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Pay more for extra characters?Follow

#1 Jun 24 2009 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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(Okay the poll thing confused me so I'll just come out and ask and you guys can post your answer and the whys, ifs, buts and what-evers.

In FFXI we were charged an additional fee to have more than one character. Something we all put up with and had to because of the rather idiotic way inventory space was handled. Largely down to certain things not capping and (when I played anyway) huge price hikes on key materials connected with the rather annoying Gobbie-Bag Quests.

Furniture was also expensive and if you were serious about crafting, you never threw any ingredient away since they were either expensive or hard to come by (Bloody Clotts!)

Not to mention the fact that you didn't (or couldn't) just have one job leveled and needed gear, reasonable gear I might add, and of course this also ate up space.

So having a mule or three was the only viable solution for some.

I for one don't want to pay extra for having an extra character, its something I really hope they leave in FFXI.

#2 Jun 24 2009 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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I say no. SE is the only MMO developer I've personally seen who only gives you one character for your basic monthly fee and charges you extra for each character slot above and beyond that. I kind of think that SE overlooked the fact that players would use additional characters for mules, or they knew that people would use mules and wanted to discourage it. I love having mules/bank alts. It's not even so much about the inventory space as it is the option to keep things organized. There's no significant additional cost to SE to allow multiple characters/account, and so I don't really see it as being justified to charge extra for them.
#3 Jun 24 2009 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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I was thinking about this too and I'm glad that someone brought it up.

This also bothered me about FFXI, but being the second MMORPG that I played I figured that I must have been standard.
Since then I've played others and they were quite different. You could have multiple characters on a single account, but only one account logged in at a time.

I would like a system where you could have, maybe, 3 characters per account. You can choose to play as any 3, but only one a time. (You couldn't play as all three on three different computers.)

I don't remember what kind of system FFXI had for giving items to other players, but one idea would be that you could mail items to other players...or your own characters with a mailbox (not sure if FFXI already had this).

This way you can use them as mules or whatever you want, but you won't be able to play all 3 simultaneously and have your own parties by yourself (I never understand why people do that).

Although I am not sure how, or if, this type of system would affect other gameplay mechanics.
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#4 Jun 24 2009 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, I dont like paying an extra .99$(that went up I think too... it was only .50$ at first wasnt it?) per character any more than the next guy. But I think SE did it to keep ppl from switching races for different jobs. I think I like the system...this way u are attatched to you character and not switching between 5 different alt chars for dif jobs like on WoW.

I do think FF needs a complete overhaul on the Inventory system on ffxiv tho.
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#5 Jun 24 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Think about it this way. When you paid for the initial 12.95 you got not just one race one class you got one race many classes. That's how I look at it. You had the ability with one character to be everything. So paying another 1.00 to play everything as a different race doesn't seem like that big of a deal if you look at it like that.
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#6 Jun 24 2009 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
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No, I do not want people having sh*tloads of mules and alts to cause drama and then disappear on an alt nobody knows about.



Too many times.


Fix the inventory system so mules aren't an absolute requirement.

Also, personally, I like investing a lot of time into a single character, and getting to know other people without having memorizing all of their **** alts.

Edited, Jun 24th 2009 3:54pm by Kirbster
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#7 Jun 24 2009 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
No, I do not want people having sh*tloads of mules and alts to cause drama and then disappear on an alt nobody knows about.



Too many times.


Fix the inventory system so mules aren't an absolute requirement.

Also, personally, I like investing a lot of time into a single character, and getting to know other people without having memorizing all of their **** alts.

Edited, Jun 24th 2009 3:54pm by Kirbster



This.

If they fix inventory people wouldn't be forced to mule. Also people had to have mules at all the different AHs. This also needs to be fixed.

A rehaul of the inventory system and the AH system will enable people to bypass mules completely.
#8 Jun 24 2009 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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SE never saw people having 5 level 75 jobs thus possibly needing a crap load of gear. They've admitted this.

The awesome part of FFXI design is that you could have 1 character on every job. Thus they didn't expect you to have more, thus charge for them. As far as we know now, XIV will have jobs in some type of way, so you'll be able to be a 'warrior' or a 'white mage' so it sounds like the system is the same. So I expect the payment options to be the same.

The only way I don't see this happening is if we're able to store a TON of gear in our new Mog House.

Edited, Jun 24th 2009 7:04pm by mpmaley
#9 Jun 24 2009 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly I think that each player should be able to have a certain amount of characters on a different server. I think WoW limits you to 10 characters per a realm, for a game with a job system like FFXI that's a bit much (But in WoW I believe 10 characters is just enough for 1 character with every job).

