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Unique in game item for those who played FFXI?Follow

#52 Jul 05 2009 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I have absolutely no idea why there is such opposition to the idea.

It'll most likely be a useless trinket, that confers no advantage, or benefit, but just something as a keepsake, or reminder of your time with FFXI.

Why on earth would it be "unfair" to people who didn't play FFXI, when the only relevance it would have, is for players of FFXI?

The exaggerated claims of "It'll make a divide!" are pretty ridiculous. Honestly, people are insulting both sides of the coin [FFXI players, and non-FFXI players] by implying that they couldn't possibly get past petit squabbles of who played what.

I think a lot of people have fallen into the idea that it would give some players some unbeatable advantage, which is silly, as from the start, it was suggested as a vanity item, if that.

Look at it for what it would be, and not what it could be if we lived in a world where everything was exaggerated to **** and back.

A useless, vanity item, that means something to only FFXI players, that offers no advantage, and could potentially be visible to only that player.
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#53 Jul 05 2009 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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ScorpionEx wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why there is such opposition to the idea.

It'll most likely be a useless trinket, that confers no advantage, or benefit, but just something as a keepsake, or reminder of your time with FFXI.

Why on earth would it be "unfair" to people who didn't play FFXI, when the only relevance it would have, is for players of FFXI?

The exaggerated claims of "It'll make a divide!" are pretty ridiculous. Honestly, people are insulting both sides of the coin [FFXI players, and non-FFXI players] by implying that they couldn't possibly get past petit squabbles of who played what.

I think a lot of people have fallen into the idea that it would give some players some unbeatable advantage, which is silly, as from the start, it was suggested as a vanity item, if that.

Look at it for what it would be, and not what it could be if we lived in a world where everything was exaggerated to **** and back.

A useless, vanity item, that means something to only FFXI players, that offers no advantage, and could potentially be visible to only that player.


If you are unable to let go of FFXI and adventure out into a new era, then perhaps you should stay with FFXI, because it seems ridiculous to me to hold onto an item that's 100% worthless just to "remind me" of the times I had in a completely different game... if you want to reminisce about your time in FFXI, take screenshots.

#54 Jul 05 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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ScorpionEx wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why there is such opposition to the idea.

It'll most likely be a useless trinket, that confers no advantage, or benefit, but just something as a keepsake, or reminder of your time with FFXI.

Why on earth would it be "unfair" to people who didn't play FFXI, when the only relevance it would have, is for players of FFXI?

The exaggerated claims of "It'll make a divide!" are pretty ridiculous. Honestly, people are insulting both sides of the coin [FFXI players, and non-FFXI players] by implying that they couldn't possibly get past petit squabbles of who played what.

I think a lot of people have fallen into the idea that it would give some players some unbeatable advantage, which is silly, as from the start, it was suggested as a vanity item, if that.

Look at it for what it would be, and not what it could be if we lived in a world where everything was exaggerated to **** and back.

A useless, vanity item, that means something to only FFXI players, that offers no advantage, and could potentially be visible to only that player.


If you can't understand at this point, you may have a problem.

I'll try to break it down again.

It's a different game.
Giving FFXI players an exclusive item for joining is just going to upset players who aren't from FFXI.

Things like this are just cause for drama.

Sure, you can pretend our community is too evolved for little squabbles over items... well, you'd be surprised.

Since you're going on about how useless you want this item to be, why can't we just avoid it, and the drama altogether?

If it was a direct FFXI sequel something like this might be reasonable, but it isn't.
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#55 Jul 05 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah. You have to remember that this will be just a drop in the bucket of a bigger fear many gamers have, and it only takes one drop to make it overflow.

The issue has nothing to do with the item in general. Since we are assuming that it won't give any actual bonus to the players (meaning it will be something aesthetic only, without any gameplay value), the item isn't what is drawing the disapproval.

And, as many people have said, it is this: FFXIV is a new game.

We don't want to see FFXI-2 (or, if we do, we don't want XIV to be it).

Giving players from the old game something for the new is just so self-serving that it adds to the fear that SE is just going to be developing the game around what the XI crowd wants, not what will make the game as fun as possible for the most people.

Plus, there is no logical argument for why XI players deserves something over those that didn't have an account.

I have played: FFIV, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFX-2, FFXI, FFXII and I plan to play FFXIII. And that is just that one genre of square games. Add in others, like KH and more, and I've given them a LOT of business over the years.

But, I don't think that means SE OWES me anything. I got what I paid for with each title--fun and enjoyment coming from it. Certain things were made better the longer I stuck around, so it is almost like SE WAS thanking me for playing (like seeing Moogles, airships and the new Cid in each title).

I work at an ice-cream shop in a beach town, where we get a lot of locals and tourists alike. Sometimes, people come in saying things like, "I've been coming here every summer for 15 years!" But, that doesn't mean I give them special treatment. They wait in line like everyone else. They pay the same prices. They get the same amount of ice cream, sprinkles, toppings, etc. as everyone else.

Which is better: I work harder on the old customer, making them come for another 15 years but causing the other customers to notice special treatment or I give them the same treatment of any customer (and I try to be warm and inviting to all), so that other customers may want to come back for 15 years?

If you aren't getting enough from XI to warrant your subscription, you should have cancelled it long before that was an issue. XIV is a new game, with a new player base with a new system. SE certainly wants the XI folk to go over there (though, they also want them to continue to play XI if that means more money). But, they want to get people from all over into the game--new players, WoW players, XI players, tabletop players, etc.

You will get the same treatment as everyone else. If that isn't rewarding enough, than a MMO isn't for you. I suggest playing a single-player game, where everything is designed to benefit the one.
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#56 Jul 05 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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akelah wrote:
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[12:28] "Also, FFXIV will not be using the PlayOnline system. However, the friends list will be transferred over to the FFXIV system."

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6210518/square-enix-considering-ffxiv-online-for-microsoft-hardware


To me that sounds far more complicated a task than adding a FFXI keep sake. There's a lot to even consider since the friend list is connected with the account on POL. Its a good idea, I just can't get my head around it. And all that's even assuming the people who are on your FL go into FFXIV and on the same server... I guess that proves if they're doing this, we'll be able to pick our own servers since they obviously don't want friends to be seperated :D

Edit:

I read that quote again from the conference and I don't think it means individual friends for every account will be moved over to your FFXIV account. That's such a momoth task. I'm understanding that to say - they will be using the same KIND of friends list system as was used on POL. That's just my interpritation, I could be wrong. But this wouldn't be the first time something has gotten lost in translation...

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 11:04am by akelah


Assuming all of it wasn't already in their intranet, they already have half of it done. Your SquareEnix account will be used for FFXIV, we know this because they said you can use your tokens with FFXIV. Your SquareEnix account is linked to your POL account. All that's left is extracting the data(essentially just the POL ID and/or the SE account linked to it).

