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#1 Jun 29 2009 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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I really enjoyed the single character system that FFXI had. I don't want to have to create a number of alts in FFXIV. I also liked the fact that the other PCs I played with probably also only had a single main character and did not have a number of alts they could switch between at whim.

I think it makes the game more personal, and it keeps people more honest in their online exploits.
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#2 Jun 29 2009 at 11:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Why speak in past tense? FFXI still offers this system, lol.
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#3 Jun 29 2009 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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Past tense because it is something I 'enjoyed'. I also 'enjoyed' eating a nice big burrito today, but I am not currently eating said burrito, so I can no longer enjoy it while typing this post. Yet I enjoyed it nonetheless.
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#4 Jun 30 2009 at 12:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd love to see a single character system. I'm really hoping that stays
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#5 Jun 30 2009 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I'd love to see a single character system. I'm really hoping that stays


Me too, but the question is, will we be going back to Mules, as well?
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#6 Jun 30 2009 at 2:00 AM Rating: Good
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They said the system would stay in one of the interviews, they said something like "you can be one job one day and another the next"
#7 Jun 30 2009 at 3:35 AM Rating: Good
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The more important question is "are we going to have to pay for our alts/mules?"

I really hope they remove that ripoff feature and simply give us a max number of characters. Even restricting us to 3 characters would be better than nowt.

EDIT - should mention though I'm in favour of the single character system for jobs, it's nice to be able to develop different classes with one online persona.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 7:37am by godmademedoit
#8 Jun 30 2009 at 3:50 AM Rating: Default
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godmademedoit wrote:
The more important question is "are we going to have to pay for our alts/mules?"

I really hope they remove that ripoff feature and simply give us a max number of characters. Even restricting us to 3 characters would be better than nowt.

EDIT - should mention though I'm in favour of the single character system for jobs, it's nice to be able to develop different classes with one online persona.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 7:37am by godmademedoit


I suppose the fee is there partly to deter players from just creating as many characters as they like.

I think it'd be nice to have 2, perhaps 3, free character slots, but no more than that, really.

As for the single character system? Yes. It's one of the best features in FFXI. Everything you do tends to be somewhat meaningful, since you'll always be using that character as long as you play.
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#9 Jun 30 2009 at 4:44 AM Rating: Good
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Instead of mules, they should just give us more ways to stash items / more item slots to stash items in. Changing characters takes away from the overall experience. Being able to control more on one character would deter a lot of players from ever thinking about rolling another one.
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#10 Jun 30 2009 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't mind a $1 fee for more chara's really, as long as my 1st chara has enough inventory space that I don't have to make mules. Small price to pay to be able to change jobs and stuff.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 1:09pm by Hyanmen
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#11 Jun 30 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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ScorpionEx wrote:

I suppose the fee is there partly to deter players from just creating as many characters as they like.


For what purpose though? I mean, what does anyone care how many characters someone else has? I used up all my slots in WoW and it didn't break the game. And I didn't pay extra for them, either.

FFXI forced a lot of things on the player (and stfu that guy who always counters that with "durrr well you should have researched the game first!" Bite me.), and only giving you one character was kind of one of those situations where you felt like, sh*t, I better get this right because I only get one.

If we had at least a couple slots we could create characters of different races, and then mess around with each of them until we decided the one we really liked to stick with, that would be great.

At least it would be far better than deleting and recreating your character to experience a different race until you decided, or spending an extra few bucks a month which puts the cost of ownership higher than other games just to reach the level of flexibility those other games offer.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 10:11am by Torrence
#12 Jun 30 2009 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't mind a $1 fee for more chara's really, as long as my 1st chara has enough inventory space that I don't have to make mules. Small price to pay to be able to change jobs and stuff.


...what? Not only do other MMORPGs allow you to create more than one character for FREE, but SE already said you'd be able to play more than one job on the same character in FFXIV.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 10:18am by Kharmageddon
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#13 Jun 30 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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If we had at least a couple slots we could create characters of different races, and then mess around with each of them until we decided the one we really liked to stick with, that would be great.

At least it would be far better than deleting and recreating your character to experience a different race until you decided, or spending an extra few bucks a month which puts the cost of ownership higher than other games just to reach the level of flexibility those other games offer.


To be fair though, the first month is free isn't it? Should be enough for extensive testing. Or does it only apply to first character? Iirc on trial you can make 3 characters for free at least..

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...what? Not only do other MMORPGs allow you to create more than one character for FREE, but FF already said you'd be able to play more than one job on the same character.


What I mean is- of course it would be nice if extra characters were free, but it won't really bother me if we have to pay since there should be no job restrictions.


Edited, Jun 30th 2009 2:21pm by Hyanmen
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#14 Jun 30 2009 at 6:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
To be fair though, the first month is free isn't it? Should be enough for extensive testing. Or does it only apply to first character? Iirc on trial you can make 3 characters for free at least..


