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#1 Jun 30 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Default
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Anyone agree we should have this item in FFXIV ?

Hearthstone
Use: Returns you to your homepoint.
Cooldown: 20min
Rare/Ex
#2 Jun 30 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Default
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There are tons of ways you can return to your Home Point already, why add another? =/
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#3 Jun 30 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Skeptic wrote:
There are tons of ways you can return to your Home Point already, why add another? =/


Really?
I didn’t know that FFXIV was out yet, but I might be wrong.
#4 Jun 30 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I personally think it's a good idea to have something like this. The OP obviously took the name straight from WoW which will immediately illicit rate downs from some of the close-minded folks in here, but it would be a great thing to have. No more losing XP death warping. No more trying to find ways around (read: exploit the system) the XP loss (NIN blowing up, Bards trying to reflect off a colibri, etc). No more leveling a job that you might not like at all to 17 just to quest a spell that you only need once in a while anyway.

Warp is not such a defining spell for black mage that they will suddenly cease to exist if everyone has a way to go home. If anything, it would take some stress off those end-game black mages who stick around after events asking who needs a D2 while the lazy melee are off making a sandwich.

If SE gets it right off the bat, there will be no need to add a hundred different warp items and confuse the issue. Simple, and DONE.
#5 Jun 30 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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More appropriately, There can be tons of ways FFXIV could get people to their home points; Why the **** do they have to directly copy WoW?

Edit: And I don't just mean the name, what exactly is wrong with Scroll of warp or even just the spell?

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 4:20pm by ditx
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#6 Jun 30 2009 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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ditx wrote:

More appropriately, There can be tons of ways FFXIV could get people to their home points; Why the **** do they have to directly copy WoW?


This is why we really need to get away from using the names that WoW does when things that would be really good are suggested. It doesn't have to be a hearthstone. It could be a communication device that links you to your Moogle who would then whisk his master back through space and time to arrive safely at the shared dwelling.

For the love of soup people, show some imagination and stop dismissing everything on the grounds that "WoW has it".


EDIT:
ditx wrote:

Edit: And I don't just mean the name, what exactly is wrong with Scroll of warp or even just the spell?


1. You spend a hefty amount of CP or IS on them.
2. Only one class can use it.

What we were talking about was an item that everyone would have, that had no other cost than a cooldown period. It's not the end of the world.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 4:25pm by Torrence
#7 Jun 30 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Much larger cooldown than 20 mins. A cooldown between 1 and 2 hours would be better.

Being able to transport to a certain point too often will make the game world feel considerably smaller, which we don't want. That was one of the things I liked about FFXI, the world felt giant. Adding too many things like flight paths and ways to instantly transport across the world will inevitably make it feel smaller than it is.
#8 Jun 30 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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ditx wrote:
More appropriately, There can be tons of ways FFXIV could get people to their home points; Why the **** do they have to directly copy WoW?

Edit: And I don't just mean the name, what exactly is wrong with Scroll of warp or even just the spell?


If you don't have a BLM handy, or can't afford to sub BLM because you're not a caster and you need a subjob appropriate for a particular group role for which /BLM is not suitable, Warp is not an option. If you just made a big purchase with Conquest Points (or expansion area equivalents) and don't have enough of those points left for a Warp Scroll, you're pooched.

I know! How about...Warp Scrolls were made permanent or free from an NPC with a 1 hour cooldown! Same concept, more FFXI centric application for the narrow minded amongst you. Delicious.
#9 Jun 30 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
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isn't that what a warp scroll used for?
if u left town w/o a warp scroll thats ur own fault, you should always have a warp scroll on you. its cheap, and it does the job.
if u can't afford it nuts to u, get more conquest or IS points. i ALWAYS had enough to get a warp scroll. theres no excuse for not having one.

sure u gota pay for it, but warps back to ur HP shouldn't be free, imo warps should cost u something.
theres no need to introduce an item for an already existing spell, weither it be a form retrace, warp, escape, tele-crystal, or recall.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 4:30pm by Leyego
#10 Jun 30 2009 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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Leyego wrote:

isn't that what a warp scroll used for?
if u left town w/o a warp scroll thats ur own fault, you should always have a warp scroll on you. its cheap, and it does the job.
if u can't afford it nuts to u, get more conquest or IS points. i ALWAYS had enough to get a warp scroll. theres no excuse for not having one.

sure u gota pay for it, but warps back to ur HP shouldn't be free, imo warps should cost u something.
theres no need to introduce an item for an already existing spell, weither it be a form retrace, warp, escape, tele-crystal, or recall.


