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Of Manthras and GirlkasFollow

#1 Jun 21 2009 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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An article I've written for a blog I'm with. I'm cross-posting about the article here, as I thought it was rather relevant to discussions, and I don't believe I've seen a thread solely dedicated to both Mithra and Galka and their roles/futures as gender-limited races. Discussions on one, or on races altogether, sure, but.

The entire article is here:
"Final Fantasy XIV Thoughts: Of Manthras and Girlkas"

Quote:
Of Manthras and Girlkas

One of the hot topics burning up message boards is on playable races new and old. The old, in particular, being Mithra and Galka in this case: It’s already been revealed that races from Final Fantasy XI will be returning, just for familiarity’s sake, but there’s some rumbling from players that these races should be due for a change.

The reason being that in Final Fantasy XI these races were gender limited: the path of the graceful cat was reserved for women, and the way of the bulky, bull-like Galka was solely for the men in the crowd. While this provided personality for the game, many players also felt like they’d been robbed of choices. Where were the man-cats? Where were the strong women?


Thoughts on Manthras and Girlkas, in specific? On gender-limited races as an idea? On the article?

I laid it out pretty thoroughly with some simple reasons backing it up, but I'm looking forward to manthras and girlkas. I know the girlkas are entirely less likely, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. All in all, I don't think the flavor that comes from gender-limited races is really worth limiting the flavor of players in creating characters they can connect with.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 1:35am by PrinnyFlute
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#2 Jun 21 2009 at 10:51 PM Rating: Default
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I think the Race choices for FFXI were perfect, and I am sure they will be just as perfect in FFXIV. If they remain with the same Races and provide more Customization, then I think we'll all be fine.

I can't speak too much on why they wouldn't make a Manthra because I am not sure of what they will be calling their Races in FFXIV. If Mithra remains Mithra, then I wouldn't expect a Male character because their Race's story is based on an all Female Race.

Galka females wouldn't happen either if the Races stay the same because all Galka bone themselves.


Won't know until we get MORE INFORMATION.
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#3 Jun 21 2009 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
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Very good writeup indeed. What I'd like to point out (something very minor mind you, I'm just nitpicking) is that through various side quests, and what Lehko has said and hinted at, is that the Male Mithra's are plenty adventurous, they just have not come to the "middle lands" or vana diel as we know it. Only certain tribes of Female Mithra made their way to Elshimo, and the windurstian regions. From what I've gathered, the Male Mithra, are plentiful and adventurous as the women, in the far off lands. They are rare, for these mithra tribes we know of, but back in their homeland, and on other continents they are more common, from what I've gathered.

I like your writeup though, and totally support it. I hate gender specific races. Things need to be equal across the board, if a girl wants to be more masculine and tough, why can't she be? They need the option. And if a guy wants to be more feminine, and agile like, why can he not be? Your article was spot on when it said "Some people chose a character because they didn't have another option" which is what I faced when I started FFXI as well. People need the option to be who they want to be and how they want to be it.

Also, be sure and check my blog in my signature, I did a writeup about Male Mithra in FFXIV as well, and has some of my thoughts there on the subject.

Edited, Jun 21st 2009 11:54pm by EndlessJourney
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#4 Jun 21 2009 at 10:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Female Galka was difficult for me to imagine at first.. But then I realized they don't have to be huge she-hulks.. They can be plenty more feminine and still retain Galka specific features.
#5 Jun 21 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Skeptic wrote:
I think the Race choices for FFXI were perfect, and I am sure they will be just as perfect in FFXIV. If they remain with the same Races and provide more Customization, then I think we'll all be fine.

I can't speak too much on why they wouldn't make a Manthra because I am not sure of what they will be calling their Races in FFXIV. If Mithra remains Mithra, then I wouldn't expect a Male character because their Race's story is based on an all Female Race.

Galka females wouldn't happen either if the Races stay the same because all Galka bone themselves.


Won't know until we get MORE INFORMATION.


FFXIV is not FFXI. Please read the interviews. I hate having to explain this over and over but...

The developers said, that while the races will appear similar, they will not be exactly the same, or have the same storylines. Also, the developers have wanted to implement more choices, customization, options, and even things like Male Mithra because of such a huge demand there is for it. But in FFXI it is more or less too late and they are unable to make some changes (while I still think personally they could introduce male mithra, it could offset some things).

