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#52 Jun 24 2009 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
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And you haven't given a functional example of why it would be.


Listen, if you're not going to actually read what I write don't bother replying. I have posted multiple times what functional examples could come out of this, but you like to just continue saying "lol why would I want to cast fire 1 when it doesn't do sh*t?" Just because you refuse to accept, or just plain skip over, what I've posted as functional examples doesn't mean they aren't useful.


The only examples you've offered are downranking spells with a potential movement penalty. I've addressed that. If I've missed something, please, for the love of Pete, be a sport and quote it...but if you quote something that could be summarized as a downrank, I'm going to mock you...ferociously...for being a thick twit.

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Most of your arguments against the idea I've posted either a. don't even apply or b. are, to be frank, stupid. Why the **** should a replacement party member be able to quickly kill every EM-T monster in between them and their party quickly so he can reach them swiftly?


Did I say they should be able to, or did I say that the fact they're NOT able to is why sneak/invis are considered necessities? And if group and solo content are segregated to one extent or another, would that make sneak/invis more or less of a necessity?

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I have not attempted to personally insult you in any way, I've only stated what I thought were logical conclusions from the way that you were presenting your argument.


Your inability to decipher plain English is not my problem. When they reference how FFXI was more about group play and FFXIV will be more about something else, what is the logical inference? That it's going to be more group content yet casual so not group content but still group content? WTF do you think it could mean? Honestly? How in the blue **** can you read something like that and not put 2 + 2 together and realize that not nearly so much of the game is going to be tuned around groups as it was in FFXI?

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When you stated that the game is going to be tuned for solo play, ie WoW, when the devs have only said that it's going to be more casual I made the statement that the game isn't going to be like WoW.


No, you didn't say the game isn't going to be like WoW, you told me to stop thinking it was going to be exactly like WoW. Your inability to communicate clearly without being an insulting brat is no more my problem than your inability to interpret plain English. You didn't make a comment about FFXIV, you told me to stop thinking something. It was a stupid inference because I've stated more times than I can count in these forums that I neither expect nor WANT FFXIV to be "exactly like WoW" or even so much like WoW that it feels familiar.

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When you stated that EM monsters kick everyone's *** and that you can't solo past 20 I stated that you probably don't know enough about the game, because it's flat-out false.


I didn't say that EM monsters "kick everyone's ***"...I said that there are a great many classes that have a very hard time with EM+ mobs. Stop inferring stuff that I didn't write. READ THE FRIGGIN' WORDS AND INTERPRET THEM BASED ON WHAT THEY MEAN, NOT WHAT YOU THINK/WANT THEM TO MEAN.

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If you want to continue to 'debate' this subject any further, I recommend you actually reread my posts so that your arguments and objects actually are relevant to the idea purposed.


I've already re-read your posts, so I recommend that if YOU want to discuss this subject any further, you be a sport and quote what I apparently missed, because all I see is blah blah downrank blah blah movement speed blah blah crap.

Quote it or knock it off.
#53 Jun 24 2009 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
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so um..... lol K? lol
i like to see casting, and magic regeneration while being on a choco, just in case i have to head for them hills if i happen to **** off more then one mob.
#54 Jun 25 2009 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
So in FFXIV we shouldn't be able to move and cast under any circumstance just like in FFXI, because?
What exactly is the reason?
We do not even need to discuss what happens in FFXI really.
We know that the developers of FFXIV are trying to make it appeal more to the casual gamer, casual play = less time consuming, casting when moving can save time and hassle, its that simple!
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#55 Jun 25 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Decent
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LoL Exactly how much time is casting while moving saving? Five second for sneak and invis, I mean I see no need to cast while moving besides making the game easier which I don't want.
#56 Jun 25 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Decent
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LoL Exactly how much time is casting while moving saving? Five second for sneak and invis, I mean I see no need to cast while moving besides making the game easier which I don't want.

