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#1 Jun 26 2009 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I wannna see epic fights with bahamut, leviathan, atomos, all those summons from FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX etc. It would be cool if you could be able to summon them after fighting them or after accomplishing a certain task. I just wanna see more of those because i was kind of dissapointed FFXI barely had them in it
#2 Jun 26 2009 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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I wish they would create a brand new group of summons. Sure the old ones are great but maybe add a couple new ones. I remember seeing Yojimbo and Anima from FFX, those were two great summons imo, Yojimbo my favorite. If they can retain that kind of flavor, I might consider taking up SMN instead of SAM or NIN.
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#3 Jun 26 2009 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree, i wanna see all the old ones and some even better new ones, i hope they bring back like all forms of bahamut,bahamut zero etc... even the heretic summons too.
#4 Jun 26 2009 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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I agree, i wanna see all the old ones and some even better new ones, i hope they bring back like all forms of bahamut,bahamut zero etc... even the heretic summons too.


I think this is being a little unrealistic, or maybe I am misinterpreting your ideas. Are we talking about summons that the player can call? If so, you have to have a limit to how many potential summons are out there. One summon per element is a pretty good rule of thumb I'd say.

If we are talking about bosses or enemies, it is a bit more plausible to see some of the old favorites (kind of as a nod to FF history).
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#5 Jun 26 2009 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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FFXIBrenno wrote:
I just wanna see more of those because i was kind of dissapointed FFXI barely had them in it


FFXI had a decent amount of them, it's just that not all of them were put in the game as "avatars". Carbuncle, Shiva, Garuda, Titan, Ramuh, Leviathan, Ifrit, Fenrir, and Diabolos are the obvious ones then there's Alexander, Bahamut, Ixion, Odin, Brothers, Pandemonium, Cerberus, Hydra, Kirin, and probabaly more... but those are just the ones off the top of my head.

Then of course there's Cait Sith and Phoenix which are storyline related and you don't actually get to fight.

The teaser trailer shows a big sea-monster looking thing surrounding a ship, which looks like it a has a good chance at being Leviathan. So assuming Leviathan ends up being a summon (or whatever they're called in FFXIV), I'd say there's a shot at summons playing a decent role in the story.
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#6 Jun 26 2009 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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yea lol, i kinda got excited with the idea, yea i agree with you in amount that a player can summon be limited, i also wanna see ones that are stronger than other for example bahamut>ifrit. it would be cool if you could some of them as mounts too, i think that would be insanely awesome
#7 Jun 26 2009 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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yea i know ffxi had good amount but i mean i wanto see more as summonable, mountable, and to appear more in the game, yea i thought that the big sea monster thing on the trailer was leviathan too
#8 Jun 26 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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it would be cool if you could some of them as mounts too, i think that would be insanely awesome


No thanks, the last thing i need is a bunch of "I'm gonna mount shiva" jokes -.-
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#9 Jun 26 2009 at 7:11 PM Rating: Decent
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hehe you got a point
#10 Jun 26 2009 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I think they pretty much got summoner pretty **** right in FFXI, with astral flow being old school attacks, and the way everything plays out.
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#11 Jun 26 2009 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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I think they can introduce more summons, but they should also have more elements. A summon for each element is how it should go down in MMO's. Certain summons have always been associated with particular elements. However, most Final Fantasy's also had a non-elemental property which caused magical damage that was not based on any element. There usually was no defense against these type of attacks other than the spell "Shell". Bahamut's flare attacks were usually of this type, and ignored defense in general.

BTW, FFVII's multiple Bahamut's was pretty much due to one animation per Bahamut summon, which I was dissapointed by as there is only one true Bahamut. I very much like how FFXI's Bahamut is capable of executing all three (Mega, Giga, Tera), and IMO, he should always be a non-summonable character in MMO's due to his shear badassness.
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#12 Jun 27 2009 at 1:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I think summoner could have been much better designed. I would definitely like to see more summons available, each with more abilities and depth, and more control over them. Even perhaps something like in FFX where you controlled your summon entirely.
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#13 Jun 27 2009 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see some kind of system similar to the Junction System in FFVIII.

Have quite a few Summons to find, but obviously only allowed to have a couple 'equiped' at a time and be granted certain 'boosts' from each one.