In FFXIV they will be able to explore their creative abilities more and give us more options, they've said they wanted to do this themselves many times over. When you look at things like little hints in the artwork, which Square Enix even admits to putting in on purpose, and you look at the demand, and how easily something can be implemented in a new game, as well as the negatives and downsides of not adding something, and the positives OF adding them, you can rest assured (while not guaranteed) that they will most likely be taking advantage of these options and expanding their horizons.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 12:02am by EndlessJourney
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#6 Jun 21 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

FFXIV is not FFXI. Please read the interviews. I hate having to explain this over and over but...


If you read my post thoroughly you'd realize that I said "IF" they use the same Races, which they've already basically said they will be with just a different look.

And since FFXIV will not be FFXI, stop asking for Manthra and Female Galka, then?
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#7 Jun 21 2009 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Skeptic wrote:
...Won't know until we get MORE INFORMATION.


I don't imagine they'd keep similar backstories for the reappearing races when the world seems to be changing quite a lot, but there's still the chance I suppose.

I addressed a few of those things in the article, though. More choices, the better.

In any case, the article and this post are about discussing two features we'd like to see in FFXIV and somewhat gender-limited races as a topic in MMORPGs as a whole. I think there's room for that discussion, as long as it's entertaining.

EndlessJourney wrote:
Very good writeup indeed. What I'd like to point out (something very minor mind you, I'm just nitpicking) is that through various side quests, and what Lehko has said and hinted at, is that the Male Mithra's are plenty adventurous, they just have not come to the "middle lands" or vana diel as we know it.


Thanks a bunch! I've been to your blog a few times, actually. I'd comment on it if I had a Blogspot account. ;) It was a fun read! I think we're in accord on a few ideas, really.

I was aware of the Mithra thing to a degree... I just sort of summed it up in the article poorly, sorry. It's kind of even lamer to think that all them Manthra are out in the world and we can't even pick 'em.

I think it is pretty disappointing when you have to choose second best, though, yeah. Funny thing, my least favorite thing about WoW was that I couldn't create a male character I liked that didn't look like he escaped from an episode of HeMan. Of course, we fell out of it for other reasons too, but. I also settled in FFXI on a Elvaan. He wasn't so bad, but I never particularly felt that great about it.

Momotaru wrote:
Female Galka was difficult for me to imagine at first.. But then I realized they don't have to be huge she-hulks.. They can be plenty more feminine and still retain Galka specific features.


Yeah, I know it's a bit weird at first, but there are ways of doing it. In the article I linked to a picture by Fred Perry of his thoughts on female Galka, and he makes them look pretty **** cool!

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#8 Jun 21 2009 at 11:52 PM Rating: Decent
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PrinnyFlute wrote:

Thanks a bunch! I've been to your blog a few times, actually. I'd comment on it if I had a Blogspot account. ;) It was a fun read! I think we're in accord on a few ideas, really.

I was aware of the Mithra thing to a degree... I just sort of summed it up in the article poorly, sorry. It's kind of even lamer to think that all them Manthra are out in the world and we can't even pick 'em.

I think it is pretty disappointing when you have to choose second best, though, yeah. Funny thing, my least favorite thing about WoW was that I couldn't create a male character I liked that didn't look like he escaped from an episode of HeMan. Of course, we fell out of it for other reasons too, but. I also settled in FFXI on a Elvaan. He wasn't so bad, but I never particularly felt that great about it.




Yay! Happy to know you've been there, I enjoy your blog very much myself, and yes I indeed think your writeup was very good. I honestly kept nodding my head IRL thinking "This person knows what it's about!".

And yes, your summery wasn't that far off, I was just nitpicking. You got the point across very good though, probably better than I could have. And yeah, isn't it lame to know they are out there, and one is even in the story, but we can't play as them?! I know many many people share this disappointment with us, including the Developers themselves. I'm sure they are itching at the chance to expand in this the right way.

And yeah, when I played World of Warcraft, I experienced the same problem. All the guy characters, were very masculine, bulky, and built up. FFXI is not as bad about this, but has the same situation to a lesser degree. As we both said before, people are different, and people want to be able to express their personality better. In the real world, I'm a lot more feminine than most guys, and I honestly like that about myself, if some one likes being big and bulky and built up, more power to them! Whether it be girl, or guy, be yourself, that's the greatest thing in the world. And people need the options available to them to express this in their character.
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#9 Jun 22 2009 at 12:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks again, lol!

