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#52 Jun 30 2009 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
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If you want to keep the "hearthstone" balanced (i.e. preserve the feeling of vastness to the world but still make it convenient) then another option may be to put it firstly on a timer, and then secondly make it like a "flight path" directly from your current position to your homing point/mog house.

That is, your body/spirit "fly" across the sky quicker than airship/chocobo, but it still takes you time to do it, so you can't abuse the free system (because it would take you longer than getting an instant warp item.
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#53 Jun 30 2009 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
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If you're concerned about my idea being "free", it's not - it would cost you a point on the skill grid.


That's fine, because then you'll still want/need the same alternatives that are in ffxi. It's really not hard to just have warp items handy, in fact it takes almost no effort at all.

We just don't want the equivalent of the heartstone.


How about a free warp item with a 1hr cooldown, and the equivalent to warp scrolls and cudgels as well. That way, the people who take offense at the idea of a free homepoint trip every hour can still pay for the privilege, and those of us who aren't so keen on paying for basic functionality have our little freebie. Oh, and they share the same cooldown, so if you use one of the warp items...regardless of which one...the other two were also unavailable for the next hour ;D How many people would continue to pay for the old-school stuff as opposed to using the free one? Would you? Just on principle. I mean, it's one thing to talk that talk about how "we" don't want to see something made more accessible/convenient, but when push came to shove, would you walk the walk?

Do you think the post-release ZAM FFXIV forums would include commentary from the majority about how they wished SE would get rid of the free option, or do you think comments would be more along the lines of, "LOL! Why would I pay for something when it would allow me to do the same thing as an item/ability I have that costs me nothing to use?"

Because if your answer is anything other than the equivalent of, "Yes, I would most definitely use the pay items instead of the free one," this "we want" crap is nothing but a bunch of double talkin' jive. Turkey.
#54 Jun 30 2009 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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if u left town w/o a warp scroll thats ur own fault, you should always have a warp scroll on you. its cheap, and it does the job.
if u can't afford it nuts to u, get more conquest or IS points. i ALWAYS had enough to get a warp scroll. theres no excuse for not having one.


I'm a new player to XI. I'm currently a level 15 WM. I'd love to have a way to warp back to my home point every few hours. I guess my excuse for not having a warp scroll is that I can't. I don't have any coquest points to spend. I'm glad that you do, but that doesn't mean everyone does.

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warping should cost u something. fast travel should never be free, u gota earn the right to use it. handing it out left and right like free balloons sounds stupid. weither u gota run to warp areas, have to pay for it, or work ur *** off to get that spell u should ALWAYS have to earn it.



Why? What you're basically saying is "I've been playing the game longer, so I should get a special benefit that lets me bypass some of the horrible time sink. But no one else should get that benefit unless they've already suffered through that time sink". But the problem here is that the horrible time sink is not fun. It sucks. It drives people away from the game. I've seen people try to justify that by saying that hardcore players will always stick around, or that the long travel times make the world feel bigger. But if being hardcore means I spend half my game time on autorun, I totally don't want to be hardcore. And while I do love the bigger world, I also want to be able to choose whether I want to take my time running through it or skip to the content I am interested in.

Time sinks are not fun. They're not. I really, really hope that SE learned this with XI and will either get rid of them altogether in XIV or find ways to mitigate them.
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#55 Jun 30 2009 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Riav wrote:
Being able to transport to a certain point too often will make the game world feel considerably smaller, which we don't want. That was one of the things I liked about FFXI, the world felt giant. Adding too many things like flight paths and ways to instantly transport across the world will inevitably make it feel smaller than it is.


Agreed. As much of a pain in the rear as it is to hoof it everywhere, I sorta prefer it that way.

Also, the fast-transport options in FFXI seem to have a good curve to them. You start out with next-to-none and gradually more options open up as you progress through the game. By the time you hit L40 or so, you can have a pretty wide range of transport and destinations available. Relatedly, I also like that most of the travel options in FFXI have to be earned in some way: Outpost deliveries, quest rewards, Rank rewards, etc. You can't just talk to Billy-bob the Stablemaster and teleport wherever you please.
#56 Jun 30 2009 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm gonna simply say no to instant free lvl 1 low downtime warp.
if they introduce it in the game, it should be at max lvl.
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#57 Jun 30 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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Because if your answer is anything other than the equivalent of, "Yes, I would most definitely use the pay items instead of the free one," this "we want" crap is nothing but a bunch of double talkin' jive. Turkey.


High five!

I'm really of the opinion that the people who say faster travel will ruin the game or make the world seem smaller can keep walking. There's no reason to deny the option of fast travel to the rest of us just because they don't want it. But maybe there could be a benefit to foot travel? Something that makes the time investment worthwhile and would make it an attractive alternative to faster travel? Like a combat or stamina bonus that gets larger the longer you run, and lasts for X amount of time once you reach your destination? Or rewards for character that have traveled 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200 or 500 miles in game? Or traveling npc merchants and quest givers that only appear on roads? Or delivery missions between locations that can only be accomplished on foot?

Give me a reason to run. Make it worth me while.

Edited, Jun 30th 2009 11:05pm by keelut
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#58 Jun 30 2009 at 7:14 PM Rating: Default
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If you want to keep the "hearthstone" balanced (i.e. preserve the feeling of vastness to the world but still make it convenient) then another option may be to put it firstly on a timer, and then secondly make it like a "flight path" directly from your current position to your homing point/mog house.

That is, your body/spirit "fly" across the sky quicker than airship/chocobo, but it still takes you time to do it, so you can't abuse the free system (because it would take you longer than getting an instant warp item.


No, never. Just no. I hope you die in a fire.

...No.
(No means no)
#59 Jun 30 2009 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

How about a free warp item with a 1hr cooldown, and the equivalent to warp scrolls and cudgels as well. That way, the people who take offense at the idea of a free homepoint trip every hour can still pay for the privilege, and those of us who aren't so keen on paying for basic functionality have our little freebie. Oh, and they share the same cooldown, so if you use one of the warp items...regardless of which one...the other two were also unavailable for the next hour ;D How many people would continue to pay for the old-school stuff as opposed to using the free one? Would you? Just on principle. I mean, it's one thing to talk that talk about how "we" don't want to see something made more accessible/convenient, but when push came to shove, would you walk the walk?