That is beside the point, we are disscussing ideas for FFXIV in this thread not changing FFXI. Also FFXIV will not be as "hard" as FFXI thats about the only thing we do know about it so far.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 10:09am by triplealphareaction
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#57 Jun 25 2009 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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time consuming, not hard~

It might very well be harder, if they make the combat system & fights complex enough o_o;
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#58 Jun 25 2009 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
LoL Exactly how much time is casting while moving saving? Five second for sneak and invis, I mean I see no need to cast while moving besides making the game easier which I don't want.

It's more about arbitrarially having a spell's cast get interrupted by even the tiniest movement.
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#59 Jun 25 2009 at 6:40 AM Rating: Default
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time consuming, not hard~

It might very well be harder, if they make the combat system & fights complex enough o_o;


and

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It's more about arbitrarially having a spell's cast get interrupted by even the tiniest movement.


Yeah I agree.
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#60 Jun 25 2009 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know if I like the idea of castign while moving, maybe for some classes, like the Bard for example but for classes like the BLM, WHM, SMN and SCH I don't think its such a good idea. These Jobs basically require concentration and the power of mind to cast what they do and with me, that what there all about!

Perhaps instant cast stuff should be done on the move. If they're instant cast then they have no timer to be interrupted, but for the spells that take one second+ to cast, then no.
#61 Jun 25 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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That is beside the point, we are disscussing ideas for FFXIV in this thread not changing FFXI. Also FFXIV will not be as "hard" as FFXI thats about the only thing we do know about it so far.


That is the point, you keep bringing up time comsumption, so I am asking exactly how much time would it really save. I dont see it saying much time at all, and the second part is a contradiction. You use FFXI as a reference when you try to give details why it is needed, and I use FFXI as an reference when I try to give details why its not neccessary. I do agree instant cast spells should not be interrupted, because simply it doesn't take any time to cast. Other then that, nothing else should be casted while moving, I did hate when my cast interrupted because I moved an inch, but that was my fault I shouldn't have moved.

That being said, saying this game will not be as hard as FFXI, really doesn't matter. Just because it won't be as "hard" or I will say hard of a grind, doesn't mean it will be a cake walk either. So saying that the game will be more casual, as a means to saying this "has to be added" or is more likely to be added, doesn't really work. People take the little information they got and are going overboard with it, as if "aimed a bit for the casual gamer", means everything thought of as "casual" will be in the game.
#62 Jun 25 2009 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey I'm wondering

can I shoot arrows while moving? You know, because that actually makes much more sense from a logical stand point.

If you guys want magic users to swing magic everwhere while running up and down the hills, I want a ranger to be able to shoot things doing the same.
#63 Jun 25 2009 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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If you guys want magic users to swing magic everwhere while running up and down the hills, I want a ranger to be able to shoot things doing the same.


I would have to assume any casting while moving functions would apply to ranged attack users. In many games Rangers can move and shoot, including Vanguard, which also had casting while moving.

It was actually something in Vanguard that worked very well. You could kite, but only for a limited time before the mob was on you, but you were able to fire off a spell or two more than if you were standing still.
#64 Jun 25 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Ranger types can have a loaded crossbow that let's them get a single shot while on the move. Once they stop they can reload.

Finger Wigglers can have a wand charged with a spell that let's them get a single shot while on the move. Once they stop they can charge the wand up again with a single spell.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 7:01pm by netglen
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#65 Jun 25 2009 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
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That is the point, you keep bringing up time comsumption, so I am asking exactly how much time would it really save. I dont see it saying much time at all, and the second part is a contradiction. You use FFXI as a reference when you try to give details why it is needed, and I use FFXI as an reference when I try to give details why its not neccessary. I do agree instant cast spells should not be interrupted, because simply it doesn't take any time to cast. Other then that, nothing else should be casted while moving, I did hate when my cast interrupted because I moved an inch, but that was my fault I shouldn't have moved.

and
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That being said, saying this game will not be as hard as FFXI, really doesn't matter. Just because it won't be as "hard" or I will say hard of a grind, doesn't mean it will be a cake walk either. So saying that the game will be more casual, as a means to saying this "has to be added" or is more likely to be added, doesn't really work. People take the little information they got and are going overboard with it, as if "aimed a bit for the casual gamer", means everything thought of as "casual" will be in the game.