Anyways, on topic, all they're doing to ease the transition of FFXI players(same races, friend lists), it wouldn't surprise me for them to add some more things to help smooth it.

Edited, Jul 5th 2009 4:25pm by valid
#57 Jul 05 2009 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
a lot of very good points


i agree wholeheartedly with what you just said, and I want to point out from the get-go that if no legacy item is implemented, it will have 0 effect on my enjoyment or lack thereof of FFXIV. That being said, I fully expect SE to offer a legacy item for FFXI players. It just makes good business sense.

2009-10 is shaping up to be a pretty hefty MMO season- aion, champions online, StarWars:TOR, FFXIV, and those are just the vanguard. FFXI is pretty dated... While I refuse to be a part of the "FFXI is dieing" crowd, there WILL be some(pretty significant) subscription losses over the next year/year and a half, even if only temporary ones(FFXI has a huge recidivism* rate). A legacy item is a very strong pull for certain types of players, even if, as it had better be, it's purely aesthetic.

SE understands the power of symbolic lures as advertising, that's pretty much the sole reason that FFXI was made a numbered "final fantasy". The game itself was probably strong enough to survive on its own, but making it a FF, that drew in a starting player base that might never had made the jump to a MMO, myself among them. With the upcoming year+ SE is looking at a subscription base that is gonna start getting restless legs and wandering eyes, a legacy item in FFXIV could be the kind of lure to ensure that while FFXI might lose some of its profit, the MMO branch of SquareEnix doesn't.

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#58 Jul 05 2009 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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No offence but an ice-cream shop is small fry compared to the bigger businesses out there and the one thing that makes them sucessful? Customer Service/Relations. I've worked for a number of companies. From Vodafone (Mobile or Cell phone company, to those in the US) to Hotels. From Factories to Nursing Homes. And the one common thing running through each one, is looking out for your customers. Its good business sense to not only ensure you're giving the customer what they pay for, but to make them feel special too. They're not only more willing to part with their money but actually get something back from doing so, the fact that they feel like they're worth more than just money in the bank or a signed cheque. A smile in an introduction. Making conversation with the customer rather than putting them on hold while you sort out a query. All of these things I was trained to do in my customer service and relations degree. I respect what you're saying about providing equal treatment to all and not giving back anything more than EXACTLY what they pay for, because as soon as another ice-cream shop opens, that offers, just that little bit more in the service, people will start to flock there. So I'm afraid the example you provided was a little off.

It's already been said that other games companies/developers are doing this. Play and Amazon often offer unique items when you buy direct from them. It's yet to cause the massive online riots people here are predicting. Mythic Blizzard, again I've already given exa,ples how what they have done have worked to reward their regular customers and fans or series'.

But I guess WoW and WAR players are more mature than your average FF player since... well I've not seen this sort of attitude there. Or maybe the doom sayer just need to give us as a community as chance. There is always going to disagreements in this game, it was the same seven years ago and it will continue to like this till we evolve or kill each other. But if your only argument is that FFXIV is a 'completely different game' then why is the friends list (a massive feat) being migrated over to FFXIV with your account? Or that 'the community will suffer as a consequence', to those who would raise up in arms over something so small and meaningless, to something that someone might get just a tiny bit of pleasure from, I say grow up.
#59 Jul 05 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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I think we need to stop making the assumption that the our community is going to be the only community on FFXIV, and that this is just some sort of migration.

Honestly, this idea for a unique item reward just seems like another desperate plea from former advocators of a character transfer.
People who just can't tear themselves away from their virtual accomplishments on FFXI and feel that they deserve some sort of advantage if they start playing something new.


I only read this part of your post and I really dont feel like wadding through the rest because you haven't got a f**king clue about what I meant.

Go sub to DAoC and then to WAR and apply for the free-bie item there and you will see what I mean, other-wise, dont presume you know me. Thanks.
#60 Jul 05 2009 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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You must not have read what I said. I gave it as an example, not a comparison. I very clearly stated the differences between the two and the reason why I used it as an example...I'm not going to go over it again and again trying to make you understand as you obviously don't want to.


You dont need to go through it again, I'm already quite well aware how bad an example it was.
#61 Jul 05 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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No offence but an ice-cream shop is small fry compared to the bigger businesses out there and the one thing that makes them sucessful? Customer Service/Relations. I've worked for a number of companies. From Vodafone (Mobile or Cell phone company, to those in the US) to Hotels. From Factories to Nursing Homes. And the one common thing running through each one, is looking out for your customers. Its good business sense to not only ensure you're giving the customer what they pay for, but to make them feel special too.


I was talking about the customer reactions, not the business. Those vary remarkably little across different businesses (I, too, have seen everything from Hotels to corporate to small businesses).

Yes, a company needs to make customers feel wanted. But, they also have to make sure they don't alienate others, or to send the message that they prefer one group over another. That is TERRIBLE business. While you may go out of your way to help a customer you expect repeat business from, you should never so ANYTHING for them that you won't do for the next customer. Ever. Because that can only lead to bitter feelings on the latter party, and likely won't be enough of a boost to the first that it is the deal-breaker on their next visit.

Like, going back to the ice cream shop scenario. If they come up and ask for extra toppings and I don't charge them, the next customer is going to feel vindicated if I DO charge them for extra, even though it is my right to do so. Losing one visit from the second party will probably hurt the business more, overall, than charging the first person.

Adding a legacy item may make the FFXI players feel connected, but it has the reverse effect of instilling envy in the other players, as well as a feeling of neglect on SE's part.

If this was the only case it would appear, I'd say the item was a good bet. But, because the possibility of XI-favoritism is a serious worry amongst MANY possible players that I've talked to, I'm inclined to think the item is unwise. Will it be the trigger that keeps players from trying the game? Very few if any. But, it will make the other events worse.

FFXI players are already getting bonuses others don't. You get to keep your name--that is your legacy item.
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#62 Jul 05 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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I don't see anyone in WoW complaining that they don't have the panda from buying the original collector's edition. Or anyone complaining about not getting the frost dragon pet from the Lich King collector's edition.

Why is anyone against FFXI players getting a little token in FFXIV to show they played through FFXI? It could even be a house only item, like a map of Vana'diel.

Seriously, if you are going to get ****** off at someone else having a trivial item you don't....

What about the items in WoW available only by buying their card game? I don't see uprisings against that.

Yes, let the FFXI's get a little something. It's not like it will break the game.
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#63 Jul 05 2009 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
I don't see anyone in WoW complaining that they don't have the panda from buying the original collector's edition. Or anyone complaining about not getting the frost dragon pet from the Lich King collector's edition.

Why is anyone against FFXI players getting a little token in FFXIV to show they played through FFXI? It could even be a house only item, like a map of Vana'diel.

Seriously, if you are going to get ****** off at someone else having a trivial item you don't....

What about the items in WoW available only by buying their card game? I don't see uprisings against that.

Yes, let the FFXI's get a little something. It's not like it will break the game.


