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PC question: Gaming network card.Follow

#1 Jun 21 2009 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
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So like a few others, I'll be getting a new PC before XIV comes out. I'm not locking in anything just yet (waiting for Windows 7 to come out at least), but I've been looking at some options and pricing things out. I don't really know **** about computers other than how to use them. I've just been putting things together on dell.com, etc., and I came across something I did not know existed... a gaming network card.

From the "click for more info":
Quote:
The Killer NICTM K1 Gaming Network Card is the only high-performance network card built specifically to improve online gaming performance. Featuring Lag and Latency Reduction Technology (LLRTM ), the Killer NIC K1 Gaming Network Card delivers smoother, more responsive gameplay than a typical NIC during intense action, and a competitive edge in all your favorite MMO and FPS games.

* Dedicated Network Processing Unit (NPU)
Designed to offload all network processing to the NPU, freeing up vital CPU resources to boost average frame-rates and smooth game play.

* Direct Game Hardware Interrupts
Bypasses the Windows® Network Stack to transfer packets directly to/from the game. This helps speed up game loop execution to improve game responsiveness and frame-rates.

* Hardware Bandwidth Control
Fine-tune your network traffic for each application by setting bandwidth priorities and max/min limits through a simple interface.

* Hardware Firewall
Helps stop intruders with zero gaming performance impact. Based on robust Linux iptable implementation.

* Runs In-Game Applications Directly on the Card
Helps provide higher gaming performance while multitasking, with applications that run directly on the card's NPU. Run Bit Torrent, Game Patcher, FTP and more while gaming with zero performance impact.

* Plug-&-Play compatibility with all online games
Works with all online games to help improve performance without game modifications.


So basically, it sounds like pay and extra $140 to reduce lag and maybe not get kicked from the server quite as often. Is this about right?

Anyone who knows a lot about computers have any insight to offer about such products? Worthwhile?

While we're at it... any big advantage to liquid cooling over fans? At the least, it seems like it would keep dust out of the box.

Gracias, muchachos. Vaya con dios.
#2 Jun 21 2009 at 9:21 PM Rating: Default
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EbenezerSpooge wrote:
So like a few others, I'll be getting a new PC before XIV comes out. I'm not locking in anything just yet (waiting for Windows 7 to come out at least), but I've been looking at some options and pricing things out. I don't really know **** about computers other than how to use them. I've just been putting things together on dell.com, etc., and I came across something I did not know existed... a gaming network card.

From the "click for more info":
Quote:
The Killer NICTM K1 Gaming Network Card is the only high-performance network card built specifically to improve online gaming performance. Featuring Lag and Latency Reduction Technology (LLRTM ), the Killer NIC K1 Gaming Network Card delivers smoother, more responsive gameplay than a typical NIC during intense action, and a competitive edge in all your favorite MMO and FPS games.

* Dedicated Network Processing Unit (NPU)
Designed to offload all network processing to the NPU, freeing up vital CPU resources to boost average frame-rates and smooth game play.

* Direct Game Hardware Interrupts
Bypasses the Windows® Network Stack to transfer packets directly to/from the game. This helps speed up game loop execution to improve game responsiveness and frame-rates.

* Hardware Bandwidth Control
Fine-tune your network traffic for each application by setting bandwidth priorities and max/min limits through a simple interface.

* Hardware Firewall
Helps stop intruders with zero gaming performance impact. Based on robust Linux iptable implementation.

* Runs In-Game Applications Directly on the Card
Helps provide higher gaming performance while multitasking, with applications that run directly on the card's NPU. Run Bit Torrent, Game Patcher, FTP and more while gaming with zero performance impact.

* Plug-&-Play compatibility with all online games
Works with all online games to help improve performance without game modifications.


So basically, it sounds like pay and extra $140 to reduce lag and maybe not get kicked from the server quite as often. Is this about right?

Anyone who knows a lot about computers have any insight to offer about such products? Worthwhile?

While we're at it... any big advantage to liquid cooling over fans? At the least, it seems like it would keep dust out of the box.

Gracias, muchachos. Vaya con dios.