Yeah you make a valid point, ok I don't think you are right that its not wasting my time, if I added up all that time lost it would add up to hours of lost time, but yeah, your general train of thought makes sense, makes a change from the "Warrrgggh its not like FFXI!! KILLL!! MY BRAIN HURTZ!! mentality from some of the other people in the community.
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#66 Jun 25 2009 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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It would like kind of dumb if your upper body was casting a spell while your lower body was sprinting.
#67 Jun 25 2009 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I like the idea mentioned a few times about charging spells. :3

I mean I can see both sides of the argument for and against being able to cast and move as the same time, so I think it'd be better if SE was able to find a middle ground. Maybe something like, as a mage gains mastery in their job they can hold a spell or two in their head for a prolonged period of time?

Say you charge a healing spell, and it takes 30 seconds for you to concentrate hard enough to be able to store the spell (and of course the amount of time would change depending on the strength or type of spell), and then you can fire it off in an emergency whether you're moving or not because you've already done your share of concentration, now you're just activating the spell.

For balancing, there can be timers associated with how long after you use the stored spell before you can charge another one, or how long you can actually hold the spell if it's not indefinite, even an extra cool down time after using stored spells that's longer than what a normally cast spell would incur.

I dunno. Just a thought. :> I really dig the idea of being able to store an ****************** spell or something for emergencies. Reminds me of my Manafont>>warp exploration days.. huhuhu.
#68 Jun 26 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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The only examples you've offered are downranking spells with a potential movement penalty. I've addressed that. If I've missed something, please, for the love of Pete, be a sport and quote it...but if you quote something that could be summarized as a downrank, I'm going to mock you...ferociously...for being a thick twit.

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Another possible idea that I like is this thought: The more advanced in a spell you become the farther you're allowed to deviate from the initial casting position before it interrupts. If you're trying to cast a spell that's way above your abilities you can't move an inch. If you're casting a spell that you're decently good with you can move around maybe 5-10 yalms. And if you're casting a spell that you mastered eons ago you can perform a steeple chase without getting interrupted.


The point of this thread if to build upon the idea, not make it set in stone exactly the way I originally said it. Especially since we don't know how the games going to work.

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Did I say they should be able to, or did I say that the fact they're NOT able to is why sneak/invis are considered necessities? And if group and solo content are segregated to one extent or another, would that make sneak/invis more or less of a necessity?


You said they're not able to and that's why sneak/invis are considered necessities, and you said that you don't want sneak/invis to have to be used. Now put together those points from an outsiders point of view and see what you get.

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Your inability to decipher plain English is not my problem. Your inability to communicate clearly without being an insulting brat is no more my problem than your inability to interpret plain English.


When you need to decipher plain english, it's because it doesn't make much sense. Maybe it's because we hold the words "tuned" to a different extent. If I said "These sneakers are tuned for running." then I would mean that these sneakers are built around only running. Thus when you said that "FFXIV is going to be tuned for solo play." I told you to stop thinking like it's going to be WoW, because WoW is built around solo play. It doesn't make me an idiot for thinking that. Anybody would think that. I also don't read every single thread in this forum so I haven't seen you say that you don't want the game to be like WoW. And don't think think the fact that you've had to restate it so many times shows how everybody thinks your comments can easily be thought of as trying to make the game more like WoW?

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I didn't say that EM monsters "kick everyone's ***"...I said that there are a great many classes that have a very hard time with EM+ mobs. Stop inferring stuff that I didn't write. READ THE FRIGGIN' WORDS AND INTERPRET THEM BASED ON WHAT THEY MEAN, NOT WHAT YOU THINK/WANT THEM TO MEAN.