I'm sure the devs have spent some time looking at everything that's out there and we'll get something above-the-bar in terms of customization this time around. :)

I know just what you mean, though. One of my biggest concerns for any MMO I get into is that I can create a character that I'll connect with and want to see grow. Well, it's a concern for everyone, really. It just varies in how much or little a player will mind. I usually like going for a standard looking guy, maybe with a little bit of "warrior prince" in there; almost went Hume in XI, but man. The only hairstyles I liked were pretty generic. Still, again, I'm looking forward to more in XIV. Just wondering..how much more? There better be some armor dyeing action, too!
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#10 Jun 22 2009 at 2:57 AM Rating: Good
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I prefer to call them Gal-kas. GET IT?!
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#11 Jun 22 2009 at 3:17 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I prefer to call them Gal-kas. GET IT?!


I think we might already be friends without knowing it yet.
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#12 Jun 22 2009 at 4:49 AM Rating: Good
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<---- Would happily play a Girlka.

Momotaru wrote:
Female Galka was difficult for me to imagine at first.. But then I realized they don't have to be huge she-hulks.. They can be plenty more feminine and still retain Galka specific features.

Something like a DnD Half-Orc

Able to picture it now?

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 8:54am by Karelyn
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#13 Jun 22 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Something like a DnD Half-Orc

Able to picture it now?


I'm a huge fan of the aforementioned Fred Perry sketch.

But you never know what they could do.
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#14 Jun 22 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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That was a real good read, rate up for you! ^.^

I love your section on female Galka, til I read that I've been like meh I wouldn't wanna see one, as you said I kinda just imagined a male Galka with boobs n makeup hehe. That sketch is awesome though, I wouldn't mind playing as a Girlka if they looked like that. I guess no matter how (well if) Squeenix make them look it'll be a nice addition to the races.
#15 Jun 22 2009 at 9:36 AM Rating: Default
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I would not want to see a Male Mithra or a Female Galka, I think the Races in FFXI were perfect, and since FFXIV is borrowing from this game, I don't think the Races have to make any changes, at all.


That's been my point this whole time.

Aren't there more important things to discuss about FFXIV instead of Male Cats and Female Wookies? lol
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#16 Jun 22 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah but even so they have said races will have differences. That could mean gender too. We already know the new Galka have no tails...(shame I kinda liked the turtle tails)
#17 Jun 22 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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PrinnyFlute wrote:
Quote:
Something like a DnD Half-Orc

Able to picture it now?


I'm a huge fan of the aforementioned Fred Perry sketch.

But you never know what they could do.

Somewhere between the two really.

I think Fred Perry drew the female Galka too thin and human proportioned. But then again, that isn't really a big deal considering he also drew the male Galka in that drawing somewhere closer to a body building human than a Galka.

When I think of Galkas, I sorta think of a Dwarves that is taller than humans instead of shorter than humans.
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#18 Jun 22 2009 at 9:42 AM Rating: Default
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The new Galka doesn't have a tail because it's a GIRLKA!!!!!!1111

Let the Thread begin!
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#19 Jun 22 2009 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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Skeptic wrote:
I would not want to see a Male Mithra or a Female Galka, I think the Races in FFXI were perfect, and since FFXIV is borrowing from this game, I don't think the Races have to make any changes, at all.


That's been my point this whole time.

Aren't there more important things to discuss about FFXIV instead of Male Cats and Female Wookies? lol


More important things than people liking their characters and enjoying the game? Lol I guess those are pretty pointless, eh?

I mean, any good reason why you don't think people who want to play those shouldn't be allowed to besides "FFXI was fine?" If you read the article, I made my case for the ups (using established archetypes to build world flavor) and the downs (limiting actual player flavor, forcing some players to choose 'second bests', telling players that they essentially can't be cat-like males or strong females). Whatchu got?

I'm hoping they patch up the loose ends of the Mithra and Galka and add another new race or two to boot.

SourMonster wrote:
That was a real good read, rate up for you! ^.^

I love your section on female Galka, til I read that I've been like meh I wouldn't wanna see one, as you said I kinda just imagined a male Galka with boobs n makeup hehe. That sketch is awesome though, I wouldn't mind playing as a Girlka if they looked like that. I guess no matter how (well if) Squeenix make them look it'll be a nice addition to the races.