Example: Garuda - Wind Magic - Improves Silence Resist Rating
Ifrit - Fire Magic - 20% to hit target with Blaze Spikes

And of course as you progress in the game, rather than the summoner learning these kind of passive abilities and traits, the Summons themselves do.
#14 Jun 27 2009 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Something like that would definitely be an improvement, though I think they can do better than the FF8 system.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 Jun 27 2009 at 2:53 AM Rating: Good
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I liked the FFVIII system. The idea that you couldn't have Shiva and Ifrit together on the same character because they were mortal enemies was innotive and it made the player think. I think having something like that for the Summoner would 1: Provide more of a chanllenge nd 2: Not every Summoner is going to be the same as any other, simply because of the Summons he chooses to Equip.

It won't happen, but I think that would add a rather cool and more customisable dynamic to a core FF Job.
#16 Jun 27 2009 at 5:13 AM Rating: Decent
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i agree with the FFVIII system too, but i would like to see it just a little bit improved in FFXIV
#17 Jun 27 2009 at 5:56 AM Rating: Default
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I made a thread about this a couple of days ago and I agree new summons would be nice in this game. But now that I think about it some of those Summons have never been in more than 1~2 maybe 3 FF games which I think is a little bit since there is like 17 FF games out. And as someone else said having 8 summons with each one controlling it element is a great idea then a ultimate one. FFXI tried this but later they made it more confusing with Terrestrial summons being ones that protect some crystals.... They could have done that with the celestial.

Dream list of Summons
~This is anybody opinion I just listed these since they have not been in as many FFs as Shiva and Ifrit. Oh and Bahamut just because players didn't have it in FFXI so might well make it the strongest one they can get.

  • Wind
  • :Yojimbo
  • Fire
  • :Phoenix
  • Thunder
  • :Quezacotl
  • Dark
  • :Anima (I know that she is being held underground in FFX but I see her new version with shiva type body a metal mask that blocks her face and only shows her eyes and chains around her body.)
  • Water
  • :Leviathan or Bismarck
  • Ice
  • :Valigarmanda
  • Earth
  • :Madeen
  • Light
  • :Seraph or Valefor
  • ultimate
  • :Bahamut or Ark
    #18 Jun 27 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
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    I am personally not a fan of limiting summons to 8 or so. If they want to make 20-30 summons they certainly have it in their lore to do so, and it can almost only add depth to the job. I just think that in a game as vast as an MMO, less is not more. More is more.
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    Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

    Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

    Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
    #19 Jun 27 2009 at 6:15 AM Rating: Default
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    I agree that its fun to have many summons too, But the thing is that these summons have "Bloodpacts" aka abilities and with those 9 you have about 70~100 abilities. But let say they want to go back to the old way in this game that they are more like spells then sure the more the better. Im for either way both ways are cool. And I think Summoner would be easier to adjust if they were more like spells. But then I don't think they would add epic battles to get them which would bring some people down. Both ways have there ups and downs.
    #20 Jun 27 2009 at 6:24 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    # Wind
    :Yojimbo


    Yojimbo should go under the element of gil. Smiley: nod

    I'd like to have 2 avatars per element, along with some non-elemental ones.
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    #21 Jun 27 2009 at 6:39 AM Rating: Decent
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    Yojimbo was my favorite summon id have to say.. but it is non-elemental damage :P

    I think they should make more summons have unique looking armor and weapons for the summons. Even Carbuncle could get a metal claw that went up to the shoulder :P

    Could be something that was progressed into even a story as to why their armor was upgraded and have an elemental increase. Such as Ifrit would have a fire breast plate thats all stylish that would boost its tolerance to fire, physical damage and two fire claws that increase its physical damage (also allowing him to attack twice..)
    #22 Jun 27 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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    The more summonable creatures you allow, the more likely they are to have abilities that overlap, unless SE can be pretty creative. Given that the current nine summonable avatars do have abilities that overlap, and have attacks that basically do the same thing with just different animations, I highly doubt it. I'm for having more summons, but not a whole lot more. Maybe 11, 12 tops.

    This doesn't mean that the class cannot be improved. You can give the summoner certain abilities, strengths and weaknesses while a summon is out. For instance, the summoner will become immune to all fire based magic spells and attacks while Ifrit is present, and have a considerable amount of resistance to ice, but at the same time will become weak to water. You can increase evasion and movement speed while Garuda is present, and give the summoner the ability to cast spells like gravity that are not available to the summon. Just some ideas I'm throwing out there.