If there was an easy way implemented, of course i'm going to take it, i'm not just going to do stuff the hard and longer way while people do stuff the easy and free way. I mean lets be real here, if its in the game then everybody is going to use it. When i'm playing a single player game, i'm going to put the difficult on hard, but if you turn that single player game into an mmo, i'm not going stay on hard difficult, while everybody else is playing on easy. I like exp grind (had five 75 jobs), but if theres 2 options, exp grind or a easier route, of course i'm going to take the easier route like everybody else. I don't believe in putting myself in a handicap just to make a point, but I do believe in harder games that everybody has to follow the same rules and boundaries.

When people say "make the playerbase happy, this is usually true to a fault in my opinion. I mean people may not admit it, but the playerbase would rather have an easy game then a hard game (just common fact). I don't mean just people on here (on here is usually for less time consuming), but I really mean playerbase as a whole. I mean its just human nature, many people won't admit it but they would rather stuff come easier then stuff come harder. Just one example, I bet more people get a new game and would play on easy (or try hard, die twice and go straight to easy). Its human nature to shy away from harder things, especially in a bad time (like when it doesn't seem like your succeeding, as in you die on the way home or something), its just human nature. So "making the fanbase happy" doesn't always mean its a great idea, it just means its easier and free. I bet you never hear "I wish that test was harder", but you always hear complaints if the test is hard "why wasn't the test easier".

My rant kind of went off topic a little bit, but the main point was, anything being easy and free would make the playerbase happy. Some people will say, this is not true and they don't think that way (which they probally don't), but its just human fact people would rather stuff be easier and free, than harder and expensive. Things like 100% drop rates, and other stuff would make the "playerbase happy", its just the truth. It might not make you happy, but it will make the "playerbase happy", if you believe it or not. Rare items 100% drop would make the "playerbase happy", I mean its just a fact. You can't always do everything that will make the "playerbase happy".
#60 Jun 30 2009 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
If you're concerned about my idea being "free", it's not - it would cost you a point on the skill grid.


That's fine, because then you'll still want/need the same alternatives that are in ffxi. It's really not hard to just have warp items handy, in fact it takes almost no effort at all.

We just don't want the equivalent of the heartstone.


The only difference between a warp cudgel in ffxi and a hearthstone is your hearthstone doesn't DIE, a warp cudgel runs out of warps eventually. And all that does is force you to buy a new one. THey already dirt cheap, so why bother forcing the user to get a warp cudgel all the time? Infact I found it annoying to mess with.
Honestly, the warp cudgel is already the equivalent of a hearthstone, its just the warp cudgel is a crappy hearthstone that someone broke on the side walk.

Really i think you should be able to warp back any time you want. The Hearthstone had limits, only every hour. So I say they make something that warps you any time. Kinda like the warp spell but only for everyone. I mean really, why not? It only saves time and makes the game more enjoyable, You can already warp any where and anytime you want if you have the right amount of warp cudgels and warp items on you. Lets make it not so annoying so its simple and easy to use.

And sure its not hard to have warp items handy, but why keep the status quo? This is a sequel were talking about. Why not make it simplier, easier to use and not an inventory space hogger. Why do people feel so insistent on punishing the user? Getting the warp items doesnt take work, so you can't argue its not fair.
#61 Jun 30 2009 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm a new player to XI. I'm currently a level 15 WM. I'd love to have a way to warp back to my home point every few hours. I guess my excuse for not having a warp scroll is that I can't. I don't have any coquest points to spend. I'm glad that you do, but that doesn't mean everyone does.


last time i checked 750 CP wasn't hard to get. soloing from lvl 1-10 nets u around 1k conquest points.
an hour of killing mobs in the dunes nets u another 1k conquest points. trading in crystals at the guard nets u some more conquest points. doing supply runs nets u more conquest points. taking part in besieged nets u IS points, taking part in campaign battles (stand in a corner casting cure on others) nets u allied tags, **** even finding the "suspicious object" gives u allied notes. don't give me that whole "im a noob" and don't no how to collect enough CP for a warp scroll. theres tons of ways to get them, some easier then others, and some require more work. as long as u have ur sigil/signet/allied tags on u get points. its one of the first things they teach you when u enter FF11.

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Why? What you're basically saying is "I've been playing the game longer, so I should get a special benefit that lets me bypass some of the horrible time sink. But no one else should get that benefit unless they've already suffered through that time sink".


YES thats exactly what im saying.

btw news flash FF11 does that already. the more effort u put into getting rank ups the faster u get the airship pass. the more time u spend running to Outpost the more outpost warps u have access to. doing the 5 hour chocobo quest nets u the chocobo pass. getting all the subjob items + doing the wildcats quests + the first ride to whitegate nets u easy access to whitegate from all home nations and back. going to all the past regions and getting ur rec letter along with doing the first couple missions nets u easy access to the past warp. running to all the staging points (which is next to impossible for a low lvled char) nets u easy access to all the staging points. if u don't spend that inital time getting there then u don't have access to the easy way out.

Quote:
But the problem here is that the horrible time sink is not fun. It sucks. It drives people away from the game. I've seen people try to justify that by saying that hardcore players will always stick around, or that the long travel times make the world feel bigger. But if being hardcore means I spend half my game time on autorun, I totally don't want to be hardcore. And while I do love the bigger world, I also want to be able to choose whether I want to take my time running through it or skip to the content I am interested in.

Time sinks are not fun. They're not. I really, really hope that SE learned this with XI and will either get rid of them altogether in XIV or find ways to mitigate them.


i agree with you here. it takes way to long to get there at first but how come ur not complaing about the airship pass then? or chocobos? at lvl 15 u get nothing but ur 2 feet and warp scrolls. rank 5 is hard to get unless u got help or a high lvl charater, chocobos require gil unless u can farm the quest mats. u have to walk to every OP to get OP warps. you have to ride a 45?min boat ride to get to whitegate and thats not even including the quest u have to do to get access to it. you have to ride a 30 min boat ride to get from selbina to mhaura.

the POINT of all this is that giving someone access to free instant warps from the get go DOES NOT help remove the time sink if SE keeps everything else the same. you still have to get that chocobo licence at lvl 20. you still have to reach rank 5. you still have to do all those supply runs. you still have to get those staging points. unstead of adding a free instant warp back to HP y not suggest something more usefull like reduced airship times? more OP? ealier access to chocobos? shorter boat rides?

now u get how stupid this suggestion is? just because u have a free pass back to HP doesn't mean its going to cut travel time. as long as these systems are in place u can ALWAYS expect 30min travel times no matter what method you choose to use. instead of suggesting a more convient warp to hp item u should be suggesting a more convient way of travel.