Why do you want this game to be exactly like XI? Go play XI.

I apologize for the hostility but it's getting to a point where I am a little tired of the lobbying to keep everything exactly the same because the game will somehow be fail if it isn't as huge a grind as XI. It doesn't even feel like we are really having discussions about possibilities anymore. \

What is the actual problem with everyone having a way to warp? It's safe to say that BLM isn't going to fall apart with the loss of the monopoly on that one spell. So what is the actual problem?
#11 Jun 30 2009 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
For the love of soup people, show some imagination and stop dismissing everything on the grounds that "WoW has it".


Is someone dismissing that XIV should have a form of Warp? I think the issue is more 'what's the point of this thread?' Seriously... SE has already implemented 'Hearthstones' in XI ... they've been there since launch. They're called Warp Cudgel, Scroll of instant Warp, Tavnazian ring. I'd bet my pinkies that they'll be in XIV in some form as well. There's nothing new or imaginative here.

Maybe the OP would like to explain why he thinks there's any question that there won't be a warp item in the game so that there's actually something to discuss here?
#12 Jun 30 2009 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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PopeyesOpenEye wrote:

Is someone dismissing that XIV should have a form of Warp? I think the issue is more 'what's the point of this thread?' Seriously... SE has already implemented 'Hearthstones' in XI ... they've been there since launch. They're called Warp Cudgel, Scroll of instant Warp, Tavnazian ring. I'd bet my pinkies that they'll be in XIV in some form as well. There's nothing new or imaginative here.


Warp Cudgel - Level 36, Crafted only
Scroll of Instant Warp - 750 CP or IS
Tavnazian Ring (are you serious?) - Level 60, CoP 8-1, teleports you to the safehold

What we are talking about is a basic mog house warp, available to everyone, without involving a long drawn out quest or lots of money/CP.

I don't get why anyone would be against it.
#13 Jun 30 2009 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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im not saying it should be the same as FF11, but then again it shouldn't be the same as WoW. if u like the idea of a free item that warps u back to town go play WoW.

warping should cost u something. fast travel should never be free, u gota earn the right to use it. handing it out left and right like free balloons sounds stupid. weither u gota run to warp areas, have to pay for it, or work ur *** off to get that spell u should ALWAYS have to earn it.

u guys gota stop being lazy, ya it cuts down on time i get it but having access to it from the get go conditions ppl to become lazy.

i no its not suposed to be a chore, but if u don't want to work at something then ur playing the wrong game.
#14 Jun 30 2009 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I see... well I like having these items be disposables that have to be factored into your management of funds or earned through a difficult quest-line. They're really not that hard to keep on your person in XI and I imagine they won't be in XIV either. What's being suggested is so simplified that is superfluous to even catagorize it as an item, just stick it in the menu from the start and there you go, everyone has a 'get out of jail free' card when it's time to go home.

As a side note my favorite option is Warp Cudgels. Crafts need in demand craftables in order to be a relevant part of the economy and even the most trivial items can contribute to that.
#15 Jun 30 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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In EQOA every class got a lvl 1 ability called Return Home. It took a minute to cast. Also you could walk while casting spells but you couldn't run.
#16 Jun 30 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Why do you want this game to be exactly like XI? Go play XI.

I apologize for the hostility but it's getting to a point where I am a little tired of the lobbying to keep everything exactly the same because the game will somehow be fail if it isn't as huge a grind as XI. It doesn't even feel like we are really having discussions about possibilities anymore. \


I think people are less about keeping it exactly the same and more about keeping it as different from WoW as possible. The games are both good for completely opposite reasons, and simple logic says making them too similar in some ways will only hurt the game.

A lot of people aren't really having discussions about interesting possibilities and innovations as much as they are saying to copy stuff directly.

In this case, Warp scrolls/cudgels were already in XI, and frankly, it was done pretty well. For a very small CP cost, you could warp.
Cudgels were excellent for crafters. Black Mages could warp themselves and Warp others.