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there are a great many classes that can't manage one T mob beyond level 20 without an NPC fellow,


What you said is false. Many of the jobs can still solo T mobs beyond level 20 without an NPC fellow

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I've already re-read your posts, so I recommend that if YOU want to discuss this subject any further, you be a sport and quote what I apparently missed, because all I see is blah blah downrank blah blah movement speed blah blah crap.

Quote it or knock it off.


Are you happy now that I quoted it? I'm sorry if you feel that being able to move half an inch while casting the equivilent of Fire IV and not get interrupted is a downrank. I'm sorry if you feel that being able to move 3-5ish yalms while casting the equivilent of Thunder III and not get interrupted is a downrank. Because it's not.

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It's more about arbitrarily having a spell's cast get interrupted by even the tiniest movement.
This, a thousand times this. I also support having ranged attacks have a ~3 yalm buffer that allows them to not get inerrupted as well.
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#69 Jun 26 2009 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:

The point of this thread if to build upon the idea, not make it set in stone exactly the way I originally said it. Especially since we don't know how the games going to work.


Then ideally you would be prepared to address some of the obstacles presented, and you've done an exceptionally poor job of that. A major obstacle is the risk of kiting while nuking becoming too great, and in the process of addressing that the whole concept of being able to cast on the move has become so convoluted with so many restrictions as to make it a pointless addition.

Your ideas are not fleshed out. They're easy to poke holes in from a general point of view. The whole idea of implementing a dunce buffer by not making it so that a twitch error interrupts the cast is sort of lame. You have buttons that you press to move and buttons that you press to cast spells. When you want to cast a spell, don't press a button that makes you move. Twitch errors are twitch errors and they're a part of any game. I'd much rather see a behind-the-scenes system that prevents latency from interrupting casts when the client shows that no movement was made during the cast cycle...that was an issue in FFXI that I haven't seen in any other games. Beyond that, if you want to present an idea and not have it challenged, you have to do more than toss out one idea after another, building on the original until it becomes so twisted that it's ridiculous.
#70 Jun 26 2009 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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If nothing else pause casting, or have the percent bar drop a few percent... So if you take one step your spell isn't lost completely. This should also work this way if you get hit... Have it drop a bit but not stop you casting all together.
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#71 Jun 26 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Default
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AureliusSir wrote:
The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
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Ya know what? This arguing stuff that the devs have already said is getting old. There will be a lot more content tuned for solo play...you can count on that.


"Tuned for solo play" and having more "content for casual play" are completely different things. Tuned for solo play means that you aren't going to be expected to party up for most things in the game, and that you'll be able to solo almost everything. That is not what it's going to be like, and that is why I said stop thinking it's going to be like WoW, because the way your presenting this makes it look like you do.


And I'm telling you to not make that assumption. Flat out. It's a stupid assumption.

You'd have to be maybe not quite so bright to have read the press releases and subsequent interviews to not believe that group content won't be segregated from solo content in some way. There was no segregation in FFXI, thus the need for stealth consumables and/or a stressed out caster trying to keep their party moving without getting aggro and wasting a buttload of time.


Arguing about how much of solo friendly FF14 is totally pointless. We do know that it will be more solo friendly then in FFXI, that is a fact since the developers have stated that. The real problem is how much more solo friendly then FFXI? Like 1% more? 10? 100? 1000? Or maybe even 10 000% more solo friendly. Lets expand and say, **** it might even be 100x more solo friendly then WoW is. The simple fact remains, we won’t know until we have more concrete information from the game.

So let’s sum it up with what we know and that is FF14 will be more solo friendly then FF11 but we don’t know how much more. End of discussion.
#72 Jun 27 2009 at 3:36 AM Rating: Decent
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A major obstacle is the risk of kiting while nuking becoming too great, and in the process of addressing that the whole concept of being able to cast on the move has become so convoluted with so many restrictions as to make it a pointless addition.