Edited, Jul 1st 2009 12:39am by Leyego
#62 Jun 30 2009 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
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keelut wrote:
But maybe there could be a benefit to foot travel? Something that makes the time investment worthwhile and would make it an attractive alternative to faster travel? Like a combat or stamina bonus that gets larger the longer you run, and lasts for X amount of time once you reach your destination? Or rewards for character that have traveled 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200 or 500 miles in game? Or traveling npc merchants and quest givers that only appear on roads? Or delivery missions between locations that can only be accomplished on foot?

Give me a reason to run. Make it worth me while.


I wouldn't mind a system like this. As long as the rewards were recurring, you'd always have some incentive to go on foot. Something similar to Signet's effects would work well, I think.
#63 Jun 30 2009 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

how come ur not complaing about the airship pass then? or chocobos? at lvl 15 u get nothing but ur 2 feet and warp scrolls. rank 5 is hard to get unless u got help or a high lvl charater, chocobos require gil unless u can farm the quest mats. u have to walk to every OP to get OP warps. you have to ride a 45?min boat ride to get to whitegate and thats not even including the quest u have to do to get access to it. you have to ride a 30 min boat ride to get from selbina to mhaura.

the POINT of all this is that giving someone access to free instant warps from the get go DOES NOT help remove the time sink if SE keeps everything else the same. you still have to get that chocobo licence at lvl 20. you still have to reach rank 5. you still have to do all those supply runs. you still have to get those staging points. unstead of adding a free instant warp back to HP y not suggest something better like reduced airship times? more OP? ealier access to chocobos? shorter boat rides?

now u get how stupid this suggestion is? just because u have a free pass back to HP doesn't mean its going to cut travel time. as long as these systems are in place u can ALWAYS expect 30min travel times no matter what method you choose to use. instead of suggesting a more convient warp to hp item u should be suggesting a more convient way of travel.


Well, as a new player I have no idea about any of this stuff, right? Air ships? 45 minute boat rides? Rank 5? Conquest? No idea. Being a new player means I've never played before. I don't know about this stuff. What I do know is that at level 15 travel sucks. I don't think suggesting more convenient travel options for the new game (not this one) is stupid. What I do think is pretty foolish is your assertion that because travel is always time consuming in the game at all levels it should remain time consuming in the new game and that there shouldn't be any universal options to mitigate this.

Quote:
last time i checked 750 CP wasn't hard to get. soloing from lvl 1-10 nets u around 1k conquest points.
an hour of killing mobs in the dunes nets u another 1k conquest points. trading in crystals at the guard nets u some more conquest points. doing supply runs nets u more conquest points. taking part in besieged nets u IS points, taking part in campaign battles (stand in a corner casting cure on others) nets u allied tags, **** even finding the "suspicious object" gives u allied notes. don't give me that whole "im a noob" and don't no how to collect enough CP for a warp scroll. theres tons of ways to get them, some easier then others, and some require more work. as long as u have ur sigil/signet/allied tags on u get points. its one of the first things they teach you when u enter FF11.


Well, thanks for letting me know. Like I said, I'm new to XI. I don't know any of this stuff. I am "a noob" and I don't know how to collect enough CP for a warp scroll. Or where to get one for that matter. But thanks for being so helpful, and especially so polite.
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#64 Jun 30 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Depends on the person, I guess. I loved running around as a level 15, even if I was relieved to get my chocobo license at 20.

Although if you're new I'd suggest doing an outpost warp run to Valkurm Dunes should your nation hold the region. Much faster travel. Actually, just do all the outpost warp quests you can.
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#65 Jun 30 2009 at 9:02 PM Rating: Default
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Just an observation: but perhaps the reason so many people are saying they don't want FFXIV to be another WOW clone (Lotronline, WAR, AoC, etc, etc) is because of post such as 'Hearthstone' followed by 'Yes we need this in any MMO' or 'I guarantee you if this was in place in FFXIV nobody would complain'.

This is a thread that was started by wanting a mechanic of WoW implanted into FFXIV with no modification or thought placed behind it. Just 'Hearthstone.. FFXIV should have it'/

Might as well have said 'Gold.. FFXIV should have it' or 'Gnomes... FFXIV should have it', or even 'Mounts... FFXIV should have it' (wait.. I think that thread already exists)

So who is going to argue for gnomes being a playable class? Someone is going to post it eventually. You know it is going to happen.
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#66 Jun 30 2009 at 9:17 PM Rating: Default
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Well, as a new player I have no idea about any of this stuff, right? Air ships? 45 minute boat rides? Rank 5? Conquest? No idea. Being a new player means I've never played before. I don't know about this stuff. What I do know is that at level 15 travel sucks. I don't think suggesting more convenient travel options for the new game (not this one) is stupid. What I do think is pretty foolish is your assertion that because travel is always time consuming in the game at all levels it should remain time consuming in the new game and that there shouldn't be any universal options to mitigate this


this thread doesn't suggest a more convenient travel option. making warp from out in the field to your HP free isn't a big deal if it takes u over an hour to get to where u want to go. 9 times outa 10 once u get to your desired camp spot theres a town in the next map or an easier CHEAPER way back to your home nation or HP.

ill give u an example lets say ur starting out in bastok and u need to get to the dunes to level up. u grab a supplies quest from the dude who gives u signet and u start walking there (ud no about supply quests and out post warping if u read a little and talk to the npcs. it is a FF game after all and being to lazy to talk to an npc screws u over). it takes u an hour to get there but once u get there assuming u don't die on the way to the OP u now have easy access to the dunes from bastok and vice vera. if u do die u just lost an hour of game time and now u gota do it again.
getting there is THE PROBLEM its a huge time sink and needs to go. getting back takes u little over 2 mins and its cheaper then buying a warp scroll. a free inv warp shaves 2 mins of ur play time. whats the point in that if ur already spending an hour to get to the dunes?

did that example help explain what i mean? free warps shaves 2-5 mins off your time. whats 2 mins compaired to an hour or an hour and a half?

ill give u another example.
you finally hit lvl 20 and no one invites u to dunes parties any more. your next level up area is qufim island. good luck getting past lvl 30-40 agro mobs which will slaughter u in 4-5 hits if ur not careful while getting to jeuno. assuming u get past all the agro on your first try and make it to jeuno u notice that u forget to get the supplies quest to qufim island. now u got 3 options. save at jeuno and walk all the way back to bastok grab the supplies quest then warp back to jeuno using a the free warp item then turning in the supplies quest at qufim. or u can use ur warp item go back to bastok then run all the way back to jeuno. or u can say ***** it and prolong the ordeal.

do u finally see what im getting at?
travelling from x to y takes to long and need to be addressed in FF14. free warps are a luxary and are not needed.
#67 Jun 30 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Depends on the person, I guess. I loved running around as a level 15, even if I was relieved to get my chocobo license at 20.

