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#1 Jun 21 2009 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
Something that had occurred to me...

In FFXI I don't remember you being able to enter the water, or swim, or anything like that. I mean do you think FFXIV should add things like island and stuff where you need to swim, or maybe like go underwater for things? I know most people HATE anything to do with water in a game... but I think it gives for new content and new items or whatever. It's not really a big change, but it would be kind of cool to have like maybe underwater cities or like mobs or something.. other than floating pugils which somehow survive on the sand.

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#2 Jun 21 2009 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Going underwater always feels clumsy in every mmo i've played.
#3 Jun 21 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would love underwater, and personal boats for fishing, maybe some islands with treasures...

Undersea treasures...

Would be an awesome treasure hunting experience for a casual gamer...
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#4 Jun 21 2009 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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I'd love to see some underwater scenery with the new Crystal Tools engine. FFXI is still a pretty game (even though the graphics are showing their age).
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#5 Jun 21 2009 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like it in a regular game, but don't know if i would in an mmo. Its just certain things that work in single player games that would be hard to make work in an mmo. Like a whole party fighting underwater, just doesn't seem right to me. I see what your talking about, like how come sea isnt like underwater, but I just think its very hard to make it work and work well in an mmo.
#6 Jun 21 2009 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe in a submarine. Not interested in going for a dip though.
#7 Jun 21 2009 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
Another thing is it also adds for like underwater boss fights. I found from what I know of FFXI enviorment was not a big thing as far as Bosses go. In most games, even MMOs, there is very little to do underwater. But it's there and you can always use it to add to the experience. Like there could be a sunken ship or something for a quest, or poor timmy or someone droped their watch or something in the ocean...
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#8 Jun 21 2009 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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In WoW, I always found fighting underwater to be very difficult. I hope we are not allowed to swim, I always had a hard time with depth perception underwater in WoW. I like that in FFXI we sank. I would love to sink in FFXIV, and they could definately expand the areas you could go underwater, it could basically be an underwater world.
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#9 Jun 21 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think fighting is underwater is a good idea...

I don't even think that going fully underwater is a good idea also, unless it's made with some restrictions as of having no equipment on to be able to swim, to have a time limit underwater without going up to get some air, maybe like I said earlier for treasure hunting...

As in being able to go down swimming for some seconds and find a treasure chest which you can open and find stuff inside, or maybe some materials, like a kind of coral for a special armor, more like a harvesting underwater... lol, keep dreaming...
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#10 Jun 21 2009 at 8:53 PM Rating: Default
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Personally, I don't see this working very well as it is a tad bit unrealistic going into the water with full koenig gear on and swimming quite easily.

If anything, it would be nice to go atleast waist deep into the water, like you can in this game already but add small details like running a bit slower, and have your equipment from the waist down be wet like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune if anyone has ever played that game. Small details like that would more than make up for it.

Then again, gotta think about the tarus...
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#11 Jun 21 2009 at 9:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Personally, I don't see this working very well as it is a tad bit unrealistic going into the water with full koenig gear on and swimming quite easily.


The problem is if I wanted to have a realistic game I'm not sure I'd play something like Final Fantasy. There's a of stuff that is "not realistic" in video games.. but that's ok because it's supposed to be an escape from reality or something to enjoy. It's the same thing when people say "Why do you play guitar hero... learn guitar yourself" but in the end guitar hero is just fun and it's not a real question of it being realistic or not.
#12 Jun 21 2009 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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Even in WoW.. where swimming and underwater fighting is possible... the developers decided it was mostly a waste of time and didn't make much in the game that ever required the underwater battles possible.

Now flying fights on the other hand... that's cool and pretty much the same principle, but faster.

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#13 Jun 21 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Kudos on the title of this Thread, lol.

This idea is ehhhh, you have to take into consideration how they would work out using some abilities/spells WHILE you are submerged/in water. EX: Flee, Resting (HP/MP), Teleport, Warp, etc.

I'm pretttyyy sure SE will not go this route. Decent concept, though.

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#14 Jun 21 2009 at 10:30 PM Rating: Default
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While swiming can be fun for a little bit I always felt that combat was way to clunky while in water(refering to WoW). I hope that they do not implement it in FFXIV.
#15 Jun 21 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
combat underwater is ridiculous..

I agree that maybe there should be areas where one could wade and dive for pearls or something.. more as a minigame than anything.
#16 Jun 21 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Like Davila said, maybe implement water into a harvesting type of thing but no combat?
#17 Jun 21 2009 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
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There's Fishing.
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#18 Jun 21 2009 at 11:22 PM Rating: Default
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Was thinking more along the lines of Noodling. =P

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 12:22am by Phatsac
#19 Jun 22 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

If anything, it would be nice to go atleast waist deep into the water, like you can in this game already but add small details like running a bit slower, and have your equipment from the waist down be wet like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune if anyone has ever played that game. Small details like that would more than make up for it.