The thought seems to be that if the 'bonus' is something flamboyant and visible (like a big flashing hat) it will make it even easier for the elitists among the FFXI players to tell who is and isn't new and shun them accordingly. Just look around these forums for a minute, look at all the casual/WoW-player hate. It's not exactly a stretch to imagine there being some "FFXI-flashing-hat only" LS's.

I don't think it's all that bad, and asses will be asses regardless. A little flag for your player residence would be cute. But there's something of a valid concern behind the thought.
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#64 Jul 05 2009 at 10:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Those 'flashing-hat' LS's already exist before the game even has hit beta.

****, there is an Allakhazam LS already in the works on this very board.

I still see no reasonable argument against giving FFXI players a little token in game.

Just a bunch of people who want to be in the 'flashing-hat' LS who haven't played FFXI.
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#65 Jul 05 2009 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, a company needs to make customers feel wanted. But, they also have to make sure they don't alienate others, or to send the message that they prefer one group over another. That is TERRIBLE business.


I fail to see how this is alienating anyone at all. As Shazaamemt has pointed out - you're still going to get the 'eliteism' and you're still going to get the jerks who favour one type of player over another. That's no reason not to give away a little token. You and many others who have jumped on this thread are really looking to hard into this idea and seeing it for more than it really is and I think you're not giving the community as a whole a chance, rather than just expecting them all to act like children and kick off over this.

But as an asside, what I quoted of you... Many companies have a star-rating system when it comes to customers and depending on the star, certain leniancies can be made. In the same 30 minutes I have refused one customer one thing, but granted it to the second simply because of this rating. Its standard practice to look after the one whos paying or paid you more. Terrible yes, but still standard.

I've played FFXI for four years and I'm still doing so. I've had breaks in between but I've always came back and I've never even thought of selling my account because that character is precious to me. When FFXIV comes out I will be saying goodbye forever to everything she accomplished and all that she fought to attain. To have a small piece of that place and time, sitting in my Mog-House would be wonderful for me. Like a artifact! Dug up after some random quest to get it. A piece of the past that I won't ever forget.

Edited, Jul 6th 2009 9:47am by akelah
#66 Jul 06 2009 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:

Just a bunch of people who want to be in the 'flashing-hat' LS who haven't played FFXI.


I don't think most of the people participating in that side of the debate haven't played FFXI. ****, I played FFXI but it's not like I'm beyond the realm of understanding the point.

You're aware of how insufferably elitist "The real problem is that they're just jealous of our awesome hat" sounds, by the way? Not trying to offend, just pointing out.
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#67 Jul 06 2009 at 7:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't see anyone in WoW complaining that they don't have the panda from buying the original collector's edition. Or anyone complaining about not getting the frost dragon pet from the Lich King collector's edition.


Side note: I see a TON of people complaining they can't get a panda without shelling out 1K on ebay.

Plus, that is completely different. You are talking about getting something within the scope of one game. That is normal--if you've played since launch or beta, you are going to have items that are no longer available.

The difference is that this is a new game. People who are going to start at launch or beta won't be pleased others get a special item because they played the last FF MMO.

Quote:
I fail to see how this is alienating anyone at all. As Shazaamemt has pointed out - you're still going to get the 'eliteism' and you're still going to get the jerks who favour one type of player over another. That's no reason not to give away a little token. You and many others who have jumped on this thread are really looking to hard into this idea and seeing it for more than it really is and I think you're not giving the community as a whole a chance, rather than just expecting them all to act like children and kick off over this.


I don't care about the player elitism. That is them being them, and I'll avoid them as they'll avoid me (and I DID play FFXI). I'm worried about the company appearing to sanction said elitism. That will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. A legacy item will contribute to that, if the majority of players with it are the elitist ones (and that will depend on how they work it).

Quote:
But as an asside, what I quoted of you... Many companies have a star-rating system when it comes to customers and depending on the star, certain leniancies can be made. In the same 30 minutes I have refused one customer one thing, but granted it to the second simply because of this rating. Its standard practice to look after the one whos paying or paid you more. Terrible yes, but still standard.


The only systems like that I have seen are membership ones. And, in that case, any customer can shell out the cash at any time to get the same benefit. So, while they may not get the same treatment, they CAN get it. That is different than what this is. Do other companies use other systems, hidden from public view? Of course. How often do hotels treat rich celebrities like regular customers? Granted, part of this is that they are usually in the suites and are thus dropping a ton of cash in the place, so it kinda works as the membership-type thing. Better treatment is included in the cost of the room.

Quote:
I've played FFXI for four years and I'm still doing so. I've had breaks in between but I've always came back and I've never even thought of selling my account because that character is precious to me. When FFXIV comes out I will be saying goodbye forever to everything she accomplished and all that she fought to attain. To have a small piece of that place and time, sitting in my Mog-House would be wonderful for me. Like a artifact! Dug up after some random quest to get it. A piece of the past that I won't ever forget.


No one is saying the XI players wouldn't like it. What we are questioning is whether or not the bonus to FFXI players is worth the bad taste from the XIV ones. People are already worrying that this game may fall into the same holes as XI (and the blatant referencing with the races didn't help). The more connections that appear between the games, the worse this gets.

It's best to just let it be.

HOWEVER, I CAN think of one thing that would act as a legacy item for XI players, but still offer the others a chance to obtain an item.

I'm picturing a mannequin-like statue thing, awarded from a "Welcome to Eorzea" starter quest that gives background on the world and such. You will get a statue that you can customize in the form of a FFXIV or FFXI race. The XI one will show the race in the normal clothes, or maybe AF. The XIV one will act like the mannequins in XI did, allowing you to put gear on them.

You'd be able to change the XI one to a XIV one at any time, but not the other way around.

That way, players that want a legacy item get it. Players who didn't play FFXI still get an equal reward (though it will bring them less pleasure, not having played FFXI). And, by allowing only a one-way switch, you ensure that it remains more precious over time. *note* The Mannequin is not storage and may only show gear that is in your "bank."
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#68 Jul 06 2009 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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The difference is that this is a new game.


Wrong, this is the 14th edition of a long running series. And if it's so new and has nothing to do with FFXi - why then are they bringing over the FFXI accounts and freinds lists there-of?

Quote:
I'm worried about the company appearing to sanction said elitism. That will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.


They've already sanctioned elitism in the past. All FFXI was (I say was because they've incorporated a lot of changes to counter that in some respects, its a little more solo friendly now-a-days. Not much, but a little) was a server full of players trying to get that certain piece of something. God help you if you were a BLM with-out a Moldivate or a DRK with our a Hauby (Think it was Hauby, I play mage mostly and didn't especially need the heavy armour stuff). I think you see my point here. Again you like others are seeing this suggestion as some kind of 'drug' everyone wants because it some how makes you better for having it. Well it wont and so it will not have this devastating effect that you're predicting.

Quote:
The only systems like that I have seen are membership ones.