Although if you're new I'd suggest doing an outpost warp run to Valkurm Dunes should your nation hold the region. Much faster travel. Actually, just do all the outpost warp quests you can.


Thanks. I'm learning to take advantage of the Outposts. The one time I've been out to Valkrum Dunes Windurst wasn't in control, so I couldn't do anything I guess.

I like running around a lot actually. I'm spending as much time exploring as I am fighting monsters. But when I need to head home I have to ask myself why the game requires me to make the run. Or even the run to the nearest outpost. Does it make the game more fun to have to spend time running back home? Is there a mechanical reason for instant access to my home to not be available? I think the answer to both of these is no. Exploring the world is really important. But once you've explored, traversing huge distances serves little purpose except to create a time sink. Time sinks don't make games harder or more challenging, despite what has been said earlier in this thread. Time sinks just keep players from enjoying the rest of the game. I know some of you like various time sinks. I guess I do as well, since I very much like exploring. But those should be optional, not intrinsic parts of the game. They're the artifacts of outdated and straight out poor design philosophies. If SE is building a new game from the ground up I really hope they'll do their best to eliminate or limit as many time sinks as possible.This would be (for me) mindless grinding and needless travel. And the neat thing is that they don't actually have to get rid of either of those, just make them interesting, engaging and worthwhile activities.

Quote:
This is a thread that was started by wanting a mechanic of WoW implanted into FFXIV with no modification or thought placed behind it. Just 'Hearthstone.. FFXIV should have it'/


The reactions have been interesting. A lot of people said yes, right? And a lot of people took offense to the idea (some only for it's association to WoW it seems). The best argument against it that I can see here is that something similar already exists. The big difference (I think) is that the similar items in XI are similar in function but not availability. I think the appeal of the Hearthstone is it's availability and utility. It's available to us from the very beginning of the game, costs nothing and has a reasonable cool down. Is your objection here only based on the way the idea was presented? I can't tell if your pointing out your own bias or the bias of others on this forum, but I think you are right on the nose that a lot of people are objecting to this idea (and others) simply because someone said "WoW has it, so maybe FFXIV should as well". But when it comes down to that's a pretty lame reason to dismiss the idea, argue against it or be offended by it.
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#68 Jun 30 2009 at 9:55 PM Rating: Default
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now that comment deserves a rate up.

the concept of a hearthstone works for many MMO's (ro comes to mind althought its a bit different) that have a noob towns along with 1 or a couple "main" towns where everyone gather to talk, trade and party.

i myself don't care if the concept comes from another MMO, its always a battle of who can do it better. the concept just applies better to specific types of mmo's while it just doesn't work for others.

in this case a hearthstone should be the last thing on our minds. the first being reducing travel times from one main hub to another. who wants to spend 30 mins (having access to all forms of travel) or 3 hours (having access to no forms of travel) just so u can get to that other town just so u can upgrade your wood working rank?
#69 Jun 30 2009 at 10:13 PM Rating: Decent
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do u finally see what im getting at?
travelling from x to y takes to long and need to be addressed in FF14. free warps are a luxary and are not needed


Quote:
in this case a hearthstone should be the last thing on our minds. the first being reducing travel times from one main hub to another. who wants to spend 30 mins (having access to all forms of travel) or 3 hours (having access to no forms of travel) just so u can get to that other town just so u can upgrade your wood working rank?


No, you're right. Decreased travel time is the key here. I was focusing on the Hearthstone idea because that's what the thread is about, but decreased travel time does make the instant return home option less of a must have. Maybe I'm keen on the idea of the Hearthstone because it's one of the few ideas from WoW that I truly like. The convenience of being able to return home from anywhere instantly without having to count on another party member for a warp or run through a potentially dangerous area to get to a town or outpost was really, really nice. I didn't realize how much I liked it until I started playing XI and wished I had it.

Maybe it's not worth arguing about, but I know the first thing I want out of XIV is an easy to use, fast and reliable travel system. I think some kind of Hearthstone type thing could easily be part of that.
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#70 Jun 30 2009 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
Just an observation: but perhaps the reason so many people are saying they don't want FFXIV to be another WOW clone (Lotronline, WAR, AoC, etc, etc) is because of post such as 'Hearthstone' followed by 'Yes we need this in any MMO' or 'I guarantee you if this was in place in FFXIV nobody would complain'.


Again...what does it matter where the idea came from? Are you that thick that you can't set aside the source and consider the merits of an idea on their own? What is this compulsion people have to immediately reject an idea simply because it came from an MMO other than FFXI? I don't think I'll ever understand that.

Quote:
This is a thread that was started by wanting a mechanic of WoW implanted into FFXIV with no modification or thought placed behind it. Just 'Hearthstone.. FFXIV should have it'/


Maybe that's how you read it. I didn't read it as a direct implant from WoW. I read it as an example of a concept.
#71 Jun 30 2009 at 11:02 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I think you are right on the nose that a lot of people are objecting to this idea (and others) simply because someone said "WoW has it, so maybe FFXIV should as well". But when it comes down to that's a pretty lame reason to dismiss the idea, argue against it or be offended by it.


My objection is not that WoW has it, my objection is that it is a fix that doesn't really address the real problem players have.

I think it is just laziness on the part of the speculators to simply take an aspect of WoW and put it into FFXIV, and if the developers of FFXIV just decided to fix all their gameplay problems by taking notes from WoW we would end up with yet another game that would be WoW-like, but inferior to the original product.

My first post in this thread offered many other ways the whole 'home point' problem could be resolved, but I find very few speculative and original theories on how to solve the issue... and many 'Let's just copy WoW' or 'No, I hate WoW' posts here.

How about something that solves the problem without just pandering to the lowest common denominator? That is the real problem I have had playing WoW.

So instead of a magic Jesus button (the hearthstone), how about another solution?
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#72 Jun 30 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
So instead of a magic Jesus button (the hearthstone), how about another solution?


