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I humbly request a clueFollow

#1 Jun 27 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I never played FFXI. I didn't want to get a credit card just for a mmorpg (why don't they take Discover?), I balked at the price tag to get in and the notion of a monthly fee, and the depth of the game when I looked at wikis was intimidating. And now it really seems too late to jump in and I read it's dreadful for soloing. I recently got my feet wet with Mabinogi, which is a nice little game with some good people, but I'm paying more than I would for FFXI and I'd really rather be playing a Final Fantasy game. FFXIV seems like a good place to get in, but I'm not sure what to expect.

Mabinogi is more of an action game with rpg elements, like a Legend of Zelda or Brave Fencer Musashi. The combat is largely about learning the pattern of actions to defeat monsters or reading theirs and countering appropriately. Unfortunately a lot of the game involves being perfect or the monsters kill you in one hit. Lag lately has caused me a great deal of frustration, and I'm not looking for more of that.

I read FF12 was supposed to be more like an online game in terms of how you play it. I really liked setting my characters' gambits and watching the results. I've read in FFXI you basically run up to enemies and automatically attack them, but manually throw in abilities as appropriate. That sounds similar, but I wanted to ask any of you who have played both how they compare.

I also liked the grind in games like Disgaea and was wondering if that made me a kook or in the right place.
#2 Jun 27 2009 at 8:06 PM Rating: Default
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a) if you like grind, chances are you'll like FFXIV.

b) FFXII is faster FFXI and more involving, but the combat is roughly quite similar. FFXIV's gameplay's speed might be similar to FFXII, but the combat system should be significantly different. You're asking about FFXIV right, or FFXI only?

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 4:07am by Hyanmen
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#3 Jun 27 2009 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I'm asking about XI in order to learn what to expect from XIV. I guess I mainly want to know if it's more of a thinking game (like setting up XII's gambits) or more of a twitch game. I guess, what kind of pacing do the fights have? If I fight something of my level, looking to earn xp, is that a 20 second encounter or a two minute slog? I know turn based like FFX just wouldn't work online. Even something the speed of FF X-2 I could work with, especially if I only have to make decisions for one character at a time.

I'm also wondering how much of a problem lag has been. Does a second of computer freeze kill you, or is it survivable. And how good is square at keeping their equipment running smoothly?
#4 Jun 27 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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It's more of a thinking game, with a slow pace. While you have less actions to do, each of them has more significant impact on the outcome of the situation.

I however expect FFXIV to have faster type of gameplay, but there's no proof of such or anything yet.

The encounters are roughly 1-2min long and <1min at the level cap. Monsters are much tougher than players. I think that you could compare FFX and FFX-2 battle speed to FFXI and FFXII's speed.. maybe. Dunno how it might be in XIV, but dev team has been hinting at fighting many monsters at once opposed to one (usually) at time in FFXI.

There's some lag issues but it's usually very 'seasonal'. Sometimes there's more and then nothing for ages (months-years). Chinese could attack SE's servers too, which lags them out (happened once i think, took like a month to fix?). Other than that it's not too bad, but expect XIV to have some especially at start with so many players per server and it being a new game. It should stabilize soon enough, though. No, 1 sec freeze shouldn't kill you.

They might take servers down a lot at start in FFXIV, with all the updates and stuff. FFXI goes down every update and then few weeks after that there are emergency maintenances to fix broken things. Other than that there isn't much if any server downtime.


Edited, Jun 28th 2009 4:49am by Hyanmen
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#5 Jun 27 2009 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for your responses, this sounds like what I'm looking for. On other question. I know they haven't specified PC requirements beyond 'high end.' I don't know all the stats on my computer off the top of my head, but it was the best I could get from Dell about a year ago. Based on the system requirements for FFXI, am I in reasonable shape, or is square likely to operate under the assumption that people are playing on the best available system at the game's release?