That would be awesome, but in the trailer, the fighting scene that is supposed to run under the game engine, the fighers don't seem wet although there's a hard rain going on. However, the squid like creatures are soaked. Maybe because they are coming out from the water? Who knows, only time will tell us.
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#20 Jun 22 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Quote:
If anything, it would be nice to go atleast waist deep into the water, like you can in this game already but add small details like running a bit slower, and have your equipment from the waist down be wet like Uncharted: Drake's Fortune if anyone has ever played that game. Small details like that would more than make up for it.



That would be awesome, but in the trailer, the fighting scene that is supposed to run under the game engine, the fighers don't seem wet although there's a hard rain going on. However, the squid like creatures are soaked. Maybe because they are coming out from the water? Who knows, only time will tell us.


i think this much details is still impossible in an "Massively multiplayer online role-playing game".
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#21 Jun 22 2009 at 4:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't mind being able to walk into the water or swim a bit (without gear, just for fun) but no fights in the water or something like that.

But I like the idea of underwater areas. Maybe caverns or sunken ruins protected from the water by a magic shield and to get there you either walk down through tunnels or by using some sort of diving bell.
Would be a nice experience to see the fish swimming above your head and a welcome addition to the usual areas.
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#22 Jun 22 2009 at 5:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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EpedemicOptikz wrote:
Personally, I don't see this working very well as it is a tad bit unrealistic going into the water with full koenig gear on and swimming quite easily.

Blitzball would like a word with you.
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#23 Jun 22 2009 at 5:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Blitzball would like a word with you.


Does that mean if we have water areas in FFXIV we get more metal songs from Uematsu?
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#24 Jun 22 2009 at 5:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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PrinnyFlute wrote:
Does that mean if we have water areas in FFXIV we get more metal songs from Uematsu?

*shrug* Didn't an interview say that the world in FFXIV was going to be technologically similar to FFX?

:O

What if they actually added drownball blitzball as a new type of PvP in FFXIV...

D:
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#25 Jun 22 2009 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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ppl can swim in real life so swimming is realistic
ff characters are strong enough to go killing gods and legendary monsters..swimming with a bit of armor on wont be a problem >.> ..just half serious here
#26 Jun 22 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why do people keep bring up "realism" when talking about simple or cosmetic features in video games?

I got an idea to expand on all the innovation of motion controls and such and making games more realistic; lets release a console with a built in cardio life support system and electrical clamps you hook to yourself. No longer will you take unrealistic risks as pain becomes real and IF U DIE N TEH GAEM U DIE 4 REEL.

Better hope you have a 1-up if you want that life support system to kick in.

We'll call it the Flatline.
#27 Jun 22 2009 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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Nerio wrote:
ppl can swim in real life so swimming is realistic
ff characters are strong enough to go killing gods and legendary monsters..swimming with a bit of armor on wont be a problem >.> ..just half serious here

If we are playing the realistic game here then water would rust most armor thus would deteriorate making your armor useless!
#28 Jun 22 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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I for one would welcome swimming, not sure why people say underwater combat is harder.. I think that's kinda the point, it's SUPPOSED to be harder dude you're out of your element. I don't remember it being particuarly hard in wow, and I had a few underwater quests that were really fun, plus there's the cool exploration thing, being able to swim over to a remote island or explore a hidden shipwreck. As for partying, well all you really need is a water breathing pot that lasts an hour or something and you can all pwn away without going up for air every few seconds.

Alternatively you could have some really cool boss fights underwater where they made air supply an issue. Like mid fight you'd have to go for air. I made a diagram of this gameplay mechanic, but bear in mind it is terribly complex -

http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/2/22569-85842-sonicbmp-468x.jpg

.. and is it just my browser or does the img tag not work?

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 11:02am by godmademedoit
#29 Jun 22 2009 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I personally think that swimming is fine just doing a paddling at the top but keep it at that, don't make it underwater but it always just looks horrible. The animations for casting underwater are always the same as casting on land(at least in all other MMOs I've played)
#30 Jun 22 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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Litie wrote:

The problem is if I wanted to have a realistic game I'm not sure I'd play something like Final Fantasy. There's a of stuff that is "not realistic" in video games.. but that's ok because it's supposed to be an escape from reality or something to enjoy. It's the same thing when people say "Why do you play guitar hero... learn guitar yourself" but in the end guitar hero is just fun and it's not a real question of it being realistic or not.


Well, you do have a point. I was mainly thinking along the lines that actually "swimming" in this game just wouldn't look right. I guess I should have said that instead. I don't know, I guess I just look at how characters swim in WoW and FFX. But hey, it really is up to the developers with what they do.