Why reinvent the wheel? An item or ability on a (relatively) lengthy cooldown that gives you rapid travel to your homepoint is not a concept exclusive to WoW. FFXI implemented it before WoW did. The main difference is that FFXI tacked another resource sink onto it (time and/or gil and/or CP) whereas every other MMO I can think of since then has made it free and accessible very early in the game, if not as part of your standard "new character" kit.
#73 Jun 30 2009 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Why reinvent the wheel?


Why make a new MMO?

If SE isn't reinventing the wheel here, why should I play their game? I got my WoW and FFXI account.
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#74 Jun 30 2009 at 11:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
My objection is not that WoW has it, my objection is that it is a fix that doesn't really address the real problem players have.


The hearthstone concept may not address all the problems surrounding long travel times, but it's still a valid idea. And this thread was set up to talk about the validity of the concept in the new game. Whether or not it solves the problems of the old game is a valid question, but not the only one. The concept is worth considering for it's own merits.

Quote:

So instead of a magic Jesus button (the hearthstone), how about another solution?


How about it? I had made some suggestions for making foot travel more interesting and worthwhile. There were some other suggestions as well. But again, that's not really what the thread is about, is it? And I still haven't heard a good reason for not implementing this idea in the new game. What I have heard is a lot of people saying that it won't solve the problems of the old game. That's besides the point. It can be worthwhile on it's own as an idea without acting as a fix for existing problems.

That being said, I can't see how it couldn't go a long way to helping solve the travel problems that I gather are common in XI. Assuming that travel will be revamped from the ground up (which is maybe a dangerous assumption), I can see how a one way teleport home on a timer would be incredibly useful.
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#75 Jun 30 2009 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
Quote:
Why reinvent the wheel?


Why make a new MMO?

If SE isn't reinventing the wheel here, why should I play their game? I got my WoW and FFXI account.


SE has already said they aren't looking to revolutionize the MMO genre. Not everything in the game has to be new. With all of the truly interesting things the development team could be focusing their time on, why should any significant amount of thought be given to a relatively minor detail like a homepoint warp? Development budgets, staff, and schedules aren't unlimited. I'd rather see them invest as much time as possible into character development, zone development, combat mechanics and refined, robust content than waste time ******* around with a "new" way to handle a simple function.
#76 Jun 30 2009 at 11:38 PM Rating: Default
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If travel mechanisms in a MMO are insignificant, then why do we even have people complaining about them?
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#77 Jun 30 2009 at 11:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
If travel mechanisms in a MMO are insignificant, then why do we even have people complaining about them?


Will you quit being so argumentative and purposely obtuse? It's a homepoint warp ffs...it's not rocket science.
#78 Jun 30 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
SE has already said they aren't looking to revolutionize the MMO genre. Not everything in the game has to be new. With all of the truly interesting things the development team could be focusing their time on, why should any significant amount of thought be given to a relatively minor detail like a homepoint warp? Development budgets, staff, and schedules aren't unlimited. I'd rather see them invest as much time as possible into character development, zone development, combat mechanics and refined, robust content than waste time ******* around with a "new" way to handle a simple function.


I agree, bring back the Warp Cudgel. Make it useable at level 1 though. Everyone is happy.
#79 Jun 30 2009 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:


Will you quit being so argumentative and purposely obtuse? It's a homepoint warp ffs...it's not rocket science.


All I said is there are a number of other alternatives to having a Hearthstone. If you are of the opinion that a hearthstone is the ONLY solution and that it's 'not rocket science' that we have one in every game, then why are you even posting? Your point has been made clear over, and over, and over, and over again: Hearthstone good, No hearthstone bad.

I get it. I said many times I see the benefit of it. I just have the opinion that there are other solutions out there that don't always resort to copying another MMO. It doesn't make me obtuse.
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#80 Jun 30 2009 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Shazaamemt wrote:
Quote:


Will you quit being so argumentative and purposely obtuse? It's a homepoint warp ffs...it's not rocket science.


All I said is there are a number of other alternatives to having a Hearthstone. If you are of the opinion that a hearthstone is the ONLY solution and that it's 'not rocket science' that we have one in every game, then why are you even posting? Your point has been made clear over, and over, and over, and over again: Hearthstone good, No hearthstone bad.


If the goal is to get from where you are to your homepoint, why would it require any level of complexity? Simple is good. An item or ability that does the trick. Boom. Done. Next. If you want more complicated/new/diverse, that's fine. You don't need to take issue with the simple (and already present) options in such an obtuse way. Take issue with it if you have to, just try not to be so thick about it, ya?
#81 Jul 01 2009 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Hearthstone good, no hearthstone bad.

Gotcha. Guess I must be really 'thick' to merit you repeating the same mantra over and over again.

Let me guess... your next post will be 'Stop being an idiot, hearthstone is good.'
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#82 Jul 01 2009 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Continuing with the theme of simplicity,

Shazaamemt wrote:
Hearthstone good, no hearthstone bad.

Gotcha. Guess I must be really 'thick' to merit you repeating the same mantra over and over again.

Let me guess... your next post will be 'Stop being an idiot, hearthstone is good.'


FTFY
#83 Jul 01 2009 at 12:10 AM Rating: Default
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So do I get a prize for calling it?

Or just another post saying that anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot?
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#84 Jul 01 2009 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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Shazaamemt wrote:
So do I get a prize for calling it?

Or just another post saying that anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot?


You're free to disagree with me...or anyone else...all you want. I'm just suggesting that there are better ways to go about it.
#85 Jul 01 2009 at 12:36 AM Rating: Default
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Anyone have any interesting alternatives to a Hearthstone that don't involve calling someone else an idiot?


Edited, Jul 1st 2009 4:58am by Shazaamemt
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#86 Jul 01 2009 at 2:04 AM Rating: Default
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Couldn't you have it so you could only teleport back to your original hometown? That way it would be less excruciating for new characters, yet still keep the sense of scale and exploration for characters who start to travel further afield.

Although thinking about it, excessive travel is annoying, it's one of the main criticisms FFXI suffered from. There have been times in FFXI where I have literally hit autorun and opened a book to read while my character runs across a huge open expanse trying to get from one place to another. It didn't immerse me in the game world or give me a sense of scale, it gave me a sense of boredom.
I think the best way to offset it is to make travel easier, but at the same time increase the content in all the areas, that way the player has the incentive to explore a large piece of map for a good reason, without all the pointless running about.
Basically, I'd rather be battling fiends or getting into a story. You can keep your arduous treks across wide featureless expanses or 'sense of scale', I'd like those hours of my life back, please :P
#87 Jul 01 2009 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I think a great solution to the problem is this:

Hopefully FFXIV implements a WARP ROCK. part of starting out in the game with your noob armor and weapon, you will have a warp rock in your bag. Every 1 hr you can cast it to send you to your home point or home city.