As I remember it FFXI let you create two characters for free for the first month.
#15 Jun 30 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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This is true but some players want the freedom to play different races, also it was immensely handy having mules in different cities, if only to cut down on the inordinate amount of travel to get certain items at a reasonable price or to sell in other countries AH. Some might consider this a bit cheaty but after much careful deliberation I can safely say '***** those people'.

I suppose if they make travel A LOT easier and significantly increase the amount of storage in your home then that would be slightly more bearable. But I can't help feeling ripped off paying a premium for a service most MMOs give as standard.
#16 Jun 30 2009 at 6:57 AM Rating: Decent
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But I can't help feeling ripped off paying a premium for a service most MMOs give as standard.


There's this one thing they don't give as a standard though (job change)... well, depends what you feel is more important to you I guess.
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#17 Jun 30 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:

As I remember it FFXI let you create two characters for free for the first month.


It's not 30 days anymore. Those were promotional deals and sometimes they are still run, but the basic trial period is 14 days. You guys are talking about years ago.
#18 Jun 30 2009 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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godmademedoit wrote:
The more important question is "are we going to have to pay for our alts/mules?"

The most important question is, "Why do MMOs still force people to use mules/bankalts?"

Almost everyone has one; they are borderline manditory. The game companies aren't saving harddrive space by limiting people's inventories, because the inventory just gets spread across multiple characters.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 11:02am by Karelyn
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#19 Jun 30 2009 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not 30 days anymore. Those were promotional deals and sometimes they are still run, but the basic trial period is 14 days. You guys are talking about years ago.


While I'm not sure about continuing the free trial of 14 days, buying the game will give you the first month free, at least according to POL.

Iirc my rl friend got 30 days free on top of the 14 days from trial when he bought the game and started playing.
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#20 Jun 30 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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There's this one thing they don't give as a standard though (job change)... well, depends what you feel is more important to you I guess.


It's a fair point, but I think that should be something FF online games have on top of their competitors, rather than merely a buffer to compensate for the lack of freely available character slots.
#21 Jun 30 2009 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
ScorpionEx wrote:

I suppose the fee is there partly to deter players from just creating as many characters as they like.


For what purpose though? I mean, what does anyone care how many characters someone else has? I used up all my slots in WoW and it didn't break the game. And I didn't pay extra for them, either.

FFXI forced a lot of things on the player (and stfu that guy who always counters that with "durrr well you should have researched the game first!" Bite me.), and only giving you one character was kind of one of those situations where you felt like, sh*t, I better get this right because I only get one.

If we had at least a couple slots we could create characters of different races, and then mess around with each of them until we decided the one we really liked to stick with, that would be great.

At least it would be far better than deleting and recreating your character to experience a different race until you decided, or spending an extra few bucks a month which puts the cost of ownership higher than other games just to reach the level of flexibility those other games offer.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 10:11am by Torrence


And one massive flaw in WoW, is if you completely **** up on a character, and ruin your online reputation, you can simply change to an alt. There's even a name change service, which doesn't exactly help that problem.

A lot of the things *** hats do is because they know they can escape it relatively easy in WoW, and I'd have to say, from my 3 years with WoW, and a my 5 years with FFXI, there's a **** of a lot more "Ninjas" in WoW than there is in FFXI.

If SE want to deter that practice, by making it costly to escape, then I'm all for it. Your online actions should reflect into your reputation, in my opinion.

Also, I'm actually being quite balanced, by stating in my post, which you didn't quote in entirety, that it would be nice to have 2~3 free character slots, solely for giving people to choice to mess around on different races.

Multiple free character slots are great for individuals, but unless there's some way to connect the various characters into one "persona" so they can't escape their actions, it leaves the system open for people doing whatever they please.
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#22 Jun 30 2009 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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ScorpionEx wrote:
And one massive flaw in WoW, is if you completely **** up on a character, and ruin your online reputation, you can simply change to an alt. There's even a name change service, which doesn't exactly help that problem.

A lot of the things *** hats do is because they know they can escape it relatively easy in WoW, and I'd have to say, from my 3 years with WoW, and a my 5 years with FFXI, there's a **** of a lot more "Ninjas" in WoW than there is in FFXI.

The thing is, the only reason a person would escape in WoW, is if you let them escape.

There is a very solid system for speaking to Blizzard GMs, and after review, they do not hesitate to perma-ban ninjas, and restore the stolen equipment.