But even if FFXIV does not have a job type system, or if it does, I'm still for having multiple characters. Item management was pretty poor in FFXI, and required mules, especially for crafters. Not only that but it required you to build mules and set them in different cities and so on.

But even so, if you wanted to have a mithra to play with to take a break from your taru taru, you should not have to pay an extra dollar.
#10 Jun 24 2009 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The awesome part of FFXI design is that you could have 1 character on every job.


I completely agree. This was one of the best things about FFXI that I haven't seen in other games.

As someone else said, an overhaul of the inventory system and AH system would reduce the need for mules.

If those things were fixed, the only other reason for having multiple characters would be to having one for each race.

But who knows how FFXIV will work out with the job system.
The way I'm imagining it is that players will learn their skills not based on their chosen 'job', but rather by the weapons their use throughout the game...maybe in a FFIX style - learning skills from equipment.
But didn't they also said that your character will develop throughout the story?

What if you want to see how else you can develop a character? Would you need to create a new one to go through it again...just in a different way?

I guess we don't know yet...but let's hope there is less need for mules and alternate characters.
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#11 Jun 24 2009 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
SE is the only MMO developer I've personally seen who only gives you one character for your basic monthly fee and charges you extra for each character slot above and beyond that.


They're also the only MMO developer I know of that lets you play all roles on one character.

I agree with Kirbster. Keep the 'job change' ability and increase inventory enough that mules aren't as necessary.
#12 Jun 24 2009 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

They're also the only MMO developer I know of that lets you play all roles on one character.

I agree with Kirbster. Keep the 'job change' ability and increase inventory enough that mules aren't as necessary.


Mules in different cities saves time, and money. Unless they change the region system a serious crafter will always have a mule in each city even if they had unlimited bank space for every character. This is because Bastok might of been in control of a region one day, but windurst the next week. Because of the time of travel in the game was so long, it was easier to hop onto and off mules.
#13 Jun 24 2009 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:

They're also the only MMO developer I know of that lets you play all roles on one character.

I agree with Kirbster. Keep the 'job change' ability and increase inventory enough that mules aren't as necessary.


Mules in different cities saves time, and money. Unless they change the region system a serious crafter will always have a mule in each city even if they had unlimited bank space for every character. This is because Bastok might of been in control of a region one day, but windurst the next week. Because of the time of travel in the game was so long, it was easier to hop onto and off mules.


Yar...

I had one in all the cities, plus an extra in Jeuno and an extra in Sando. On top of inventory, you get extra AH slots... plus, no worries about getting cut off from the regional NPCs. Give the mules some flower pots, keep the AH slots full with consumables, and the riches flow right in.

I do hope they change things drastically though... Even so, I'll probably still have a couple of mules.
#14 Jun 24 2009 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I think they should keep the fee, but improve on inventory management so a mule is not needed. Fee stops people from making alt characters just to cause drama and delete them. There should not be a need to have a mule, but it should be a fee for the people that want more characters. Being able to play all the jobs on an single character is reason enough to charge a few on extra characters. If it was like most other mmos (1 character can only play 1 job), then there wouldn't be a fee for extra characters.
#15 Jun 24 2009 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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This "Drama" we are talking about is really up to SEs staff to handle. Honestly in WoW where people can have tons of characters any outbursts are handled pretty quickly because of how quick and effective the in game report system is for those things.

Adding something like that to FFXIV would be a simple solution that makes both ends pretty happy.
#16 Jun 24 2009 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not partial either way. Just as long as I can still play every job on one character I'll be fine. If I had more space I wouldn't have ever needed that alt in FFXI but since it was still only $14.00 for the two characters I didn't mind it.

Hi-Rez Studios is doing something interesting with Global Agenda though. Each account can make 8 characters (there's only 4 classes) but every character will be named the same. If FFXIV doesn't let us play all of the jobs on one character I would like this way as an alternative.
#17 Jun 25 2009 at 3:57 AM Rating: Good
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If everyone agrees with me, why was I sub-defaulted?

If you disagree, at least post something that I can respond to.

Quote:
This "Drama" we are talking about is really up to SEs staff to handle. Honestly in WoW where people can have tons of characters any outbursts are handled pretty quickly because of how quick and effective the in game report system is for those things.


It's not really outbursts or spamming, but more like stealing the entire guild inventory and disappearing to an alt.


As I've said in other threads, FFXI was wonderful because people had to think about what they were doing and how it would affect their reputation. There was no running away from your reputation, because you'd invested so much in your main character.

While I was playing WoW, most of the time people didn't give a **** about their reputation because they could just reroll a new alt and get it to max level in a fairly short amount of time.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 5:01am by Kirbster
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#18 Jun 25 2009 at 4:17 AM Rating: Good
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The idea of using a Mule or Bankalt or whatever in an MMO is outdated. It really is nonsensical.