Something that is very important in all MMOs is an ability to escape something or getting out of a dangerous area.

No one (unless you're japanese and lived in japan and played the beta) had any idea of where they were going. The idea of a free warp to all will allow for people to explore and be a little more reckless.

It boils down to a quality of life question. Things come up either IRL or in game and you need instant travel home.

The fact people bring up scrolls and cludges shows this necessity. It's pretty obvious that it should be available to all for no cost, and introduced as part of the introduction of the game.
#88 Jul 01 2009 at 4:49 AM Rating: Decent
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The interviews mind you did say they had looked at WoW and the other games, so they are writing notes down on them. So I say its pretty valid for anyone to post about any of the aspects of WoW they would like to see in this game. No doubt that they won't just plain copy any of these ideas but if they see that some users like one of these aspects im sure they would work to put in something similar.

Theres alot of closed minded people in this forum. Its a NEW game, and its not FFXI-2 either. So keep an open mind...And the whole thing someone said about why not make a post for a "Gnome class to be in WoW" theres no reason for that. Theres a reason why people are talking about the Hearthstone, theres not a reason to talk about the Gnome class. We already have Tarus.
#89 Jul 01 2009 at 4:54 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
think a great solution to the problem is this:

Hopefully FFXIV implements a WARP ROCK. part of starting out in the game with your noob armor and weapon, you will have a warp rock in your bag. Every 1 hr you can cast it to send you to your home point or home city.


..........

a warp rock is just a hearthstone with a different name
how is that a "great" solution?

a great solution would be scrolls of instant warp to *enter town name here* which can be bought at npcs
or warp rocks sold at npcs for 100gil
or warp rocks which drop off beastmen mobs and are semi rare
or warp rocks which are aviable from treasure chests temp or not.

that last thought give me a good idea.

y not just increase the frequence of treasure chests appearing and have them give u anything from potions to warp scrolls
#90 Jul 01 2009 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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I really can't believe that people are even still arguing about this, and making some rather silly arguments at that.

Does XI feel smaller because we have Warp Cudgels? I know people who keep three of them at a time so that a warp is always available. It never made the world feel smaller just because I could warp back to my home point after a party.

And that is ALL that this thread is talking about. We aren't talking about an item to take you to the dunes and back, we aren't talking about OP warps or combining the concept into a super multiple item to transport you to the middle of every zone in the game every twenty minutes, we are talking about an item that is already in FFXI in many forms already. Rather than have 14 different items that essentially do the exact same thing, the thread suggested one item, that everyone gets, and doesn't have to wait until they have earned enough CP.



Leyego wrote:

last time i checked 750 CP wasn't hard to get. soloing from lvl 1-10 nets u around 1k conquest points.
an hour of killing mobs in the dunes nets u another 1k conquest points. trading in crystals at the guard nets u some more conquest points. doing supply runs nets u more conquest points. taking part in besieged nets u IS points, taking part in campaign battles (stand in a corner casting cure on others) nets u allied tags, **** even finding the "suspicious object" gives u allied notes. don't give me that whole "im a noob" and don't no how to collect enough CP for a warp scroll. theres tons of ways to get them, some easier then others, and some require more work. as long as u have ur sigil/signet/allied tags on u get points. its one of the first things they teach you when u enter FF11.


Congratulations, you have leveled to 20 between soloing and the dunes. You now can purchase two warp scrolls, that is, if you didn't want to use those points to purchase any armor pieces that might have more long term use. Better make those scrolls last!

I doubt very highly that a level 15 player is going to be participating in any besieged much less going to the past and doing campaign, and since when does Allied Notes have anything at all to do with purchasing Warp Scrolls? I think you need to check your facts and be a little more realistic.

What's interesting is how the posts have been rated in here. I think that this thread would have had a much better overall tone if this post


PopeyesOpenEye wrote:

I agree, bring back the Warp Cudgel. Make it useable at level 1 though. Everyone is happy.


had been the OP instead of a post mentioning the word "Hearthstone". It's obvious that it was the name that was inflammatory, not the overall concept.
#91 Jul 01 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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You know, on a slightly different note, I kinda hope they still have some kind of outpost warp on the go, that was quite a good point of the game for getting about quicker, and you still have to explore to get to the outposts anyway.

Anyway hold on.. a hearthstone-esque device isn't gonna kill anyone or really ***** the game up in terms of scale is it? I mean you're warping from somewhere you've travelled to, back to somewhere you've travelled from.. If you're just trying to get from A to B there's very little on that return journey you're not going to have already seen on the way there already!

Anyway I give up, suffice to say the whole travel system, along with most of the interface, needs a major overhaul and that's that :P
#92 Jul 01 2009 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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I would rather have the Outposts in every zone and they have the ability to either A. Transfer you to your Home Nation or B. Transfer you to your home point. I think that would be great myself. Takes what, 5 minutes if you are in the zone to run to the outpost?

No cool down, just cost 100-300gil depending on your region and you can transfer to and from it if you are at the right NPC and have done the quest for it.
#93 Jul 01 2009 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir wrote:
If the goal is to get from where you are to your homepoint, why would it require any level of complexity? Simple is good. An item or ability that does the trick. Boom. Done. Next.

There already a very simple, available at level 1 ability to warp to your home point which doesnt require any money, CP or completion of excessive quest.
What it require is just a little chunk of exp, which is not really a problem at low level.

Unlike WoW, WAR and similar games (where you respawn relatively close to the place of your death), in FFXI you can actually death warp to you home point at any time you wish without even need to wait 1 hour on recharge timer for hearthstone.
#94 Jul 01 2009 at 10:59 AM Rating: Good
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I just want to mention something. If you use items such as warp scrolls, chocobo's, outpost ports, etc etc. to get to things faster, does this make the game easy? If they made it so everything was readily available to everyone, made it so a new player had an option to moving quickly across the land, or at least not walking at a slow pace everywhere he wants to be at. It doesn't make the game easier. The game can still be difficult to the max, but time sinks in just traveling isn't a good idea. Now safety while traveling I can see as an issue. Being able to travel anywhere you want safely on a chocobo at the start of the game is too easy. Making said chocobo available to attack to aggressive monsters makes more sense to me, if said low level person tried to enter an area where he is definately outmatch. He should be punished.. unless he can figure out a way to stay out of sight of course.