It all depends what your ISP connection is really. If you have a Gigabit connection to your home then it might be have "some" use, but people usually don’t have that. A normal LAN connection is often 100 Megabit or if you have Cable or ADSL it’s about 24-50 Mbit. So if I would be you I would defiantly not waste that $140 on that network adapter.
#3 Jun 21 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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It's a waste of money.

As for liquid cooling, it's a pretty moderate increase over air cooling, but unless you're running a small inferno, it's not necessary.

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 10:41pm by Kirbster
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#4 Jun 21 2009 at 9:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kirbster wrote:
It's a waste of money.


This.

Honestly, if you are feeling a bit adventurous I would goto newegg and build your own rig. That Gaming card sound like a checkbox that makes them $140 in profit selling a bogus piece of hardware with Dell networking software "optimizing". Build your own machine! You will quickly find that you have control over not just every piece of hardware you put in your case, but also the price. Dell is not in the business to sell you a rig with the latest and greatest for an affordable price, it's plan as many others is to compartmentalize an entire system very cheap and sell it to you for a ton of money.

When you build your own machine you can also rest assured that you will not fall behind having to goto Dell.com in 5 years and purchase another one of their rigs. Simply upgrade slowly here and there with you own rig.

There are plenty of guides on how to build your own rig. Its not that hard and Newegg will be kind to you if you do end up making a mistake, which you mostly likely will.

I would suggest going to Sharkyextreme, Anandtech, Tom's Hardware etc and reading the monthly PC Building guides that follow 3 different tiers of PC budget setups (Low end, Middle end and High end).

You have PLENTY of time to research and slowly build your new rig the way YOU want it to be. One trick with Newegg.com or any other site like it, is set your search based on customer reviews and look very carefully at what others are using in their posted setups. That makes it easy not to make a mistake, such as the wrong CPU fan with a certain Case or what Mem timings worked best for them etc.

Just as a personal guideline. I go with Lian Li for my cases, AMD for my CPU's, eVGA for my video cards and Asus for my Motherboards. No sense in going bleeding edge with FFXVI, but you want it to be affordable, fast and reliable at the same time.

I would also wait to see exactly what the specs are going to be for FFXVI. For instance what Open GL / Direct X standard will they be using, which shaders are going to be supported, will it be 64 bit compatible, does it utilize Quad Core threading etc etc?

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 12:51am by patient
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#5 Jun 21 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Good
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patient wrote:
does it utilize Quad Core threading etc etc?


If it does not I am going to be ****** beyond belief.
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#6 Jun 21 2009 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
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haha.

"gaming-network-card"

i lol'd :'>
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#7 Jun 22 2009 at 1:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's called Great Advertising, people fall for it because its flashy and highlights some pretty much pointless features;

On average, networking takes up about <1% of the CPU time. Won't help with lag unless you play on a 1.2Ghz Celeron maybe?

It takes around a Milisecond for Windows to process any network I/O.

Bandwidth control can be achieved through a free piece of software if I'm not mistaken.

Running p2p apps with dramatically decrease your latency because of your ISP, enocoureging you to use them is a little stupid really

All in all it is a complete waste, please don't.
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#8 Jun 22 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Maldavian wrote:

It all depends what your ISP connection is really. If you have a Gigabit connection to your home then it might be have "some" use, but people usually don’t have that. A normal LAN connection is often 100 Megabit or if you have Cable or ADSL it’s about 24-50 Mbit. So if I would be you I would defiantly not waste that $140 on that network adapter.


wow, where do you live? I want 100 Megabit connection. XD
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#9 Jun 22 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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He said a LAN is 100 megabit, aka the connection from your network card to your modem or router.

He's saying that even if your NIC is 100 megabit, you're actual connection will be much slower, the bottleneck being the ISP in most cases.

Where I am in Canada, I have about a 10meg, which is pretty good for here.
#10 Jun 22 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
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EpedemicOptikz wrote:
Maldavian wrote:

It all depends what your ISP connection is really. If you have a Gigabit connection to your home then it might be have "some" use, but people usually don’t have that. A normal LAN connection is often 100 Megabit or if you have Cable or ADSL it’s about 24-50 Mbit. So if I would be you I would defiantly not waste that $140 on that network adapter.


wow, where do you live? I want 100 Megabit connection. XD


We have a local"city network" where I live in Sweden and my speed is 100Mbit Up/down within Scandinavia, basically northern Europe. But my ISP have capped the speed I can get from the rest of the world outside Scandinavia to 60Mbit Download / 30Mbit Upload.