I already addressed that. Actually, I already addressed that when I presented the idea. Do you now know why I keep telling you to read what I write? Smiley: frown

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The whole idea of implementing a dunce buffer by not making it so that a twitch error interrupts the cast is sort of lame. You have buttons that you press to move and buttons that you press to cast spells. When you want to cast a spell, don't press a button that makes you move. Twitch errors are twitch errors and they're a part of any game. I'd much rather see a behind-the-scenes system that prevents latency from interrupting casts when the client shows that no movement was made during the cast cycle...that was an issue in FFXI that I haven't seen in any other games.


Just because you think it's "Lame" doesn't mean it's a bad idea. You not pressing moving buttons is only a fact because in most other games, you can't move. If you CAN move slightly, then people most likely will. This is the buffer that prevents latency from interrupting casts. I've also seen the issue in WoW too, but on the other end of the spectrum. I'd cast, and then the bar would finish completely and I'd move and suddenly get a "cast interrupted" message.

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Beyond that, if you want to present an idea and not have it challenged, you have to do more than toss out one idea after another, building on the original until it becomes so twisted that it's ridiculous.


Yeah-no. I tossed out 2 ideas total, and you're the only one who seems to think it's "so twisted it's ridiculous". All your so called "holes" have only applied to the first idea which as I've stated multiple times is not the idea I favor.

Edited, Jun 27th 2009 7:36am by Deadgye
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#73 Jun 27 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
A major obstacle is the risk of kiting while nuking becoming too great, and in the process of addressing that the whole concept of being able to cast on the move has become so convoluted with so many restrictions as to make it a pointless addition.


I already addressed that. Actually, I already addressed that when I presented the idea. Do you now know why I keep telling you to read what I write? Smiley: frown


Your solutions...as indicated in the quote...are too convoluted. Too many conditions and restrictions. You think you addressed it, but you didn't.

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Just because you think it's "Lame" doesn't mean it's a bad idea. You not pressing moving buttons is only a fact because in most other games, you can't move. If you CAN move slightly, then people most likely will. This is the buffer that prevents latency from interrupting casts. I've also seen the issue in WoW too, but on the other end of the spectrum. I'd cast, and then the bar would finish completely and I'd move and suddenly get a "cast interrupted" message.


It is lame. You're talking about further idiot proofing something that's already idiot proof.

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Yeah-no. I tossed out 2 ideas total, and you're the only one who seems to think it's "so twisted it's ridiculous". All your so called "holes" have only applied to the first idea which as I've stated multiple times is not the idea I favor.


Suit yourself. Glad you're not on the dev team :P
#74 Jun 27 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
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How about certain spells and abilities are either instant, or if casted they can still move about. In a ninjas case, all casted spells he could move freely at same speed. In others case they could only move limited amount of space and speed. Also.. give ninjas(and a few other jobs like thief) the ability to quickly move with an instant cast active ability or something rapid at least. ( I mean it is a ninja right?)

On that thought, thieves should be able to flee at any given notice for a short burst, and the ability to sneak around targets to get sneak attacks on them even if the target is locked onto the thief. Why should the thief suffer in damage just because he has aggro or is solo?
#75 Jun 27 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Forgot to mention ranged weapons and throwing, even in a full run if you select to start shooting or throwing, it should auto stop where you are, fire and let you continue running if you are on auto-run or whatever. Also.. rangers/gunners etc who only do ranged shooting should have an option to auto-fire like a regular fighter would, with a minimum range of course. Can't point blank shoot.
#76 Jun 27 2009 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Your solutions...as indicated in the quote...are too convoluted. Too many conditions and restrictions. You think you addressed it, but you didn't.


Yeah, sorry. It appears you either don't understand what you're talking about or you probably also think algebra is complicated as well.