Now to reiterate, time sinks aren't difficult, just annoying. The effort in some time sinks however are difficult. Now combine effort in a relative term and say only have a time sink in something that is worth said effort. Traveling not one of them, unless it really is far as **** and suppose to be difficult.
#95 Jul 01 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Going by what we've read from the interviews; With the growth system, everyone can at least learn warp 1. *crosses finger*
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#96 Jul 01 2009 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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zeroskillkyrios wrote:
I just want to mention something. If you use items such as warp scrolls, chocobo's, outpost ports, etc etc. to get to things faster, does this make the game easy? If they made it so everything was readily available to everyone, made it so a new player had an option to moving quickly across the land, or at least not walking at a slow pace everywhere he wants to be at. It doesn't make the game easier.

It breaks game's learning curve and allow player easily access places that it is intended that player not to visit until much higher levels.
In WoW it managed mostly by agro - you cannot enter area much higher level without beeing killed, and by speed of travel by lesser extent - mount are still not available at level 1, and fast/flying mounts require money.
In FFXI same matter managed mostly by speed of travel - you have very restrictive area where you can travel at each level based on available tools. Most of area you are intended to travel are within 30-40 mins - that is normal (by FFXI scale). The higher you are, the more advanced travel tools available - chocobo, outpost warps, airships, teleports, warp, rings - those are speed up travel between areas.

Edited, Jul 1st 2009 4:49pm by Phess
#97 Jul 01 2009 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:

What's interesting is how the posts have been rated in here. I think that this thread would have had a much better overall tone if this post


PopeyesOpenEye wrote:

I agree, bring back the Warp Cudgel. Make it useable at level 1 though. Everyone is happy.


had been the OP instead of a post mentioning the word "Hearthstone". It's obvious that it was the name that was inflammatory, not the overall concept.


I'm not sure what you mean by the ratings, people from both sides of the argument are all getting rated down, I suppose that is interesting though.

Anyway I feel the need to point out that you may have read my post wrong. What I mean by a 'Warp Cudgel' is just a crafted consumable with a set amount of warp charges imbued into it. It doesn't have to be called a "Warp Cudgel" ... **** it could be called a 'Hearthstone' for all I care as long as it's crafted only and a consumable. Actually I'd rather it not be called a 'Warp Cudgel' since that would imply it's a weapon and needs to be equiped to use, which was always an annoyance to me. How about a Warp Tablet.

If they were to make it at level 1 as I suggested they could even get rid of the Scroll of Instant Warp concept since CP is apparently so hard to come by anyway.

Actually they could have more than one version, something like;

Warp Parchment
Level 1
10 charges
Recast 1 hour

Warp Tablet
Level 36
30 charges
Recast 1 hour

Hearthstone
Level <cap>
50 charges
Recast 1 hour

Obviously since they say there's no levels in XIV they'd have to come up with some other requirement, but you get the idea.

I just see no reason to take such a fast moving item away from crafters. One of XI's greatest achievements was it's completely player-driven economy, and it was the abundance of trivial yet in demand items like Warp Cudgels that made it possible. The small pieces make up the whole etc.

It's not like Warp Cudgels are expensive. Right now they're about 9k (across all servers). After it's empty it can be sold back to an NPC for 2k, which means it's actually only 7k. With 30 charges that puts each warp at 233 gil. If that's a lot to anyone then they have more things to worry about than how to get home. Now, you can say that the price fluctuates so the fact that it's 9k now doesn't mean anything, but the truth is that consumables always scale well with the general economy, so no matter how much it costs at any given time, it's always relatively cheap.

Story time!

When I first started playing XI I spent most of my first couple weeks in Windurst Cooking and Fishing. From reading forums and such it seemed like getting started early on creating an income would've been a good idea. I did leave town occasionally to level and farm and do quests and I did the first couple Windy missions, but I never ventured too far from town. By level 10 the furthest I'd traveled was Tahrongi Canyon, and I didn't even go far into there, I'd barely been beyond the Mountain path at the entrance.

One day while level 10 I was in Windurst at the cooking guild making something or other when a stranger approached me and asked if I'd been to the Dunes yet. My response was; 'What's the Dunes?' so he said; 'Follow me.' Not having explored much on my own I was curious, so I went along.

We chatted along the the way. First he took me to the Craig of Mea crystal and told me to touch it, so I did and he told me that I could now teleport there whenever I wanted... not that I knew what that meant but 'ok' I thought. Then we zoned into Buburima Peninsula, I agroed a goblin in Bubu and this guy died trying to save me (sorry buddy ^^). Anyway we continued our trip into Mhaura (yay my first city other than Windy!) and onto the Ferry. He told me to stay below deck but I was curious so I went up. Luckily there was no Krakens or Pirates on board! Finally we docked in Selbina (yet another town!), but no time to explore my tour guide had already given me enough time so we passed on through.

Little did I know at this point we were in the Dunes! But my tour wasn't over yet. We passed right through and into La'thein Plateau where he told me to touch the Craig of Holla crystal. We then ran back to the Dune and south to Konchstat Highlands where I touched the Craig of Holla crystal. After all that we ran into the Dunes again, he sat me down at the Conquest flag by the zone to Konchstat and told me to put up my flag and that he'd be leaving. I was a bit disappointed as I thought he'd be joining me, but he did give me a gift of some gil before parting ways, so I got over it.

Well after what felt like a very long time sitting there without being invited (level 10 THF, no sub...) I decided I would go back to cooking and try again later. But wait a second! how do I get back?! Pssh easy, the last zone we came from was this one right next to me, Konschtat something, so it must be that way. Zone in; yeah this looks familiar, so I keep running to North Gustaburg.... North Gustaburg?! I've never seen this place before! uh-oh... back to the Dunes. Hmmm, well we went north before that, what's there? Something Plateau? I'll try that. Zone in; no I'm sure I came from Konschtat Highlands. North Gustaburg? Maybe I just wasn't paying attention the first time through, so I'll keep walking (this is definitely the wrong way...). South gustaburg?! What?! Grrrrr.