It's a very effective system. Could it be improved on by linking accounts together? Yeah definitely. But Blizzard's system isn't flawed, it's just different.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I prefer the one character system. People should certainly have the option of multiple characters, if they want to have different race/job combinations (Let's say, a Taru PLD and a Galka WHM :P). But if you have only one character, you should be able to experience all gameplay without restriction. One character should be capable of fulfilling all class/job and all inventory needs.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 12:08pm by Karelyn
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#23 Jun 30 2009 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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ScorpionEx wrote:

And one massive flaw in WoW, is if you completely **** up on a character, and ruin your online reputation, you can simply change to an alt. There's even a name change service, which doesn't exactly help that problem.


Pffffft.

If someone is going to be a dork, they're going to be a dork regardless of whether or not they can go hide on another toon. You (and others) make it sound like it was a common practice in the community for everyone to have at least one "bad boy" alt they could misbehave from so they needn't worry about tarnishing their reputation. People who did that were in the extreme minority, and you can't label something as a "massive flaw" in game design based on how it can be abused. If you had someone abuse you from an alt in any way that warranted GM intervention, any penalties to that player would be applied at the account level, so when you get right down to it the whole, "QQ they could be meanie heads and switch characters QQ" is a crock of ****. WoW is not the only game to allow for multiple characters within a given account included with the basic monthly fee. The purpose is to allow for diversity, and allows for race-restricted class choices based on lore or simply just for flavor.

Quote:
A lot of the things *** hats do is because they know they can escape it relatively easy in WoW, and I'd have to say, from my 3 years with WoW, and a my 5 years with FFXI, there's a **** of a lot more "Ninjas" in WoW than there is in FFXI.


That has everything to do with the age demographic and the access to gear and nothing to do with the multiple character system.
#24 Jun 30 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
ScorpionEx wrote:

And one massive flaw in WoW, is if you completely **** up on a character, and ruin your online reputation, you can simply change to an alt. There's even a name change service, which doesn't exactly help that problem.


Pffffft.

If someone is going to be a dork, they're going to be a dork regardless of whether or not they can go hide on another toon. You (and others) make it sound like it was a common practice in the community for everyone to have at least one "bad boy" alt they could misbehave from so they needn't worry about tarnishing their reputation. People who did that were in the extreme minority, and you can't label something as a "massive flaw" in game design based on how it can be abused. If you had someone abuse you from an alt in any way that warranted GM intervention, any penalties to that player would be applied at the account level, so when you get right down to it the whole, "QQ they could be meanie heads and switch characters QQ" is a crock of sh*t. WoW is not the only game to allow for multiple characters within a given account included with the basic monthly fee. The purpose is to allow for diversity, and allows for race-restricted class choices based on lore or simply just for flavor.

Quote:
A lot of the things *** hats do is because they know they can escape it relatively easy in WoW, and I'd have to say, from my 3 years with WoW, and a my 5 years with FFXI, there's a **** of a lot more "Ninjas" in WoW than there is in FFXI.


That has everything to do with the age demographic and the access to gear and nothing to do with the multiple character system.


Maybe it was just my server, but WoW certainly had a lot more irritating *** hats than practically any other game I've played. It's not based off a week of playing, but 3 years.

While true, you can make claims against characters, and it'll be enforced account wide, there has to be a definitive proof that they did ninja anything.

All too often, I've read, and witnessed, ninja characters going unpunished, because they "won the roll" and were just as eligible for the item as anyone else. It's an obvious ninja when everyone disagrees that character should get it, but when a GM actually comes and says "Oh, well, he won it fair and square" it kind of puts a damper on the whole "GM will take care of it"

As for abuse? I've had to GM call about it sometimes, and the normal response is "/ignore" and well, you can do that, problem being, /ignore isn't account wide, so it's pretty easy to just create an alt and another alt, you get the picture.

After things like that, even with pretty firm evidence it was the same person, I was told to just put them on /ignore and move on.

Maybe my servers GMs were crappy, but to be honest, I don't think it's a very good positive that you -can- do that. In fact, it's glaring weakness, in my opinion.

Also, while it is a minority, compared to the vast majority, I'm sorry to say, it is still more than any other game I've played. Not necessarily to me personally, but you can see it in Trade, Dalaran General.

As for your point about Age demographics and the like, I disagree. There's a lot less incentive to play by the rules when you can just switch characters, or even change your name, and not even have to worry about GM intervention, due to the somewhat lax approach to that behaviour.
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#25 Jun 30 2009 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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ScorpionEx wrote:
Maybe it was just my server, but WoW certainly had a lot more irritating *** hats than practically any other game I've played.

All that you said basically can be summed up by "WoW carries more people on a single server"

It's typically not that the WoW population is worse than FFXI. It probably had a fairly similar percentage of jerks. It just seems worse because there are simply a ton more people on a WoW server.

It also doesn't help, that the adult population in WoW pretty much has all the public channels on ignore, and only talks with their guildmates and the like.