You can get so much more interesting uses and methods out of the game instead of just giving the ability away to everyone for free, which is pretty much an unimaginative lazy way out, in a design context.

Quote:
Being able to transport to a certain point too often will make the game world feel considerably smaller, which we don't want. That was one of the things I liked about FFXI, the world felt giant. Adding too many things like flight paths and ways to instantly transport across the world will inevitably make it feel smaller than it is.


This is a wonderful point.


Edited, Jun 30th 2009 2:39pm by Kirbster
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#17 Jun 30 2009 at 1:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't have a problem with the way it is now in FFXI and would like to see similar way implemented in FFXIV. You have multiple options in FFXI to get home or to a area.

Warp Cudgel
Warp Scroll
Return Ring
Outpost Warping
Tavnazian Ring
Warp Spell
Dying(lol what it is an option)
#18 Jun 30 2009 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Then why wasn't the suggestion: Make Scrolls of instant warps key items with recgarge times?
Why is WoW ALWAYS the center of focus?
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#19 Jun 30 2009 at 1:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Why do you want this game to be exactly like XI? Go play XI.

I apologize for the hostility but it's getting to a point where I am a little tired of the lobbying to keep everything exactly the same because the game will somehow be fail if it isn't as huge a grind as XI. It doesn't even feel like we are really having discussions about possibilities anymore. \


That goes both ways, how come everytime anyone wants something even similar to the way ffxi has it, people has to think "go play ffxi". I don't want it exactly the same, I want different items and different ways, but I want the concept to be the same. I don't want everything to be instanced it just seems like "hey I can get anywhere in the game in 5 minutes", and this makes the game feel really small and easy to me. It was easy to keep warp cuds, or get warp scrolls everytime you left, and it was at a good price, I don't want stuff to be free. I don't mind having many items to warp but cool down time of 24 hours was good, so you couldn't just warp all day anytime you wanted to. Summonable mounts, and personalized fly ships, and 20min cool down on warp to home point, just kind of makes the game feel very easy and small to me. They could tie in a lot of things like crafting, economy, and other stuff, instead of just giving you warp anytime for free.
#20 Jun 30 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Why is WoW ALWAYS the center of focus?


Because the forum has been invaded by WoW fanboys that cringe and bite at the slightest criticism toward the game, and basically only offer the advice that XIV should be more like WoW. (it's the only way it will be successful!)

I'm not saying that XI doesn't have their share of rabid fanboys as well, but I mean, really. I would expect those on a forum for the sequel to XI.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 2:25pm by Kirbster
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#21 Jun 30 2009 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:

I think people are less about keeping it exactly the same and more about keeping it as different from WoW as possible. The games are both good for completely opposite reasons, and simple logic says making them too similar in some ways will only hurt the game.


Ya, but what you don't seem to be understanding is that a concept is a concept is a concept and it doesn't matter where else it has been implemented. If you're unable to evaluate the concept on its own individual merits, **** off. It's just that simple. The concept is this: a non-consumable item on a cooldown that allows you to return to your homepoint. Yes or no? Does it matter if the example given is drawn from WoW? NO. It doesn't. Evaluate the concept, not the source and all of this, "Too much like WoW!! QQ QQ QQ moar" ******** would cease immediately.
#22 Jun 30 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Ya, but what you don't seem to be understanding is that a concept is a concept is a concept and it doesn't matter where else it has been implemented. If you're unable to evaluate the concept on its own individual merits, **** off. It's just that simple. The concept is this: a non-consumable item on a cooldown that allows you to return to your homepoint. Yes or no? Does it matter if the example given is drawn from WoW? NO. It doesn't. Evaluate the concept, not the source and all of this, "Too much like WoW!! QQ QQ QQ moar" bullsh*t would cease immediately.


True, "Go Play FFXI" bullsh*t need to cease also, because as you said a concept is a concept is a concept. Well said, I never said its too much like WoW or anything, just saying that it should go both ways.
#23 Jun 30 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
Kirbster wrote:

I think people are less about keeping it exactly the same and more about keeping it as different from WoW as possible. The games are both good for completely opposite reasons, and simple logic says making them too similar in some ways will only hurt the game.


