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A new idea on SummonersFollow

#1 Jun 22 2009 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
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In any Final Fantasy what are 3 things that you will always remember:

1. The Main Villain
2. The hokey new way they have you "level up" or get abilities
3. The Summons

Based on the concept of "the job system will be like Tactics in that you meet certain pre-reqs for advanced jobs", I have an idea. Obviously if this is not true, then this idea holds no water. In FFXI there were two types of blood pacts, Rage and Ward. As a result of this you ended up with the summoners who focused heavily on being the "glorified white mage" and those that are the "glorified black mage". Well what if in this world they were separate "paths" of the summoner class with different prereqs? I am a huge story buff, so if I bore you with my descriptions, for the mechanics-minded I will bold the bottom lines.

The Arcane Summoner
You start your career as a Black Mage, mastering the arcane arts, completing quests that teach you of the arcane world, it's interactions, and it's manifestations. At a certain point your studies can diverge, a more in depth study of the spells them self (you keep leveling black mage) or you begin studying the SOURCE of the arcane magic, and as a result contact one of the Arcane Spirits, that teach you how to make pacts to summon Arcane Avatars (Shiva, Ifrit, Brothers, Quetzalcoatl, Garuda, etc). You continue to have your arcane knowledge, but now you have not just your spells, which obviously will then progress even slower than a red mage, borderline not at all, but these pacts to deal damage. MP is your primary attribute, like SMN is in XI, your pacts cost MP, and much like SMN you will end up with a low HP, high MP, and light armor. Think of Rydia from FFIV). This is the path for those that want to use summons/spells primarily as Melee Proxys and Burst Damage while the summoner stays at the back line. You are comparable to a XI SMN/BLM in astrals using mostly Rage.

The Divine Summoner
You start your career as a White Mage, learning to draw power from the various gods for healing and support of your comrades. As your studies continue, one of the gods speaks directly to you, offering to take you from the abbeys and chapels to the world the gods have made, to show you first-hand their wonder, and the grant you the power of "Miracles". Through your journeys you encounter manifestations of the various gods, each offering to assist you on your journey at a certain cost. You will retain your clerical training, possibly growing slightly better over time. Obviously you will be sub-par at healing, but access to Miracles make you just as well of a buff/debuff, and your "field training" grants you access to heavier armor and buffs to make you a valued member of the "front line". At later levels one might even be able to bring an Avatar of the god to fight along slide them, who knows? HP and MP will with time even out on your character, as some "sacrifices" will be MP, others HP, maybe even 1 or 2 will be TP. Examples of the gods could be from Tactics, XII, even X deified their summons. The trailer made it clear this land is governed by many gods, it is just the next step from harnessing their power to harnessing them. Summoners on this path use their "summons" primarily as debuffs/party buffs and as a method of making essentially a White Mage into a decent DPS. You are comparable to a XI SMN/WHM in Reverant Mail, a shield, and a Hammer, using mostly Wards.

You can stop here if you get the idea, below is just an example of how I see combat working with the two styles....

An encounter with a WAR, THF, Arcane SMN (Rydia), and Divine Summoner (Yuna) versus "Army of Fishies". For the sake of ease explaining I will explain 3 "rounds", not advocating turn-base, just easier this way.

Round 1
Rydia opens up the fight casting Blindga on the fishies for 24mp, and begins summoning Quetzalcoatl for 224mp.
Warior hits a fish with his sword-chucks for 55, passing through it into another for 21.
Thief gets in position to steal fish scales and make some critical stabs for 50 each, killing a few more.
Yuna engages with her hammer doing 24 damage and casts "Mantle of the Ram" (Belial/Aries/Insert First Zodiac God), spending 40MP to give an AOE buff centered on her Attack Up and Enfire to party members. As an added effect to her alone, Yuna now has a large bonus to her Defense and Strength.
Rydia finishes summoning Quetzalcoatl, who on summoning does 150 lightning damage to all the fishies and engages one of them. He has no upkeep cost, but only hits for 14-16

Round 2
Rydia orders Quetz to disengage and return to her side, casting Sleep on the fishies the party is not currently engaged with.
Warrior hits a fish with his sword chucks for 81+7 fire damage, cleaving into another for 30+7.
Thief hits a fish for 31+7 normal, then another for 58+7 critical
Yuna attacks with her hammer for 35+7, and seeing the Warrior taking damage, throws him a Cure
Quetz grants Rydia 24mp from spending time next to her and out, think of it as the reverse of upkeep.

