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Aion - Raising the Bar?Follow

#52 Jul 07 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldnt compare the battle system with FFXI its totally different... its more like WoW/WAR also there are but a few things u need to group up for... again a game with way to much soloing and to little grouping.. which is a shame. Im hoping FFXIV finds a good balance.. enough solo content but i hope even more group content.
#53 Jul 07 2009 at 7:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Im hoping FFXIV finds a good balance


I'm hoping that SE isn't even trying to balance it.

There will be enough solo/group mix MMO's around even if FFXIV won't be like them.

Yeah I'm selfish here, because casual group based MMO (with some soloing) hasn't been tried yet and I wish some company would give it a go.
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#54 Jul 07 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
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Im hoping FFXIV finds a good balance


I'm hoping that SE isn't even trying to balance it.

There will be enough solo/group mix MMO's around even if FFXIV won't be like them.

Yeah I'm selfish here, because casual group based MMO (with some soloing) hasn't been tried yet and I wish some company would give it a go.


Uhm, WoW? Not talking about leveling in general, but things you do once you reach max level.

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 11:31am by muppenz
#55 Jul 07 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Uhm, WoW? Not talking about leveling in general, but things you do once you reach max level.


If the whole game was like that, yeah.. I'd like to think that the game doesn't start at 'endgame' though.
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#56 Jul 07 2009 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Dont get me wrong im all for grouping in an MMO its kinda what i liked so much in FFXI.
For me the ideal game would be where grouping has such a big incentive that every1 is gonna want to do it and not just because they have to but because its fun. However for the love of god put in enough fun soloing content so that when you want to drop in for just an hour instead of 3-8 or w/e that u can start immediatly instead of having to wait hours to get a group together before u can start playing (made me stop FFXI..)

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 5:30pm by BaasP
#57 Jul 08 2009 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Flying was great, but you can't really PvP in the air... I do like watching the NPC's pick fights with each other though.


Really now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LPPwGV_YU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaionsource%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fgeneral%2Ddiscussion%2F20900%2Donly%2Drvr%2Dvideo%2Dyou%2Dneed%2Dwatch%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded
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#58 Jul 08 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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What's that? That's not Aion, that's totally some other game. I don't know who you're Sir, but you definitely photoshopped that entire video!

So yeah, I guess I haven't played it enough.
#59 Jul 08 2009 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm definitely playing this. Just found out about it today and I've already fallen in love. The Spiritmaster class just based off the very little info I've gathered so far seems like everything a Summoner should be. Seems like the perfect game to tide me over until FFXIV.
#60 Jul 08 2009 at 7:33 PM Rating: Good
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KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Quote:
Flying was great, but you can't really PvP in the air... I do like watching the NPC's pick fights with each other though.


Really now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LPPwGV_YU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaionsource%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fgeneral%2Ddiscussion%2F20900%2Donly%2Drvr%2Dvideo%2Dyou%2Dneed%2Dwatch%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded


Why is the music for all of these gameplay videos always trance or some funky Asian pop? I'd honestly rather hear the game...and if I didn't I have my own music.
#61 Jul 08 2009 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't say that I've personally played Aion before, but my wife has been registered on Aion since they released it as pay-to-play in China (couple of months ago?)

Thus far, she's made two characters, both of which were the equivalent of FFXI's RDM and WHM (which were her main jobs in FFXI). While it had her hooked for the first couple of months, she no longer really plays it anymore...from her account of things, it certainly looks prettier than FFXI, but it doesn't have that factor that will keep people hooked to it.

Then again, she's not interested in the PvP aspect of Aion (which is why most of its fan base subscribe), so that might be why she doesn't find it as addictive as FFXI used to be for her. PvE doesn't really work that well yet, because healer jobs are quite gimp compared to their melee counterparts.

There IS a decent amount of teamwork happening in Aion but then again, my wife plays a healer role, so they're in high demand for buffs and curebotting.
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#62 Jul 09 2009 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Why is the music for all of these gameplay videos always trance or some funky Asian pop? I'd honestly rather hear the game...and if I didn't I have my own music.