Virtually everyone makes Mules. It's not like an MMO designer is saving server space by heavily limiting people's inventories... players just work around it by spreading the inventory space across multiple characters.

It's a bad system all together, and really should be thrown out.
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#19 Jun 25 2009 at 4:21 AM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
This "Drama" we are talking about is really up to SEs staff to handle. Honestly in WoW where people can have tons of characters any outbursts are handled pretty quickly because of how quick and effective the in game report system is for those things.

It's not really outbursts or spamming, but more like stealing the entire guild inventory and disappearing to an alt.

Nowadays, that really is handled quick and effeciantly. Stealing a guild bank is grounds for a perminant ban, and unless there is exceptionally high volume at the time (AKA right after a patch or something) a guild bank will have it's stuff returned usually within 24-48 hours. I had it happen to my guild once, stuff got returned in like only 4 hours.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 8:21am by Karelyn
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#20 Jun 25 2009 at 5:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Its many other drama people could do rather then steal, thats not easily corrected. Like join parties just to make them die, like link up for missions just to make the whole party lose, just annoying stuff that no GM can do anything about. Then switch to an alt character and doesn't have to worry about reputation or any extra fee.
#21 Jun 25 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Default
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Maybe this can be fixed:

Put your cursor on a player (Ex. Me). It will show my player name, and the names of my possible 3 alts I'm allowed to have on my account. The master account will always show first, of course, followed by my "alts". $15 bucks a Month and we get 4 Characters to play with (1 Main, 3 alts, etc).

Eh?

Then we'll know who has what alts maybe? It'll show like this:

Skeptic (main)
Manthra (alt)
Girlka (alt)
lolRMT (alt)

Just a random idea.



Edited, Jun 25th 2009 11:50am by Skeptic
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#22 Jun 25 2009 at 8:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yes, SE is the only one who charges 12.95 for one character and then charges you a dollar per character after... but SE is also the only MMO that allows you to play every single job in the game on that one character. WoW is something like 15 a month, and they get what 10-16 character with that 15$? But every time they want to try a new job they have to re-start everything... quests, reputation, etc.

So I can have my main that I can play everything on, I never have to redo my reputation or quests and missions. I still get all the benefits of a high ranked character, even on my low level jobs and I can have 2 extra mules for the same price as WoW. I don't see a problem, and I don't mind paying a extra few dollars for the convenience of not having to re-do everything every time I want to try something different.

Now if they make FFXIV more expensive than FFXI... well THEN I might have a problem. But the way the payment is now, I'm fine with it.


Edited, Jun 25th 2009 12:05pm by YfandesofBismarck
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#23 Jun 25 2009 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I had a ton of Mules that carried my stuff for blacksmithing. I just wish that we could carry more stuff. Definitely in blacksmithing we needed to be able to carry as many materials as possible for future synths.
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#24 Jun 25 2009 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Some really interesting points, in a way I agree with them all. There are good points and bad points for paying to have an extra character the most obvious bad point being paying more real money just to have a bit more space, which again was limited, maybe more so than your first character. Sure you could cram their mog-house with armour crates (about the only really useful and inexpensive piece of furniture out there) but would you spend more hard-earned Gil on the Moggles Vacation just to bolster the space a little more?

FFXI was a massive game which you needed a lot of time to invest in and even something as simple as earning a few more inventory slots meant hours farming before-hand just to make enough Gil to afford the items required.

I loved my character, really loved her! She has her own back-story that changed and developed as the expansions came out and I changed to another Job. Leaving the game was the hardest thing I've had to do in a long time and I still pine for her! It's crazy!

But you can only grow that kind of bond if you DID put in the massive amount of effort. If spent hours and hours, training, farming, skilling in a hobbie.

I've played a number of MMOs since FFXI I have NEVER felt a connection with them. Not on the same scale as FFXI and my fantastic little BLU/THF! And that is largely down to how the job system works in FFXI. Being able to change and devolop as your tastes/urges require.

I think I would happily pay more for an extra character, if and only if, I was able to have at least three slots for my main uses.
#25 Jun 25 2009 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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EliteDW wrote:
I had a ton of Mules that carried my stuff for blacksmithing. I just wish that we could carry more stuff. Definitely in blacksmithing we needed to be able to carry as many materials as possible for future synths.


Yeah I feel ya, I do Bonecraft and I have like a mule and a half full of crystals and supplies for later synths. That's why I was happy when I got my Mog Satchel, 30 extra spaces on all my mules... and they are all still full! XD


Edited, Jun 25th 2009 12:25pm by YfandesofBismarck
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#26 Jun 25 2009 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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If player reputation and the ability to be any job are returning then I have no problem with an extra charge for additional characters. I do agree that things such as inventory and the AH need to improved upon.