Thanks! :3 Yeah, I think there's a lot of different, good looking ways that girlkas could go, especially with the fantastic concept artists they have at SquareEnix. I'm not going to hold my breath, though. Here's hoping if they don't announce some femme Galkas that there's a new race cool enough to fill the gap. ;)
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#20 Jun 22 2009 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm calling it now. There will be male Mithra types and female Galka types. The only way I see this not happening is if they already have the back stories to these races planned out already but if Square listened at all throughout FFXI's life span they know that a lot of the player base desires these.
#21 Jun 22 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Default
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So in that case all the servers/worlds will be packed with Male Mithra and Female Galka...since those are the only two races people are really speaking of.


I can't wait for the Speculation to end.

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#22 Jun 22 2009 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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Come no one said everyone from XI wants to be Girlka or Manthra.

I'll prolly end up sticking with Mithra myself, but thats not to say I wouldn't like to at least see them in the game. I'm really curious to see what a Girlka would look like.
#23 Jun 22 2009 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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They're the only two people are speaking of because they're the only two that there's really a strong question of whether or not they'll be acknowledged.

People who are gonna pick Hume, Elvaan, Taru, or female Mithra or male Galka don't exactly have anything to speculate on, do they?

And besides, what the **** is wrong with speculation. Especially, you know, the reasonable kind?
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#24 Jun 22 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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I was extremely disappointed with the lack of a female Galka in FFXI. As a woman who has historically played Dwarves, Half-Orcs, and WoW Taurens, the lack of any race where the females were strong, made me sad. My class of choice? Barbarians, Blacksmiths, Warriors, Berserkers, the whole gambit of brutal melee fun. Especially of the tanking type.

I wound up playing a Hume Female, but I wasn't exactly happy with it; I don't play an MMO/TabletopRPG to be a human. Ultimately, the lack of a race I could really enjoy roleplaying as, was one of the major contributing factors for me leaving FFXI.

One of the things I like best about roleplaying, is that in a fantasy world, I can be as strong as I wanna be.
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#25 Jun 22 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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I could see an male mithra being added, with a new female only race to combat with the galka male only race. The Gria race (one with horns in the picture), is a female only race so it could go with the galka being a male only race. I do not see them adding female galkas, not because of the storyline (they will be different and probally won't even be called galkas), but because of the appearance. I believe in the picture shows a male looking mithra and the gria (female only) race. This would even it out, all the races have male and female except galka male only and gria female only.
#26Skeptic, Posted: Jun 22 2009 at 10:07 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) In this case I demand Kimahri's race to be playable in FFXIV.
#27 Jun 22 2009 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In this case I demand Kimahri's race to be playable in FFXIV.


Good luck. Bit more of a stretch than these others, but. Maybe by some strange decision male Mithra will turn out like the Ronso. That wouldn't be so bad.

Quote:

One of the things I like best about roleplaying, is that in a fantasy world, I can be as strong as I wanna be.


If there are indeed teh Galka femmes up and about, I'll be sure to have one as an alt or...well, something. They just seem like they'd be too interesting not to spread the love.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 1:19pm by PrinnyFlute
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#28 Jun 22 2009 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default
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It's not like anyone is going to NOT pick up the game because there isn't boy cats and girlwookies in there.


...right?
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#29 Jun 22 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Skeptic wrote:
It's not like anyone is going to NOT pick up the game because there isn't boy cats and girlwookies in there.


...right?


Well, you really can never tell! Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I'll be picking it most likely whether they implement those or not, but then I'll be picking it up unless they fail a pretty high number of things on my wish list (a number of which are just "Make this aspect at least as good as other modern MMO's"). I mean, heck, they could just make it "FFXI+: Only updated to fit in with modern player expectations" and I'd pick it up anyway.

Of course, character attachment affects every player regardless of whether they acknowledge it or not, and players who're "meh" with their remaining choices will probably have a harder time staying interested in character growth and will leave sooner than they would've otherwise.

Having an avatar you like is kind of important when you'll be parading around as it for months, if not years.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 1:33pm by PrinnyFlute
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#30 Jun 22 2009 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
If only SE were brave enough to not put in humans as a playable race, probably not a wise financial choice to them, but I never play humans if I can avoid it.
Male and female "cat people" (not mithras) seem to be certain which is good. Female "the big race" (not galka)could easily be in but I doubt would prove popular unless they were seen to be physically attractive, in FFXI female Elvaan were not too popular if you look at the census (censi?) over the years.
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#31 Jun 22 2009 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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Skeptic, please just shut up.

