that zam sig is OLD...

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 8:19pm by niwaar
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#7 Jun 21 2009 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
I really hope that the only change we see in XIV's cooking/food system is that we have to sit and actually take the time to eat the item instead of the instant food we get now


So lets see

let's say 6 player party is all eating food. Player 1 eats at say 0:00 and his food lasts a full hour, but players 2 and 3 eat 6 minutes later and their food lasts for 30 minutes, but the healers food only lasts for 15 minutes and he eats it 2 minutes after that.

Then you have to stop the party, eat the food, and get back up several times during a party at several staggered points. If 1 member has a one hour food, 2 have half hour foods, and the other 3 have 15 minute foods, and food takes say 30 seconds to eat.. that's like eight an a half minutes of downtime per hour if players don't eat at the same time.

But I have no complaints about the food system in FFXI, or the crafting system other then the rewards not meeting up to the work given. FFXI has one of the best crafting systems I've seen in any game MMO or not.

Quote:
The question though is how boss encounters will be designed within the game. In a Wow like environment where encounters may last an average of 8 minutes, then this in and of itself should be enough to discourage. In an FFXI environment where bosses can last anywhere from 5minutes to hours then rez sickness provides a much needed avenue of strategy that WoW lacks
.

There's quite a few bosses in WoW that take a while to kill. (WoW also has A LOT of bosses) I don't find it needed to make bosses that take like 3 hours to kill, quite honestly that's not really fun. But I don't know enough of FFXI end game to really make a comparison between the two.

Still the best strategy in any game is... not to die. However, in several encounters I found in WoW dying was quite easy to do, and maybe in unavoidable in a lot of cases which is why something like a rez sicnkess would be too much of a burden. I'm not sure in FFXI if people simply died left and right on boss fights though, but I'm guessing it was more controlled as far as that goes. (Also in WoW only Druids had combat rezzes and it was on a half hour cooldown. Most raids only had at the most 4 druids in their party and one of them was probably a back up tank)
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#8 Jun 21 2009 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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I'm a big fan of the food system WoW has. Eating it increases your regen, and you're rewarded for taking the physical time to eat it by getting a food buff. I think cooking is a big deal in FFXI and it'll be a big deal in FFXIV. In addition, I'd love to see some form of passive hp/mp regen, so you don't have to sit to eat that often.

Honestly, in WoW, I ate because I needed the buff. FFXI provides the kind of atmosphere where if I could, I'd sit down with a bunch of friends/guildies while we're not doing anything in a pub or something and watch our characters eat while we all talk in the LS. I hope FFXIV portrays the social aspect of sitting down and having a **** meal.
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