    Odin would be awesome to have, but his signature and most popular attack, "Zantetsuken" would be ineffective against most mobs unless SE allows instant KO's, and even then, it would still be unusable against more powerful creatures.
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    #23 Jun 27 2009 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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    I LOVE summons and I'm all about the more the merrier. While I know there's no chance this could actually happen I'd think it might be interesting to have multiple summons per element that fulfilled different roles. Instead of water being the "healing element" you have 1 water based avatar for healing/support, 1 for DD, something like that.

    This also keys into my desire to see the avatar take a much much more active role, no more summon for 5 seconds and release. I think one of the real problems with FFXI's pet jobs was having to balance the master and the pet. Buff one and you risk making the duo overpowered when compared to the other jobs, so they tend to get left behind.

    I'd like to see the summoner him/herself become little more then a conduit to bring the avatar forth, more like Yuna in FF10.
    #24 Jun 27 2009 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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    Why not change the spell list the summoner personally uses outside of telling the avatar what to do? Like say if you had ifrit out, you have access to fire based spells that help you dish out damage, along with telling him to do special abilities every 30 seconds or however quick. Also, if you have certain avatars that can heal, you get access to healing abilities. Causing you to want to keep your avatars out for long periods of time. (so remove perpetuation cost? :D)
    #25 Jun 27 2009 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    The more summonable creatures you allow, the more likely they are to have abilities that overlap, unless SE can be pretty creative. Given that the current nine summonable avatars do have abilities that overlap, and have attacks that basically do the same thing with just different animations, I highly doubt it. I'm for having more summons, but not a whole lot more.


    SE was either not very creative with FFXI, or they had severe technical limitations. But much of the limitations with gameplay in FFXI stem from a very simple combat system from launch. There was just not enough to work with. One would expect that XIV's gameplay will be more intricate than XI's and that it will allow for less overlap.

    Overlapping abilities isn't a bad thing. There's overlap in all things, but they manifest in different ways. In this case, they manifest as different avatars.
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    Hyrist wrote:
    Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

    Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

    Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
    #26 Jun 27 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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    Yeah, there was far too little of spells and abilities in FFXI... I like the fact that they introduced new jobs such as scholar and only gave it a minute amount of new spells.. What happened to a new job getting all new spells? Was it not possible?

    and on that note, I really hope that if they have classes that have damage over time abilities and spells, that they do alot more damage than in FFXI. And please allow higher scaling with stats. Ever had a high level blm cast poison on a low level mob? (like level 1-3) and have to wait the full duration of poison and reapply even just to kill with the dot alone? >.>; yeah.
    #27 Jun 27 2009 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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    out of topic but still;
    The problem wasn't overlaping ability, it was the fact you were summonning only for 1 ability so you didnt need to use the summon itself. For exemple, we summon titan pop stoneskin, and instead of doing an ability that attack and let him melee until you can use stoneskin again, we just une another summon with a better ability which make other titan ability totally useless. If you remove perpetuation cost, it would partly solve some problems. Like in what mmo any type of summoner's summmon cost mp over time or anything at all, pay crap load of mp 1 time to get him out and thats it. and allow something like resting when the summon is not engaged so you dont have to call him off. there should not have only been carby that you could have out 100% of the time in ffxi.

    Two avator per element please. even if some ability overlap, who cares, just chose the avator you like for for some situation, like healing tanking DD, the day of the element. I could see an avator used as first line job for tanking in the new system, so why not.

    element support and role that could be done for exemple, i know ffxi summon are getting old but i know them best and they suit well for the exemple, they could use other avator with the same role. Im not saying they should add these but like 2 of each element would be good. 1 set you unlock mid low lvl, and one set mid high lvl. and some around random lvl between that for dark/light/non-elemental. some you get by quest, some fight, some buy(yuss for yojimbo).