At this point I was completely lost, feeling utterly frustrated and worried that I'd never find my way back. All I wanted to do was get back home and continue what I was doing when I started this trip, but I had no idea how to do that. I sat at the zone from North Gusta to South Gusta for a minute to think. Then suddenly a ray of hope appeared, a fellow adventurer on a chocobo! I'd seen these birds before and knew that they move faster than I can type, so I had to be fast if I was gonna get his attention. I typed "Help!". The rider stopped and asked what was wrong. So I asked him; "How do I get back to Windurst?" He laughed and told me I was a long way away from there, to this I said I know, and that was the problem. So he responded; <North Gusta>-> <Konschtat Highlands>-> <Valkurm Dunes>-> <Selbina>-> Ferry to <Mhaura>-> <Buburima Peninsula>-> <Tahrongi Canyon>-> <West Sarubatura>-> <Windurst Woods>. I thanked him and he rode off and with this information I was able to easily find my way back.

The point of all that (besides that smoking pot kills your sense of direction :P) is this. If I would have had a 'home sick' button would I have used it? Of course, I'd have been a fool not to have. It would have made things much more convenient, much easier, I could've gotten right back to leveling cooking without wasting an hour running in circles. But the experience would've been much different, much less memorable. Four years later I couldn't get lost if I tried, I have every OP and carry 3 forms of Warp (yes I'm serious about the Tavnazian Ring) and I can get to and from almost any zone in the game in 5 minutes. So yeah that hour is still gone, but at least I can remember what I was doing during it.

Of course everyone wants convenience, but the sad fact is that sometimes what people want isn't always what's best. Sometimes being screwed isn't as bad as it seems in the moment, easy buttons just water down the overall experience. So no it's not the mentioning of 'Hearthstone' in the OP that I disagree with, it's that fact that no matter how wet behind the ears someone is they'd always be one button press away from their comfort zone.
#98 Jul 01 2009 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Well, as a new player I have no idea about any of this stuff, right? Air ships? 45 minute boat rides? Rank 5? Conquest? No idea. Being a new player means I've never played before. I don't know about this stuff. What I do know is that at level 15 travel sucks. I don't think suggesting more convenient travel options for the new game (not this one) is stupid. What I do think is pretty foolish is your assertion that because travel is always time consuming in the game at all levels it should remain time consuming in the new game and that there shouldn't be any universal options to mitigate this.


As a new player, you open up your mouth, this is an mmo with thousands of people around. You see a chocobo, you ask "Hey, how or when can I get a chocobo" and you will be given information by most people. You see a warp scroll, you ask "Hey, what are the ways I can get a warp scroll", its as simple as that. Your not suppose to know much about a new game when you first start, but opening up your mouth would provide many answers for you. Its the same as asking where do you go after level 10, or after level 20, you ask and people that have been playing will tell you the options. As you progress through the game more options is suppose to come available to you, thats the point of progressing. I mean before you can run you have to learn how to walk first, and even before walking you learn how to crawl.
#99 Jul 01 2009 at 12:55 PM Rating: Good
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Phess wrote:

It breaks game's learning curve and allow player easily access places that it is intended that player not to visit until much higher levels.
In WoW it managed mostly by agro - you cannot enter area much higher level without beeing killed, and by speed of travel by lesser extent - mount are still not available at level 1, and fast/flying mounts require money.
In FFXI same matter managed mostly by speed of travel - you have very restrictive area where you can travel at each level based on available tools. Most of area you are intended to travel are within 30-40 mins - that is normal (by FFXI scale). The higher you are, the more advanced travel tools available - chocobo, outpost warps, airships, teleports, warp, rings - those are speed up travel between areas.


I don't see how at least a simple warp to your home point available on a reasonable cool down is going to ruin the learning curve.

And Popeye, I was referring to that post of your being scored Excellent while the OP is just barely above a Default. If he had opened with Warp Cudgel, Level 1, All Jobs, 2HR cooldown, the thread might have gone much differently. That post showed clearly that people were more opposed to the word "Hearthstone" than they were to the same concept, when it was called "Warp Cudgel". It's an interesting dynamic.

I didn't misunderstand your post, and I agreed with it. Well, until that really long one that I rated up before I finished reading it. I don't know if I agree that your experience was a better overall use of time, although it could be when you have nothing better to do with your time. A lot of the folks who are hoping for more casual content don't have the time to spend several hours running through zones just to get back to Point A before shutting off for the night. It may have been a good experience for you in hindsight, but there's a lot of folks who quit XI altogether because of things like that, and we all know it.

Edited, Jul 1st 2009 5:01pm by Torrence
#100 Jul 01 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Default
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456 posts
The word heartstone or warp cudgel, has nothing to do with anything. The difference is not the words it is, 1 item is lvl1 (or people want it to be) with a 20min cooldown (going by the OP), and warp cud had a level requirement (36), and a 24 hour cooldown time. The word names has nothing to do with the opinion, the concept and the 2 items are different even tho they do the samething. This is why their are different opinions vs warp cudgel and heartstone, its because they are not the samething, even tho they do the samething. Warp cudgel is also consumable and drives the economy, and heartstone does not. It doesn't matter if heartstone is from WoW and warp cudgel is from FFXI, its the concept behind the items, which is different.
#101 Jul 01 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Default
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2,084 posts
Quote:

And Popeye, I was referring to that post of your being scored Excellent while the OP is just barely above a Default. If he had opened with Warp Cudgel, Level 1, All Jobs, 2HR cooldown, the thread might have gone much differently. That post showed clearly that people were more opposed to the word "Hearthstone" than they were to the same concept, when it was called "Warp Cudgel". It's an interesting dynamic.


It's not so much interesting as it is just glaringly obvious that the majority of people don't want a WoW clone, (which, with the vocabulary that the OP chose to use, made it appear that he was in favor of such) as similar as the individual concepts themselves themselves may be.

That being said, 'Hearthstone' suggests a warp item with a very low 30 minute cooldown, which is something many people obviously disagree with, and likely the cause of most of the actual conflict in this thread. I agree, if he'd suggested the Warp Cudgel with a 2 hour cooldown, there'd probably be little to no flaming at all. Although common sense would dictate that you should probably use direct comparisons to FFXI concepts rather than similar mechanics in other MMOs in a forum where many may not even know what a Hearthstone is or how it functions.

And ratedowns are pretty nutty. People are just rating down people who disagree with them. I got rated down for offering helpful advice to that newbie. Good times.

Edited, Jul 1st 2009 2:37pm by Kirbster
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