Asian players like asian pop i guess.
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#63 Jul 13 2009 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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Aion might actually surpass WoW Oo

http://www.mmodata.net/
#64 Jul 13 2009 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Maldavian wrote:
Aion might actually surpass WoW Oo

Still unlikely. What has happened recently is that WoW China has been shutdown at least temporarily while the government evaluates the status of WoW. Some 5 million Chinese players cannot play on their WoW accounts. When you combine a new game release with a player base that was recently cut off from their primary game, you're going to see a high boost in subscriptions.

Two additional important points. Early MMORPG trends are not a good indicator of long term growth, as marketing hype and novelty can usually sustain high growth for at least 2 months. Second, most of the subscription base is in Asia, which doesn't affect WEstern markets as much. They also like really weird games, where grinding and RMT are considered features.
#65 Jul 13 2009 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, there's a bit more to it than that.

The9 was a company in china that previously had the operating rights for WoW; this means they sold the timecards, they shuffled the paperwork, and most importantly stored the character data. Blizzard recently let that contract expire and moved onto another company called Netease. This had the Chinese populous in a bit of limbo for a while, until Blizzard was able to strike a bargain with The9 for the character data.

The WotLK expansion pack is a completely separate issue, and is actually the more dangerous of the two. China's government censorship is butting heads with Blizzard. Which happened once before with the undead race, the Forsaken, who had to have their rotting corpses covered with skin before the government censors could give it a pass. This is because as of late the Chinese government has been funny about the undead in movies and videogames; zombies, skeletons, exposed bones of any sort raises a red flag.

So, naturally, Blizzard went an made a whole expansion pack based on this very notion.

Between the awkward fumbling that was The9's service, the awkward fumbling of the transition to Netease's service, followed immediately by the awkward fumbling of Netease's service (who switched on the servers only to realize with a creeping panic that nothing happened) all occurring while the chinese playerbase is still alienated by WotLK's core design...Blizzard earned itself quite a few justifiably unsatisfied customers.

Aion's actually been out for about a year overseas, which is well past the honeymoon phase. While many chinese players may have deflected to Aion initially out of spite, Blizzard did eventually come through and get the character data back. Boredom, I'll give you, there might very well be a number who are just entertaining themselves while Blizzard gets their sh*t together. But let's not take that so far we're not giving Aion it's proper dues, or underplaying just how badly Blizzard dropped the ball.

....Not that I necessarily think Aion will be the WoWkiller, or even that FFXIV will. But I do think 2010 is going to be a year full of options for MMO players.

Edited, Jul 13th 2009 3:14pm by Zemzelette
#66 Jul 13 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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Zemzelette wrote:


....Not that I necessarily think Aion will be the WoWkiller, or even that FFXIV will. But I do think 2010 is going to be a year full of options for MMO players.


Indeed. It will be really interesting to see how the MMO landscape have changed in 2010 if in fact Blizzard will be unable to resolve matters in China. I think we could end with 3 mmo’s, WoW, Aion and FFXIV having each equal share of the MMO market in 2010 ;D

Edited, Jul 13th 2009 3:08pm by Maldavian
#67 Jul 13 2009 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
I played Aion on the chinese servers for a couple of months.It really is something. They did raise the bar in the art/graphics department, because it really is a stunning world. I was happily playing the closest thing to a WOW killer i have seen yet...until they announced FFXIV. Some people think the game play leaves room for desire, but some things about Aion are future trend setters(i hope) for the MMO market.
#68 Jul 13 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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China & Korea have more updated versions.


Actually, the Closed beta you can get into here is identical to China's version...because china has not updated.

China is running 1.0; Korea is about to get patch 1.5, and when Aion releases in September, that's what the US/EU version will be.