Round 3
It hits the fan, the fishies wake up, all wanting Rydia's blood
Rydia uses Astral Flow, reducing her HP to 25%, and pops some high quality juice to pull off 2 Pacts under the effect. Quetzalcoatl begins casting animation.
The Warrior uses an AOE Provoke and starts taking massive damage fast, using Mighty Strikes to try and kill off as many fish as he can.
The Thief steals some hate from the Warrior with Accomplice and uses Perfect Dodge, but it quickly fades and he begins taking hits.
Yuna uses Divine Intervention, reducing her to 25% HP and 25% MP 0 TP, Yuna quickly begins using Mega-Elixers to be able to pull off 2 Miracles. The ground around the party grows black and chains dripping in "liquid" fly up, wrapping around the fishies giving them bind-gravity-bio-amnesia-silence, Chains of Anima. Yuna swings at a fish doing 35+7 again.
Quetzalcoatl uses Thunder Storm dealing 400 lightning damage to all fishes and disappears.
Rydia begins summoning Bahamet for 300mp
Yuna's HP and MP hit the right thresholds for her to drop down again, this time light surrounding the party as a "wings" animation occurs on each character, having a large amount of HP restored, haste-attack up-defense up-magic up-shell-protect-regen, Wings of Alexander.
Bahamet appears, and since summoned under Astral Flow immediately uses Mega Flare dealing 580 non-elemental magic damage to a cone of the fishies, killing them all the fishies off.

Cue Celebratory Music


Opinions? Criticism? Sorry for length, but thanks for reading this far if you have.
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#2 Jun 22 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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Good idea but I would rather see a system like the junction system in FFVIII where everyone can have a summon but it is limited to who you decide to partner with(as in which summon you choose)
#3 Jun 22 2009 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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I would love to see summoner, along with the other "jobs", customizable to that extent.
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#4 Jun 22 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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My issue with "jack-of-all-trades" like junction leans toward is the same reason some aspects of FFXI frustrate me, it ends up all coming down to DPS, not what you are as a character. If for a roleplaying reason you ecide you want Cerberus as your favored summon, but the highest DPS summon is Eden, then you are looked at like an idiot in a party, because hey, you could have made Eden your chosen one. If it is random then you have people going "LFG Eden:O" or "Eden: X" or deleting characters if you end up with gods-forbid Carbunkle. I was talking to a friend bout this and he got confused, basicly saying "well as long as the summons are stronger than a black mage, else why level it." The simple reason, for the experience of BEING that class.

I would like to see more class-specific content, like having a Thief getting a quest for stealing something from a mob without "getting caught" (agroing it), or a White Mage getting something where they have to keep a stupid npc alive, even if in the end it ends up

Level 1: Bring X and Y to Z
Level 5: Use a Job Ability on X and avoid Y happening
....
Level 70: Fight your old master, who is the same job as you, plus a few tricks

to have something every few levels that is TECHNICALLY different than any other class, even if it is almost the same thing, makes you feel more like you are THAT CLASS than just

I can Deal X damage
I can Heal X damage
I can make Deal/Heal functions more efficient with X
which bottom line is FFXI as it is now, you pop out of the char creation screen feet from a zone and told "go kill" (deal x damage), "stay alive" (heal x damage) and try to be efficient (3rd one), until you get high enough to get a party of people who can help you fill the gaps LOL

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Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#5 Jun 22 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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^You wouldn't be using the summon all the time, it would be like the 2 hour ability. You have your "oh crap" button where you summon either comes down and heals everyone, or huge amounts of damage. This was not intended to be out at all times as you xp, because that would just be stupid.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 3:51pm by Parade

Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 3:51pm by Parade
#6 Jun 22 2009 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Parade: like Tactics Advanced (FF gods forgive me for referencing your ******* child, i will offer 99 Hail Kefkas to make it better in a second) had the race-specific summons? I mean those ARE nice, but it always felt like they nosed in on a summoner's job. I can sort of agree, but it is 1 step closer to "jack of all trades" pain.