Ya, but what you don't seem to be understanding is that a concept is a concept is a concept and it doesn't matter where else it has been implemented. If you're unable to evaluate the concept on its own individual merits, **** off. It's just that simple. The concept is this: a non-consumable item on a cooldown that allows you to return to your homepoint. Yes or no? Does it matter if the example given is drawn from WoW? NO. It doesn't. Evaluate the concept, not the source and all of this, "Too much like WoW!! QQ QQ QQ moar" bullsh*t would cease immediately.


Whoa there, sparky. Now who's getting all ***** for no reason?

No, it doesn't matter that it's drawn from WoW, not at all.
But like I mentioned in my post, the concept itself I don't like either for reasons unrelated to WoW.

Kirbster wrote:
In this case, Warp scrolls/cudgels were already in XI, and frankly, it was done pretty well. For a very small CP cost, you could warp.
Cudgels were excellent for crafters. Black Mages could warp themselves and Warp others.

You can get so much more interesting uses and methods out of the game instead of just giving the ability away to everyone for free, which is pretty much an unimaginative lazy way out, in a design context.


and

Riav wrote:
Being able to transport to a certain point too often will make the game world feel considerably smaller, which we don't want. That was one of the things I liked about FFXI, the world felt giant. Adding too many things like flight paths and ways to instantly transport across the world will inevitably make it feel smaller than it is.


Edited, Jun 30th 2009 2:41pm by Kirbster
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#24 Jun 30 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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since where rating the concept now.

for an item this valuable it shouldn't be free, id expect a great feat to be done b4 ur rewarded with an item this powerful. giving it to ppl from the get go makes them lazy and its not needed. if u don't want to work for it the run back to your home point. that will teach u a lesson about how valuable an item like that really is.


having an item like that aint bad, but the concept of giving it to ppl free of charge from the start is a bad one.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 5:45pm by Leyego
#25 Jun 30 2009 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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The item is standard in MMOs now...I really can't imagine it not being implemented. WAR even has a dual home system where you can choose which place to return to. Of course, WAR is very anti-travel which isn't very FF-like.
#26 Jun 30 2009 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
Whoa there, sparky. Now who's getting all ***** for no reason?


If you take this:


Kirbster wrote:
In this case, Warp scrolls/cudgels were already in XI, and frankly, it was done pretty well. For a very small CP cost, you could warp.
Cudgels were excellent for crafters. Black Mages could warp themselves and Warp others.

You can get so much interesting uses and methods out of the game instead of just giving the ability away to everyone for free, which is pretty much an unimaginative lazy way out, in a design context.


without this:

Quote:
Because the forum has been invaded by WoW fanboys that cringe and bite at the slightest criticism toward the game, and basically only offer the advice that XIV should be more like WoW. (it's the only way it will be successful!)


you're having a reasonable discussion. Throw in the reference to WoW and you're just being a fanboi dork. If you read through every thread here, you'll find that the majority of contention about WoW isn't coming from people who have played WoW discussing concepts that they like from that game, it's coming from FFXI morons condemning the ideas strictly because they've been implemented in WoW. If you're going to dislike an idea, dislike an idea on its own merits and discuss it as such. The instant a person's last remaining argument is reduced to, "It's too much like WoW!", they've lost the debate.

Someguy> I hope this new restaurant serves grilled meat!
Otherguy> YUCK! Grilled salmon is gross!
Someguy> uhh...it...doesn't have to be salmon..maybe grilled chicken or something
Otherguy> It's still grilled! Too much like grilled salmon!
Someguy> salmon and chicken don't taste anything alike...
Otherguy> NO!! It's STILL GRILLED!! TOO MUCH LIKE GRILLED SALMON!!
Someguy> Okay then, starve or go home and eat, ya stupid *******.
#27 Jun 30 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Do you only read the first half of my posts?

I also say that XI has the same brand of rabid fanboys.

If you're somehow suggesting that most of the suggestions on the forum haven't been of the ilk I described on both sides of the spectrum, then you're living in some kind of dreamworld.


Not only that, but combining the two posts have absolutely nothing to do with the validity of my reasons of why I dislike the idea. Absolutely nothing.

Enjoy your accusatory logical fallacies, sir.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 2:57pm by Kirbster
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#28 Jun 30 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
Do you only read the first half of my posts?