    Fire :
    ifrit: DD/tank , pheonix: DD/heal, salamander)
    Water :
    leviatan: DD/heal , Siren: Buff/Debuff, Bismark: Heal/whatever)
    Ice :
    Shiva: DD/Whatever, + a new one maybe.)
    thunder :
    Quetzalcoatl: DD/something , ramuh: DD/buff, ixion)
    earth :
    Titan: Tank/buff , brothers/minautor/maudwin/kjata: DD/whatever)
    wind :
    Garuda: Buff/DD, Pendemonium/Sylph: Healing whatever)
    dark/light:
    Diabolos/carby/anima/ultima(lol)/valefor/hades whatever others, there is ton of them)
    non elemental:
    Cactuar/odin/yojimbo) they need to add them.

    for exemple, in wind day/weather you want to heal, rater then using leviatan you would use sylph, for additionnal healing or less mp cost for the avator spell due to the day/weather. you get the idea.

    Edited, Jun 27th 2009 4:12pm by banzaii
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    #28 Jun 27 2009 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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    Bring back 10 minute summon sequences woooo!
    I'm looking at you Ark and Eden!

    Seriously though I miss seeing the cool intro scenes, especially the ones in FF10 where yuna got thrown about in all directions, it was just fun...
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    #29 Jun 27 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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    I had smn 75 even tho I didn't use it very much, but that being said I didn't mind the system ffxi had for smn. Sure it could be improved upon, and I do think maybe this time you should need to have your summon out more rather then just BP and desummon, but it wasn't bad. I thought smn was powerful enough in ffxi so I disagree will all of the make them more powerful discussions, but I do see how it can be improved so you use summons more. I didn't use smn much because blm was my main and was best equipped, but when I used smn it was because it didn't draw hate. I think this is the most important thing about smn that many people overlook, this is what made it powerful enough along with the BP damage, good buffs, high mp, and ability to support.

    That being said, I liked the idea that you had a summon for each element along with the higher summons. I don't think you should have 20+ summons, I thought ffxi gave you plenty to play with. I would like to make summons a bigger part of maybe the storyline this time, or more hnm type battles (like a few is in ffxi now).
    #30 Jun 27 2009 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    I had smn 75 even tho I didn't use it very much, but that being said I didn't mind the system ffxi had for smn. Sure it could be improved upon, and I do think maybe this time you should need to have your summon out more rather then just BP and desummon, but it wasn't bad. I thought smn was powerful enough in ffxi so I disagree will all of the make them more powerful discussions, but I do see how it can be improved so you use summons more. I didn't use smn much because blm was my main and was best equipped, but when I used smn it was because it didn't draw hate. I think this is the most important thing about smn that many people overlook, this is what made it powerful enough along with the BP damage, good buffs, high mp, and ability to support.

    That being said, I liked the idea that you had a summon for each element along with the higher summons. I don't think you should have 20+ summons, I thought ffxi gave you plenty to play with. I would like to make summons a bigger part of maybe the storyline this time, or more hnm type battles (like a few is in ffxi now).



    Given that everything is going to be different in this game. Who is to say FFXIV's jobs will be in another league than XI's. I can almost guarantee it in a world of uncertainty that if you make a game world harder, and you are still able to solo much of its content as you quest and gain strength, isn't it a better idea to talk about a job such as summoner as what we can expect to happen rather than drudge up the system that XI had, which worked for that game. That's all i'm saying :D
    #31 Jun 27 2009 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    Given that everything is going to be different in this game. Who is to say FFXIV's jobs will be in another league than XI's. I can almost guarantee it in a world of uncertainty that if you make a game world harder, and you are still able to solo much of its content as you quest and gain strength, isn't it a better idea to talk about a job such as summoner as what we can expect to happen rather than drudge up the system that XI had, which worked for that game. That's all i'm saying :D


    This is true but it doesn't matter if its a new game, or and old game jobs will have to be balanced in any game (balancing is important in any mmo). This being said I'm not saying that it will be like ffxi, i'm saying that power wise it was powerful enough. Everything can be completely different and it can still have the same sense of power as in another game. To say "in another league", makes me think your idea of the job will be way overpowering and not likely. So basically i'm expecting it will be more or less the same sense of power, as in ffxi, i'm not drudging on the system to say it will play the same. You can use a brand new system, jobs still have to be balanced, and i'm just saying most of the ideas here sound very overpowering.
    #32 Jun 27 2009 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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    enough powerfull , maybe, but certainly very situationnal and not attractive to play a healer with gimp cure to lvl 75 lvl, unless you were very lucky. i'll be happy in anyway they are able to change that and make them SUMMONNER, not Gimpohealer.

    Edited, Jun 27th 2009 9:41pm by banzaii
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