It's on that note by the way, that everyone basing 'their friends said' opinions on Aion, would be no different than comparing JP pre-ROTZ FFXI to post.


Also, graphically speaking here's a screen cap of character creation screen at low res, and high res: the difference is amazing.
http://upload.plaync.co.kr/file/download/AION/2008103069a9a3c-11d4d3aed34--4188

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Edit: Also with Aion I heard (If anyone whos actually played that knows can say for sure) that when you craft you can only craft at your guild? I would hate to have to go somewhere specific to craft, I like crafting where and when I want.

I didn't try crafting myself, but my wife would craft whenever she was in someplace safe enough to AFK. Basically you specify what recipe you're doing, the quantity you want, and you can walk away while it cycles through.


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Aion does look great, but the battle system looks too much like FFXI's.

From closed beta there are a lot of things about Aion that remind me quite a bit more of Ragnarok Online, which pre-dates FFXI; Job progression for one, and the chain skills are very much like RO's Monk.

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The scenery is really lovely, **** it would be nice to see the giant animals you saw roaming in the game (giant air whale) along with all the little touches they put everywhere. For instance, when you saw this large glow in the distance, and you drew closer to it, it turned out to be a lone bug just doing... bug things.


There are some nice touches I appreciate like gliding and hitting air thermals which affect your altitude and such.

I also really liked seeing predatory mobs attacking docile ones; reminded me of that Goobbue eating a Mandy video from years and years ago, except that in Aion it actually happens in game :p

Also, there's something very satisfying about jumping off a waterfall a few hundred feet high and waiting to the last moment to spread your wings and keep from splatting.

AND:
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The ability to transfer the stats of any item to the model of any item within the same category for a modest sum. For example, you've recently stumbled upon a major upgrade to your leg slot, but it's subligar. In FFXI you had to parade around in your kinky fetish gear and **** well like it. In Aion's system, you could visit an NPC and transfer the stats of your ugly upgrade to a respectable pair of pants.


And this... a thousand times this :p



All that having been said, Aion doesn't feel like it has the same immersion that FFXI does. To date, I have yet to find an MMO that does.



Edited, Jul 13th 2009 7:06pm by renasci
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#69 Jul 14 2009 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
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WoW, Aion and FFXIV having each equal share of the MMO market in 2010 ;D


Even if 12 million was the maximum amount of MMORPG's players out there (which obviously its not) you would suggest that FFXIV has the potential to get 4 Million subscribers.....hmmmm. I would have said that actually your looking at 6M-8M to be considered equal share but I think 4 Million is still a far stretch for Square.






#70 Jul 17 2009 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Aion does look great, but the battle system looks too much like FFXI's.


Stat comparisions between you and your target are there (i believe).

In terms of the actual combat system though, i really cannot say it looks like ffxis at all. FFxi is a very paced, single skill system with some synergy between classes (skill chains / mbs). Aion has a more frenetic, chained system (ie, use a skill then a set of follow up skills which can only be used after the intial will pop up) with no group interaction to my knowledge (ie no chaining skills off another party memeber).

Quote:
I also really liked seeing predatory mobs attacking docile ones; reminded me of that Goobbue eating a Mandy video from years and years ago, except that in Aion it actually happens in game :p


One of the things i have heard, and hope it is true, is that the third faction (baluur) will either help or hunt you in the abyss depending on the current tide of battle. I think that kind of dynamic is rather interesting in a 3 front war.
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#71 Jul 17 2009 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Aion does look interesting. I am waiting for details on crafting and other side tasks. I do still plan on moving to FFXIV as soon as I can though when it comes out no matter what I am currently playing.
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#72 Jul 18 2009 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Playing the closed beta for Aion has been pretty fun. I think it can hold me over till FFXIV or Star Wars Galaxies(Which actually looks better than all other MMO's otw). 1 place Aion totally trumps FF is the game music...FFXI totally whiffed with it's game music. Hopefully Nobuo can save them. And I know it's not a concern for everyone...but game music is 50% the fun for me
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#73 Jul 19 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Aion does look stunning, but I have to admit I hate extremely complicated character creation where you have bars for everything from eyebrow angle to ear pointiness. This is mostly because I have a hard time making up my mind. I took forever to make my RB2 char. But that being said, I too find FFXI's limited character traits a snoozefest. I'm hoping for something in the middle that can set me apart, but not take me an hour to do.