It doesn't matter what the first half of your posts said. I'm not responding to your take on the homepoint issue...I'm responding to your comment about WoW players. It's inappropriate, inaccurate, and inflammatory. If you want to take the high road, set an example instead of fueling the flames.
#29 Jun 30 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Look, I'm only stating what I've seen to pretty much be the general rule on this forum. It's not inaccurate, OR inflammatory.

It's like you're trying to say there are no WoW fanboys, and only FFXI fanboys on this forum, when there are supple amounts of both. (Fanboys, not players. They're different.) Are you trying to say that people suggesting ideas from WoW haven't been just as aggressive or nasty? You're kind of being a little biased yourself, here.

Quote:
It doesn't matter what the first half of your posts said. I'm not responding to your take on the homepoint issue


That's unfortunate, because that's what this thread is actually about. Let's cut this nonsense short.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 3:09pm by Kirbster
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#30 Jun 30 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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I, for one, think hearthing is an excellent idea. I think that if they went with the system where you can spend points on various abilities for your character, warping/hearthing should be a 0 point ability that everyone gets on a 30 minute cooldown. Will the world feel smaller? Sure, if you use it every 30 minutes on the nose. I'd only plan on using it when I want to hit a town. If they fix itemization, I won't be returning to town every 30 minutes to sell things. Not to mention the long road back to where I was when I warped.

I see no issue with having something that takes me back to home base. Maybe have it so you can only set mog houses as your warp point.
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#31 Jun 30 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Someguy> I hope this new restaurant serves grilled meat!
Otherguy> YUCK! Grilled salmon is gross!
Someguy> uhh...it...doesn't have to be salmon..maybe grilled chicken or something
Otherguy> It's still grilled! Too much like grilled salmon!
Someguy> salmon and chicken don't taste anything alike...
Otherguy> NO!! It's STILL GRILLED!! TOO MUCH LIKE GRILLED SALMON!!
Someguy> Okay then, starve or go home and eat, ya stupid *******.


more like...

Someguy> I hope they have chicken at this new McDonald's.
Otherguy> What are you talking about?! McDonald's has a few chicken sandwiches to choose from already.
Someguy> Yeah but they should fry it and put it in a Red and White Bucket.
Otherguy> Sounds like you just want to eat KFC chicken...
Someguy> Of course I do! KFC's chicken is the best!
Otherguy> It's not bad but you can get fried chicken anywhere, I like the extra flavor of the special sauce on the McChicken.
Someguy> If you like the McChicken I suggest you keep eating at the other McDonlad's.
Otherguy> <Huh?!>
Someguy> Fanboi
Otherguy> ...
#32 Jun 30 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
Why is WoW ALWAYS the center of focus?


Because the forum has been invaded by WoW fanboys that cringe and bite at the slightest criticism toward the game, and basically only offer the advice that XIV should be more like WoW. (it's the only way it will be successful!)


Not once have I seen anyone act like this. All I have seen is someone bring up something that is in wow (sometimes they don't even mention WoW) and suddenly you have 20 crazed FFXI uber-fans flocking to the thread saying "we don't want WoW" or some other useless comments.

It's when this happens people like AureliusSir show up and defend, not WoW, but ideas and thought because it seems people who blindly hate wow don't like them either.
#33 Jun 30 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

It's when this happens people like AureliusSir show up and defend, not WoW, but ideas and thought because it seems people who blindly hate wow don't like them either.


I think the most common problem is that people are too quick to accuse others disagreeing with an idea as 'blindly hating WoW or FFXI' in a strawman argument.

Just because I don't like some ideas or don't think they'd translate well doesn't make me a WoW-hater, especially since I play and enjoy both games.


Am I the only one who laughed at the fact that the person using a metaphor involving Mcdonald's and KFC chicken was named Popeyes?


Edited, Jun 30th 2009 3:27pm by Kirbster
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#34 Jun 30 2009 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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I like the idea simply for the reason that I got tired of casting warp2 on large groups at the end of events.

Admittedly a selfish reason...
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#35 Jun 30 2009 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is how I see it...

Having something like a hearthstone on a reasonable timer (hourish) does nothing to take away from the game. I see no point in making a player waste time walking (or riding) back through several zones just for the sake of getting to a town. (Especially since they walked/rode to their spot already) It does not add any challenge to the game, it just makes it a bit annoying.



Edited, Jun 30th 2009 6:36pm by Litie
#36 Jun 30 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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How about a more original solution to the 'home point' problem then just taking something from WoW and putting it into FFXIV?