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It is lame. You're talking about further idiot proofing something that's already idiot proof.


You're an idiot if you think it's idiot proof.
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#77 Jun 27 2009 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
Your solutions...as indicated in the quote...are too convoluted. Too many conditions and restrictions. You think you addressed it, but you didn't.


Yeah, sorry. It appears you either don't understand what you're talking about or you probably also think algebra is complicated as well.


Again with the personal shenanigans.

You're talking about taking a mechanic..."stand still while casting or your cast will be interrupted" and trying to wiggle a way around it so that you can move while casting.

The concern is that if you can move while casting, you can kite and do damage at the same time. This is not ideal. Try to think big picture. We're not just talking about an idea that sounds fun. We're talking about balancing game mechanics so that no one build has a distinct advantage over others. If you can move while casting, you'd most likely have to eat a mammoth penalty somewhere else to balance you with melee damage options, otherwise too many people would skip the relatively restrictive nature of melee for the sake of kiting everything.

So your solution, rather than saying ya, that might be a bit imbalanced, is to start layering restrictions. First it was downranking. Oh joy upon joys...what a benefit...I can cast trivial spells while moving. Farming lowbie zones has never been easier!! 'Cept...it wouldn't likely make much of a difference in that sense.

Then you go off on another spin on downranking where "current" spells don't let you move, spells you've had for a while let you move a little bit, and spells you've had forever have no movement restrictions. Wow...that's just...so much different from the general downranking idea. Like...srsly...night and day difference right there... So now you've got a penalty for using the best you've got relative to other options. Sweet. Not to mention the extra development time to work out the scale that it follows to determine what qualifies as a no-restriction spell, what qualifies as a moderate restriction spell, and what qualifies as a fully restricted spell. But you don't want to expand on that idea...you just want to be butthurt that your idea has met with some resistance.

I put forward the idea of being required to face your target in order to cast, which would eliminate the option of nuking while kiting. I put forward the idea of a behind the scenes mechanic to prevent latency from causing interrupts when the client showed no reason for said interrupts. That's about as far as it needs to go. I'm astounded that someone would suggest such a blatantly ridiculous idea as allowing movement while casting specifically as a stop-gap for no-skill buffoons to not interrupt their own casts in the mire of "zomfg FFXI wuz gud cuz it wuz harder than othr MMOs yo".

Why should casters get the ****** treatment? What makes your average caster so incompetent and grossly unskilled as a general rule that allowing them to move so that they don't interrupt their own casts is something you'd so rabidly defend? Or is it just a neat thing you'd like to see? Something that is somehow not so important that you're willing to refine the idea but you will be an abrasive twunt to defend it?

While you're at it, let's make it so melee don't have to position. Just push a button and they close to melee range and lock target and stay there. Big ol' macros with conditional modifiers so you can push one button and your character plays itself while you watch. If you're going to dumb it down, you might as well go all the way.

Be a sport. Flesh out your ideas. Stop tossing out crap and expecting everyone else to refine them for you. If you can't properly address the concerns, you can't really justify defending the concept, can you?

I've read your posts elsewhere. You don't come across as someone who knew a whole lot about what they were doing in FFXI or WoW, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you might be able to put a reasonable spin on a broken idea. You haven't, and now somehow that translates into a shortcoming on my end of things. Get a grip.

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It is lame. You're talking about further idiot proofing something that's already idiot proof.


You're an idiot if you think it's idiot proof.


"ZOMFG I KEEP MOVING WHEN I TRY TO CAST AND I INTERRUPT MY SPELLS!!!!11"

=

proof you're an idiot.

Don't move.
#78 Jun 28 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Default
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The concern is that if you can move while casting, you can kite and do damage at the same time. This is not ideal. Try to think big picture.


This was never a concern, because it was never possible. This is why I told you to reread what I wrote.