Or I guess the shorter question is should I just plan on getting a PS3 next year?
#6 Jun 27 2009 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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To OP:

www.playonline.com


Start here ^^
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#7 Jun 27 2009 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd get a PS3 tbh. FFXI was quite spec heavy when it came out on PC (if you wanted to play it on decent graphics), I'd except no less from FFXIV either.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#8 Jun 27 2009 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Thanks for your responses, this sounds like what I'm looking for. On other question. I know they haven't specified PC requirements beyond 'high end.' I don't know all the stats on my computer off the top of my head, but it was the best I could get from Dell about a year ago. Based on the system requirements for FFXI, am I in reasonable shape, or is square likely to operate under the assumption that people are playing on the best available system at the game's release?

Or I guess the shorter question is should I just plan on getting a PS3 next year?


Depends on if you'd rather play on a console or your PC. It'd cost way less to upgrade your computer (and in no way is FFXIV going to be even close to the low spec requirements of FFXI, which was only due to the limitations of the PS2) than to buy a whole new PS3. If you have other games in mind you'd like to play on the PS3, get it. I recommend the system completely as it's amazing and hasn't even come close to reaching it's maximum potential yet with any game (unlike the Xbox 360's 70%). Plus Blu-Rays are pretty **** awesome. The PC on the other hand you can upgrade relatively easily and cheap (unless you have a labtop). You probably won't need more than, say, a Nvidia GeForce 8800 to run FFXIV, and 3 GB of RAM. Seeing as how Age of Conan was able to run perfectly on that setup for me at High Quality, it will work for you. RAM is cheap as ****! And the 8800 was only $90 for me, and you definitely won't need anything higher than that, but you can if you'd like.

As for your question about FFXI being a thinking game, yes, it is. I remember doing the math for Blue Mage about each stat's effect on the damage output on certain Blue Magic spells and it was very complex but necessary. No matter what job you play on FFXI, you have to think about your strategy constantly to be the best possible player. Certain jobs you have to change your entire wardrobe in the middle of the battle based on the stats you need for certain situations, like spells. It does require a lot of thinking, but not to the point that it's dreadful. To be honest, I liked all the thought that went into it. It was definitely a change from the "Swing sword 40 times to kill enemy" approach to certain MMOs that I won't even mention by name (WoW).
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#9 Jun 27 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
FFXI was quite spec heavy when it came out on PC (if you wanted to play it on decent graphics), I'd except no less from FFXIV either.


How do you figure? It ran perfectly for me on 1 GB of RAM and an ATI Radeon x200, which is now discontinued to the point where you can't even find it on the website for so much as driver details. And the memory was only a little bit more than the bare minimum to even be able to run Vista! FFXI might be more spec-demanding than World of Warcraft but in no way whatsoever was it ever really "spec heavy"
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#10 Jun 27 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't know about you, but I rather skip all the PC stuff. I went to K-Mart today actually and put a 80GB PS3 on layaway for now. That should suffice.

I just hope I can have another "Gameboard" (controller/keyboard for the ps2 console), only this time for the PS3.
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#11 Jun 27 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Normal USB keyboards work for PS3, afaik so no worries about that.
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#12 Jun 27 2009 at 9:42 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Normal USB keyboards work for PS3, afaik so no worries about that.


Was talking about this:

http://www.superufo.com/item_photo/item/PS2-0601-L.jpg
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#13 Jun 27 2009 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Normal USB keyboards work for PS3, afaik so no worries about that.