Not sure what you mean by that, isn't every company offering membership in some sense of the word? Any time you pay regularly for a service, that means your subscribing to that service and are thus a member? Gas, Electric, Phone, Mobile/Cell, Broadband, Credit Card, Banks, Travel costs. The fact is if you keep going back to the same companies for the same service you are going to be treated better because it makes good sense to look after those kinds of people. But again, this isn't SE giving previous subscribers of FFXI anything of value. It's a MOMENTO. To be used as nothing more than a keep-sake. If it was a weapon, or a piece of armour with stats that no one else will ever be able to get, then I could see your point. But it's not meant to be that. So again, your terrible predictions of all life on FFXIV ending is pretty...far-fetched.

Quote:
What we are questioning is whether or not the bonus to FFXI players is worth the bad taste from the XIV ones.


What bonus?

Quote:
I'm picturing a mannequin-like statue thing, awarded from a "Welcome to Eorzea" starter quest that gives background on the world and such. You will get a statue that you can customize in the form of a FFXIV or FFXI race. The XI one will show the race in the normal clothes, or maybe AF. The XIV one will act like the mannequins in XI did, allowing you to put gear on them.


I like this idea. While I never intended this item to be in anyway responsible for some kind of divide, I never once said it would be a bad idea to let others get it! maybe I should have made myself clearer but I don't know how since I've been pounding my head against the key-board trying to work out why soemthing like this would cause an all out War between the two factions!

I do think the Mannequin is a little...urm BIG but your getting me now. Something connected to FFXI BUT available to others in its FFXIV form. Yes, thank you!
#69 Jul 06 2009 at 7:43 PM Rating: Good
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Wrong, this is the 14th edition of a long running series. And if it's so new and has nothing to do with FFXi - why then are they bringing over the FFXI accounts and freinds lists there-of?


FF isn't a series, at least in the classical sense of the world. A series denotes a connection, and the only one FF games have is that they are made by the same company, have a FEW reoccurring elements (which vary wildly) and are generally released in order by number.

Final Fantasy is more of a label for a game, to denote that.

And they are bringing over the accounts because they can. That is good business--to make it easier for people to connect. If they could transfer friends lists from WoW, EQII, War, and others they would. SE hopes that XI players will move onto FFXIV, and with good reason--it'll make them more money. Making it easy for them to do so is normal. They aren't getting anything a normal player can't have (friends lists and accounts), they just aren't forcing players with existing ones to remake them (which is actually a money sink for SE, even if a small one).

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They've already sanctioned elitism in the past. All FFXI was (I say was because they've incorporated a lot of changes to counter that in some respects, its a little more solo friendly now-a-days. Not much, but a little) was a server full of players trying to get that certain piece of something. God help you if you were a BLM with-out a Moldivate or a DRK with our a Hauby (Think it was Hauby, I play mage mostly and didn't especially need the heavy armour stuff). I think you see my point here. Again you like others are seeing this suggestion as some kind of 'drug' everyone wants because it some how makes you better for having it. Well it wont and so it will not have this devastating effect that you're predicting.


Nothing you've said here is them "sanctioning" elitism. Actually, it says the opposite. SE saw NM farming and elitism, and offered EX versions of popular items and increased solo ability. The game itself was designed with T-VT targets in mind, with small groups. Targets that people could take with average gear. It is the players that developed the elitism and drive to go after IT mobs.

Most of SE's actions over the years have been to try and stop elitism, from nerfing the severly OP jobs to trying and make solo content viable.

Now add in the latest changes, like level syncing.

Your argument doesn't hold up. Just because elitism appeared in one of SE's games, doesn't mean they sanctioned it. When on highways, I see people going 20 mph over the speed limit, that doesn't mean the government is okay with that. Rather, the evidence points to the opposite.

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by that, isn't every company offering membership in some sense of the word? Any time you pay regularly for a service, that means your subscribing to that service and are thus a member? Gas, Electric, Phone, Mobile/Cell, Broadband, Credit Card, Banks, Travel costs. The fact is if you keep going back to the same companies for the same service you are going to be treated better because it makes good sense to look after those kinds of people. But again, this isn't SE giving previous subscribers of FFXI anything of value. It's a MOMENTO. To be used as nothing more than a keep-sake. If it was a weapon, or a piece of armour with stats that no one else will ever be able to get, then I could see your point. But it's not meant to be that. So again, your terrible predictions of all life on FFXIV ending is pretty...far-fetched.


I have NEVER seen a gas or electric company treat someone better because they've been with them for a long time. My parents just switched their phone/internet provider because they found a blatantly better deal (without looking for it) and they had the old company for over a decade.

And it is funny how I never predicted all life on FFXIV ending. I suggested that this was a DROP IN THE BUCKET. I didn't claim it was an ocean over NYC.

Quote:
What bonus?


...The bonus we've been talking about in this whole thread... The momento item. The happiness given from a momento item. If it isn't going to give the XI players joy, than it is pointless to even discuss it from the start.

Quote:
I like this idea. While I never intended this item to be in anyway responsible for some kind of divide, I never once said it would be a bad idea to let others get it! maybe I should have made myself clearer but I don't know how since I've been pounding my head against the key-board trying to work out why soemthing like this would cause an all out War between the two factions!

I do think the Mannequin is a little...urm BIG but your getting me now. Something connected to FFXI BUT available to others in its FFXIV form. Yes, thank you!


^^

If SE can give those nods to its past without alienating the others, all will be good. But, if they can't, it is probably better to let the past go (but, learn from it of course).

I mean, take a company like Blizzard. Before starting WoW, I had played Diablo I and II, Starcraft, and 3 different WC games (and expacs). I didn't get anything more because of that. Rather, seeing the nods the game had to the other games was my "momento." Like the Wirt's leg item, or Kerrigan's picture.

I think the races of XIV count in this sense. When you can have a character that looks nearly the same, I don't see why another momento is needed.
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#70 Jul 06 2009 at 10:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Raikusxox wrote:
FFXI =/= FFXIV. It's like giving a trophy/item to a new player starting in WoW for playing FFXI.


They're both going to be linked to the same SE account, so no that analogy doesn't work. I'm fine with it, as long as the item doesn't give any tactical advantage whatsoever. Just a fun play item. :p
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#71 Jul 06 2009 at 11:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Most of SE's actions over the years have been to try and stop elitism, from nerfing the severly OP jobs to trying and make solo content viable.


Oh I don't know - including a HLNM that take you 18 hours of battle BEFORE you can actually start to kill it seems like they are, since only the most dedicated players will even attempt that. And when they do, they'll advertise how great they are and how much everyone else sucks. :P


Quote:
I have NEVER seen a gas or electric company treat someone better because they've been with them for a long time. My parents just switched their phone/internet provider because they found a blatantly better deal (without looking for it) and they had the old company for over a decade.