What if you never really NEEDED to go back to your home point? ie: there would be nearby camps offering basic services like auction house, job change, and transportation in most zones. For the more 'extreme' areas, maybe there wouldn't be a camp to use, and in these endgame areas you WOULD have to have some sort of scroll of warp or a member who could teleport you / warp you. Chances are you wouldn't be going into these areas alone or without a stockpile of items.

And make warp and teleport a low level (like level 5 spell with minimal mp cost) easily learned by the most basic magic users. Make the spell castable on non party members (with the option to accept or reject the spell). That way all you would have to do is poke the guy next to you and perhaps offer a little gil to get a warp.

Just any idea that would lend more immersion in the gameplay/gameworld than the magical hearthstone.
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#37 Jun 30 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Litie wrote:
This is how I see it...

Having something like a hearthstone on a reasonable timer (hourish) does nothing to take away from the game. I see no point in making a player waste time walking (or riding) back through several zones just for the sake of getting to a town. (Especially since they walked/rode to their spot already) It does not add any challenge to the game, it just makes it a bit annoying.


My thoughts exactly, and I think based on that the idea of having to pay for the option to return to your homepoint quickly once/hour is unnecessary. You're trading one time sink for another. Consider the current FFXI examples:

Warp Scroll: Costs CP. If you don't have the CP (or are saving your CP for an upgrade), you're out of luck. Even if you aren't saving your CP for a specific upgrade, CP items could often sell on auction for a reasonable amount of gil. It's a backhanded benefit.

Warp Cudgel: Gil. How long would it take you to farm to earn enough to buy a warp cudgel? Subtract that from the total travel time saved by using all of the charges on the cudgel. Depending on economy, it can quickly trivialize the "time saving" benefit. The time sink is just being shifted around.
#38 Jun 30 2009 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
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Im so sick of the time saving agruement that comes up in every thread. I am aware that many people don't have much time and things like that, I don't either (college, work, gf, etc), but give me a break with everything saving time. How about they just make every zone have 1 floor and straight forward so we don't waste time with useless navigation (sarcasm). I mean come on, I wouldn't mind if after you got off a chocobo he stayed instead of running into the sunset (for maybe a time limit he stays), or there were other ways to cut down travel time slighty, but all this instant stuff erks me. You are playing a game, get ready to use some time to do things its as simple as that. I can understand some shortcuts along the way, but come on. Anyway this is just my opinion, i'm sure a lot of people love the instance thing, so I can only hope, just like you can only hope, that the game turns out a certain way.
#39 Jun 30 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Are you trying to say that people suggesting ideas from WoW haven't been just as aggressive or nasty?


As aggressive or nasty as this?

FFXIBrenno wrote:
FFXIV should change their travel system by adding mounts, not like where u pay before exiting a city but mounts that you can just summon and go places.


Kirbster wrote:
HAY COOL AND WE CAN ADD THIS PLACE CALLED THE UNDERCITY WHERE ALL THE UNDEAD LIVE AND MAYBE ZEPPLINS



Nope. Your posts are as much of the problem on these threads as anyone's.
#40 Jun 30 2009 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't see the big deal about people talking sh*t about wow anyway. Last time I checked they were like at what 11 million subscribers, FFXI just recently celebrated 2 million or so. I do enjoy playing both of these games, so someone saying having features too similar to another game is a bit silly. Most MMO's are going to have some aspects in common. We start out walking right? Eventually we get access to faster travel? We wear weapon and armor that enhances our "stats". What separates the features is the implementation.

What i'm getting at is an ability that limits where your "home point" is located. An active ability that takes an hour to reuse, takes you back to your home in the city in which you started, or however they end up doing that system. Even if you are staying somewhere, or your home point is somewhere far off. It takes you back to your home town and you gotta figure out someway to get where else you're going. It could be convenient or not depends on how it is used.
#41 Jun 30 2009 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
Im so sick of the time saving agruement that comes up in every thread. I am aware that many people don't have much time and things like that, I don't either (college, work, gf, etc), but give me a break with everything saving time. How about they just make every zone have 1 floor and straight forward so we don't waste time with useless navigation (sarcasm). I mean come on, I wouldn't mind if after you got off a chocobo he stayed instead of running into the sunset (for maybe a time limit he stays), or there were other ways to cut down travel time slighty, but all this instant stuff erks me. You are playing a game, get ready to use some time to do things its as simple as that. I can understand some shortcuts along the way, but come on. Anyway this is just my opinion, i'm sure a lot of people love the instance thing, so I can only hope, just like you can only hope, that the game turns out a certain way.