Yup yup. I got my PS3 while I was still playing FFXI and the USB keyboard I was using since 2004 for FFXI worked perfectly still on PS3. I'm still using it today.
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R.I.P. Atli, Blue Mage main on Seraph (2007-2008)
R.I.P. Silje, Beastmaster main on Odin (2008-2008)
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Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#14 Jun 27 2009 at 9:45 PM Rating: Decent
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So long as there's an option for it to run strictly via USB rather than being forced to use the PS2's controller output, then it'll work.
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Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#15 Jun 27 2009 at 9:49 PM Rating: Decent
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How do you figure? It ran perfectly for me on 1 GB of RAM and an ATI Radeon x200, which is now discontinued to the point where you can't even find it on the website for so much as driver details. And the memory was only a little bit more than the bare minimum to even be able to run Vista! FFXI might be more spec-demanding than World of Warcraft but in no way whatsoever was it ever really "spec heavy"


Well it had already been out in JP as PC version since 2002 afaik? Not sure.
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#16 Jun 27 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Default
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So long as there's an option for it to run strictly via USB rather than being forced to use the PS2's controller output, then it'll work.


The question is..will Sony release something similar for the PS3? If so, I love you Sony. If not, gtfo!
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#17 Jun 27 2009 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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The question is..will Sony release something similar for the PS3? If so, I love you Sony. If not, gtfo!


But.. why? Are those not sold anymore? looks kinda cool.
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#18 Jun 27 2009 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Well it had already been out in JP as PC version since 2002 afaik? Not sure.


2003 in the US for PC. The graphics card I had was known for being one of the first to be able to use DirectX 9, which was originally released in 2002. It was pretty cheap even then and any computer made around that time had a DX9-capable card, even E-Machines computers. The only problem people would have had with FFXI would be RAM, and RAM has ALWAYS been cheap, so there wasn't much excuse NOT to upgrade. In fact, you can get a 1 GB stick of RAM for $10 today easily.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 12:12am by mortalabattoir
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Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#19 Jun 27 2009 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The question is..will Sony release something similar for the PS3? If so, I love you Sony. If not, gtfo!


So long as the PS2 versions work for the PS3, I'd rather get the PS2 version of it just because PS3-exclusive keyboards are always way too expensive. But hey, there's still a year left, so I don't see why not. :)
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R.I.P. Atli, Blue Mage main on Seraph (2007-2008)
R.I.P. Silje, Beastmaster main on Odin (2008-2008)
R.I.P. My Final Fantasy XI Account forevahz

Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#20 Jun 27 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
But.. why? Are those not sold anymore? looks kinda cool.


Started popping up once EQ was released for the PS2..it even had EQ on the package saying "Best used for this game!".

Don't make them anymore from what I know, I broke my old one =/. You could only plug that into the PS2 but if it is re-released as just a USB only and built a little smaller it'd be awesome. I loved using it to play FFXI on PS2.
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#21 Jun 27 2009 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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You could only plug that into the PS2 but if it is re-released as just a USB only


What's the point in the USB thing that the keyboard has then (illustrated in the image you gave)? Have you tried just plugging the USB in?
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R.I.P. Atli, Blue Mage main on Seraph (2007-2008)
R.I.P. Silje, Beastmaster main on Odin (2008-2008)
R.I.P. My Final Fantasy XI Account forevahz

Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#22 Jun 27 2009 at 10:24 PM Rating: Default
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It's both a keyboard and the PS2 controller. You can't use it for the PS3, the keyboard part yes, but not the controller. I would like for them to make it where it can be a controller for PS3. That's my point...

See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Logitech-NetPlay-Controller-for-Sony-Playstation-1-2_W0QQitemZ160341304360QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item2555162428&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
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#23 Jun 27 2009 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's both a keyboard and the PS2 controller. You can't use it for the PS3, the keyboard part yes, but not the controller. I would like for them to make it where it can be a controller for PS3. That's my point...