Ps. I have also free transferrates, meaning unlimit download and upload data.
The cost for this service is $50 USD / month.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 2:04pm by Maldavian
#11 Jun 22 2009 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We have a local"city network" where I live in Sweden and my speed is 100Mbit Up/down within Scandinavia, basically northern Europe. But my ISP have capped the speed I can get from the rest of the world outside Scandinavia to 60Mbit Download / 30Mbit Upload.

Ps. I have also free transferrates, meaning unlimit download and upload data.
The cost for this service is $50 USD / month.


That is so crazy. In the US I pay $50 a month for a 10 meg connection. USA is so behind times.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 2:23pm by jakarai
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#12 Jun 22 2009 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the tips and direction to resources. Hopefully, I can find a good guide and figure all this stuff out. My current computer is ~dieing~, so it would be pleasing if there is some more info about game specs before I'm in a pinch.
#13 Jun 22 2009 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
Personally looking at getting a system just for FFXIV and discussing what to get now is a waste of time.
If you are getting a new system get it just before the release when all the advice you just got may well be out of date, we don't even know if FFXIV will come out in 2010 at all, these things do get delayed, and its SE so it may not be out till 2012 XD
Myself I will prolly buy a PS3 next spring for FF XIII and just use that, will be a lot cheaper for me.
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#14 Jun 23 2009 at 4:14 AM Rating: Good
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There are ways to beef up your internet connection, depending on which connection you actually have and how technical your ISP is.

If you use ADSL, your ISP can turn interleaving off which will help with ping times, in some cases quite dramatically. If your ISP does traffic managment, they can stick a profile onto games, so games have #1 priority whilst things like streaming/downloading/usenet/torrents are given much lower priority, again improving gaming experience.

Windows 7 (and Vista) re-wrote their networking stack, making it a lot more efficient when it comes to networking.

Buying a much better high quality router (if available) can also help out, if you want to get really technical though, buy a Cisco, though that is overkill for most home users and Netgear etc. are generally a safer choice, rather than using the cheapest possible bit of kit your ISP sends you.

Of course if you live in Hong Kong you may need to do more, they offer 1Gb ethernet connections there so maybe with those sort of speeds you may invest in faster kit.
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#15 Jun 23 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Personally looking at getting a system just for FFXIV and discussing what to get now is a waste of time.
If you are getting a new system get it just before the release when all the advice you just got may well be out of date, we don't even know if FFXIV will come out in 2010 at all, these things do get delayed, and its SE so it may not be out till 2012 XD
Myself I will prolly buy a PS3 next spring for FF XIII and just use that, will be a lot cheaper for me.


Definitely agree. I am considering getting a new PC for FFXIV, but I am not even going to look at components until I hear a definite release date. The prices for what I could get now will be lower and there will be better hardware available.

As for a gaming network card, I wouldn't get it, at least for a game like FFXIV. Maybe if you were an avid FPS gamer competing in tournaments, and a split second can mean the difference between the victory or defeat of your team. That tiny advantage can mean a big difference. But in FFXIV? I wouldn't.

About being kicked from the server...this is something I have very very very rarely experienced in any MMORPG unless it is server-wide. Perhaps only three or four times in my life time have I been booted from a server unless it's the entire server.
That is with a DSL connection, and at other times, a cable connection (no PowerBoost or whatever options the company offers).

So I wouldn't rely on a gaming card to help with that.
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#16 Jun 23 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
patient wrote:
does it utilize Quad Core threading etc etc?

If it does not I am going to be ****** beyond belief.


I wouldn't hold your breath.

As long as it supports dual core, the decrease in performance of the quad should be minimal.
#17 Jun 23 2009 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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EbenezerSpooge wrote:
So like a few others, I'll be getting a new PC before XIV comes out. I'm not locking in anything just yet (waiting for Windows 7 to come out at least), but I've been looking at some options and pricing things out. I don't really know **** about computers other than how to use them. I've just been putting things together on dell.com, etc., and I came across something I did not know existed... a gaming network card.