I mean that in the nicest way possible.
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#32 Jun 22 2009 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
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I believe the lack of female Galkas derived from a misunderstanding of the races by the player base; Elvaan were the male-only species, and those mistakenly referred to as "female Elvaans" were, in fact, "girlkas".
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#33 Jun 23 2009 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I personally can definitely see Male mithra in FFXIV, and I would most certainly be one.

I always imagined a Manthra's NPC personality to be very adventurous and flirtatious; very Zidane-esque(he even has a tail!), I think that would be a great fit.

Though, I may have just been playing FFIX too much lately
#34 Jun 23 2009 at 3:31 AM Rating: Decent
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This is a hot topic? Not discussion on the combat system? Not character advancement? Itemization? THIS?
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#35 Jun 23 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is a hot topic? Not discussion on the combat system? Not character advancement? Itemization? THIS?


Yuh.
#36 Jun 23 2009 at 7:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
This is a hot topic? Not discussion on the combat system? Not character advancement? Itemization? THIS?


It might've been a little bit of an exaggeration, but there were more arguments about it going on when I started writing the post. It simmered in draft-state for a while.

But, yeah, those are also obviously "hot topics" if you've been looking around the forums any amount of time. There are lots of other threads full of those issues and discussions on them, so it's not exactly like this is disproportionately larger in boisterous forum goers than those topics. This is just about one (two technically) features some people are hoping for and for discussion on the implications of gender-limited races in MMORPGs in general.

So, hey, if you're not interested, whatever. There are lots of threads for more central gameplay speculation out there.

mezzura wrote:
I personally can definitely see Male mithra in FFXIV, and I would most certainly be one.

I always imagined a Manthra's NPC personality to be very adventurous and flirtatious; very Zidane-esque(he even has a tail!), I think that would be a great fit.

Though, I may have just been playing FFIX too much lately


That'd be pretty a pretty badass characterization. Also wouldn't mind some Mithra Balthiers running around, heh.



Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 10:17am by PrinnyFlute
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#37 Jun 23 2009 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
This is a hot topic? Not discussion on the combat system? Not character advancement? Itemization? THIS?


If you think about it, it isn't really all that surprising. The most information we really got from SE right now pertains to player races, that is, that they will be reincarnated from FFXI. Speculation on whether that reincarnation will include both sexes for once single *** choices is only natural.

Speculation on character advancement and itemization are just shots in the dark. it's like trying to guess what the name of the main antagonist will be (I'm going to go with Facraffoalon)

Quote:

Also wouldn't mind some Mithra Balthiers running around, heh.

also this.


Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 12:47pm by Bardalicious
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#38 Jun 23 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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PrinnyFlute wrote:
the implications of gender-limited races in MMORPGs in general.

I've always found the implications to be dangerously along the lines of the MMO developer officially supporting sexism.

One MMO in particular, freaked me out recently, Perfect World. In that game, ONLY males could be good tanks. A female tank would be significantly inferior, due to not having access to the strong tank class.

That really made me extremely uncomfortable. The implications were nothing good.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 3:10pm by Karelyn
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#39 Jun 23 2009 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I've always found the implications to be dangerously along the lines of the MMO developer officially supporting sexism.

One MMO in particular, freaked me out recently, Perfect World. In that game, ONLY males could be good tanks, and ONLY females could be good healers. A female tank or male healer, would be significantly inferior.

That really made me extremely uncomfortable. The implications were nothing good.


Wow, it really was a perfect world.

Juuuuuuuust kidding!

But seriously, I don't think FF is supporting sexism by not supplying a gender-specific option to a race or just because the male-only race was bulky/muscley and the female race was slender and agile. I guess it's leaning toward stereotypical, but definitely not to the point of pure, ignorant discrimination. However, next time they introduce an asexual race into the mix, I do believe the race shouldn't look masculine OR feminine, but clearly... asexual. Lean, wirey, toned, and without gender.

edit - I'd just like to note that I'm in favor of both, the male mithra and the female galka.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 3:12pm by Kharmageddon
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#40 Jun 23 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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Kharmageddon wrote:
But seriously, I don't think FF is supporting sexism by not supplying a gender-specific option to a race or just because the male-only race was bulky/muscley and the female race was slender and agile. I guess it's leaning toward stereotypical, but definitely not to the point of pure, ignorant discrimination. However, next time they introduce an asexual race into the mix, I do believe the race shouldn't look masculine OR feminine, but clearly... asexual. Lean, wirey, toned, and without gender.