Ultimately, all of this is what happens when you cram more people into the same area.
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#26 Jun 30 2009 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
All that you said basically can be summed up by "WoW carries more people on a single server"

It's typically not that the WoW population is worse than FFXI. It probably had a fairly similar percentage of jerks. It just seems worse because there are simply a ton more people on a WoW server.

It also doesn't help, that the adult population in WoW pretty much has all the public channels on ignore, and only talks with their guildmates and the like.

Ultimately, all of this is what happens when you cram more people into the same area.


I don't think this is true at all. Remember, even though WoW does carry more people on a server technically speaking, the two factions can't talk to each other. People don't consider the other faction when saying "people on my server are asshats" because... well, they can't speak.
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#27 Jun 30 2009 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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ScorpionEx wrote:

Maybe it was just my server, but WoW certainly had a lot more irritating *** hats than practically any other game I've played. It's not based off a week of playing, but 3 years.


Not really. I had more than my fair share of idiots in PUGs in FFXI as well as in WoW. The lack of wide-area chat channels in FFXI just meant that you were exposed to the shout spam idiocy gradually as you wandered through the various cities. At its peak, if you had consolidated all of the shout spam in San d'Oria (which was absolutely notorious for idiocy on Siren when I played), Bastok, Windurst, Jeuno, and Aht Urghan into one channel, you would have wound up with the FFXI equivalent to WoW's trade chat. If you had taken all of the asinine shout spam in Valkurm or Qufim and broadcast it to the entire zone instead of restricting it to /sh radius, you would have wound up with something not unlike Barrens chat. Just because the chat limitations didn't allow it to be seen to its full extent doesn't mean it wasn't present.

Quote:
While true, you can make claims against characters, and it'll be enforced account wide, there has to be a definitive proof that they did ninja anything.


If we're talking about people rolling on gear they can't use in dungeon runs (either because they can't equip it or because it's not suited to their class/spec), or exempting themselves from the loot conventions to get their grubby mitts on BoE drops, there are solutions. Master looter is one of them. If it's that much of a concern for you, don't run without lootmaster set. Generally speaking, my experience with WoW ninjas in 5-mans was extremely, extremely rare. If you're running raids without master loot, you're a bonehead. If you won't use the tools put in place to help you protect yourself, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

If you're talking about people scamming trades, there are ways to create the proof. It's a simple as a /tell before the trade saying, "I'm trading you <x> for <y>, right?" Don't make the trade unless they respond with confirmation. Then, if they ****** off with your goods, the GM has the chat log and the trade transaction to confirm the activity, and in most cases it results in a perma-ban.

Quote:
All too often, I've read, and witnessed, ninja characters going unpunished, because they "won the roll" and were just as eligible for the item as anyone else. It's an obvious ninja when everyone disagrees that character should get it, but when a GM actually comes and says "Oh, well, he won it fair and square" it kind of puts a damper on the whole "GM will take care of it"


Because technically, they did win it fair and square. If you want to operate a loot system differently from what the coded game mechanics offer, you can run with a master looter. If the party leader doesn't want to run with master looter, you can stay in the party and take your chances or leave. Generally speaking, upgrades in WoW aren't so hard to come by that any piece of gear in a 5-man is going to make or break you. Again, if you're PUGing raids or your guild doesn't raid with master looter, that's your problem. Get organized.

Quote:
As for abuse? I've had to GM call about it sometimes, and the normal response is "/ignore" and well, you can do that, problem being, /ignore isn't account wide, so it's pretty easy to just create an alt and another alt, you get the picture.


Switching to an alt to bypass the ignore on another character is an actionable offense. You ignore the first character. They log to an alt and send you another /w and you respond with a warning they if they contact you from another alt, they'll be reported for harassment and then you put the second character on ignore. The third character sending you a /w from that account will be the one that gets them suspended/banned. If you petition a GM because meanie-head guy is being mean, the GM will tell you to put them on ignore. If you petition a GM and tell them that the player is bypassing your filters by switching to alts, that player will be penalized.

Quote:
After things like that, even with pretty firm evidence it was the same person, I was told to just put them on /ignore and move on.


You have to be assertive with the GM. If someone is bypassing your ignore list by switching to alts and the GM just tells you to put them on ignore, you point out to the GM that the WoW ignore list has an extremely limited number of slots and it shouldn't be necessary for you to use up to 10 of them to deal with the behavior of one person.

Quote:
Maybe my servers GMs were crappy, but to be honest, I don't think it's a very good positive that you -can- do that. In fact, it's glaring weakness, in my opinion.


I just think it's an exceptionally lame criticism. QQ people misbehave QQ. Poeple didn't ninja in WoW because they could just log to another character with no one the wiser. As fast as leveling could be in WoW, it took time to level a toon (typically over 200 hours from 1-80). It's not like characters were a disposable vehicle for idiocy. It's just a BS argument.