See for me it's the exact opposite. If I have to stare at my character for possibly years I want it to fit my tastes. I also think the look of your character shouldn't end with the initial creation, there should be options to change appearance in game too.
#74 Jul 19 2009 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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I'm playing the beta now (well, until 2pm CST tomorrow I think) and it's alright. The graphics are nice but the environments don't match the theme of the areas.. I almost wish I could post some photos to show. Best way to explain it is combine Lineage 2 + Secret of Mana + Legend of Dragoon. It borrows heavily (more borderline extreme) from other MMOs.. very pretty but not much originality. Not sure if it will be better once the final version releases but it's mediocre at best =/
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#75 Jul 19 2009 at 11:21 PM Rating: Default
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One of the illusions Blizzard likes to throw at it's players is that they like to 'balance' classes. It's complete bullcrap.

If they ever focused on 'balancing' then they would not constantly shift and change classes, they would pick a mark and stick with it, one class at a time.

Problem with that is that it is boring for the playerbase, so just keep shifting crap around constantly, it keeps it fresh. (and I gotta admit, it keeps it fresh, it is why I look forward to the patches).

If they ever intended to truly 'balance' the game, they would attempt to even out the numbers of accounts playing horde or alliance on each server.

That would require too much work, with zero 'oomph' factor. It would be like old school SE... just making minor adjustments when necessary and not announcing major changes every 3 months... it would be boring, but make sense.

So the question is, would you like your game to make sense and attempt to perfect gameplay? Or do you want to not be bored?

I would rather not be bored. Change it around every 3 months (even if it makes no sense), I want to look forward to things.

****, nerf me to ****, buff my opponent to the extreme... I don't care, just give me something interesting to look forward to. Just don't lie to me and call it 'balancing'. (actually lie to me, that way everyone else is lied to as well and just muddles on).


Edited, Jul 20th 2009 3:23am by Shazaamemt
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#76 Jul 20 2009 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
One of the illusions Blizzard likes to throw at it's players is that they like to 'balance' classes. It's complete bullcrap.

It's not. You could reasonably opined that they failed, but to assert that they deliberately attempt to imbalance classes is some of the most absurd, paranoid tripe I've ever heard.
Shazaamemt wrote:
If they ever focused on 'balancing' then they would not constantly shift and change classes, they would pick a mark and stick with it, one class at a time.

Because balance is dynamic, and observation of effect is delayed.

Any time Blizzard makes any alteration to the game it has the potential to unbalance classes. When new equipment is released, it could benefit some classes more than others. When new content is released it could favor some classes over others. Even when balancing other classes, because of the interdependency of WoW classes in pve content, untouched classes can become unbalanced. It is the uncertainty principle. The mere act of balancing one class has the potential to unbalance others. Everything else doesn't hold constant while you make small changes.

More than that, it takes time to see the full effects of the changes they make. Players will optimize eventually, but not immediately. This means Blizzard is constantly making balanced judgments based on past rather than the present. Every game developer has to drive while looking backwards.
#77 Jul 20 2009 at 4:32 AM Rating: Good
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I pre-ordered Aion and got into the "closed beta" this weekend and I can say without a doubt that the game does not "raise the bar". Don't get me wrong, it's a fun game and I'm glad I made the purchase - I fully intend on playing until FF14 comes out, but imho I don't think it's the beast a lot of people are hoping for.