I don't think Square was deliberate sexism, and probably not really sexist at all, but DEFINITELY stereotyping. An actual assexual race would be neat though, considering the heavy androgyny in many FF characters, it wouldn't feel out of place.

... Perfect World on the other hand... that was pretty **** blatant sexism. But not entirely surprising considering current chinese culture. It's one of those things that reminds you that the real world is a lot uglier than we see most of the time.

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#41 Jun 23 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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Bardalicious wrote:
Speculation on whether that reincarnation will include both sexes for once single *** choices is only natural.

Speculation on character advancement and itemization are just shots in the dark. it's like trying to guess what the name of the main antagonist will be (I'm going to go with Facraffoalon)


True; the manthra/girlka thing is pretty much a yes/no situation that's based on information we already have. We've seen Mithra and Galka in the one video we have already, and there's something some people think is a manthra in the concept painting on the website. And people have been asking "where are the cat doods" since early in FFXI's life-cycle. So it's hardly unfounded and not like people don't care.

And yes, not only are speculation on vital gameplay systems right now a shot in the dark, for the most part they're honestly like apples and oranges, especially when we know so little. The quality of systems like these are more in underlying, psychological game design and implementation and not so much picking the right parts in the basic layout stage. So while a materia system with dynamic skill strength would be awesome, pretty much anything that those experienced professionals do for these systems would be highly polished and probably play very well. It's fun to speculate, obviously, and nothing wrong with it, but there's a million-and-one ways those vital systems could go. That's the main reason, in any case, why I'm not personally speculating on those things much.

Where on the contrary, we've got a very simple yes/no question on our hands that SquareEnix is very assuredly quite aware of after years of rumbling about it during FFXI. To boot, it's also such an easy, simple message that in the 99.9% unlikely event that some Square reps browse the intarwebs just a little bit, all they have to report back to base is "ppl want manthra/girlka". The fact that it's such a simple message to spread means it's one of the few player suggestions that could actually make it somewhere.

And, c'mon. It matters to a decent percentage of the playerbase, and that should be enough to make it a topic of discussion. ****, I know multiple people IRL alone that complained that they couldn't play male Mithra. And yes, it does matter; just about every single player in the entire world is affected by character attachment, and it subtly affects every player's entire play experience whether they admit it or not. It's the same manner of basic psychology used in both game design and professional visual design.

It matters, and if you're saying to yourself, "How character creation and customization goes has no effect on me whatsoever; as long as the gameplay is good I will like the game exactly the same" then you're pretty much lying to yourself.

Karelyn wrote:

I've always found the implications to be dangerously along the lines of the MMO developer officially supporting sexism.

One MMO in particular, freaked me out recently, Perfect World. In that game, ONLY males could be good tanks. A female tank would be significantly inferior, due to not having access to the strong tank class.

That really made me extremely uncomfortable. The implications were nothing good.


I guess Perfect World thinks girls should stay in the back and heal and make pies, right? :/ It brings to mind female characters being a gil cheaper in FFT. Oh, man.

I'd agree that you wouldn't call Square's handling purposefully sexist; but when something reinforces stereotypes it still technically is. Especially when the party doing the faux pas isn't aware of it. I do feel like that's half the issue here, not so much "fixing" (not counting that Perfect World thing, that's messed up) things but at least spreading awareness.

And I do feel like the concept of gender limited races could be considered more subversive than normal issues in this category; whereas usually a fantasy story will simply show us gender stereotypes face first, in the case of gender limitations on players, there's a direct message of "This is how males should be and how females should be, and we're not allowing you these other options. This is directly affecting your identity".

An asexual race, especially an alien or Zora-like one, would be badass. I can think of lots of people with very mild, non-gender charged personalities who would make the perfect player representitives. ;)

Edited, Jun 23rd 2009 5:00pm by PrinnyFlute
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#42 Jun 24 2009 at 2:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Male characters being stronger than female characters and female characters being more agile than male characters is pretty sexist, because as we all know this is totally untrue (lol).