On the same note for the BLM-based SMN, she would run like a blm, but instead of your "oh ****" button being unlimited mana or chainspell, it is a summon's super-attack, and instead of you being the one casting Thunder IV and V, it's the respective summon. A WHM-based one can pick one of the deities that is assigned to her 2-hour too, that way the 2 hour is always like Bamahet or Promethia or something big and beautiful, but summoners still have their day-in, day-out Ifrits and such. Basicly instead of giving EVERYONE an ******* summon button just add it to the list of possible summons for either summoner.
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Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#7 Jun 22 2009 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
Summoner could be fully heavy melee for a change, that would be nice, summons being some kind of ws type abilty with unique weapon types ie: Carbuncle = xbow, Ifrit = 2hsword, Death = scythe ( not actualy weapon suggestions there ).
Some summons could be related to armour too, Garuda = shield, Leviathan = plate mail and so on.
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#8 Jun 22 2009 at 4:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Well in Ye Ole Pen and Paper, Summoning magic can be used to summon armor and weapons too. I am a HUGE advocate to melee-mages, especially clerics. That is why I introduced the Divine Summoner the way I did, they can buff themselves up to being on par with the melees while still throwing a cure or two and having the gorgous summons, master of all under specific and expensive conditions LOL
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37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#9 Jun 22 2009 at 4:08 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Good idea but I would rather see a system like the junction system in FFVIII where everyone can have a summon but it is limited to who you decide to partner with(as in which summon you choose)



That is the stupidest idea for an MMO... a few hundred thousand players.. and a pick of maybee a top of 20 avatars...Well of course half of them suck, and if you don't use avatar A or B and you play a ???? class well'
"Joo R da N00BZ!!!!!1111!!!!11!1! We won't party with you...".


Soo... ummm yeah..
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#10 Jun 22 2009 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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(sorry for the posts minutes apart)
Toor, see my post in response to it. I totally agree with you that the community would make it so only 1 or 2 are actually used tops because the min-max nature, but please try to be polite. He or she had an idea, that idea has some flaws not because the system is flawed, but because we are. Cut him or her a little slack. Anyway, off my soap box for a moment.
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Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
#11 Jun 22 2009 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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ToorimaHades wrote:
Quote:
Good idea but I would rather see a system like the junction system in FFVIII where everyone can have a summon but it is limited to who you decide to partner with(as in which summon you choose)



That is the stupidest idea for an MMO... a few hundred thousand players.. and a pick of maybee a top of 20 avatars...Well of course half of them suck, and if you don't use avatar A or B and you play a ???? class well'
"Joo R da N00BZ!!!!!1111!!!!11!1! We won't party with you...".


Soo... ummm yeah..

Maybe you should actually read my second post instead of jumping the gun? Like I said it wouldn't be something you have all the time, more along the lines of "hey things are looking pretty bad here let me get my avatar out to help the situation"

There would be limitations on it, how long it can be out, how often you can use it, and maybe even which avatars you can have depending on class. Try thinking outside the box for once. I believe it is a better idea then what is in place now. 6 summon which are basically the same except for element, a curing summon, and two high level summons.


Edited, Jun 22nd 2009 8:48pm by Parade
#12 Jun 22 2009 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Parade, thank you for thinking with innovation, I will say again that I fear it harms the sanctity of summoner, but I do very much enjoy people being creative and open-minded versus "zomfgbbqcoptr mkae blkmg godzz kthnxbai" followed closely by "nerf blm!" :-p
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Mains:
75 Ninja/75 White Mage/75 Dancer/50 Samurai/51 Bard/93.1 Clothcraft/25 Goldsmithing

Subs:
37 Warrior/37 Dark Knight/30 Thief/30 PUP/37 Black Mage/28 Monk/everything else 5-15
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