From the "click for more info":
Quote:
The Killer NICTM K1 Gaming Network Card is the only high-performance network card built specifically to improve online gaming performance. Featuring Lag and Latency Reduction Technology (LLRTM ), the Killer NIC K1 Gaming Network Card delivers smoother, more responsive gameplay than a typical NIC during intense action, and a competitive edge in all your favorite MMO and FPS games.

* Dedicated Network Processing Unit (NPU)
Designed to offload all network processing to the NPU, freeing up vital CPU resources to boost average frame-rates and smooth game play.

* Direct Game Hardware Interrupts
Bypasses the Windows® Network Stack to transfer packets directly to/from the game. This helps speed up game loop execution to improve game responsiveness and frame-rates.

* Hardware Bandwidth Control
Fine-tune your network traffic for each application by setting bandwidth priorities and max/min limits through a simple interface.

* Hardware Firewall
Helps stop intruders with zero gaming performance impact. Based on robust Linux iptable implementation.

* Runs In-Game Applications Directly on the Card
Helps provide higher gaming performance while multitasking, with applications that run directly on the card's NPU. Run Bit Torrent, Game Patcher, FTP and more while gaming with zero performance impact.

* Plug-&-Play compatibility with all online games
Works with all online games to help improve performance without game modifications.


So basically, it sounds like pay and extra $140 to reduce lag and maybe not get kicked from the server quite as often. Is this about right?

Anyone who knows a lot about computers have any insight to offer about such products? Worthwhile?

While we're at it... any big advantage to liquid cooling over fans? At the least, it seems like it would keep dust out of the box.

Gracias, muchachos. Vaya con dios.


this is not new in fact it been out for a while, if your computer has already a gigbit network built in you really would'nt need this which most computer now a days have now.

I have a pc with a realteck gigabit pci-E and it runs more then find with a cisco linksys routers, which i highly recommend always for gaming. stay away from netgear they tend to be flimsy, port forwarding suck on them and they tend to loose connection a lot.
#18 Jun 24 2009 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
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gaiaxzero wrote:
I have a pc with a realteck gigabit pci-E and it runs more then find with a cisco linksys routers, which i highly recommend always for gaming. stay away from netgear they tend to be flimsy, port forwarding suck on them and they tend to loose connection a lot.


I've used Netgear for years without any issues, they are one of the few routers out there that can maintain a connection at close to 0 SNR, whilst most routers, in fact the vast majority of routers, would fall over and die trying to make a connection. Their most popular router (DG834G) runs embedded Linux/busybox, and by turning on the debug you get access to cli.

I've only just had to replace it after 6 years of sterling performance, they also have a wonderful habit of synching to the exchange at a rather high rate.
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#19 Jun 24 2009 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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gaiaxzero wrote:
I have a pc with a realteck gigabit pci-E and it runs more then find with a cisco linksys routers, which i highly recommend always for gaming. stay away from netgear they tend to be flimsy, port forwarding suck on them and they tend to loose connection a lot.


It's funny that you would mention Linksys since I have had those exact same problems with three different Linksys routers. I went through three different Linksys routers in less then two months due to constant connection loss, having to do a hard reset at least twice a week every week and having to reset the wireless password every time I try connecting my laptop. Not to mention various other problems.

The Netgear I picked up about three months ago has had to have a hard reset once (which I think had something to do with comcast and not the router itself) I have two wired PCs, a wireless Wii, wireless 360 and two wireless Zunes and none of them have had any connection issues whatsoever. I also have Netflix and I stream movies wireless to the 360 with no issues. I also have no noticeable latency increase when playing WoW or LoTRO with the Netgear router I'm using.
#20 Jun 25 2009 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Mate best thing to do if you not 100% sure but know what you semi want it to do is have a look around for sites that let u full custom your pc