I have. Worked for N-Power in 'Saves'. If someone was leaving they come through me first and I offer them special rates. Same with Vodafone and Orange. A lot of factors go into what I can give them. How long they've been with the company and how much spend each month.

Quote:
The bonus we've been talking about in this whole thread... The momento item. The happiness given from a momento item. If it isn't going to give the XI players joy, than it is pointless to even discuss it from the start.


I don't class that as a bonus anyone not connected with FFXI would even miss out on, but I'm not going to argue that with you anymore since you seem to have gotten what I was suggesting.

In my opening post I compared it to the WAR trophey system. The reason that worked so well, was not because the DAoC players and the none DAoC players got on because there were no squables, that didn't even feature simply because from level 5 you could fill your first trophey slot with a trophey item. The fact that people were able to put on display their favourite ones meant they didn't miss the DAoC one. Tropheys were eacy to come by, plenty in number and there was many for every kind of taste. Something like that in FFXIV would go down a treat! That's all I ever meant from the first post.

I do however think your suggestion that, even if none FFXI subscribers weren't able to get anything like this item, it wouldn't cause as much as a problem as this transfer of a accounts. For one you will have all your friends available on lists on an entirely new FF game. While this is good for keeping old friends together and LS operating, I do think it will inhibit the old FF-online players from interacting with those who are new to it. That could develop the sense of elitsm more than this item ever could.

For example, a LS like Apathy was on Remora (not sure if they're still around) were quite a big name when I played regularly. Anyone trying to join a shell like that might be shunned or even if they do join, it will be hard to intergrate into an experianced 'click' like that.




Edited, Jul 7th 2009 3:25am by akelah
#72 Jul 06 2009 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
I have NEVER seen a gas or electric company treat someone better because they've been with them for a long time. My parents just switched their phone/internet provider because they found a blatantly better deal (without looking for it) and they had the old company for over a decade.


There's only one gas and electric company where I live...so we get treated like trash here no matter how long you stay with them.
#73 Jul 07 2009 at 12:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
There's only one gas and electric company where I live...so we get treated like trash here no matter how long you stay with them.


:(

Thats the benefit of having more than one supplier of anything in an area, it turns into a competition which is better for the consumer who saves money through a price war. Same with MMOs. We have such a big choice now-a-days and different ones appeal to different people. The Fantasy Genre is probably the most wide spread MMO because most people like that. I am glad we have different Genres coming out now, Star Wars and Stargate SG-1 are more Sci-fi and Champions Online is right out of a Comic book! I'm looking forward to trying them all, but depending how well they do, depends on which ones I'll continue to pay for :D
#74 Jul 07 2009 at 1:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I liked the idea of something that could be placed in a "moghouse" like an nation flag or w/e
#75 Jul 07 2009 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry, but I see no problem with this whatsoever. A useless, non-advantage giving keepsake for players who played FFXI that can't be seen by anyone other than the player. This is basically in the same category as people who preorder collector's editions and get some random item with no value. Yeah, they're two completely different games, so what? Personally, I could care less if I got a memento as I would probably throw it away at some point for inventory space. I just fail to see what kind of controversy this would create between FFXI vets and FFXIV players. If this would actually upset you, you're too immature to be playing an MMO in the first place.
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#76 Jul 07 2009 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Maybe they could give everyone gardening pots.
#77 Jul 07 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Default
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The people who are opposed to allowing FFXI players to get a memento item are the same players who would be likely to quit the game after their trial period. If the game is fun and innovative, you aren't going to quit because you didn't get that special furniture in your mog house. If you do, then good riddance... and you will be back eventually anyway.

I didn't quit WoW because I never got a panda pet. I didn't quit WAR because I didn't get a Cossack helmet.

I quit WAR because I was bored of being the only person playing in an open quest or RVR fight.
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#78 Jul 08 2009 at 5:51 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I quit WAR because I was bored of being the only person playing in an open quest or RVR fight



Oooh Snap! Got a bit tired of the whinney message boards too.

I think the big problem (and I think I said this in this topic too, or it might have been another lol) with the lack of people at certains times of the day, was the fact they had seperate US and European servers. If they had a bunch of servers and let them all be international then you would have gotten people on at the off-peak times. As whats prime time for one country, is work time for another. But not every one works on the same days at the same times, if at all.

Which is why I hope FFXIV servers will operate the same as the FFXI ones did.
#79 Jul 08 2009 at 6:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
The people who are opposed to allowing FFXI players to get a memento item are the same players who would be likely to quit the game after their trial period. If the game is fun and innovative, you aren't going to quit because you didn't get that special furniture in your mog house. If you do, then good riddance... and you will be back eventually anyway.


Again, the idea isn't that people who don't have it will be upset by not having it,

The idea is that if it is universally visible it would make some people who do have it bigger jerks than they already are. The thought that it would make FFXI players who already hate non-FFXI players hate them more and make it easier for them to do so.

Nobody's talking about being jealous or wanting the item. It's all about how it would make the elitists with this item act.

I'm not even entirely against the idea of getting some cute trinket. Just saying, since there seems to be a lot of confusion on the points here.
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#80 Jul 08 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's all about how it would make the elitists with this item act.


They're going to act like jerks regardless. That is no reason to let them spoil it for the people with the normal brains.

Seriously, refussing us something like this because of this reason only, is like giving into a spoilt child.
#81 Jul 08 2009 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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This is ridiculous... as one of the people who got the Pendragon's Knot in WAR (and as a long-time FFXI player), there's not a single shred of elitism assosciated with it, it's just a nice reward for company loyalty.

If you think, even for a second, that you new players would be treated badly because you didn't get a free item for playing the first game, you're an idiot. MMOs thrive on the good word of their players, and what better way to bring back old hands than to remind them of their glory days?

This entire argument seems like its two sides are 1: FF players who'd like some small measure of their past enjoyment to take with them, and 2: Crybabies who think that a small item given to ex-FFXI players means they won't be allowed to exist.

Quote:
HOWEVER, I CAN think of one thing that would act as a legacy item for XI players, but still offer the others a chance to obtain an item.

I'm picturing a mannequin-like statue thing, awarded from a "Welcome to Eorzea" starter quest that gives background on the world and such. You will get a statue that you can customize in the form of a FFXIV or FFXI race. The XI one will show the race in the normal clothes, or maybe AF. The XIV one will act like the mannequins in XI did, allowing you to put gear on them.

You'd be able to change the XI one to a XIV one at any time, but not the other way around.

That way, players that want a legacy item get it. Players who didn't play FFXI still get an equal reward (though it will bring them less pleasure, not having played FFXI). And, by allowing only a one-way switch, you ensure that it remains more precious over time. *note* The Mannequin is not storage and may only show gear that is in your "bank."


This is just a stupid idea all round, and I laughed when I read it. Are you really so worried that because I'd get one more unique item than you, I wouldn't invite you to my Party? 'cause in that case I'd be worried about your mental health.