First of all it's very grindy. The problem with the grind in this game is that it's a solo grind and questing, not a fun grind like FFXI where you're with friends just getting EXP and trying to get better EXP by playing better and pushing your limits. Think vanilla WoW where you would go from point A to point B to quest and keep progressing through different areas in the same manner at level 1 as you do at level 10. Granted I only got a character to 13 and another to 10 but I don't think there is anything revolutionary beyond the "Abyss" which I didn't get to play in.

I think Aion is a good game, it's similar to WoW but it really reminded me more of Guild Wars than it did WoW. The click to move (you can also control with WASD) and the auto-follow on command really sealed the deal for me. You have to actually be engaged with someone to attack them. Jumping around wildly and running through people will get you killed instead of rewarded. The graphics are amazing, this can't be said enough. The bloom effect makes everything really pretty and some of the monster designs are absolutely amazing. It's neat to see giant elephant like creatures just walking around or a dragon in the sky as you quest.

Flight is fun but hard to control at first. There are many areas in which you can't fly so that's a bummer, but you can still glide if you can find an appropriate place to jump from. All in all it's a good game that will keep a lot of people busy and I would suspect might even be some competition for WoW. The game is incredibly stable and runs smoothly. I had very few problems with the game at all, no crashes and only one freeze. The biggest issue I had was the "Game Guard" which is the anti-piracy or hacking tool didn't get along with Avast! running on Windows Vista so in order to play I had to disable the on demand protection, though I think that'll be fixed for launch.
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#78 Jul 20 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

First of all it's very grindy. The problem with the grind in this game is that it's a solo grind and questing, not a fun grind like FFXI where you're with friends just getting EXP and trying to get better EXP by playing better and pushing your limits. Think vanilla WoW where you would go from point A to point B to quest and keep progressing through different areas in the same manner at level 1 as you do at level 10. Granted I only got a character to 13 and another to 10 but I don't think there is anything revolutionary beyond the "Abyss" which I didn't get to play in.


Actually, there are many levels where there are no single person quests to do. Lvl 17-19 ( i believe) come to mind - you either do the group quests to progress the mission, or you simply grind out the level.

It doesn't force your hand like ffxi used to, but it certainly nudges you in the group up direction.

And yeah, the early stages of the game are intended to be linear - for story / background development. I think someone compared it to the deathknight stages in wow - linear, but for the sake of story.
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#79 Jul 20 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Because balance is dynamic, and observation of effect is delayed.

Any time Blizzard makes any alteration to the game it has the potential to unbalance classes. When new equipment is released, it could benefit some classes more than others. When new content is released it could favor some classes over others. Even when balancing other classes, because of the interdependency of WoW classes in pve content, untouched classes can become unbalanced. It is the uncertainty principle. The mere act of balancing one class has the potential to unbalance others. Everything else doesn't hold constant while you make small changes.

More than that, it takes time to see the full effects of the changes they make. Players will optimize eventually, but not immediately. This means Blizzard is constantly making balanced judgments based on past rather than the present. Every game developer has to drive while looking backwards.


That theory only makes sense if the developer doesn't know what abilities the classes have, and that the developers don't know how their changes will affect the game.

Saying that the Developers don't know how their changes will affect the game reveals one of 2 things:

A: they have no clue what they are doing (and lets face it, they know what they are doing over at bliz)

or

B: They just don't want to spend that much time on research and balancing, and would rather just throw as much new and exciting content as they can at the player to keep them interested.

Like I said in my last post, I prefer getting a ton of new content and changes thrown at me, it keeps the game interesting. But to say that WoW has changes that are focused on leveling the playing field is complete bull, it is about catering to the newest player input, and not focusing on the science of resolving problems.

I have no problem with that, I like that the developers listen to players and cater to their input. It makes the game interesting and encourages player involvement with the development, which ultimately leads to a more player-friendly game. Just don't tell me that it is in order to 'balance' or 'perfect' the game. A perfectly balanced or perfected MMORPG would be boring, as there would never be changes to keep it fresh, aside from long waits for a new addition of content or storyline.