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Processor Extreme Edition i7-975 (3.33GHz) 6.4GTs/8MB Cache
Memory (RAM)
12GB CORSAIR XMS3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (6x2GB)
Motherboard
ASUS® P6T DELUXE V2: DDR3, 2-Way SLI & CrossFireX on Demand
Operating System
Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate with SP1, 64-bit, CD & Licence (£135)
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1.5TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
1.5TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st CD/DVD Drive
22x DUAL LAYER LIGHTSCRIBE DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RA
2nd CD/DVD Drive
6x BLU-RAY WRITER & HD-DVD ROM DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW (£125)
Graphics Card
1792MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX295 PCI EXPRESS
2nd Graphics Card
1792MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX295 PCI EXPRESS
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)D
Network Facilities
2 x WIRELESS N 300Mbps PCI CARDS (ONE SPARE FOR OTHER PC) (£32)
Case
COOLERMASTER COSMOS S BLACK ALUMINIUM CASE
Power Supply & Case Cooling
1500W Thermaltake Toughpower Modular + 120mm Case Fan (Due 27/07/09)(£209)
Processor Cooling
COOLIT DOMINO A.L.C. CPU LIQUID COOLER (£69)
Monitor
24 Inch Wide TFT Silver/Black 1920 x1080 8MS D-Sub, DVI (£169)
2nd Monitor
24 Inch Wide TFT Silver/Black 1920 x1080 8MS D-Sub, DVI (£169)
Keyboard & Mouse
Logitech® G15 Gaming Keyboard with Backlit LCD Display (£59)
Mouse
Logitech® G9 Corded Laser Gaming Mouse (£42)
Speakers
LOGITECH S220 2.1 SILVER/BLACK SPEAKER SYSTEM (£16)

set me back about 3k GBP this will be more then enough to run ffxiv im sure you dont have to go mad just i wanted something super don't know if your from the UK or Europe but i got mine from http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk
#21 Jun 25 2009 at 5:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I had a pretty good idea at what I'd see when I came in here when I read the thread title, as others have said, pretty much a waste of money.

I hope SE goes for a quad core setup or at least makes it that quad core really boosts performance. I built my current PC and I'll build my next one but I'm not even looking at parts until next Summer. No reason to really, prices will keep falling and so on.
#22 Jun 25 2009 at 10:18 PM Rating: Default
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Raolan wrote:
gaiaxzero wrote:
I have a pc with a realteck gigabit pci-E and it runs more then find with a cisco linksys routers, which i highly recommend always for gaming. stay away from netgear they tend to be flimsy, port forwarding suck on them and they tend to loose connection a lot.


It's funny that you would mention Linksys since I have had those exact same problems with three different Linksys routers. I went through three different Linksys routers in less then two months due to constant connection loss, having to do a hard reset at least twice a week every week and having to reset the wireless password every time I try connecting my laptop. Not to mention various other problems.

The Netgear I picked up about three months ago has had to have a hard reset once (which I think had something to do with comcast and not the router itself) I have two wired PCs, a wireless Wii, wireless 360 and two wireless Zunes and none of them have had any connection issues whatsoever. I also have Netflix and I stream movies wireless to the 360 with no issues. I also have no noticeable latency increase when playing WoW or LoTRO with the Netgear router I'm using.


I had those issues but with netgear routers, with linksys i never had a problem. When i use to use netgear i use to port forwards ffxi and always notice that the UI, always kept reseting my ports, one day it works, one day it did'nt, next day it disappeared, and latency always drop, i had three netgears, and at the beginning they work fine, after a few months they started malfunctioning.

When i had switch back to linksys, portforwarding, latency, was always working. the UI never reseted, and my speed was always at 28meg, with net gear i use to hit below 20 meg around 19 or so, in addition i was constantly cut off since every netgear i had, had the tendency to reboot for no reason, connection lost was minimum, but enough to keep disrupting my games. and personally netgear gui suck ***.
#23 Jun 25 2009 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Notice there's only one company making these "gaming" network cards? Don't you think there would be significant competition if they actually did anything? From every review I've seen, they lower or even raise ping by a few ms depending on the game... usually the amount is impact is within the margin of error or the **** test. They do nothing. Spend your money on a better cpu/gpu or more memory, which will actually make a difference.

Even if they did anything at all for fast-twitch FPS=type games, they'd still be useless for FFXI, because everyone outside of Japan lags like fuck on that game, but it doesn't matter because nothing requires fast reactions. Most of the lag is from SE's poor coding, not the actual network.
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