Quote:
Also, while it is a minority, compared to the vast majority, I'm sorry to say, it is still more than any other game I've played. Not necessarily to me personally, but you can see it in Trade, Dalaran General.


Ya, and as above, if chat channels were zone-wide and all cities shared one global channel, it would have been the same in FFXI.

Quote:
As for your point about Age demographics and the like, I disagree. There's a lot less incentive to play by the rules when you can just switch characters, or even change your name, and not even have to worry about GM intervention, due to the somewhat lax approach to that behaviour.


If someone needs strict incentive to play by the rules, they're going to try to break those rules no matter what you do. You don't need to look to daddy to solve all of your problems, just like you don't need to look to a game developer to protect you from every possible angle of idiocy. You're given tools to address those kinds of things; make use of them and if they're inadequate, pursue the matter assertively. It also helps if you develop a slightly thicker skin so that something like developing multiple characters as a viable option doesn't become such an issue for you.
#28 Jun 30 2009 at 12:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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ScorpionEx wrote:

And one massive flaw in WoW, is if you completely **** up on a character, and ruin your online reputation, you can simply change to an alt. There's even a name change service, which doesn't exactly help that problem.


To be fair, you can do the exact same thing on FFXI as well. Go over to BG forums and check out the player warnings section, and you will see thread upon thread of people looking for random asshats that did douchebag things and then jumped servers, changing their name. Once the name is changed, it's hard to track someone down on account that everyone looks like everyone else. As long as they keep their mouth shut, no one will ever know.

So if your only argument is really that someone could escape a tarnished rep, you might want to acknowledge the fact that XI doesn't do it right, either.

Bottom line is, if someone is a douchbag, they will be a douchebag whether they have one character or a hundred. It's not a valid argument.

#29 Jun 30 2009 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir wrote:
ScorpionEx wrote:

Maybe it was just my server, but WoW certainly had a lot more irritating *** hats than practically any other game I've played. It's not based off a week of playing, but 3 years.


Not really. I had more than my fair share of idiots in PUGs in FFXI as well as in WoW. The lack of wide-area chat channels in FFXI just meant that you were exposed to the shout spam idiocy gradually as you wandered through the various cities. At its peak, if you had consolidated all of the shout spam in San d'Oria (which was absolutely notorious for idiocy on Siren when I played), Bastok, Windurst, Jeuno, and Aht Urghan into one channel, you would have wound up with the FFXI equivalent to WoW's trade chat. If you had taken all of the asinine shout spam in Valkurm or Qufim and broadcast it to the entire zone instead of restricting it to /sh radius, you would have wound up with something not unlike Barrens chat. Just because the chat limitations didn't allow it to be seen to its full extent doesn't mean it wasn't present.

Quote:
While true, you can make claims against characters, and it'll be enforced account wide, there has to be a definitive proof that they did ninja anything.


If we're talking about people rolling on gear they can't use in dungeon runs (either because they can't equip it or because it's not suited to their class/spec), or exempting themselves from the loot conventions to get their grubby mitts on BoE drops, there are solutions. Master looter is one of them. If it's that much of a concern for you, don't run without lootmaster set. Generally speaking, my experience with WoW ninjas in 5-mans was extremely, extremely rare. If you're running raids without master loot, you're a bonehead. If you won't use the tools put in place to help you protect yourself, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

If you're talking about people scamming trades, there are ways to create the proof. It's a simple as a /tell before the trade saying, "I'm trading you <x> for <y>, right?" Don't make the trade unless they respond with confirmation. Then, if they ****** off with your goods, the GM has the chat log and the trade transaction to confirm the activity, and in most cases it results in a perma-ban.

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All too often, I've read, and witnessed, ninja characters going unpunished, because they "won the roll" and were just as eligible for the item as anyone else. It's an obvious ninja when everyone disagrees that character should get it, but when a GM actually comes and says "Oh, well, he won it fair and square" it kind of puts a damper on the whole "GM will take care of it"


Because technically, they did win it fair and square. If you want to operate a loot system differently from what the coded game mechanics offer, you can run with a master looter. If the party leader doesn't want to run with master looter, you can stay in the party and take your chances or leave. Generally speaking, upgrades in WoW aren't so hard to come by that any piece of gear in a 5-man is going to make or break you. Again, if you're PUGing raids or your guild doesn't raid with master looter, that's your problem. Get organized.

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As for abuse? I've had to GM call about it sometimes, and the normal response is "/ignore" and well, you can do that, problem being, /ignore isn't account wide, so it's pretty easy to just create an alt and another alt, you get the picture.


Switching to an alt to bypass the ignore on another character is an actionable offense. You ignore the first character. They log to an alt and send you another /w and you respond with a warning they if they contact you from another alt, they'll be reported for harassment and then you put the second character on ignore. The third character sending you a /w from that account will be the one that gets them suspended/banned. If you petition a GM because meanie-head guy is being mean, the GM will tell you to put them on ignore. If you petition a GM and tell them that the player is bypassing your filters by switching to alts, that player will be penalized.