I'm more than willing to do things that take time in an MMO. There are times when I'll happily grind for hours on the same content for the purpose of meeting a certain goal. There are times when I'm perfectly happy to just head out into the world and tool around for a while with no particular goal in mind. And then there are times...the majority of times, actually...where I have a particular purpose in mind that requires me to be somewhere, and my experience is in no way enhanced by having to take <x> amount of time to get there and <x> amount of time to get back. MMOs are all about massive worlds to explore and adventure in, and that's awesome. I love it. I love the concept. I don't always find that having an extra 15-30 minutes of my playtime required to account for travel back to a population hub at the end of a session to unload/whatever is creating any sort of entertainment value for me. Time sinks that don't contribute to entertainment value are bad design. If you personally enjoy the trip back to wherever at the end of your time doing whatever, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from making that trip the "long" way.

I guarantee you that if FFXIV were to implement a no-cost homepoint return feature on a reasonable cooldown (ie. 1hr), nobody would complain that they didn't have to pay for every use.
#42 Jun 30 2009 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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HocusP wrote:
Im so sick of the time saving agruement that comes up in every thread. I am aware that many people don't have much time and things like that, I don't either (college, work, gf, etc), but give me a break with everything saving time. How about they just make every zone have 1 floor and straight forward so we don't waste time with useless navigation (sarcasm). I mean come on, I wouldn't mind if after you got off a chocobo he stayed instead of running into the sunset (for maybe a time limit he stays), or there were other ways to cut down travel time slighty, but all this instant stuff erks me. You are playing a game, get ready to use some time to do things its as simple as that. I can understand some shortcuts along the way, but come on. Anyway this is just my opinion, i'm sure a lot of people love the instance thing, so I can only hope, just like you can only hope, that the game turns out a certain way.


{That's too bad}

If I were designing the game, and I were using the grid system that has been mentioned as a possibility, I'd make an optional sphere open up relatively early in the game that would allow the player to warp to the nearest town. I'd make another one quite a bit further into the game that would allow the player to warp to any town previously visited. I'd see no reason to put a cooldown on this spell.

It's not like WoW, it has a link to past FF games, and it doesn't require wasting in-game money/points/whatever to give you something that's standard in modern MMOs.
#43 Jun 30 2009 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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To me it is not a timesink, if you can do something so minimum to avoid it (spell,warp scroll, items, rare/ex rings,death warp, etc). The MMO doesn't have to include everything "standard mmos have", this is why they are making there own mmo. So they can put in what they want to, not be bound by what "standard mmos have", to my knowledge, standard mmos have PvP more invovled, and SE is not bound to have that, just because "standard mmos have it".
#44 Jun 30 2009 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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HocusP wrote:
To me it is not a timesink, if you can do something so minimum to avoid it (spell,warp scroll, items, rare/ex rings,death warp, etc). The MMO doesn't have to include everything "standard mmos have", this is why they are making there own mmo. So they can put in what they want to, not be bound by what "standard mmos have", to my knowledge, standard mmos have PvP more invovled, and SE is not bound to have that, just because "standard mmos have it".


Ya, but not doing it specifically so they can say that they didn't follow the crowd is a pretty weak reason considering the benefits it brings in terms of a happier playerbase. Non-conformism strictly for the sake of non-conformism is lame. If you're going to break away from the current standard, there would ideally be a good reason for it. "We're sticking with our tried-and-true time sink philosophy because we're the only ones still doing it and players will appreciate us for it" isn't likely to fly.
#45 Jun 30 2009 at 4:26 PM Rating: Default
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A Lv 1 ability to warp to one specific town would be nice, especially if you had any issues getting stuck. But I wouldn't want the name Hearthstone.
#46 Jun 30 2009 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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HocusP wrote:
To me it is not a timesink, if you can do something so minimum to avoid it (spell,warp scroll, items, rare/ex rings,death warp, etc). The MMO doesn't have to include everything "standard mmos have", this is why they are making there own mmo. So they can put in what they want to, not be bound by what "standard mmos have", to my knowledge, standard mmos have PvP more invovled, and SE is not bound to have that, just because "standard mmos have it".