'balancing' a MMORPG is just BS, it is an excuse to mix things up, and mixing things up is a good thing.
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#80 Jul 21 2009 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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That theory only makes sense if the developer doesn't know what abilities the classes have, and that the developers don't know how their changes will affect the game.

Saying that the Developers don't know how their changes will affect the game reveals one of 2 things:

A: they have no clue what they are doing (and lets face it, they know what they are doing over at bliz)

or

B: They just don't want to spend that much time on research and balancing, and would rather just throw as much new and exciting content as they can at the player to keep them interested.


I kind of disagree. It is easy to model out dps (in that i agree) it is pretty hard to model out utility and pvp effects for the simple fact that they are almost always subjective and when combined in certain circumstances can be overpowering or underwhelming.

I think of it, as a dev team has what a relatively low amount of people on it - 10 people? 20 people?

A playerbase has hundreds of thousands (if not more in some cases).

A dev team works 40 hours a week on various projects.

A playerbase can have thousands of people working towards on goal (say, the hunter population trying to figure out ideal pvp setups / strats) with a collective time pool that dwarfs the developers.

And, unless the game mechanics are completely hidden and the playerbase has not figured them out (which for most games nowadays it is rare to have no resource to figure out what the mechanics of the game are) the player base can make very smart decisions on how to do things given the tools handed to them, often things the developers did not think of.


And that does not even cover bugs.
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#81 Jul 21 2009 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
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My whole point being, if they were really interested in ironing out all the details, they would just keep each patch in a very very very long development period while they ironed out all the bugs, and tested all the possible exploits and changes.

It would mean an extended period of R&D time between each patch, then focusing on small details over an even longer period of time. Which would lead the players without a bunch of new exciting stuff to look forward to.

If you want to perfectly balance a game, it would take many minor tweaks here and there, and would eat up all the development time.

Instead, Bliz focuses on new content first, and lets the balancing happen as an afterthought to the release of new content and equipment.

I never said it was a bad thing, it was something I stated as a positive.

Quote:
You could reasonably opined that they failed, but to assert that they deliberately attempt to imbalance classes is some of the most absurd, paranoid tripe I've ever heard.


I never said they purposely tried to imbalance classes, I just said they didn't care about balance as much as they did about new content. Then I said it was a good thing.

Oh, and your assumptions across the board are some of the most absurd, paranoid tripe I have ever heard.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2009 3:19am by Shazaamemt
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#82 Jul 22 2009 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
and that the developers don't know how their changes will affect the game.

Bingo. Developers can't foresee all the repercussions their changes have. Every time a developer makes an update they hope it will work the way they intended, but it often doesn't, at least not entirely.
Shazaamemt wrote:
Saying that the Developers don't know how their changes will affect the game reveals one of 2 things

It only reveals they're not precognitive. This isn't specific to the WoW dev team. The FFXI dev team had this exact same problem. Seriously, ninja tanks, doesn't that scream "We don't know how our update will be used by the players"? Every developer has this problem. People make mistakes, and I don't see how you can ever expect anyone to never make a mistake.

That is why we even have updates. If developers knew exactly how players would optimize, exploit, or react to everything they did then they would have made the game perfectly balanced from the start. The reason we have updates is because the developers realize they made a mistake and so now they attempt to fix it. That fix can also contain a mistake.
#83 Jul 22 2009 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
Changing the topic a little bit...

akirussan wrote:
There has also been some speculation about the reintroduction of the Geomancer job. A Geo might be able to conjur sandstorms to blind enemies while fighting in the desert, use elemental magic on specific days of the week, or access water-based spells while fighting near lakes or rivers.


If they do implement Geomancer, I'd like to see it more along the lines of Mog's dances in FFVI. You learn a particular set of skills in an area (i.e. Dusk Requiem in caves, Love Sonata in town, etc.), but you can use them anywhere once you learn them.
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#84 Jul 22 2009 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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My whole point being, if they were really interested in ironing out all the details, they would just keep each patch in a very very very long development period while they ironed out all the bugs, and tested all the possible exploits and changes.