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After things like that, even with pretty firm evidence it was the same person, I was told to just put them on /ignore and move on.


You have to be assertive with the GM. If someone is bypassing your ignore list by switching to alts and the GM just tells you to put them on ignore, you point out to the GM that the WoW ignore list has an extremely limited number of slots and it shouldn't be necessary for you to use up to 10 of them to deal with the behavior of one person.

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Maybe my servers GMs were crappy, but to be honest, I don't think it's a very good positive that you -can- do that. In fact, it's glaring weakness, in my opinion.


I just think it's an exceptionally lame criticism. QQ people misbehave QQ. Poeple didn't ninja in WoW because they could just log to another character with no one the wiser. As fast as leveling could be in WoW, it took time to level a toon (typically over 200 hours from 1-80). It's not like characters were a disposable vehicle for idiocy. It's just a BS argument.

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Also, while it is a minority, compared to the vast majority, I'm sorry to say, it is still more than any other game I've played. Not necessarily to me personally, but you can see it in Trade, Dalaran General.


Ya, and as above, if chat channels were zone-wide and all cities shared one global channel, it would have been the same in FFXI.

Quote:
As for your point about Age demographics and the like, I disagree. There's a lot less incentive to play by the rules when you can just switch characters, or even change your name, and not even have to worry about GM intervention, due to the somewhat lax approach to that behaviour.


If someone needs strict incentive to play by the rules, they're going to try to break those rules no matter what you do. You don't need to look to daddy to solve all of your problems, just like you don't need to look to a game developer to protect you from every possible angle of idiocy. You're given tools to address those kinds of things; make use of them and if they're inadequate, pursue the matter assertively. It also helps if you develop a slightly thicker skin so that something like developing multiple characters as a viable option doesn't become such an issue for you.


Well, as far as I've witnessed, it's exactly as I described. I don't doubt your interpretation though, it's quite possible. However, playing on the servers I did, I ran into a significantly more spam, rants and generally bad attitudes on WoW.

I've no reason to lie. I still play the game to this day, and enjoy it. So why on earth would I make up claims for no reason?

Oh, I fully understand the rules of Master Loot and I don't think I've ever been in a raid, PUG or otherwise, that hasn't made use of it, but thanks for inferring I'm a bonehead. I rarely lead groups in WoW so I don't have the option of doing so in HCs and the like, which is where the majority of ninjas strike.

In fact, there's not many 5 mans that will run with a Master Looter, simply because most HCs are PuG and why on earth you'd trust someone you most likely don't know to be fair in dealing out loot, is beyond me.

Simply put, I've personally heard about through in game friends, or witnessed myself, a **** of a lot more Ninjas over loot than I have ever done in FFXI.

Also, in regards to your trade story. I've had a friend who actually had something like you describe happen to him. He got his things back, but the guy didn't disappear, at all. In fact, you hear a lot of it on trade, about people cheating people, usually the same names. Maybe the GMs suck on my server?

Yes, they did win it fair and square, exactly why they'll not do anything about it. Inside 5 Mans most won't run with Master Looter for reasons I indicated earlier, which is predictably the places where you hear the majority of Ninjas happening.

The reason why? Because they're on a character that really doesn't have to have a good reputation, because if worse comes to worse, they can reroll, use an alt or the kicker, change their name.

Also, I'd appreciate if you stop being so **** passive aggressive and poking insults at me, and trying to undermine my claims by insinuating stuff you have no idea to be true. It's rather rude.

Telling me the procedure will not in the slightest change the fact that a guy went through 6 alts after being ignored by me repeatedly, with the GM telling me to put him on /ignore and never actually following it up.

You can believe it didn't happen, but like I say, I actually enjoy WoW, so I've no reason to lie. The guy never got banned, didn't even get suspended, and who knows, maybe he went on to bother someone else and never get anything done.

In this specific case, I made it clear that I wanted the character warned about his behaviour at the very least, so it wasn't a failing on my behalf.

Yet again, with your passive aggressive attitude. It's rude, and frankly, I think you need to get the **** off your high horse.

I'm not whining about the devs not protecting me, and I'm not at all bothered by peoples desire to have multiple characters.

In fact, I'm actually half in support of it, I just don't see the need of enabling a system like WoWs, where you can create as many characters as you wish, and in my opinion, escape the negative actions you've committed, by a sanctioned system.

I have thick enough skin, to not turn around and start insulting people because they have a differing opinion. Can you claim the same?




Edited, Jun 30th 2009 4:28pm by ScorpionEx
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#30 Jun 30 2009 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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ScorpionEx wrote:

Simply put, I've personally heard about through in game friends, or witnessed myself, a **** of a lot more Ninjas over loot than I have ever done in FFXI.