I know. I just gave an example of a new way of cutting back on ridiculous walking times that serve no purpose after the first or second time you do it.

You listed some things that are in FFXI. I'm not sure what the point of that was. I was trying to come up with ideas that make this a new game, not FFXI: The Sequel. If you're concerned about my idea being "free", it's not - it would cost you a point on the skill grid.

The more I think about it, the more I believe a skill grid would be an amazing way to shake up the traditional leveling system in an MMO, and I really hope this is something S-E uses in XIV.


#47 Jun 30 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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SEforPrez wrote:
Quote:
Are you trying to say that people suggesting ideas from WoW haven't been just as aggressive or nasty?


As aggressive or nasty as this?

FFXIBrenno wrote:
FFXIV should change their travel system by adding mounts, not like where u pay before exiting a city but mounts that you can just summon and go places.


Kirbster wrote:
HAY COOL AND WE CAN ADD THIS PLACE CALLED THE UNDERCITY WHERE ALL THE UNDEAD LIVE AND MAYBE ZEPPLINS



Nope. Your posts are as much of the problem on these threads as anyone's.


Kirbster actually wrote:
HAY COOL AND WE CAN ADD THIS PLACE CALLED THE UNDERCITY WHERE ALL THE UNDEAD LIVE AND MAYBE ZEPPLINS

I apologize for the sarcasm but this kind of crap is really getting on my nerves. If you're going to suggest something, at least elaborate on how you think it should be done.


If you're going to try and defame me, try to not intentionally cut out parts of my posts in an old thread. If you actually read my posts in that thread it's clear that I'm frustrated with the lack of creativity, not specifically the fact that it was from WoW:

Kirbster wrote:
If the OP had come up with something like a way to create a form of Chocobo breeding that could replace renting chocobos once and for all, and function like mounts like WoW, I would have been all ears.


Even so, it was a harsh reaction and I've been trying to be nicer of late.


Anyway, back to the actual thread, I think a (re)questable Warp item with a set amount of charges would be fine, as long as there's a respectable cooldown on it.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 6:51pm by Kirbster
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#48 Jun 30 2009 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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the Warp Cudgel would of been a lot more effective if not for the redic cooldown time. An item similar with a cooldown in the range of 1-2hrs would be amazing.

These items may be irrelevant in FFXIV, though. Depending on how prevalent other built in travel systems are, the ability to warp to home may be a moot one.
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#49 Jun 30 2009 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I think various consumable items with various bind points would be interesting. You could have like a scroll of warp that sent you to your homepoint, another scroll that sent you to your actual home of origin, another one to send you to the closest AH, closest mog house, closest city...I think it makes sense.
#50 Jun 30 2009 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:
If you're going to try and defame me, try to not intentionally cut out parts of my posts in an old thread. If you actually read my posts in that thread it's clear that I'm frustrated with the lack of creativity, not specifically the fact that it was from WoW.


Not trying to defame you man, just think that you seem so defensive that you're seeing "enemies" (for lack of a better word) where none exist. That guy in the other thread was a 15-post newbie with FFXI in his username.

Everyone here wants to see a cool Final Fantasy online game. Sure, different people have different ideas about what that game should look like, and everybody has different things they liked and disliked about XI, but I've not seen anyone from either FFXI or WoW posting in these threads just to troll.

I've got absolutely nothing against you, and I've apologized once for coming across kind of strong in a previous reply to you, so again, I'm not trying to defame you. You just seem to be a little more on edge than most about features from other MMOs finding their way into XIV, that's all.

Back on topic, yeah, a repeatable quest to recharge a warp-type item would be cool too, or a repeatable quest to just get a new item. Hopefully it would be a quest that would be as fun the fiftieth time as the first, though, or it would get old. Heck, even a synth from low-level drops would give newbies some starting money.
#51 Jun 30 2009 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If you're concerned about my idea being "free", it's not - it would cost you a point on the skill grid.


That's fine, because then you'll still want/need the same alternatives that are in ffxi. It's really not hard to just have warp items handy, in fact it takes almost no effort at all.

We just don't want the equivalent of the heartstone.
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