A company loyalty bonus to me does not in any way demean you as a person, and I wouldn't expect a single person in the entire game world to think otherwise. Other than the "woe is me, I'm worthless because I didn't get that item!" crowd, but then again, that's you anyway.

EDIT: Also:

Quote:
Again, the idea isn't that people who don't have it will be upset by not having it,

The idea is that if it is universally visible it would make some people who do have it bigger jerks than they already are. The thought that it would make FFXI players who already hate non-FFXI players hate them more and make it easier for them to do so.

Nobody's talking about being jealous or wanting the item. It's all about how it would make the elitists with this item act.

I'm not even entirely against the idea of getting some cute trinket. Just saying, since there seems to be a lot of confusion on the points here.


I love how you assume FFXI players already hate non-FFXI players, I dunno where you saw that but I can't see it myself. Jerks will be jerks, admittedly, but I doubt anyone's gonna suddenly hate you because you don't have the item. I also can't help but feel (based on my experience with the Pendragon Knot) that the elitists really couldn't care less about something so easy to come by. FF's been out years now, and anyone who'd subbed would get it. From the most God-tier raiders to the people who paid for a month, couldn't get past the starter-mob Rabbits and quit. It's hardly a mark of elitism, really, is it?

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 5:52pm by dysc
#82 Jul 08 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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akelah wrote:
Seriously, refussing us something like this because of this reason only, is like giving into a spoilt child.


I'd say asking for something with absolutely no regard for potential consequences is doing the same thing.

There's a big difference between deciding not do include something vs "refussing (sic) us something".
#83 Jul 08 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:

I'd say asking for something with absolutely no regard for potential consequences is doing the same thing.

There's a big difference between deciding not do [sic] include something vs "refussing (sic) us something".


Potential consequences, yes, the world will end, same way it did with WAR... except, what? It didn't?

DAoC attracted a very elitist crowd, and as a result, so did WAR. But I never once saw or even heard of any 'consequences' of a player not having a Pendragon's Knot. Maybe I only ever met sensible people? Or maybe people just don't behave like that.
#84 Jul 08 2009 at 2:18 PM Rating: Decent
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dysc wrote:
If you think, even for a second, that you new players would be treated badly because you didn't get a free item for playing the first game, you're an idiot.


By everyone, no. By the loudest and most insufferable? Absolutely.


dysc wrote:
MMOs thrive on the good word of their players, and what better way to bring back old hands than to remind them of their glory days?


If players have left, then something about their time in-game was no longer their "glory days". If players have not yet left, they're going to check out XIV regardless - just see how many people order the new XI mini-expansion even after realizing that they spent $10 for two hours worth of play-time with ACP. Brand new S-E game? Of course they're going to buy it.


dysc wrote:
This entire argument seems like its two sides are 1: FF players who'd like some small measure of their past enjoyment to take with them, and 2: Crybabies who think that a small item given to ex-FFXI players means they won't be allowed to exist.


What, you think those players would have forgotten about XI until they look at some sort of in-game trinket? You would have your memories of a game that neither you nor the people around you are playing anymore. You'd see things all around you that would remind you of XI, given the race models that we've already seen. Why isn't that enough?


dysc wrote:
This is just a stupid idea all round, and I laughed when I read it. Are you really so worried that because I'd get one more unique item than you, I wouldn't invite you to my Party? 'cause in that case I'd be worried about your mental health.


I want to see a new game and a fresh start. I don't care that you (general sense) played XI, I don't care that you had __ number of 75s, had ___ number of merits, and were a member of endgame linkshell BlahBlahBlah that killed pixellated monsters X, Y, and Z. Let the new game stand and breathe on its own without another link to S-E's previous MMO.
#85 Jul 08 2009 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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I like how people think that a useless, at most aesthetic, trinket is going to cause a continental divide in a playerbase.
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#86 Jul 08 2009 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
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dysc wrote:
Potential consequences, yes, the world will end, same way it did with WAR... except, what? It didn't?

DAoC attracted a very elitist crowd, and as a result, so did WAR. But I never once saw or even heard of any 'consequences' of a player not having a Pendragon's Knot. Maybe I only ever met sensible people? Or maybe people just don't behave like that.


Note how the buzz about S-E's new MMO was pretty minimal when it was called Rapture. Then at E3, they announced Rapture = Final Fantasy XIV and people started bouncing around like six-year-olds on a sugar high.

Perhaps you might have seen differently in Warhammer had Mythic transferred the same races from DAoC into WAR and called the game Dark Age of Camelot 2. Not to mention that as of April 2008, DAoC had at best 20% of XI's market share (MMOGchart.com), so a max of likely well under 100,000 players when WAR was released. There just weren't that many die-hard DAoC players left to care about Pendragon's Knot being in WAR.

Edit - citation

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 6:36pm by SEforPrez
#87 Jul 08 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
What, you think those players would have forgotten about XI until they look at some sort of in-game trinket? You would have your memories of a game that neither you nor the people around you are playing anymore. You'd see things all around you that would remind you of XI, given the race models that we've already seen. Why isn't that enough?


I think they'd play the new game anyway, and that there'd be nothing like the good feeling assosciated with the bonus item. I certainly don't think (and this is the important part) that there'd be any detrimental effect to giving out bonuses to loyal customers.

Quote:
I want to see a new game and a fresh start. I don't care that you (general sense) played XI, I don't care that you had __ number of 75s, had ___ number of merits, and were a member of endgame linkshell BlahBlahBlah that killed pixellated monsters X, Y, and Z. Let the new game stand and breathe on its own without another link to S-E's previous MMO.


This is the MMO industry (and the games industry in a wider sense), there's no such thing as "a fresh start."

Fresh start doesn't sell well, otherwise all of Square's games would sell as well as the Final Fantasies. Plus, as you said, it's got the same races in it, that's hardly a fresh start, is it?

To answer your point about statistics, comparing their two peaks, FFXI had 500k, twice DAoC's 250k. Only 50%, not 20%, because given that DAoC launched a few years before FFXI (and the Pendragon Knot offer applied to anyone who'd ever had a subscription, not just current subscribers) means that comparing them in 2008 isn't useful. I doubt even doubling the number of Pendragon Knots given out would cause the schism you predicted, by the way. In addition to that, WAR's peak realistic subscription base was 500k, so at an estimate 50% of those players would be eligible for Pendragon Knots. Half the game's community, and there still wasn't a difference in the way players were treated.

Quote:
I like how people think that a useless, at most aesthetic, trinket is going to cause a continental divide in a playerbase.


^ Now there is someone who makes sense.

Quote:

Perhaps you might have seen differently in Warhammer had Mythic transferred the same races from DAoC into WAR and called the game Dark Age of Camelot 2. Not to mention that as of April 2008, DAoC had at best 20% of XI's market share, so a max of likely well under 100,000 players when WAR was released. There just weren't that many die-hard DAoC players left to care about Pendragon's Knot being in WAR.