With the possibility of "Manthras and Girlkas" in FFXIV, all that I think that's missing is a Perez Hilton race... just to make sure no one gets left out. =P
#43 Jun 24 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
all that I think that's missing is a Perez Hilton race...

no.

just no.
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#44 Jun 24 2009 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jaikeman wrote:
Male characters being stronger than female characters and female characters being more agile than male characters is pretty sexist, because as we all know this is totally untrue (lol).


No dude, telling people that they aren't allowed to be themselves and they have to act and live the way other people tell them to isn't harmful or sexist or anything, you're just overreacting.

And besides, it's not like those differences between the sexes aren't actually social constructs that are blown way out of proportion from their arguable natural state. Speaking of the natural way of things, it's a **** good thing we don't wear pants! "Teh naturez!" all the way!

Jaikeman wrote:
With the possibility of "Manthras and Girlkas" in FFXIV, all that I think that's missing is a Perez Hilton race... just to make sure no one gets left out. =P


Dear god why.


Edited, Jun 24th 2009 1:14pm by PrinnyFlute
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#45 Jan 23 2010 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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My thought is that Girlkas should be very small, like Taru size.
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#46 Jan 23 2010 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Since I've yet to see anyone making word-play off of the races' new names to indicate the player behind the character is of a different gender than the character itself, I will take the opportunity to do so now.

Roegadyn --> Roegadettes
Miquo'te --> Manquo'te

Now that we have names for them we can start calling them by their names in the new game rather than the old.

That being said, and given the desire for deviating from a stereotypical archetype, how do we know that masculine women or feminine men won't be possible using some facet of the character editor? If we can edit how large the muscles are and have some ability to modify the face, who's to say we won't be able to make females built like battle hardened linebackers or males that look better suited to walking down a runway rather than adventuring?

We might not need SE to provide additional genders for those two races to break free of the archetype, we might be able to do that ourselves. That being said however, if they add new genders or new races they will have to do it before the final release, or extremely early in the lifetime of the game. You wouldn't add new genders or races into a game with the age and style of FFXI because only a very select few would be willing to reroll a new character with all level one jobs and no gear, wiping out all the quests, missions and accomplishments of their more traveled being.
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#47 Jan 23 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Roegadyn --> Roegadettes
Miquo'te --> Manquo'te


We have our new names. Let them be official.
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#48 Jan 23 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing that honestly bugged me the most in XI about the mithra was the lack of male NPCs in thier home town.. Playable or not wasn't such a big deal but they could have at least stuck to the backstory they made for the mithra and given us some NPCs of the little guys... hehe maybe in a maids outfit.

If they give us a good enough backstory this time I'll accept the lack of playable male kitties and female buff people so long as they remember we need npcs of the oposite sexes so long as there are suposed to be two sexes to the race.
#49 Jan 23 2010 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
This is a hot topic? Not discussion on the combat system? Not character advancement? Itemization? THIS?


Well threads have been made repeatedly about those subjects aswel as about this one. Not that I can tired of it, but I would love to see some new juicy details released by SE so we can take the speculation to a whole new level \ (^ o ^) /



Quote:
I've always found the implications to be dangerously along the lines of the MMO developer officially supporting sexism.

One MMO in particular, freaked me out recently, Perfect World. In that game, ONLY males could be good tanks. A female tank would be significantly inferior, due to not having access to the strong tank class.

That really made me extremely uncomfortable. The implications were nothing good.


I was annoyed too, however I would like to add that I don't think they were trying to be demeaning towards women. The game has several races and each race only gets a few/1 class. As it turned out the Werebeast Males got the best tank class while the Werebeast Females got a "Magical Beastmaster" class. I would have loved to play the Beastmaster, but I really don't like going around as a female. Class division by gender really is a bridge too far (~ . ~)

Edit: well crap (*>.<*)

Edited, Jan 24th 2010 1:56am by RedGalka
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#50 Jan 23 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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You are all posting in a 6 month old thread, and it was a dead horse topic when it was written back then, too.

Edited, Jan 23rd 2010 4:46pm by Kirbster
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#51 Jan 23 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Apparently the topic / thread itsn't dead . ......Players have wanted this for years.. I hope SE actually hears usand gives their customers what they always wanted..

Edited, Jan 23rd 2010 6:01pm by Ruam
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