That's because there's a **** of a lot more loot made available to your standard groups in WoW than there are in FFXI. What kind of loot is there to ninja in a merit/xp party? How often do you PUG FFXI endgame? Oh...I see. Can't ninja something that isn't there, and people are far less likely to ninja in an organized group event than they are in a PUG. Right. That would probably be a better explanation for why there are more visible ninjas in WoW than there are in FFXI than blaming it on the multiple character system, yes?

Quote:
Also, in regards to your trade story. I've had a friend who actually had something like you describe happen to him. He got his things back, but the guy didn't disappear, at all. In fact, you hear a lot of it on trade, about people cheating people, usually the same names. Maybe the GMs suck on my server?


Servers don't have their own individual GM staff. If you cover your *** by leaving a "paper trail" of chat logs outlining the nature of the transaction, it's a safe bet that if there was foul play, action has been taken. I've known of people who have received permanent bans for their first scam offense, and people who have only received warnings (which were noted on their file so that future 'infractions' would cause an escalating penalty). A lot of the "so-and-so is a ninja!" stuff you hear is fabricated, or is done by people who somehow think their interests are better served by being a loudmouth in trade than they are by opening a GM ticket.

Quote:
Yes, they did win it fair and square, exactly why they'll not do anything about it. Inside 5 Mans most won't run with Master Looter for reasons I indicated earlier, which is predictably the places where you hear the majority of Ninjas happening.


Exactly. It's 5-man loot, and ninja behavior has been extremely rare on both realms where I've leveled a character to the cap. The vast majority of players know that their reputation isn't worth sacrificing for a 5g vendor sale, and the folks who misbehave around BoE blues aren't worth getting uptight over. I'm not saying it's right, but I am definitely saying that connecting it in some way to the multiple character system is just a ridiculous stretch.

Quote:
The reason why? Because they're on a character that really doesn't have to have a good reputation, because if worse comes to worse, they can reroll, use an alt or the kicker, change their name.


Absolutely nothing to do with it. Nobody is going to be indifferent about trashing their reputation on a level 80 character for the sake of a 5-15g vendor sale just because they can reroll or change their name. That's absurd.

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Also, I'd appreciate if you stop being so **** passive aggressive and poking insults at me, and trying to undermine my claims by insinuating stuff you have no idea to be true. It's rather rude.


I'll think about it. :P

Quote:
Telling me the procedure will not in the slightest change the fact that a guy went through 6 alts after being ignored by me repeatedly, with the GM telling me to put him on /ignore and never actually following it up.


What was your part in it? What did you do to get them so riled up and/or their attention so focused on you that they felt compelled to switch to that many characters to get their digs in? Protip: GMs look at your part, too. If they see anything that indicates that you weren't a 100% innocent bystander in a random act of chat violence, they'll let you suffer for your oversight in the social department.

Quote:
In this specific case, I made it clear that I wanted the character warned about his behaviour at the very least, so it wasn't a failing on my behalf.


You know what would have been more effective? "I've already put 6 of his alts on ignore and I'm asking you to address the issue now because obviously the tools I have been given aren't working. I expect this to be resolved and to not be receiving any more messages from this account." If you get another /w from another character from that account, you open another ticket and demand confirmation that it will be dealt with or to have your ticket escalated. This is assuming, of course, that your decision to put the first character on ignore didn't come after an exchange where your own behavior was less than ideal.

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Yet again, with your passive aggressive attitude. It's rude, and frankly, I think you need to get the **** off your high horse.


Honestly? I think you need to get a clue. I'm not saying you should tolerate harassment. I'm not saying that Blizzard has an ideal solution for it. I'm saying that to imply that the multiple character system in any way contributes to a significant increase in poor behavior is functionally ridiculous.

Quote:
In fact, I'm actually half in support of it, I just don't see the need of enabling a system like WoWs, where you can create as many characters as you wish, and in my opinion, escape the negative actions you've committed, by a sanctioned system.


You can create 10 characters/realm to a maximum of 50 characters total. If someone sees that as an opportunity to be a douche and routinely toss away social contacts and character progression for the sake of starting over, they're penalizing themselves. Idiots like that represent the extreme minority. The extreme minority.
#31 Jun 30 2009 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
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ScorpionEx wrote:
Also, I'd appreciate if you stop being so **** passive aggressive and poking insults at me, and trying to undermine my claims by insinuating stuff you have no idea to be true. It's rather rude.