Akkio wrote:

That would be awesome, but in the trailer, the fighting scene that is supposed to run under the game engine, the fighers don't seem wet although there's a hard rain going on. However, the squid like creatures are soaked. Maybe because they are coming out from the water? Who knows, only time will tell us.

Quote:
i think this much details is still impossible in an "Massively multiplayer online role-playing game".


Yeah, it is unfortunate that I didn't see the other characters as wet with hard rain but oh well, hopefully the gameplay will heavily make up for the lack of detail.

It shouldn't be impossible at this point in time. If SE really wanted to make a big step up from FFXI, they should add small details like this that make people appreciate the game even more. Crysis and Uncharted 2 both came out in 2006(I think, you can shoot me if I'm wrong ;) ), so 3 years down the road there aren't many games that compete with Crysis, since it is up to the developer on how they do things. These things are possible, it's just are their development team strong enough for it?

Karelyn wrote:

Blitzball would like a word with you.


Crap, I forgot about blitzball. XD
Well, it doesn't change my opinion that even blitzball is unrealistic. Seriously, doing soccer kicks underwater making the ball go extremely fast into a goal? I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the strength that FF characters are supposed to have. You know how hard it is to kick a ball underwater and have it move at least 2 feet?

I guess I'm just a sucker for a tad bit more realism and small details. Small details make me appreciate a game much more seeing hard work going into something small like battle damage.

Sorry for long quote madness.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 11:12am by EpedemicOptikz
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#31 Jun 22 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I personally think that swimming is fine just doing a paddling at the top but keep it at that, don't make it underwater but it always just looks horrible. The animations for casting underwater are always the same as casting on land(at least in all other MMOs I've played)


This is what I'd like, preferably with something similar to Thief's AF grapling quest.(No armor/weapons equipped) It would open up a lot more room for exploration, give extra depth to the world & all that.
#32 Jun 22 2009 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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Karelyn wrote:

*shrug* Didn't an interview say that the world in FFXIV was going to be technologically similar to FFX?

:O

What if they actually added drownball blitzball as a new type of PvP in FFXIV...

D:


I thought they said XII. I'm not sure. >>

Well, as shameful as it is I'd probably get more enjoyment out of it than regular PvP. <<;
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#33 Jun 22 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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A sports minigame would be quite enjoyable, at least to me. Variety is the spice of life.
#34 Jun 22 2009 at 8:50 AM Rating: Default
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Can we get wet, now? =X


I thought Pirate attacks was a cool water-based ship thing in FFXI, I'd like to see some Airship attacks this time around if they even decide to put Airships in the game. And if boats remain, maybe a more different attack, like a giant Kraken that can't even enter the boat (arms would grab the boat), he'll just keep the Boat hostage until you can beat him/time runs out.

::Puts on Speedo::

W00t?

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 12:51pm by Skeptic
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#35 Jun 22 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
A sports minigame would be quite enjoyable, at least to me. Variety is the spice of life.


Quite! The more fun things they add to accentuate the core experience, the better. Of course, that stuff comes after all the important stuff...
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#36 Jun 22 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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My imagination runs wild when I think of what could be possible.

I imagine myself walking down a beach digging in the sand for bits and pieces of useful shells for crafting or something and as I'm walking down I notice something sparkle in the shallow waters.

At first I pay no attention to it and go about my business, but as I look up I see something sparkle again. So me being the crazy and curious type I jump in the water and swim out.

What I see is a big rainbow colored fish and I think to myself this must be a rare type. As I swim closer the fish suddenly turns around, nothing special, just looks like a normal fish. I get closer still and then in an instant I see the fish's mouth open wide to reveal a large set of razor sharp fangs.

In a fit of panic I whip out my sword and engage in some underwater fight with the fish, the battle is hard but in the end I just barely win. I receive a handful of rainbow fish scales and head back to town dreaming of what kinda riches these scales will bring.

When arriving in town I run to the first merchant I see and proudly drop the scales on the table with my chest out and my head high.

The merchant gives me a curious look and says, "What?". I proudly point to the scales. "Ok..?" the merchant replys, "I assume you want some Gil for those?" He reaches into his pocket and drops a whole five Gil on the table.

The merchant notices the now confused look on my face reaches down under his stall to pull out a simple brown box. He promptly opens it to reveal bounty of rainbow scales. "Yeah.." he says, "You crazy low ranked adventures for some reason always jump into the waters to fight those things."

"You should really consider renting a small boat and fishing line.." he continues, "makes catching them rainbow trout a lot easier and they don't bite as much."