If player housing is making a return I feel there should be an infinite amount of storage there. To cut down on clutter when items are added to the houses storage it should automatically stack with if possible. Speaking of stacking the stack count should be increased. Why does the stack count have to be such a low number? Why can't it be 50? or 100? or 1,000? There is no reason why a various count of the same object should take several inventory slots, after all it is a "magical" bag. I'd say a character's inventory should probably have a size limit but it needs to be larger. If your wearing something it shouldn't take up space in your inventory, to me that's just commonsense. It's like saying I can't put my wallet in my pocket because I'm wearing a shirt.

The Auction houses should also have an unlimited amount of space to put items up for sell. Also a player should be able to say I want to sell 57 potions as a single stack for such and such price and the system should allow it. With changes like this or similar to these there is very few reason to have a mule.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but MMOs do some stupid stuff to hinder players for no good reason.
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#27 Jun 25 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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To be sure

those of you in favor of charging extra do realize you're agreeing to spend more money? Even if it's just an extra dollar, it's still money I rather not spend. I don't like spending money on any online game, but I will if the game is good.

Also I'd like to know who here has had a lot of mules and who has not. I honestly can't see anyone who had to use a lot of mules for some reason be in favor of being charged more. I personally had 5 (One in each main city, one in Juno, and one extra) Which adds up to a whopping 5 extra dollars a month.

#28 Jun 25 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Mules or no, there is no need to charge for making multiple characters.
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#29 Jun 25 2009 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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The only way I'd ever agree for more than one character is if it were limited to one character per server, for reasons stated earlier.
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#30 Jun 25 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I had 2 mules and is in favor of the extra fee. I'm willing to pay for anything I believe is worth spending money on (rather that be an online game, or an extra channel/package on cable, etc). I would rather have the option to pay for the year, then not have to worry about monthly fees, but that is another issue. Like I said, the inventory problem should be fixed (not unlimited items, but a lot where the average person shouldn't need a mule). The mules in different cities did help a ton, but it wasn't a need, all it did was save time. That could easily be fixed with adding portals, that let you warp directly between the cities, or crystals closer so the travel isn't that far. A fee keeps reputation as a key element, and because you can play every job on 1 character (assuming it stays this way), i'm in favor of the fee. It keeps the community close knit, and just as a minor concern, stops all the "guess who" tells.
#31 Jun 25 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
As I've said in other threads, FFXI was wonderful because people had to think about what they were doing and how it would affect their reputation. There was no running away from your reputation, because you'd invested so much in your main character.


This is also because FFXI was pretty elitist to begin with. Also, having multiple characters in a game never really changed much as far as drama goes. In the end people who want to be idiots will be and people don't will not. Like I said it's also much more the game mods problems to help correct any of this. I'll tell you SE had some of the worst game mods/customer service I've dealt with ever.

Quote:
While I was playing WoW, most of the time people didn't give a **** about their reputation because they could just reroll a new alt and get it to max level in a fairly short amount of time.


This is more likely the style of the game. In WoW you really only interact with people within your guild once you get established. While in FFXI, because of the job system, you might level a subjob one day and be killing kirin the next with the same person. Everyone knew everyone in FFXI which was nice, but it also has it's downsides. Once I knew a player was bad, or just annoying, he would go on my blist right away. Even if he improved, I'd never know because I was not willing to risk it. Really in FFXI if you were hated by one player of general importance, you were hated by the general community.

Also I would not say it's just that easy to reroll if your rep gets busted in WoW. It still takes time to build up good gear. In WoW endgame and endgame pvp is really what there is at the end, and if you have considerable time invested in that you're not going to want to reroll.

#32 Jun 25 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is also because FFXI was pretty elitist to begin with.


Elitism has absolutely nothing to do with worrying about your reputation before being an asshat about things.

Quote:
Also I would not say it's just that easy to reroll if your rep gets busted in WoW. It still takes time to build up good gear. In WoW endgame and endgame pvp is really what there is at the end, and if you have considerable time invested in that you're not going to want to reroll.


Compare it to XI and tell me it's not easy. Some naxx and uldar runs and you're pretty much back in business.

Quote:
Really in FFXI if you were hated by one player of general importance, you were hated by the general community.


You'd really have to **** off a lot of people to get hated by the general community.

Edited, Jun 25th 2009 3:12pm by Kirbster
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#33 Jun 25 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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The reason they charged for extra characters in FFXI is because it opened up ways to make more gil; repeating one time quests, more gardening space, things of that nature. At least that's my belief.

I imagine this won't be in FFXIV unless they keep the same focus on having 1 character.
#34 Jun 25 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Whatever they bring to the table, I'm sure everyone will adapt to it.
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