You'll have to forgive Aurelius. It's his time of the month :P

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 5:02pm by Karelyn
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#32 Jun 30 2009 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Karelyn wrote:
You'll have to forgive Aurelius. It's his time of the month :P

I think you have ScorpionEX and Aurelius confused.
#33 Jun 30 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
I believe the limited inventory is an effort to slow down economic monopoly a bit, in-game. Don't think I have to explain much on that~
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#34 Jun 30 2009 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the comment that any single character should be able to do everything, given enough time (including all the crafting, if I feel the need to do it all), so multiple characters shouldn't be required. I think SE is going to get enough of our money that they don't need to be charging for extra characters.

I guess the only thing I'd add is that when I reach the level cap, once per class, I want 5 to 10 more safe slots so I can hang on to whatever equipment I was using so I don't have to go search the AH again later. I'm assuming expansions will increase the level cap, so this should occur at whatever the current level cap is.
#35 Jun 30 2009 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe the limited inventory is an effort to slow down economic monopoly a bit, in-game. Don't think I have to explain much on that~

Actually, could you explain that?
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#36 Jun 30 2009 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I believe the limited inventory is an effort to slow down economic monopoly a bit, in-game. Don't think I have to explain much on that~


...huh?
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#37 Jun 30 2009 at 9:18 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't make this thread to discuss if multiple characters should be charged an additional fee, but it seems an appropriate enough question to ask.

You get multiple characters in many games because there is no way to experience the entirety of the game on a single character.

In FFXI and (I hope) FFXIV, you will be able to play every quest, every job/class, and every aspect of the game with just ONE character.

If you create multiple characters it is for one of only a few reasons:

#1 a mule.. to carry extra gear for you because you have amassed so many items it takes an extra character to carry them all. Well, there comes a time to throw crap out. You should be able to store the important items on your main and in your main's bank... but if you keep hanging on to every rabbit hide you get in the game... well you SHOULD run out of room and have to create a mule. A mule is not unique to FFXI... think about your 'bank alt' in WoW.... (and other games, but lets face it, most of them are just WoW clones)

#2 A second race character... you either create this because you never really wanted to play the race you started with, or you want to min-max your abilities and stats to the most extreme. Well, you are either the rarest of players (you min-maxxers caring about that extra 10 mp you coulda had) or you are just sick of your avatar. In the second case... why should you care, just delete your main and restart. If you are the min-maxxer... well yeah perhaps there should be a fee for wanting that extra +10 mp.

#3 You are playing on a family member or friend's account, and you wanted your own character. Why shouldn't you be able to? No problem... up to a limit. How about 3 free characters per paid account? that way you and 2 friends can all play the game for a monthly fee? 3 not enough? we can negotiate.. how about 5?

#4 You have a bad reputation with your main amongst the server population, and want to change characters or names in order to keep doing the same bad behavior that made you unpopular to begin with.


Any other reasons why you would need more than a single character in the system that made FFXI so unique?

I think #1,#2, and #3 can be resolved by simply adding a bank and allowing up to 3-5 characters for free.

#4 will only be resolved by the player going back to AoC or WAR or WoW or LOTRO, or any game where you are free from having to respond for your online actions. (responsibility I think it is called)
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#38 Jul 01 2009 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I believe the limited inventory is an effort to slow down economic monopoly a bit, in-game. Don't think I have to explain much on that~


Translation: The whole system of FFXI from the AH to the rather poor inventory and such all scream anti market changing. However, several things counter this such as non linked AHs and NMs. Now while SE might of made all these problems with the inventory and such to actually do something like this.... I highly doubt it, and even then.. it just did not work.
#39 Jul 01 2009 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Kharmageddon wrote:
Instead of mules, they should just give us more ways to stash items / more item slots to stash items in. Changing characters takes away from the overall experience. Being able to control more on one character would deter a lot of players from ever thinking about rolling another one.


Agreed. I'd much rather pay a dollar extra for a second (or third, or whatever) Mog Safe than a mule, provided it would still allow for systematic organization (Ex: I can put armor on Mog Safe 2, weapons in MS3, consumables in MS4, etc.). ****, given the inconvenience of the whole "send mail -> logout -> login -> get mail -> send mail -> logout -> login -> get mail -> repeat three times" just to switch jobs, I'd pay for additional storage space over using free mules.
#40 Jul 01 2009 at 11:34 PM Rating: Default
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I am surprised. So far there has been nothing but approval for maintaining the single character system.
The only complaints seem to be storage problems and mule issues.

I was hoping to see someone step up and argue the other side FOR multiple characters.

But if everyone seems to agree with wanting a single character system and more storage space, lets hope SE keeps that one aspect in FFXIV.
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#41 Jul 02 2009 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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ScorpionEx wrote:

As for the single character system? Yes. It's one of the best features in FFXI. Everything you do tends to be somewhat meaningful, since you'll always be using that character as long as you play.


Not just that. The fact that you are always on the same character makes it much easier to find your friends online. And you actually care to make some quests, because if you do them it will stay with you forever, not the "god, i need to get my airship pass. For the 5th time"
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