This is probably worse then frequent adjustments. If there was something game breaking about a job / class, it should be fixed as soon as possible. If it affects other classes, then you can adjust them accordingly.

Taking a long time to address things not only leaves your player base wondering if things will ever change and whether or not they should keep playing, but it also leaves you open for slow content updates. Balancing for <x> revision to the game does not mean that it will be balanced in <x.1> version of the game or when a new piece of gear comes out.

I guess, the biggest example i can give you is the state of summoners and ninjas in ffxi and their relative balancing and adjustments over the years.
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#85 Jul 22 2009 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

This is probably worse then frequent adjustments. If there was something game breaking about a job / class, it should be fixed as soon as possible. If it affects other classes, then you can adjust them accordingly.

Taking a long time to address things not only leaves your player base wondering if things will ever change and whether or not they should keep playing, but it also leaves you open for slow content updates. Balancing for <x> revision to the game does not mean that it will be balanced in <x.1> version of the game or when a new piece of gear comes out.

I guess, the biggest example i can give you is the state of summoners and ninjas in ffxi and their relative balancing and adjustments over the years.


Exactly the point I was making.
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#86 Jul 23 2009 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Exactly the point I was making.


I think we are on different sides of this discussion. I think long and drawn out balancing is bad.

MMO communities are fast and dynamic beings. Keeping pace with them is a key mechanic to balancing.

Don't get me wrong, I am definitly in favor of "it is done when it is done" - but testing things to minutiae is flawed. Content will never be released in a timely fashion.

Now, game design might allow you to get away with this with your player base (ffxi is great at that, with the option to level mutliple jobs on a single character) but there is a compounding problem that goes with this.

It might be easy to go from say, 1.0 to 1.5 in terms of game versions, but once your going to 2.5 to 3.0 and such, the level of detail with which you have to go through is tremendous.

Not to mention, if something does slip by (which it will since a developement team can never fully predict or simulate every possible player thought process or accident) it will persist even longer as the delay between patches and balances is tremendous.

Personally, i would rather have a consistant stream of balances that ebb and flow with what the player base finds while being built upon a solid base by the developers.
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#87 Jul 24 2009 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

I think we are on different sides of this discussion.


I don't think we are on different sides here. I think we are on the EXACT same side, but perhaps I didn't make my posts clear enough.

Quote:
I think long and drawn out balancing is bad.


I do too, which is why I am all in favor of the way Bliz handles balancing. Throw new content, worry about balancing later. (as opposed to the old SE method of testing indefinitely for new abilities).

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I am definitly in favor of "it is done when it is done" - but testing things to minutiae is flawed. Content will never be released in a timely fashion.


Exactly the point I was trying to make, once again.

Quote:
Not to mention, if something does slip by (which it will since a developement team can never fully predict or simulate every possible player thought process or accident) it will persist even longer as the delay between patches and balances is tremendous.


Again, exactly the point I was trying to make. I would rather see new content (even if it is not fully tested and perfected) than wait forever for it to be 'up to snuff'


Quote:
Personally, i would rather have a consistant stream of balances that ebb and flow with what the player base finds while being built upon a solid base by the developers.


Well, lets face it, the developers are the Deus Ex Machina of the games, if they want something to be perfected, they could make it happen with extensive testing and a deep knowledge of their own mechanics. But that would be boring.

What you are saying about a 'consistent stream of balances' requires a consistent release of new content. That is fine by me. I like new content, even if it is unbalanced.

That's the difference between playing a game like Diabolo and playing a vibrant MMO... with one you can slowly perfect the gameplay, with the other you need to push out new content, and worry about balancing it later.

We really aren't on opposing sides here, we are just arguing the same point from differing view points.







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#88 Jul 24 2009 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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It's super disappointing to come into this thread looking for replies about the topic only to find ninnies disecting posts... :(

I'm so sad.
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Yay!
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