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 1:38pm by CupDeNoodles
#37 Jun 22 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default
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Do you realize how crowded a beach "zone" would be if you did something like put craft items on the floor for anyone to pick up? RMT Heaven, congrats!


Like I said earlier, pretty sure none of this will happen. Always good to dream, though.
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#38 Jun 22 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Do you realize how crowded a beach "zone" would be if you did something like put craft items on the floor for anyone to pick up? RMT Heaven, congrats!


Probably no more crowded then a mining "zone".
#39 Jun 22 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Firstly, topic title FTW.

Secondly, I don't think I'd like underwater swimming in XIV, reason being I hate that in WoW fire spells work underwater and also I find it kinda clumsy looking. Don't get me wrong I think they could make underwater environments look gorgeous in XIV, but I just dunno about the swimming animations.

I guess at the most I'd like to be able to swim across the surface of bodies of water. They'd have to make some kinda limit though so you don't spend hours swimming out to sea n get lost.

At the least, let us be able to wade through waist deep water...then again as someone mentioned above, gotta think about those taru...
#40Skeptic, Posted: Jun 22 2009 at 10:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just picture all the GM calls noobs would be sending with the title "OMFG HELP I AM STUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WATERZ SOMWHERE I DUNNO WHERZ I WAS SWIMMING FOR THIS NM AND I GOT LOST OMG HELP PLZZZ GM".
#41 Jun 22 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Default
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I can see traveling across water (swimming) being allowed, but not necessarily an essential of travel. maybe an entrance to a zone/cave is underwater, but that's about it.

Also, allowing swimming takes away another way for SE to mark where players are and aren't allowed to go. cliffs/mountains/shorlines help dictate where "playable" areas are. By allowing swimming you are going to have to introduce everyone's favorite invisi-walls somewhere out in the ocean.
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#42 Jun 22 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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good story Lol i would like to be able to swim aswell. it allways fun to get lost and now in the middle of the ocean while it's storming, 20 feet waves and knowing there's more fearfull creatures lurking around then just some pugils. Lol /linkshell ( "OMFG HELP I AM STUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WATERZ SOMWHERE I DUNNO WHERZ I WAS SWIMMING FOR THIS NM AND I GOT LOST OMG HELP PLZZZ.im at <pos> ".) thats better O.*


Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 2:24pm by StrifeJS
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#43Skeptic, Posted: Jun 22 2009 at 10:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Boats belong in Water. Not people.
#44 Jun 22 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Who cares about realistic stuff; let our characters frigging walk on water!
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#45 Jun 22 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
At the least, let us be able to wade through waist deep water...then again as someone mentioned above, gotta think about those taru...


Just have the taru 'swim' it where others wade through it. Different animation, gets the character across the water all the same.
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#46Skeptic, Posted: Jun 22 2009 at 10:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) With a /**** emote.
#47 Jun 22 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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Just have the taru 'swim' it where others wade through it. Different animation, gets the character across the water all the same.


taru can breathe underwater, as proven by my taru friend who /healed on the beach in the dunes. Completely submersed, and still regaining HP/MP.
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#48 Jun 22 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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taru can breathe underwater, as proven by my taru friend who /healed on the beach in the dunes. Completely submersed, and still regaining HP/MP.


So they'd just walk along the bottom like a little beady-eyed anchor?
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#49 Jun 22 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I really hope they incorporate underwater mechanics some way in XIV. Yes a lot of times they are kinda clunky (although in WoW I didn't think it was to bad), but at the very least you can open up some really cool possibilities with it. Like you learn of a sunken ship from someone in town (that could be half submerged up on a reef or something), which you go into to find an NM guarding a chest or you could apply the same concept to an underwater cavern. I really would like to see zones that you could only get to by swimming to them.

As far as underwater fighting I know its a bit far fetched but maybe spells like gravity could take a role that would make you walk on the sea floor as if you were walking on land out of the water. I suppose you would just have to make the version you cast on yourself to be able to clear the buff away the same way you do in XI. Like I said pretty far fetched but would be pretty cool. If nothing else the ability to explore underwater and especially reach certain area/zones from there is something I hope to see.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 3:01pm by Ipwnrice
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#50 Jun 22 2009 at 12:03 PM Rating: Default
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As far as underwater fighting I know its a bit far fetched but maybe spells like gravity could take a role that would make you walk on the sea floor as if you were walking on land out of the water.


Agreed, well said.
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#51 Jun 22 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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/cast Thundaga III <Sea Monk>

Buckingham was defeated by the Buckingham
Randompugtank was defeated by the Buckingham
Randomdd was defeated by the Buckingham
Randomdd was defeated by the Buckingham
Randomdd was defeated by the Buckingham
Randomhealer was defeated by the Buckingham

Only if that can happen! :)
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