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Like...srsly...night and day difference right there... So now you've got a penalty for using the best you've got relative to other options. Sweet. Not to mention the extra development time to work out the scale that it follows to determine what qualifies as a no-restriction spell, what qualifies as a moderate restriction spell, and what qualifies as a fully restricted spell. But you don't want to expand on that idea...you just want to be butthurt that your idea has met with some resistance.


Penalty? You're retarded. Smiley: lol Extra development time to work out a scale? If you think it would take more than an hour to work out a scale then you're stupider than I thought.

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I put forward the idea of a behind the scenes mechanic to prevent latency from causing interrupts when the client showed no reason for said interrupts. That's about as far as it needs to go.


You did no such thing. Guess why? Because you can stop putting inputs and your character can still move in your client in between when you stopped putting inputs and when you started your spell.

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Why should casters get the ****** treatment? What makes your average caster so incompetent and grossly unskilled as a general rule that allowing them to move so that they don't interrupt their own casts is something you'd so rabidly defend? Or is it just a neat thing you'd like to see? Something that is somehow not so important that you're willing to refine the idea but you will be an abrasive twunt to defend it?


lolretardtreatment. Seriously, I wouldn't be a twunt if you actually thought with your brain when you tried to debate.

Quote:
If you can't properly address the concerns, you can't really justify defending the concept, can you?


Ohohohohoho, you don't get to ask this question. Why? Because you have been unable to properly address any concerns. All you've done is made up concerns that don't apply.

Quote:
I've read your posts elsewhere.


You probably haven't even been into the thief forums. Smiley: lol

Quote:
"ZOMFG I KEEP MOVING WHEN I TRY TO CAST AND I INTERRUPT MY SPELLS!!!!11"

=

proof you're an idiot.

Don't move.


"ZOMG MY SPELL GETS GETTING INTERRUPTED AND I"M NOT MOVING."

Happens. All. The. @#%^ing. Time.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 10:41am by Deadgye
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#79 Jun 28 2009 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
This is just a personal feud now guys, its not pretty.
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#80 Jun 28 2009 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
The concern is that if you can move while casting, you can kite and do damage at the same time. This is not ideal. Try to think big picture.


This was never a concern, because it was never possible. This is why I told you to reread what I wrote.


You're honestly not bright enough to carry on this conversation.
#81 Jun 28 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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I think having a mix of instant cast spells and cast time spells would be nice enough as a start. Balance them through cooldowns or mana cost / damage ineffeciencies however you like.

In terms of casting while moving, I think it could work with some conditional factors - some of which have probably been mentioned here.

I think, that facing your target would need to be a given for direct damage spells. I think there should also be a concentration penalty (ie if you get hit by the mob while running its somewhat of an auto spell failure).

Another way which would be rather novel is to have the cast time be more of a "prep" time at the end of which you character would perform the actual spell cast (with say a 1 second or w/e cast animation which requires the character to stand still). I guess, this to me seems like a mage perparing the spell chants and motions in his head prior to actually casting it.

Anyway, just ideas - doesn't really matter to me one way or another because i am sure that if it is implemented SE will do their best to make it balanced.
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#82 Jun 29 2009 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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personally i'm opposed to moving while casting. even if they did allow T1 spells to be cast while moving by a caster that is capable of T3 or T4 spells of the same type, what would be the point in that? realistically it allows too much room for abuse and not enough actual purpose to make it worthwhile.

however, i do believe they should allow movement during the first 10-20% of the cast, to eliminate the terribly annoying casting interruptions due to not pausing long enough between when you stop running and when you start casting.
#83 Jun 29 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
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22,699 posts
AureliusSir wrote:
The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
The concern is that if you can move while casting, you can kite and do damage at the same time. This is not ideal. Try to think big picture.


This was never a concern, because it was never possible. This is why I told you to reread what I wrote.


You're honestly not bright enough to carry on this conversation.