Still don't believe this. Normal people who haven't played these games don't care about the trinkets that people who did get. The only people who care, are the ones who're jealous and the ones who get the trinket, and I don't think the ones who get it care that the others didn't. So in reality you're left with some people whining because they didn't play the first game and don't think that those who did should get a customer loyalty bonus.

And of course, I can't speak for everyone, but me and my friends were all pretty excited when Rapture was announced, because we wanted FFXI again, but an FFXI where they learnt from their mistakes first time round. Not really much to ask, is it?

EDIT: A more accurate comparison.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 6:51pm by dysc

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 6:52pm by dysc

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 7:13pm by dysc
#88 Jul 08 2009 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Still don't believe this. Normal people who haven't played these games don't care about the trinkets that people who did get. The only people who care, are the ones who're jealous and the ones who get the trinket, and I don't think the ones who get it care that the others didn't. So in reality you're left with some people whining because they didn't play the first game and don't think that those who did should get a customer loyalty bonus.


I'm probably not making the source of my disagreement clear enough. I played XI from release until early '06, and have come back for a month here and there in the time since. I would get the bonus, and I still have my concerns. Here's why:

There is so much more drama in shout chat and especially forum=10 than in any other MMO that I've played, and I've tried most of them. I'll show you what I mean - go to the XI forums, there's 2517 pages of threads, 50 per page. Pick one at random. The odds are very good that at least one of those 50 threads will be about some gimp/noob/whatever that either had bad equipment, made a bad decision in a party, or in general just did something worthy of a disapproving post. And how many of the server forums here don't have a multi-page thread about "Worst players on (Server)"? I know Ifrit did.

Part of this I'm sure was because due to the lack of soloing opportunities, everyone was pretty much confined to a single zone, making the game a glorified giant chat room while LFG. But there's still a very noticeable cliquish-ness that is present in XI that I've not found in other MMOs. A visible memento-trinket from XI in XIV would just bring one of the worst parts of XI into the new game. Why would you want that? Why aren't seeing Mithras and Galkas everywhere enough of a reminder of your previous MMO?

#89 Jul 08 2009 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Part of this I'm sure was because due to the lack of soloing opportunities, everyone was pretty much confined to a single zone, making the game a glorified giant chat room while LFG. But there's still a very noticeable cliquish-ness that is present in XI that I've not found in other MMOs. A visible memento-trinket from XI in XIV would just bring one of the worst parts of XI into the new game. Why would you want that? Why aren't seeing Mithras and Galkas everywhere enough of a reminder of your previous MMO?


Due to the success of WoW there's a far larger MMO community than when FFXI first launched, and this means that FFXIV will have a far wider range of experiences assosciated with its players. Square themselves are taking large steps towards differentiating the game by making it a more casual-friendly game and allowing more opportunities to solo. As soon as the FFXI players begin to mix in with the rest of the FFXIV players I doubt there'll be much of any of the old elitism, because the MMO-playing community act a lot more mature than they used to. Other than that, I still find it hard to believe that a small memento from FFXI is going to cause a massive schism between the two groups, because as I said, I'm pretty sure the MMO community is more mature than that nowadays.
#90 Jul 08 2009 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Akelah wrote:
They're going to act like jerks regardless. That is no reason to let them spoil it for the people with the normal brains.


Well, yes. That's a valid thought, and kind of my stance on it. It'd probably honestly be nothing more than a cute, harmless trinket, especially if it's non-visible, and I think if SE thinks about the idea they'll probably go ahead with it, since they'll already be doing friends lists and like to dish out the fan service anyway.

Akelah wrote:
Seriously, refussing us something like this because of this reason only, is like giving into a spoilt child.


If you really want to phrase it that way, I guess.

dysc wrote:
This is ridiculous... as one of the people who got the Pendragon's Knot in WAR (and as a long-time FFXI player), there's not a single shred of elitism assosciated with it, it's just a nice reward for company loyalty.


Did a lot of Dark Age of Camelot players consider players from other MMOs/non-MMO players to be idiots and worthless "casuals"? I can't speak for that situation, but there's more than enough proof here that some FFXI fans think WoW players and "casual" gamers second in stupidity only to single celled organisms. Which is where this whole issue comes from.

dysc wrote:
If you think, even for a second, that you new players would be treated badly because you didn't get a free item for playing the first game, you're an idiot.


Mature, sassy, I like it. They're not members of the elite intelligentsia like you, are they?

But yes, everyone who's seen cantankerous FFXI players talking like it'll be the end of the world when those stupid non-MMO-players/WoW-players etcetera invade their game and therefor decided that maybe making that division easier to spot could be a bad idea: all of the people thinking that. Stupid.

dysc wrote:
This entire argument seems like its two sides are 1: FF players who'd like some small measure of their past enjoyment to take with them, and 2: Crybabies who think that a small item given to ex-FFXI players means they won't be allowed to exist.


Irony, you have no better home than the internet.

In any case, I don't think so. I'm an ex-FFXI player and my official stance is middle-of-the-road, and I'm pretty sure most of the people talking about this, let alone talking on these forums, are or were FFXI players. Though I know you want so badly to think that the only people who would oppose this FFXI trinket are the non-FFXI players who can't stand up to your level of elite.

dysc wrote:
I love how you assume FFXI players already hate non-FFXI players, I dunno where you saw that but I can't see it myself. Jerks will be jerks, admittedly, but I doubt anyone's gonna suddenly hate you because you don't have the item. I also can't help but feel (based on my experience with the Pendragon Knot) that the elitists really couldn't care less about something so easy to come by. FF's been out years now, and anyone who'd subbed would get it. From the most God-tier raiders to the people who paid for a month, couldn't get past the starter-mob Rabbits and quit. It's hardly a mark of elitism, really, is it?


1) Look around the forums. There are FFXI players think that WoW players and non-MMO-gamers are stupid, quite a number of them very vocal.
2) I'm an FFXI player, I don't hate non-FFXI players. I'm "assuming" that some do, based on what I've actually seen.
3) I'm sure these FFXI elitists would consider somebody who played the game for a month still more "intelligent" and "in" than your average WoW player. Let alone the fact that recovering your account info for FFXI isn't exactly easy, so it's not like everyone who just played for a month or two years ago is going to jump through hoops for a hat; it's mostly going to be the "hardcore" FFXI players that played enough to memorize their login info or are still playing that will really be cashing in on this trinket.

If I may turn the tables on this argument this is absolutely silly.

We have one party maturely (for the most part) voicing logical concerns about an idea and the proponents of said idea flying around in jetpacks raining ***** down upon them. Just because you disagree doesn't mean there's any real reason not to attempt to see eye to eye.

lolgaxe wrote:
I like how people think that a useless, at most aesthetic, trinket is going to cause a continental divide in a playerbase.


That's an amusing thing for someone to think. Has someone said something to that effect?

I mean, some people have been making the point that, if visible, this would be a contribution to people being asses and one manner of player looking down upon another. But that's quite a bit different from causing a "continental divide", so.