See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Logitech-NetPlay-Controller-for-Sony-Playstation-1-2_W0QQitemZ160341304360QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item2555162428&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A3|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


Ah, the two are seperate. I see. Just to throw this out there, there's also the option to convert it into a USB:

http://www.amazon.com/Playstation-2-PC-USB-Gamepad-Converter/dp/B000F6BGXY

I found on google that people have used it on the PS3 so they wouldn't have to buy a PS3 controller and that it works fine.
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R.I.P. Atli, Blue Mage main on Seraph (2007-2008)
R.I.P. Silje, Beastmaster main on Odin (2008-2008)
R.I.P. My Final Fantasy XI Account forevahz

Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#24 Jun 28 2009 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Just as a note, the PS3 is Bluetooth compatible with all bluetooth keyboards, that, combined with the included Dualshock controller would give you that combination, no?
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#25 Jun 28 2009 at 10:09 AM Rating: Default
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If the converter will work on the Keyboard/Controller, I'll probably pick up another one of these then. I'd like to see it tested first.
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#26 Jun 28 2009 at 2:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Just as a note, the PS3 is Bluetooth compatible with all bluetooth keyboards, that, combined with the included Dualshock controller would give you that combination, no?


Well the problem would be that he'd still be using a controller. That's what he's trying to get rid of, as playing with both a keyboard and a controller separately is annoying. I'll probably end up just using the number pad on my keyboard for my PS3.

Quote:
If the converter will work on the Keyboard/Controller, I'll probably pick up another one of these then. I'd like to see it tested first.


I doubt there will really be tests on it, but if it works with regular PS2 controllers, there's no reason why it wouldn't work with something that's essentially just a deformed PS2 controller.
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R.I.P. Atli, Blue Mage main on Seraph (2007-2008)
R.I.P. Silje, Beastmaster main on Odin (2008-2008)
R.I.P. My Final Fantasy XI Account forevahz

Back on ZAM for FFXIV!
#27 Jun 28 2009 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
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I'm sure Sony will release something that will make playing FFXIV on PS3 a bit easier, sort of how they tried to do it with FFXI. I remember I bought the Hard Drive with FFXI on it, and they gave me a free Keyboard along with the game. Then about a week later I found the keyboard I showed above.

I'm sure they'll come up with something.
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#28 Jun 28 2009 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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I read FF12 was supposed to be more like an online game in terms of how you play it. I really liked setting my characters' gambits and watching the results. I've read in FFXI you basically run up to enemies and automatically attack them, but manually throw in abilities as appropriate. That sounds similar, but I wanted to ask any of you who have played both how they compare.

Despite their similarities, the feel of the two combat systems is quite different. I don't know if I've ever really worked out why that is.

But some of the differences and similarities:

Both use an auto-attack system, as you said. Spells have casting times like in FFXII, but just about everything else (like the FFXI equivalent of tecknicks) is instantaneous.

Battles are real-time and occur seamlessly with the rest of gameplay, like in FFXII. But you have more for each character to do in a battle than in XII, because of course you only have to worry about one character.

Conversely, FFXI has much less emphasis on setting up your character before going into the fight. There's equipment with different effects, but none of it has as dramatic an effect as, say, installing a new gambit. Blue Mage involves "equipping" the spells you want to use for a particular session, and I think one of the jobs that was added after I quit might do something similar. But that's about it. Strategy in FFXI is much more something that happens on the battlefield.

XII is based on getting from point A to point B and killing everything along the way. For most of XI you fight in a "camp" where you and your party settle down in one spot and have monsters lured in to fight individually.

That's another thing: FFXII is based more on fighting groups of weak monsters, and things like area attacks and changing targets are quick and often automatic. FFXI is based on ganging up on one monster much stronger than any individual group member. Changing targets is slow and fairly clumsy, and if your team splits up its attacks you'll probably all die anyway.

There are more elements of timing than in FFXII, but they vary with your job. A Ninja has to be very precise with its timing, a Monk not so much.

Combat in FFXI is generally more slow-paced and involved. Your typical fight in an EXP party is closer to one of FFXII's Mark fights than it is to the regular monster fights. Every monster is slowed, poisoned, blinded, etc. to give you every advantage, because you're in it for the long haul. But of course, you only have to worry about one small slice of the picture, because you don't control the whole party.

Now, all that being said: FFXIV is probably going to be nothing like this. What little we know suggests that combat will be more like XII and less like XI, with no doubt a whole new feel of its own.
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