You're almost as bad as Alma. Smiley: rolleyes
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#84 Jun 30 2009 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it's actually, technically possible to cast while moving in FFXI. It's just that it invokes a Spell Failure percentage for every (very small) increment of movement - even a 10% spell failure chance is likely to stop a spell if it procs once for every pixel you move, for example, and I think the percentage they use is much higher.

I say this because I've found that even on jobs without Fast Cast (and with no Fast Cast equipment) I can sometimes have a spell go off when I start moving at the 40%-50% point, once or twice at the 30% mark. It is possible that this could simply be due to lag, but it's happened often enough that I find it unlikely to be the sole cause.


As for being able to move without casting, if my above assumption is correct all they would have to do to make moving while casting actually viable is just lower the spell failure percentage - and to keep it balanced, the more a difference between the spell's level and your level, the lower the percentage.

As an example... let's say the default movement failure rate is 95%. Now let's say it procs once for every 0.25 seconds of movement. And let's say the reduction is a simple -1%/Level difference. Let's use a WHM75 as our test subject. To keep things simple it's a naked White Mage who's Support Job has been locked out. Medusa is chasing her in Salvage or something, I dunno. That's not important.

Cure V in this situation will have an 81% chance of spell failure that procs 10 times. Not looking so good, but it's not quite a guaranteed failure.

Cure IV is a little better with a 61% chance of spell failure, also procs 10 times. Better chance but it's procing too much to be safe.

Cure III also has 10 chances to proc, but we're down to a 41% spell failure.

Cure II a 31% chance that procs 9 times, and Cure I a 21% chance procing 8 times.

So moving is still bad, but not a guaranteed failure, and Fast Cast becomes even more useful by reducing the number of proc attempts.

Assuming spell failure down from gear and traits would apply, a WHM with /RDM using a gearset made first to max out Fast Cast and then Spell Failure down, (resulting in a Spell Failure down 74% and Fast Cast 27%, )casting Cure V, would have an 8% failure chance that procs 7 times. That's uh... really, really good. Wow, that makes Eremite's Wand(+1) really good.

Well, the idea would still need some fine-tuning to keep it from being too powerful (maybe a reduced effect of spell failure down for movement-generated spell failure), but it seems fairly sound to me.


Keep in mind this is all based off of FFXI stats, and I know FFXIV will be different, but while the numbers it draws off of will change the basic idea is still quite viable - the more powerful the spell, the more likely moving will disrupt your concentration. The more you've used a spell / the lower a level it is, the easier it is for you to successfully cast it despite interruption.

===========

As for insta-cast spells... I would like to see some. Not many, mind you, but a few. Insta-cast Invisibility and Sneak (or other detection-avoidance) spells would be quite nice, even if there are non-instant versions that are cheaper to cast. Or perhaps an ability that changes the next spell into an instant-cast, though with higher requirements to cast it and/or a great MP cost - I could see an in-setting explanation for that, too- spells are normally cast with the careful application of arcane power (thus the casting time and MP costs), but you could probably substitute raw, magical brute force for finesse (like using a gallon of nitroglycerin to explode a door instead of an ounce or two at each hinge and lock). However, I really don't want to see such spells become a prevalent combat tool, as my views on instant/non-instant magic are largely in line with Deadgye's.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 2:01pm by Volkai
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#85 Jul 01 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Decent
7 posts
I personally believe that we should respect XIV as its own game, rather than bring up examples from XI, and that we should be open to new ideas and suggestions, instead of stating things that wouldn't have worked in the latter. We saw a 'Mithra' casting a barrier-type spell in the trailer. XI had no such thing, and it wasn't even a feaible suggestion then, so who's to say movable casting won't be available to us when the game is released, or even after future updates?

Judging on the information from the Connect!On interview, jobs will center around our weapons, which might mean that even Spell-casters might join the fray. Movable casting might play a part then. In any case, I'm sure whatever they have in plan for us will be revealed in due time. Till then, I really don't think there's a point in ruling out anyone's (plausible) suggestions. We're probably all in for a big surprise.
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