Edited, Jul 8th 2009 8:32pm by PrinnyFlute
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#91 Jul 08 2009 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Even if the item given to FFXI's is 'non-visible', or if there is no FFXI tribute item at all, do you really think you are going to be able to log into FFXIV in it's first few months of infancy without having groups of ex-FFXI's already grouped up into a linkshell? Do you think that the first few weeks will NOT be composed of players listing their accomplishments in other MMOs in order to get into a linkshell/guild/whatever?

Do you think players will not be talking about their characters in WoW or FFXI or Everquest or Maple Story in their first few parties to show that they have MMO cred and are set on becoming valuable linkshell/guild/whatever assets?

Well you are right on one part... almost nobody is going to brag about their Maple Story character. That one guy who does is gonna be too creepy for most guild/linkshells/whatevers.

Your worst fears about having an in-game item for FFXI players is going to come true whether the item is there or not.

So why not let the players have it? The majority of players aren't asshats anyways... but the loudest ones are, and they will already be spouting elitist crap on day one. Just the same as day one of FFXI NA... JP ONLY please. (remember that shout?)
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#92 Jul 08 2009 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I like how people think that a useless, at most aesthetic, trinket is going to cause a continental divide in a playerbase.


That's an amusing thing for someone to think. Has someone said something to that effect?


Thats an interesting question, gimmie a sec.

Quote:
The thought seems to be that if the 'bonus' is something flamboyant and visible (like a big flashing hat) it will make it even easier for the elitists among the FFXI players to tell who is and isn't new and shun them accordingly.


Both quote are from you by the way.

I find it ammusing that all you doom-sayers assume I was even suggesting the 'flashing hat'. I suggest you all go and read the first post and then take a look at exatly what I was making the comparision too.

If you wanna stick up for the idiots who would take offence at this item being given out, then that's all well and good, but again, you're really no better than those who would kick off over it to start with, since your trying to keep them happy at the expense of everyone elses gaming pleasure. Because that's what we play for. You know, its a game. Not a way of life.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 3:35am by akelah
#93 Jul 09 2009 at 12:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for calling Prinny out on the BS.

I was going to post opposing quotes, but I am lazy and probably drunk.

Quote:
I like how people think that a useless, at most aesthetic, trinket is going to cause a continental divide in a playerbase.
From lolgaxe


Quote:
That's an amusing thing for someone to think. Has someone said something to that effect?

You did prinny, in just about every post.
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#94 Jul 09 2009 at 1:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
You did prinny, in just about every post.

He didn't, but I do think Prinny is taking it too far.



I have zero problem with old FFXI players getting some sort of token in FFXIV for their previous SE MMORPG experience. It really isn't a big deal. People aren't going to care and ostracize those with or without one. The old FFXI players might milk a little joy from the trinket (or even toss it right away) without harming anyone.

That said, I do disagree with the concept of rewarding players in way way for events outside of the game. Those Murloc pets pets people got for going to Blizzcon? Didn't like that idea. But I'm going to pretend that every single trinket given to players for something outside the game affects the game in a significantly negative way. It's just a bad philosophy in my opinion.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 4:35am by Allegory
#95 Jul 09 2009 at 1:48 AM Rating: Good
Meh, don't care about merlock pets.

The thing is, they're not going to reward you for your FFXI progress though, because they want FFXI to still be going! There will still be new content, new quests, equipment, events, etc.

FFXI is going to be its own thing, the things you achieve in FFXIV will be their own thing, and one won't make you more prestigious in the other. This is a good thing. Feel accomplished for the thing you did in FFXI. I haven't played in over a year and i'm still proud of making 75 samurai with many merits ++ AF+2, I got going on ninja too and that was pretty **** awesome. Even though I don't have all sorts of digital accomplishments for that one; I remember, and it was... fun!
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#96 Jul 09 2009 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
He didn't, but I do think Prinny is taking it too far.


He did. I quoted him. Look up.

Quote:
Those Murloc pets pets people got for going to Blizzcon?


Wrong yes. But then again that was probably something awsome that could be shown off. This would only be special to the barer and of no value. People without one wouldn't miss it and those with it would just have something to show for their accomplishments in a game (I for one) will be leaving for the newer, up-to-date instalment. Memories I have, but thats not the same as owning what you held dear in there. I know, they were just pixels on a sceen, and nothing could ever replace the signed corsage my husband made for me when we met (in FFXI).

Someone against the idea suggested a way to include the new comers in this little reward scheme. Maybe one quest in the entire game has a reward, a furnishing piece for your home. Because then you can't parade around with it shouting on high that 'I am the greatest! Look at me!'. Those new to FFXIV would get a generic FFXIV piece, while those with an account brought over from POL could choose a limited edition FFXI piece. I don't see anything wrong with this idea.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 6:10am by akelah
#97 Jul 09 2009 at 2:26 AM Rating: Good
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I guess SE should just go ahead and stop giving people useless ingame items for going to fanfest too. Right?

Seriously, there are a bunch of items in ffxi that a lot of us want, but we don't cry that the others shouldn't be able to get them just because we couldn't. There's no difference between that and what it's going to be like in ffxiv.
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#98 Jul 09 2009 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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akelah wrote:
He did. I quoted him. Look up.

I did. lolgaxe took the hyperbole way overboard. Prinny said people might shun others for not having the item. I think Prinny was going a little overboard, but lolgaxe went beyond overboard. Prinny's comment was nowhere near as extreme as some are trying to play it up to be.

*Person gently brushes by Prinny*
Prinny: Agh he gave me a bruise
lolgaxe: ZOMG stop saying he cut your arm off!

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 5:36am by Allegory
#99 Jul 09 2009 at 2:42 AM Rating: Good
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I think the whole against debate has an extreme point of view on the suggestion. For a start they completely missed the point of the suggestion by implying it would be an 'awsome flashy hat' and thus cause friction in the community. This to me is an extreme.

For him to try and mock lolgaxe simply because of how he/she interpritated their rather silly argument, when Prinny him/herself has voiced that very assumption, is laughable. Or is it not so doom and gloom as they are suggesting? In which case there is no valid reason why this keep sake idea can't be implimented, is there?
#100 Jul 09 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't really want to have a metadebate about someone else's debate, so I will just make a brief comment. I think Prinny was extreme, but I also believe lolgaxe took it to another level of hyperbole that distorts Prinny's argument. Prinny point was the limit of A*N approaching infinity and lolgaxe's comment was A^N approaching infinity. Both are infinite, but they're not equally infinite.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 5:50am by Allegory
#101 Jul 09 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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You'll be able to input your FF11 account name and password into FF14...

It will give you an item based on the playtime of that account...

A body piece with no stats on it that says "I played FFXI for XXX hours and all I got was this sh*tty T-shirt."

It WILL cause a continental divide in the playerbase.

Edited, Jul 9th 2009 6:51am by ihatetaru
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